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(Richmond Times Dispatch)   Virginia prepares to commemorate War of Northern Aggression's 150th anniversary   (timesdispatch.com) divider line 460
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12126 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2007 at 3:09 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-09-09 05:45:02 PM  
ComicBookGuy: "Nine of the ten states that get the most federal farking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That's right, motherfarker, they're red states."

AND

"And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? It's too easy, asshole, they're blue states."

Can you look up reports if either of those were true as of the time of the writing?

/enjoys being a cat toying w/a mouse before the kill


I've completely lost track of what point you're toying towards. Are you suggesting that the bombastic OP is a dumbass for trusting the conservative Tax Foundation's numbers, or the opposite?

Too many dumbasses in the thread, but I'm a try'n to keep 'em straight.
 
2007-09-09 05:45:42 PM  
enki40:Southern values are "Freedom for me and mine".

They are? Is that listed somewhere? If so, I've been doing it wrong.
 
2007-09-09 05:46:41 PM  
the_cnidarian

"Wow, just wow. Can't argue with that superior logic."

/sarcasm
//time for football party, I'm out



The first thing you've said that makes sense. When you have no response, watch football. I'm sure it helps.
 
2007-09-09 05:46:49 PM  
The American "Civil war" was not a civil war be the definition of a civil war. A Civil war is 2 or more parties fighting for control of the same government. It was a revolutionary war, the south wanted to be its own country with its own govt., it didn't want to take over the north.

Actually history may have been better if the south had won, not because of anything it would do directly, but when WWI rolled around the Germans would have PWN3D Brits and Frogs with out the medeling americans. Russia called it quits and it was all Brits and French could do to hold off the Germans with the Russians splitting the German army into 2 fronts. If Germany won WWI there would not have been WWII as we know it and Adolf Hitler would have never been in charge of Germany, the Kaiser would still be the farking king.
 
2007-09-09 05:49:28 PM  
mmm...pancake

Yes--they are--have you seen the South standing up for gay rights ---womens rights-----civil rights? No? Gee what a surprise---maybe my post was accurate.

Southern values---Freedom for me and mine---and fark everybody else.
 
2007-09-09 05:53:22 PM  
enki40: Yes--they are--have you seen the South standing up for gay rights ---womens rights-----civil rights? No? Gee what a surprise---maybe my post was accurate.

Southern values---Freedom for me and mine---and fark everybody else.


My problem is that you are rolling all Southerners under one label. You'd sound more legit if you said "Many Southerners..." or "Some Southerners...". To just say "Southerners..." is as patently dishonest as saying "Black folks..."
 
2007-09-09 05:54:10 PM  
'mmm... pancake: ComicBookGuy: "Nine of the ten states that get the most federal farking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That's right, motherfarker, they're red states."

AND

"And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? It's too easy, asshole, they're blue states."

Can you look up reports if either of those were true as of the time of the writing?

It's not my job to prove the assertions incorrect, it's up to the author to prove his assertions correct by providing a legitimate source.

You suck at debate. Not only can you not make an argument on your own, but you think that posting someone else's masturbatory rant full of bigotry, prejudice and ignorance qualifies you as a legitimate debater. Stop while you're ahead. You're out of your league here.'

ROFL!

Time to go!! Real life calls. Feel free to declare yourself the winner. The sky is also green, too!!!

(Man, I'm going to have gigglefits all day over this!!)
 
2007-09-09 05:54:16 PM  
r-u-n-n o-f-t: Any moderately educated person, of which many on this thread are obviously not, would know that "jeffersonian" has long been an accepted term for a political philosophy.

I wonder what the Jeffersonian view on The Iraq War is?

At what point does it become absurd? At what point is the word "Jeffersonian" just a term? At what point is it no longer valid?

I am sure there are prescient points in your article, but it's a serious stretch.
 
2007-09-09 05:55:12 PM  
For some reason, FARK removed my html privileges.
 
