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4666 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2001 at 8:04 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-07-24 07:06:26 PM
Radeon, you've never asked Rei to argue before, have you? you can only hope she's done reading this thread for today.
 
2001-07-24 07:11:07 PM
Dude: Rei and I have a love hate relationship. We have argued in the past. Unfortuntaly, she usually wins :(
Heh.
 
2001-07-24 07:33:40 PM
Radeon: Just a thought, but homosexuality is still illegal here in kansas. Know why?

Sodomy is defined legally as extra-vaginal intercourse. (Oral, anal) Sodomy, in Kansas, is only legal between married couples. Ready for the kicker?

Kansas does not recognize same sex marriages. Any act between to consenting homosexual adults is considered criminal sodomy. And every now and then, they will get charged with it here. But let's at least recognize the marriages. I have seen gay-lesbian relationships with more love in them than most hetero couples. This idea that you can live your life with someone, share moments and happiness and a home, and not have the rights of a spouse to make decisions on emergency medical care, or decisions on the estate of your loved one? Thats just wrong.
 
Rei
2001-07-24 08:05:13 PM
Radeon:

(long post warning) (flashback warning)

Rei:According to you "A lot of people are indifferent to gay rights" I have nothing against gay people, nothing at all. But the whole gay rights issue just pisses me off. Should someone that has sex with their own, be allowed special rights? Why does sexual preference need an umbrella of protection? The laws we have on the books take care of any discrimination problems. We don't need new laws, we need
enforcement of the existing laws. If you disagree, I would like to know why.


*twitch*...

-------------------------
07-19-01 05:17:52 PM
Rei

Phoxxy:
Um, this is wrong. I think being gay is wrong, personally, but I think telling schools to openly teach that "gay is ok." is wrong.

First off, that should have been "and" instead of "but".

This is just another door to be opened for gay preferential treatment. I don't think anyone should be
discriminated against, but I don't get special treatment because I happen to have sex with someone of the
opposite sex. I don't think anyone should get special treatment for what they do in bed.


Um, special treatment? This pamphlet had 3 major points.

1. Let them know they're not hated. That you see them as a person.
2. Protect them from violence.
3. Don't try to shove them off into a "transformational ministry".

Um, I fail to see how this is "special treatment". This is trying to stop a group with an abnormally high
suicide rate due to the hatred of them, be protected from violence and help their self esteem.

I hate this "gays get special treatment" nonsense. What special treatment???? The right not to be able to
adopt children, the right to get regularly fired from jobs just because of who you're attracted to, the
right to get beaten up and lashed to a fence to die????? These aren't rare events - over half of the GLBT
community has been threatened with physical violence in their lives, and about 14% have been beaten up
for being gay/lesbian/bi/transgendered. We have laws that expressly forbid us from many legislated
privilges straight couples get - the right to file joint taxes, the right to make medical decisions for
your partner, the right to estate... family members claiming the rights to a gay person's estate after
their death, despite a written statement willing it to their partner, and winning... transsexuals having
their marriages annulled because of their past, like the littleton case (where a ts woman, married to her
husband for over a decade, when he died to to blatant malpractice, was denied the right to file suit
against the doctor, after having their marriage annuled on the grounds that it was "same sex"). You know
how often people get fired for being gay???? its sickening. And in most places, there is no recourse. Its
really sad.

"special rights". That's utter nonsense.

-= rei =-

07-19-01 05:20:28 PM
Rei

Phoxxy:
btw, I apologise for the harsh tone.

I've just seem that term, "special treatment" used to justifiy such atrocious legislation against us...
and used to let people get off, in court, with just horrible things... it just hurts.

-= rei =-

07-19-01 05:25:44 PM
Kandl1

REI

Have I told you that i love you???

Everytime I hear "special rights" I just know that we are dealing with someone who is just regurgitating
what they are told. I (hetro male) have special rights. I can marry who I love, legally. (no, I'm not
asking to marry you...!)

07-19-01 06:17:35 PM
Mme.Mersault

"I've just seem that term, 'special treatment' used to justifiy such atrocious legislation against us...
and used to let people get off, in court, with just horrible things... it just hurts. "

Rei, that's no exaggeration. Our legislature seems to have done more than the rest by removing their
craniums from their rectums on this matter. It isn't perfect, but they're on the right track.

I have yet to see a gay man or woman get preferential treatment. Anywhere.
-------------------------

*twitch*... *twitch*...

sorry, you set off regurgitation keywords there.

Listen, you have the right to marry who you want, to sleep with who you want, you don't get beaten up for being who you are, attacked, fired, you have hundreds of legal rights with your partner that we can't have, from healthcare to taxes, you have the right to raise a child... ... there is *NO* gay agenda, there are *NO* gay special rights.... .

i'm sorry.
I'll stop now.

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-24 08:38:21 PM
Rei you're so offbase it's not even funny. Okay, let's look at some of the plentiful reasons to be gay. This also addresses the issue of homosexuality- choice or genetics. As anyone will see, the benefits of being gay make it obvious that it's a choice. So here's the list:

Advantages:
Get to wear your spouse's clothes (if heteros do that, they're considered gay, and they usually don't fit right)
You get a cool action figure, Ken doll.
You instantly know more about interior decorating.
You can sleep with Tom Cruise (c'mon, even hetero men would like to be gay for that alone).
You get to be that 'gay friend' who your straight friends all talk about to prove they aren't bigots.

