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(Arizona Star)   HOA to homeowners: Give us $8.5 million for a new rec center. Judge to HOA: Swallow it. HOA trifecta complete   (azstarnet.com) divider line 389
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19073 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2007 at 1:44 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-09-13 02:29:14 PM
SpeedRacerX: Don't fark with _my_ home value and we will get a long just fine. :-)

You have no right to a fixed home value, whereas your neighbors have plenty of property rights.
 
2007-09-13 02:29:24 PM
andrew131: I wouldn't worry, SpeedRacerX has got one of those nifty sub-prime loans! We're paying for his house!

Hey, he has a right to risk-free investments. That's the American way :)
 
2007-09-13 02:29:28 PM
SchlingFo: When your house is worth $1M, and the sub-prime "flipper" has his identical $1M house next to you foreclosed on, which the bank then sells for $700k, your house value has now dropped by a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

If the "good" neighbor were smart, he'd take advantage of the deal and buy a $1M home for 30% less.
 
2007-09-13 02:29:32 PM
So, if I live in a community that has an HOA and I vote on something but I vote against it. Say for instance, voting against an assessment to build a community center. Should I have to pay for it? I voted against it, I don't want it, why should I pay? Would that hold up in court?
 
2007-09-13 02:30:12 PM
I'll mow my own goddam lawn, thank you.

/homeowner
/not condo owner
/no Mrs. Busybody HOA for me
 
2007-09-13 02:30:13 PM
The CC&R in my neighbourhood clearly stated;

- No fences can be erected closer than 2 feet from the roadway
- No Japanese, Hindu, Negro, Philipinos, Chinamen, Indian (etc) maybe be allowed to stay at the residence unless under the employ of the homeowner as a gardener or chauffuer.
- Some other crap.

As a Chinaman, I signed a piece of paper stating that I read the CC&R but not that I'd abide by them. Since My wife and I take turns driving, and I mow the lawn, I guess I qualify as a gardener and chauffeur?

The badly written CC&R was weird in that it discriminated against races (Japanese, Negro, Chinamen, Philipinos) but also religions (Hindus) and by "Indian" I think they meant Native Americans.

Since the CC&R was written in 1939, I can chalk it up to "olde tymey bigotry" by why is it still on the records? I was GOING to have it changed, but then that would require work. And I have no idea where the CC&R is "officially kept" but whoever eventually buys my house will not have to sign it, if I have any say in it. Many of my neighbours would "violate" the CC&R by race, so I kind of like that fact that we are giving the screw-you to the original home owners who drafted it.
 
2007-09-13 02:31:13 PM
SpeedRacerX: birdistasty: Prof_Moriarity: We all kind of turn a blind eye to the 80 year old lady who keeps putting the damn ceramic frogs and rabbits in her flowerbeds.

Does that really seriously bother you? It's her property - why should you care how she decorates it?


Property values.

If you don't get that then you probably don't have that. You won't get it until you do.

Ever try to sell a home before? Every try to do it next to a neighbor that doesn't weed his beds, mow and weed his lawn, keep his house painted, properly landscape it, keep the junk out of the yard, keep the RV out of the street, etc etc etc?

Don't fark with _my_ home value and we will get a long just fine. :-)


Here in Amerika comrade, you are only as free as your neighbor allows you to be!

Do you understand what you are saying? You want to exert power over another individual to make them be what you want them to be, even though their actions are in no way harming you. You can either have property rights or none at all, take your pick.
 
2007-09-13 02:32:38 PM
SpeedRacerX:

Don't fark with _my_ home value and we will get a long just fine. :-)

I bet that you are experienced at cleaning eggs off of your investment.
 
2007-09-13 02:32:54 PM
boobsrgood: If HOA's are such a bed idea, how do you suggest handling the idiot who turns his house into a craphole that knocks $50k off the asking price for ten of his neighbors?

Seriously, how?


You need to realize that most Farkers:

Live with their parents
Are in college
Rent

Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about. "Hey man, what do you care what someone does with their own property??" I care when it makes my house unsellable b/c nobody wants to live next to the guy with the 2 foot tall grass. HOA's sometimes overstep their boundaries, like in this case but generally they are useful.
 
2007-09-13 02:33:17 PM
stiletto_the_wise: The only people who should be worried about property values are speculators and people who are leveraged 100%+. For normal people, who buy their homes and live in them, a home is not an investment. They understand that the RE market is cyclical, and they're going to get what they get when they sell.

Property values can help determine what type of neighbors you have and the quality of the schools, etc. So just thinking about how much your place is going to worth in 20 years isn't the only concern.
 
2007-09-13 02:33:24 PM
From the same thing I posted in the last HOA and what I will post in every HOA thread from here on out:


I don't want shiatty Mcfarkup living next to me not mowing his lawn and generally making the neighborhood look like crap.