2007-09-09 05:56:36 PM  
MyNameIsMofuga

that pic needs a caption, like "Who wants a mustache ride?"
 
2007-09-09 05:58:53 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: I wonder what the Jeffersonian view on The Iraq War is?

Jefferson was an isolationist. As such, the Jeffersonian view would be that the Iraq war was unnecessary and unjust.
 
2007-09-09 05:59:17 PM  
mmm...pancake

The election map shows it to be all southerners. Time after time after time.
 
2007-09-09 06:01:06 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER

I wonder what the Jeffersonian view on The Iraq War is?

Why don't you google the term "Jeffersonian", educate yourself a little bit, and answer that question yourself.

I did my homework in school, I'm not going to do yours.
 
2007-09-09 06:03:46 PM  
enki40: The election map shows it to be all southerners. Time after time after time.

All voters who oppose gay rights are Southerners (which, btw, is most definitely false) so all Southerners are voters who oppose gay rights?

If I'm in Athens, I must be in Georgia.
I'm in Georgia, so I must be in Athens.

It's a logical fallacy.
 
2007-09-09 06:06:07 PM  
Angela Montenegro works at the Jeffersonian.
/mmmm, Michaela Conlin
 
2007-09-09 06:06:07 PM  
I'm a Canadian, and as I understand it as taught by the Canadian educational system, the American Civil War was not about 'the right to keep slaves' but rather states rights.

The right of the citizens of states to pass laws to govern themselves of which slavery was one of the laws.

Instead, you ended up with a federal government that now has a lot more power than it used to over states. The federal government seems to control just about everything, and when people here complain about the government it's always about the federal government.

Examples of how the federal government of the USA can pass laws to override the power of states, there are a number of states that have passed medical marijuana initiatives but the feds do not care they will arrest regardless. Another example is the REAL ID act that is trying to be rammed through in the name of 'homeland security'. Some states have said no to passing it. Which means it is possible it may come to a point that as feds control air travel, only certain Americans can travel outside their state plane and presumably eventually train and car also.

And you call the antebellum southeners 'traitors'.

Why? Because they kept slaves? So did the entire british empire at one point, before it made the decision to stop doing so. Who's to say they would not also have made this decision on their own, as a state.
 
2007-09-09 06:07:30 PM  
the_cnidarian: This sentence describes alot of (if not most)people, not just southerners. If you pigeonhole all of the South by the actions of some you are doing the same thing that you say you are against *Southerners* doing.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't throw a blanket over "all Southerners". Just the Southerners who make excuses for the Civil War, rewrite history and claim it was about anything OTHER than slavery.

There are a few Southerners on Fark (and that I've met in real life) who I think are awesome people. But the Confederate flag-waving, Civil War apologists need to go.
 
2007-09-09 06:08:02 PM  
Oldiron_79: that pic needs a caption, like "Who wants a mustache ride?"

i119.photobucket.com
 
2007-09-09 06:08:19 PM  
mmm... pancake: ComicBookGuy: Oh? It's factually inaccurate?

There were no facts. It was the typical incessant rambling of a modern day liberal who uses wit and anger in place of any real facts or logic.


OK, re-reading the thread it was mmm... pancake who appears to be in the "OMG Libs!!11!!" branch of the Republican party, as opposed to the intelligently informed on current taxation policy conservative branch (more like a twig at this point). The taxation statistics in the originally posted rant were indeed "facts" that have been checked and found accurate by the conservative Tax Foundation, unless you want to go pencil dick and argue that the facts are from 2004 and the rant is from 2005.
 
2007-09-09 06:09:49 PM  
It's a logical fantasy


So? Anyone who thinks all southerners or northerners always think alike does not exist on this planet. To say all southerners in this context is absolutely correct. The map shows that to be true. To say there aren't liberals living in southern states or conservatives living in northern states is stupid---almost as stupid as drawing attention to that simple fact.
 