Disadvantages:
You like Barbara Streisand.
You can't say you're gay without grossing out most people.
People talk about you behind your back with rather unfriendly nicknames.
People talk to you in front of you with rather unfriendly nicknames.
People talk to you in front with rather violent and slanderous things to say.
Increase your chances to be a victim of a hate crime.
Increase your chances to committ suicide.
Can't get married.
Can't say you're gay in the army even if 90% of people who go to the army are gay anyway.
Christians and almost every other world religion hates you with a passion, at first this is an advantage. But when they start sending you literature and attacking you, it can be grating.
People associate you with YMCA and Richard Simmons.
People use your sexuality as a pop culture reference for all that is vile and evil.
Your parents probably hate you (list that as an advantage if you're like that).
Straight people are a dime a dozen, but gays are a little harder to find. And it can be difficult to pick out that perfect fellow gay for you.


Now, I think with all those advantages to being gay, it's a wonder we're not all gay. I urge you all to become gay, and reap the benefits of gayness. Write your congressmen as well, and tell them you want them to be gay too!
 
2001-07-24 09:08:39 PM
Rei: every gripe that you had is covered by current legislation, or is idiotic to pass a law for. Shall we count them down.
1. Let them know they're not hated. That you see them as a person.
Please Rei, do I have the right to have legilation passed on my behalf to make people accept me? People hate me becuase I am southern, short, and have a bad attitude. Should congress pass a law protecting me? I think not.

2.Protect them from violence.
Rei, we are ALL protected from violence. There is not a loop-hole in the law that allows gays to be beaten.

3.Don't try to shove them off into a "transformational ministry".
To be honest I am not sure what you are talking about. But in this country, gay or straight we have EQUAL rights, other than marriage (that is a seperate debatable thing).

And to "special treatment". It is not a party line. I dont have Republican Congressmen over to the house to shove ideas into my head. What alot of gays ask for IS SPEACIAL TREATMENT.
Example. There are laws to protect us from being beaten. This is a law for ALL people. Now, some gays want legislation stateing that it is a crime to beat gay people. What? Are gays not human? Do gays not fall under the legislation that is on the books? If that is not speacial treatment than what is?
 
2001-07-24 09:33:38 PM
Rei: every gripe that you had is covered by current legislation, or is idiotic to pass a law for.

Pfft, yeah Rei, I mean like it's so idiotic for people to actually want to get married and adopt kids. Like gosh, who the hell'd want to do that anyway. Surely straight people don't get to do that. Oh, they do? But that's not preferential treatment, that's natural treatment. Cause Gawd loves them.

And sheesh, when has there ever been a law that says you can fire or harass you just because you were something. I mean, trying to get that for gays is idiotic. They've never done anything like that for women or blacks.

Who they should be really passing laws for are people who are southern. I mean, it's not like they have a whole region of the country they come from to hide in. It's not like they have a sitting president who's southern and has a bad attitude. And surely, no politician could ever get elected because he's short. We ought to protect them, afterall, being southern is a truly repressed minority. I mean, that's almost as bad as being white.
 
2001-07-24 09:50:08 PM
Attention Span Alert!... geez if y'all have to post pages and pages my eyes glaze over and I skip to the next post. When discussing constitution issues try to do it in less words than the original document.

Made my point and mov'n on...
 
2001-07-24 10:06:51 PM
Folks have the right to love whom the hell ever they please. Who someone is sleeping with is none of anyone's business but their own. (except for topics of juicy gossip in a positive way) I say that there's too much hate in the world as it is, and it's a damned shame that narrowminded losers have to promote more of it.
 
2001-07-24 10:48:59 PM
Radeon...YOU can legally marry the person you fall in love with. Gay people cannot. Seems that you're the one with the special right.
 
2001-07-24 11:48:33 PM
I wish there were laws making it illegal to be southern, short, and have a bad attitude.
 
2001-07-25 01:08:42 AM
Hey Radeon.. you a complete ass-hole. If you don't know shiat about something maybe you should stick to playing with yourself.

Hows that adonis tan coming along prick.
 
2001-07-25 01:26:49 AM
Its these morons like Phelps that give faith a bad name.Homosexuals are different than the rest of society,but its not to say that they aren't an important part of it.All societies throughout history have looked to them too shape our cultures and customs.Artists,Painters,Sculpturists writers,Dancers are by far in the majority Gay or Bi.Just food for thought
 
2001-07-25 01:43:16 AM
Its these morons like Phelps that give faith a bad name.

No, thousands of years of history have done that for him.
 
2001-07-25 01:44:54 AM
Lets enforce legislation to keep Nerds from being picked on because they are Nerds, its not a choice, its not their fault, so we need more laws.

Everyone gets picked on/ Beat up/ killed for lots of different things. I don't believe there is such a thing as a non-hate crime(when it involves hurting someone and the like). Why have special punishments for why someone decides to hate someone? I am going to sound off coming out completely wrong, I really am not a jerk.