-Thank you HOA

I like having a pool a block away from house.

-Thank you HOA

I like having a gym a block away from house.

-Thank you HOA

I like having "green" areas that are maintained scattered throughout the neighborhood for dogs to run in.

-Thank you HOA

I like having my streets cleared of snow before any of the "side" streets maintained by the city are cleared.

-Thank you HOA

I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

-Thank you HOA
 
2007-09-13 02:33:51 PM
by "Indian" I think they meant Native Americans.

"Casino, not Call Center", is how mine reads. Wierd.
 
2007-09-13 02:34:08 PM
MadAsshatter: Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about. "Hey man, what do you care what someone does with their own property??" I care when it makes my house unsellable b/c nobody wants to live next to the guy with the 2 foot tall grass. HOA's sometimes overstep their boundaries, like in this case but generally they are useful.

No, they're strict violations of property rights. Remember the whole "pursuit of life, liberty, and property?"
 
2007-09-13 02:34:24 PM
andrew131: If the "good" neighbor were smart, he'd take advantage of the deal and buy a $1M home for 30% less.

True, but it still knocks the value of his home down. That's, as I understand it, one of the biggest factors in home appraisal: the selling price of the homes around you.
 
2007-09-13 02:34:54 PM
LocalCynic: Seriously, stop with the HOA hate.

No.
 
2007-09-13 02:35:04 PM
MadAsshatter: boobsrgood: If HOA's are such a bed idea, how do you suggest handling the idiot who turns his house into a craphole that knocks $50k off the asking price for ten of his neighbors?

Seriously, how?

You need to realize that most Farkers:

Live with their parents
Are in college
Rent

Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about. "Hey man, what do you care what someone does with their own property??" I care when it makes my house unsellable b/c nobody wants to live next to the guy with the 2 foot tall grass. HOA's sometimes overstep their boundaries, like in this case but generally they are useful.


Well Said
 
2007-09-13 02:35:06 PM
threetoehoek: From the same thing I posted in the last HOA and what I will post in every HOA thread from here on out:

Awesome, you're anti-Freedom or property rights. You should move to communist China, you'll fit right in!
 
2007-09-13 02:35:31 PM
BuckTurgidson: LocalCynic: Seriously, stop with the HOA hate.

No.


Be careful, he will send you a fine from the FARK HOA.
 
2007-09-13 02:35:34 PM
tuna fingers: C'mon Farkers. When I hear "luxury community centers", I think


You guys think "replace gutters".

/meh


You forget, this is in a primarily senior community. Your image would probably look more like this.


images.jupiterimages.com
 
2007-09-13 02:36:15 PM
MadAsshatter: Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about.

They ARE fascists. And they should be fought tooth and nail when they insist on ridiculous things like the topic of this thread.

We're not talking about people who won't cut their grass, which, I'm sure you're aware is eventually a Health Dept. violation outside of any HOA.
 
2007-09-13 02:36:19 PM
SchlingFo: True, but it still knocks the value of his home down. That's, as I understand it, one of the biggest factors in home appraisal: the selling price of the homes around you.

I usually attribute that to people putting all their eggs in one basket hoping for their ship to come in to port. Using a home as an investment vehicle is beyond stupid.
 
2007-09-13 02:36:30 PM
SchlingFo: The same purpose is served, and you're spared some typing.

Point taken. I thought it was relevant to the less popular position of why these things are of value to anyone.

Please replace with "a lot"
 
2007-09-13 02:36:33 PM
MadAsshatter: Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about. "Hey man, what do you care what someone does with their own property??" I care when it makes my house unsellable b/c nobody wants to live next to the guy with the 2 foot tall grass. HOA's sometimes overstep their boundaries, like in this case but generally they are useful.

I grew up in a very nice neighborhood, with generally cool neighbors, and it's stayed a nice neighborhood in the 20 years it's been since I lived there.

There was no HOA.

Your dichotomy of "HOA" or "shiathole of a neighborhood" is exceedingly false.
 
2007-09-13 02:37:11 PM
threetoehoek: Thank you HOA

For giving you the privilege of being such an asshole.

Yes, I can crosspost, too...:)
 
2007-09-13 02:37:23 PM
No, they're strict violations of property rights.

That people freely enter into. All self-government is self-restraint.

Since the CC&R was written in 1939, I can chalk it up to "olde tymey bigotry" by why is it still on the records?

Because covenants run with the land. Are you some kind of history revisionist? are you afraid you're BOUND by them because they're written on paper?
 
2007-09-13 02:37:33 PM
Advice for First time home buyers. Never Ever EVER buy into a place that has a HOA.

First you begin to realize what kind of idiots your neighbors really are.