2007-09-09 06:11:39 PM  
i168.photobucket.com
 
2007-09-09 06:12:33 PM  
mmm... pancake: Jefferson was an isolationist. As such, the Jeffersonian view would be that the Iraq war was unnecessary and unjust.



r-u-n-n o-f-t: Why don't you google the term "Jeffersonian", educate yourself a little bit, and answer that question yourself.

I did my homework in school, I'm not going to do yours.


Having read his letters and spent the first 2 years of College as a History major, I am quite educated, thank you very much.

Fine, I'll just say it: The implication from the link is that Jefferson would support the South in the Civil War. It's a stupid and useless hypothetical point. I was arguing against it.
 
2007-09-09 06:16:20 PM  
Surpheon: OK, re-reading the thread it was mmm... pancake who appears to be in the "OMG Libs!!11!!" branch of the Republican party, as opposed to the intelligently informed on current taxation policy conservative branch (more like a twig at this point). The taxation statistics in the originally posted rant were indeed "facts" that have been checked and found accurate by the conservative Tax Foundation, unless you want to go pencil dick and argue that the facts are from 2004 and the rant is from 2005.

Clearly you didn't read any of my posts. In that ridiculous rant, he never provided any evidence to back up his rants. Some other poster suggested that it was up to me to prove him wrong. That's not how it works. If he wanted to make a point, he should have provided the supporting evidence. And if you had been on here for more than about 3 minutes, you'd most definitely know that I'm no Republican.
 
TSE
2007-09-09 06:18:14 PM  
all of this "we won" and "We kicked your ass" bullsh*T is a nice way to gloss over the fact that a bunch of AMERICANS wound up killing each other because the frickin' politicians couldn't figure out a way to make things happen without havig to have a bunch of AMERICANS killing each other.

Get over your 3rd grade "WE WON!" crap.
 
2007-09-09 06:18:24 PM  
Bugler: the American Civil War was not about 'the right to keep slaves' but rather states rights.

Oh good, a contestant!
Number of times the following phrases/words appear in these declarations of secession:

states rights: 0
rights of the States: 2
slave: 82

Ohhh...sorry, house wins with 'slave'.
 
2007-09-09 06:22:11 PM  
FlyingPig: FlashHarry: wow, the concordance between those two graphics is eerie indeed.

Only because of the majorities and gerrymandering involved in the political process. If you looked at it by county the majority of those states get a lot more purple.
 
2007-09-09 06:22:29 PM  
TSE: all of this "we won" and "We kicked your ass" bullsh*T is a nice way to gloss over the fact that a bunch of AMERICANS wound up killing each other because the frickin' politicians couldn't figure out a way to make things happen without havig to have a bunch of AMERICANS killing each other.

Get over your 3rd grade "WE WON!" crap.


The Confederates were Americans?

Funny, I thought the whole point of their rebellion was that they didn't WANT TO BE Americans any longer.
 
2007-09-09 06:28:30 PM  
Northerners didn't kick the southerners arses, the endless stream of Irish conscripts strait off the boats kicked the south's arse.
 
2007-09-09 06:28:57 PM  
FlyingPig: Funny, I thought the whole point of their rebellion was that they didn't WANT TO BE Americans any longer.

Perhaps you can help clear up the whole matter:

If they were Americans:
Then turning the armed forces on the people is a high crime punishable by death for Lincoln (Sherman's march)

If they were not Americans:
The armed forces of the North invaded a foreign country for no reason which, according to Farkers, is also a high crime.

So, which one is it gonna be?
 
2007-09-09 06:29:22 PM  
ZAZ: I want to change history so the Confederacy won to force Harry Turtledove to find something else to write novels about.

Ya mean, something like... ALIENS?
 
2007-09-09 06:31:30 PM  
"All those Federal taxes you love to hate? It all comes from us and goes to you"
Someones never heard of Fairfax County


I likve in Fairfax County, and we vote blue. NoVa has very little in common with the land beyond the Rappahannock. Your point is invalid.
 