But a crime should be punished for the crime, it shouldn't matter why they did the crime.
 
2001-07-25 01:46:21 AM
Newbaca,
"No, thousands of years of history have done that for him."

Wasn't that what he was saying?
 
2001-07-25 01:48:37 AM
Because I don't think history itself has given faith a bad name, I think its the people that take their own meaning and make it their personnel cause to do what they think is right in the name of someone else, even though it has nothing to do with that person.
 
Rei
2001-07-25 11:39:07 AM
Radeon:

Did you not notice the date? The fact that people were talking about a different subject? I was recapping a previous discussion on "Special rights". Those "3 things" were not about laws, those were suggestions to school administrators on how to deal with a gay student. You weren't paying attention.

To be honest I am not sure what you are talking about.

Apparently.

Did you completely miss over:
"I hate this "gays get special treatment" nonsense. What special treatment???? The right not to be able to adopt children, the right to get regularly fired from jobs just because of who you're attracted to, the right to get beaten up and lashed to a fence to die????? These aren't rare events - over half of the GLBT community has been threatened with physical violence in their lives, and about 14% have been beaten up for being gay/lesbian/bi/transgendered. We have laws that expressly forbid us from many legislated privilges straight couples get - the right to file joint taxes, the right to make medical decisions for your partner, the right to estate... family members claiming the rights to a gay person's estate after their death, despite a written statement willing it to their partner, and winning... transsexuals having their marriages annulled because of their past, like the littleton case (where a ts woman, married to her husband for over a decade, when he died to to blatant malpractice, was denied the right to file suit against the doctor, after having their marriage annuled on the grounds that it was "same sex"). You know how often people get fired for being gay???? its sickening. And in most places, there is no recourse. .... Listen, you have the right to marry who you want, to sleep with who you want, you don't get beaten up for being who you are, attacked, fired, you have hundreds of legal rights with your partner that we can't have, from healthcare to taxes, you have the right to raise a child... ... there is *NO* gay agenda, there are *NO* gay special rights.... . "

? Did you read that?

And, it appears the only issue you're concerned about is Hate Crimes legislation. That's just a minor thing to us, we're more concerned about basic rights - right to adopt, right to equal taxation and benefits, right to not just be able to not be fired for being GLBT (eg, you can't get fired for being white, or for being male - as it currently stands, they either have to have a real reason like job performance, or they can fire someone because they're gay - both valid reasons, in court).

Hate crimes legislation is a minor issue. It is, however, one I believe in. If 14% of Christians were being beaten up because they were Christian, and half of them were being threatened with violence, *of course* they'd be trying to do something. There would be a *serious problem* in the country if people were doing that, a serious problem that needs addressing. Why is it wrong to have slightly worse penalties for stereotyped, bigotry-based crime? If bigotry-based crime is acceptable, then hitler's regime's only domestic problem was a high crime rate. But we know that's not the case, they went out and bred-in a hatred of minorities for no reason. And that's somehow unthinkably worse to us than just a random, high violence rate. And, yet, people oppose having worse penalties for crime that is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be motivated by unjustified hate of a particular group. I really don't get it. (Assuming you're white). You know, this would apply to you too - if you were in a heavily black area, and were beaten up by a group of black people whose hate white people unconditionally and love to make them suffer, without justification, that sort of mentality would deserve a worse punishment than someone who just killed you because a robbery went wrong. Etc. That is what hate crimes legislation is about.

But, this is a minor issue, compared to everything else.
Right now, we're still fighting for basic rights - the right to adopt, the right to be treated equitably for taxes and benefits, the right to not have "because you're gay/lesbian/bi/transgendered" be a legal excuse for firing, or being denied housing, or being railroaded in a trial, etc.

On that latter issue, I don't even know where to start... some trials have been so appalling... ugh... I remember when a transsexual was murdered... the evidence against the defendant was completely overwhelming (it was witnessed, fingerprints, etc). Incredibly brutal death. The judge convicted him of "assault" (i.e., acknowledging that he was guilty, but not that he was worthy of real punishment). I've seen so many cases like that... ugh...!!... I better stop now.

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-25 12:57:30 PM
You go Rei! In a People's History of The United States, Howard Zinn makes a great point. 1% of the population own most of the wealth, control the government, control the societal structures, etc. The other 99% are constantly fighting each other, thus diffusing any power against the elite 1%. If we could all just stick together and learn to accept each others differences, maybe we could take back this country and end corporate subsidies, tax breaks for the rich, the imbalanced justice system, etc. Think about it.
 
2001-07-26 01:08:22 AM
Scramble--you're right, God DOES love everyone. He may not like everything we do, but he loves all of us.

These ministers that go around condemning people really had better watch it. At the risk of sounding fanatical, Satan loves people like this guy. He uses people like those fanatical Baptists to scare people away from Christianity.

They should keep in mind--God loves homosexuals, but He does not like homosexualITY. There's a huge difference.

'Sides, we should teach by example, not by getting in people's faces. Oy vey.
 
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