Second you realize that the majority of YOUR financial well being are in the hands of your idiot neighbors.

Third, you pretty much have no rights in a HOA.

Finally, the only people who really want to run a HOA are petty, self centered arrogant fools.

Don't do it folks
 
2007-09-13 02:37:45 PM
SpeedRacerX: I spent over $1M and my HOA is critical to ensure the rest of the neighborhood is built in a similar (but wide) price range and in a way that doesn't decimate the value of my home. e.g. You can't just buy one of these wooded lots and park a double-wide on it.

You couldn't do that anyway...it's called ZONING.

Most HOA-haters don't have investment-level properties.

OMFG. You are so getting eaten alive. You do know that your "investment-level property" is dropping in value faster than you can type. The HOA can't save you there.
 
2007-09-13 02:37:52 PM
CapitolG:
So you make the point that you are lazy? And apt to bend to the will of others?

/part of the joy about being a actual home owner, is you GET to do that sutff.
//why not rent then?


You, sir, are a douchebag.

While you're mowing your lawn this weekend, I'll be on my boat. Actually, I'll be on it this afternoon as well. It's not being lazy, shiathead. I have better ways to spend my time.

And the renting comment. You're an idiot, too.
 
2007-09-13 02:37:59 PM
I have to wonder how the property value around Mrs. Federline-Spears' is faring, these days.

Cutest little mistakes you ever saw... Except Kevin. He is just sleazy.
 
2007-09-13 02:38:05 PM
Therefore, they don't care/don't understand. HOA's are just another "fascist" thing to whine about. "Hey man, what do you care what someone does with their own property??" I care when it makes my house unsellable b/c nobody wants to live next to the guy with the 2 foot tall grass. HOA's sometimes overstep their boundaries, like in this case but generally they are useful.

That's a gamble I can't make. The HOA might be great, especially at first. Like mine. Then it changes, and you are stuck.

All you HOA endorsers, just you wait until you get a board that you don't like.
 
2007-09-13 02:38:15 PM
Your image would probably look more like this.

Would I hit it?

Depends!
 
2007-09-13 02:38:30 PM
SpeedRacerX: Don't fark with _my_ home value and we will get a long just fine. :-)

You mean to tell me some little farking ceramic shiat in her flower garden is going to drive your home values down? You, sir, are full of shiat.

You just think they're ugly, and as such, you don't want to look at them - am I right? Fark you, and your damn Nazi views. It's my property, I can do with it as I please. You don't like it? Get over yourself.

And join Moriarty in the line for blowjobs and/or hobbies.
 
2007-09-13 02:38:31 PM
andrew131: threetoehoek: From the same thing I posted in the last HOA and what I will post in every HOA thread from here on out:

Awesome, you're anti-Freedom or property rights. You should move to communist China, you'll fit right in!


Oh good one you little freedom loving American!! And you're exactly right! Everything I said means I'm anti-freedom!! Only if I could learn to be as politically correct and "freedom loving" as you. Now please see the last thing in my post:

I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

-Thank you HOA
 
2007-09-13 02:38:41 PM
threetoehoek: I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

And we like the idea that you idiots like HOA's and can be counted on to concentrate yourselves in your petty squabbling covetous busybody enclaves.
 
2007-09-13 02:38:53 PM
danlpoon: That people freely enter into. All self-government is self-restraint.

So freedom for some, but not all. You're not a plantation owner, are you?
 
2007-09-13 02:39:19 PM
"Most HOA-haters don't have investment-level properties"

Translation: I bought more house than I could reasonably afford and am now in debt up to my eyeballs and thoroughly miserable because of it so you peasants should look up to me.

/'investment level property' = more like a $1M mcMansion 20 feet away from another $1M mcMansion.
 
2007-09-13 02:40:04 PM
You know who also hated property rights?


/So what if this thread if full of godwin
 
2007-09-13 02:40:19 PM
Some of you stating that the HOA's tactics and that keeping "double wides" out of the neighborhood really need to learn what a comparable sale is and how that is used to derive property values.

Additionally, if some wahoo buys a house at listing price and then paints the house fucia, the value of that property is constant for 12 mos from the Act of Sale. Your house will be worth more if you can get a superior rating if the lay of the house is similar to yours.

/the more you know
 
2007-09-13 02:40:20 PM
threetoehoek: I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

-Thank you HOA


Funny, some of the shiattiest neighborhoods I've seen all have those HOA signs posted everywhere.

Tell me, what happens when your neighborhood goes to shiat and you get thugs or mafia type people running your HOA? Bet you didn't think your cunning plan all the way through.
 
2007-09-13 02:40:34 PM
threetoehoek: I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

Actually, we don't like the type of people who support HOAs.

We wouldn't move next door to you even if there wasn't a HOA.
 