2007-09-09 06:36:49 PM  
enki40: Lincoln was not a conservative, he was a liberal.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."
Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln was out to preserve the union, not free slaves. Lincoln was not a liberal, he was a conservative. You fail.
 
2007-09-09 06:37:11 PM  
mmm... pancake: Perhaps you can help clear up the whole matter:

If they were Americans:
Then turning the armed forces on the people is a high crime punishable by death for Lincoln (Sherman's march)

If they were not Americans:
The armed forces of the North invaded a foreign country for no reason which, according to Farkers, is also a high crime.

So, which one is it gonna be?


Um, no. The Confederates committed treason against their government by seceding. The Constitution says treason is punishable by death. You lose again.
 
2007-09-09 06:39:28 PM  
mmm... pancake: Surpheon: OK, re-reading the thread it was mmm... pancake who appears to be in the "OMG Libs!!11!!" branch of the Republican party, as opposed to the intelligently informed on current taxation policy conservative branch (more like a twig at this point). The taxation statistics in the originally posted rant were indeed "facts" that have been checked and found accurate by the conservative Tax Foundation, unless you want to go pencil dick and argue that the facts are from 2004 and the rant is from 2005.

Clearly you didn't read any of my posts. In that ridiculous rant, he never provided any evidence to back up his rants. Some other poster suggested that it was up to me to prove him wrong. That's not how it works. If he wanted to make a point, he should have provided the supporting evidence.


The original webpage (if the fark filter lets the farkthesouth.com URL survive) does provide links to support the facts. You stated: "There were no facts. It was the typical incessant rambling of a modern day liberal who uses wit and anger in place of any real facts or logic." That reply was itself laughably false, and now you are playing the role of debate form nazi? The rant was full of facts, right or wrong (and most of them are common knowledge to be accurate). My 3rd grade nieces could identify what a "fact" is for you if you need it. Heh, ballsy or drunk it still makes you look like a douche.

Anyone who tosses around 'liberal' as a blanket insult falls into the Republican tent at the moment. You're annoyed that he didn't provide carefully researched and linked evidence? I have been here a bit longer than you, but I learned long ago that It's not news...
 
2007-09-09 06:41:14 PM  
Do you know what the South has a lot of?

RIMS.
 
2007-09-09 06:41:36 PM  
This thread intrigues General Grant:

www.cogulus.com
 
2007-09-09 06:42:36 PM  
mmm... pancake: Jefferson was an isolationist. As such, the Jeffersonian view would be that the Iraq war was unnecessary and unjust.

No one knows what the fark Jefferson would have thought of globalisation, highly destructive terrorism, nuclear bombs, and the like.

There's no such thing as a Jeffersonian view on the Civil War. We don't have the slightest idea how he would have dealt with it.
 
2007-09-09 06:52:30 PM  
FlyingPig

If the confederates where treasonsers for leaving the Union and refusing to obey the federal govt, wouldn't that mean the hippies that resisted the draft and/or fled to Canada during Vietnam where also treasoners?

I see you beleive in following the overlords as long as they can come up with a catchy tagline like its for the nubians.
 
2007-09-09 06:55:15 PM  
The only winners this time around will be the lawyers when all the sorry ass lawsuits get filed against racist this or racist that somehow emotionally damaging darling little Jimmy.

We can't even hold a parade these days with Balloon floats that doesn't cause some group to go Biat shiat nutz...this will revive everything from slave reparations to rebel flag bannings. You just know the entire board of this will be filled with Va. trial lawyers. To bad cause I love history, battlefields and reencatments, fortunately all will continue to be available once the "anniversy" and "racial panic" passes.
 
2007-09-09 06:55:27 PM  
Daneel Olivaw

Your post shows that Lincoln was for the preservation of the United States, and the Constitution. The United States and the Constitution are founded on liberal thinking. Fighting to defend those freedoms makes Lincoln a liberal no matter what his thoughts were. Actions speak louder than words. The current regime is a case in point. They do not support the Constitution(just a godamn piece of paper) or American values, yet they are constantly waving the flag. They are not like Lincoln at all.
 