2007-09-13 02:40:54 PM
SpeedRacerX: I spent over $1M


Is your other login FlyNavy?
 
2007-09-13 02:41:11 PM
You don't want people farking with your property value?? Then don't build near people. Stop trying to make everyone do what you want them to do just for financial gain, you greedy motherfarker. Besides, your house is nowhere near worth what you think it is.
 
2007-09-13 02:41:18 PM
Nuuu: Office Ninja: As much as I despise what the HOA was trying to pull, and I'm glad the judge overruled them, I disagree with the judge's logic.

In constitutional matters, often enough rules will be interpreted as close to the framer's intent, or practical effect as possible (the theory varies).

In most HOA cases, the courts recognize that that HOA contract put the individual at a contractual disadvantage compared to the HOA, who often have many more resources. Judges will therefore interpret HOA bylaws strictly against the HOA, or at least strictly according to the wording of the document.

The understanding is, the HOA has the lawyers and the money and the time to know EXACTLY what it wants to say in a contract and how to say it. Because of that they have no excuse if the contract says otherwise. Here the contract said "a majority of unit owners" not a majority of voters. Strict interpretation says that the judge here was right.


That's a good explanation and helps me understand the judges authority in his ruling. Thanks.
 
2007-09-13 02:41:42 PM
With such a small vote margin, how can they morally pursue such a quest in spite of all the opposition???

How can you proceed when you're bilking about half of your members???

Don't they know that when people are pushed over the edge, scammed, ganked, they tend to retaliate??


Surely somebody has a yacht that needs sinking, cars that need bashing, large house windows that need smashing.. Or a molotov cocktail could do some justice to some especially determined board members lovely house.

And then there's people like my half-uncle who have no qualms over paying 30k to have somebody sniped in their kitchen. It's just junk change to get rid of the morally corrupt in the eyes of a millionaire..

You don't fark with the rich, they have connections. Assassins, corrupt cops, corrupt DA's, they're friends with these people, favors are exchanged.. I've seen it all myself and would not advise pissing off 594 of them..
 
2007-09-13 02:42:16 PM
BuckTurgidson: threetoehoek: I like the idea that most of you idiots don't like HOA's so you won't move in next to me!

And we like the idea that you idiots like HOA's and can be counted on to concentrate yourselves in your petty squabbling covetous busybody enclaves.


Have you ever lived in a HOA community (and no living with your parents in one dosent count). I'm guessing the answer is no.. Have you ever owned your own house (again, your parents owning one dosent count.. sorry)? I'm guessing no again.. busy-body enclaves? well it has a nice ring to it but really ..lol .. most HOA's are nothing like that. But you sure did feel cool when you typed that out, huh?
 
2007-09-13 02:42:25 PM
Kellner21: You don't want people farking with your property value?? Then don't build near people. Stop trying to make everyone do what you want them to do just for financial gain, you greedy motherfarker. Besides, your house is nowhere near worth what you think it is.

Whats great right now, property values are plummeting on HOA neighborhoods because soo many of them are for sale right now. They are all basically the same, totally interchangeable.
 
2007-09-13 02:42:35 PM
johne3819: boobsrgoodIf HOA's are such a bed idea, how do you suggest handling the idiot who turns his house into a craphole that knocks $50k off the asking price for ten of his neighbors?

Seriously, how?

Step 1: Re-evaluate the situation to verify that said neighbor has actually knocked 50K off your 'value' and it wasn't just a correction to overpricing, etc.

Step 2: Talk to said homeowner in a polite manner outlining your concerns. Try and frame it so there is some incentive for them to change

Step 3: If step 1 turns out true, then most likely there is some city ordinance/health code/etc violation that can be handled by the law.

Step 4: If all else fails, grab your neighbors and pitchforks and torches and surround the house.


QFT, now get the heck out of here with your sensible logic. This is Fark where irrationality rules supreme!
 
2007-09-13 02:42:42 PM
SpeedRacerX: I spent over $1M

Correction, a bank/mortgage company spent over $1M on your home.
 
2007-09-13 02:43:53 PM
threetoehoek: most HOA's are nothing like that.

But, all HOAs have the potential to be like that.

Which makes the people who like the idea of subjecting themselves to an HOA on par with someone who knowing moves to a country with a benevolent dictatorship.
 
2007-09-13 02:44:04 PM
andrew131: Furthermore, the market fairly good at Darwinism. What multi-millionaire do you know that is going to spend $1M on a home and turn it into a dump?

We have 3 or 4 situations in our neighborhood. One was a morgage scam where they borrowed against the property while not making a single payment on it (and also gutted the house). The rest were builders going under who wanted to skip on the last 25% of the house and do limited or no landscaping.

The HOA prevented the latter and helped pay to clean up the exterior of the former.
 
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