2007-09-09 06:55:36 PM  
Oldiron_79: If the confederates where treasonsers for leaving the Union and refusing to obey the federal govt, wouldn't that mean the hippies that resisted the draft and/or fled to Canada during Vietnam where also treasoners?

A draft is never just. Again, it depends on what the reason for rebellion is.

A draft is wrong, and so is slavery.
 
2007-09-09 06:59:01 PM  
ceejayoz: No one knows what the fark Jefferson would have thought of globalisation, highly destructive terrorism, nuclear bombs, and the like.

The Jeffersonian philosophy is based on Jefferson's philosophical ideas much like Marxism is based on Marx's flawed philosophies.
 
2007-09-09 06:59:50 PM  
I loved the incident with one Confederate private who had been captured. He was obviously poor, couldn't have owned slaves let alone a plantation, and could have known very little about politics. He was asked "Why are you fighting us?"
He looked at his captors as if they were crazy and replied "Because y'all are down here!"
Best. Answer. Ever.
Read folks like Sam Watkins before you start jumping to "treason" or "Slavery" as motivation for fighting. Things tended to be a tad more complex.
 
2007-09-09 07:00:48 PM  
Geez, we are still fighting over Virginia. How long do you think we will be in Iraq?
 
2007-09-09 07:04:11 PM  
Union dead: 140k
Confederate dead: 73k

Wow. If that's an ass-kicking, I'd hate to see what a loss looks like.

Damn revolt of the Democrats. And they tell us they're not unpatriotic? History says otherwise.
 
2007-09-09 07:04:28 PM  
cynicalbastard: I loved the incident with one Confederate private who had been captured. He was obviously poor, couldn't have owned slaves let alone a plantation, and could have known very little about politics. He was asked "Why are you fighting us?"
He looked at his captors as if they were crazy and replied "Because y'all are down here!"
Best. Answer. Ever.
Read folks like Sam Watkins before you start jumping to "treason" or "Slavery" as motivation for fighting. Things tended to be a tad more complex.


If I wanted to know the real reasons for fighting a war, I would never ask a soldier on the ground. Soldiers are easily brainwashed into fighting a war to serve the governments which manipulate them.

How many soldiers fighting in Iraq now are Bush-supporting Republicans who think Saddam was behind 9/11?
 
2007-09-09 07:06:53 PM  
You know what I love? Southerners who won't stop obsessing about the civil war and their precious family heritage... yet the same people absolutely deny any validity to the very concept of cultural memory when it comes to black people talking about slavery.
 
2007-09-09 07:07:17 PM  
enki40: The current regime is a case in point. They do not support the Constitution(just a godamn piece of paper) or American values, yet they are constantly waving the flag. They are not like Lincoln at all.

This is hilarious considering the fact that Lincoln's war is directly responsible for our current state of politics in the United States. It was the war that cemented the centralization of Government at the Federal level. Bush owes his power to the sucsess of Lincoln's war.
 
2007-09-09 07:07:47 PM  
cynicalbastard: I loved the incident with one Confederate private who had been captured. He was obviously poor, couldn't have owned slaves let alone a plantation, and could have known very little about politics. He was asked "Why are you fighting us?"
He looked at his captors as if they were crazy and replied "Because y'all are down here!"
Best. Answer. Ever.
Read folks like Sam Watkins before you start jumping to "treason" or "Slavery" as motivation for fighting. Things tended to be a tad more complex.


If an invading army where at the gates of my town, I'd pretty much be ready to fight them even if I didn't care much about the politics that started the war.
 
2007-09-09 07:08:15 PM  
vygramul: Union dead: 140k
Confederate dead: 73k

Wow. If that's an ass-kicking, I'd hate to see what a loss looks like.


The defense has always had the advantage.
 
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