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(Examiner)   Attempted murder parolee charged with murder when victim dies of infection 41 years after original crime   (examiner.com) divider line 152
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20217 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Sep 2007 at 12:20 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-09-04 12:05:34 AM
Funny -- my wife is a law librarian, and I was flipping through a legal dictionary at her office a couple of weeks ago.
In Connecticut, at least, there's a law called the year-and-a-day rule, which stipulates that a criminal who committed a violent crime can't be charged with murder if the victim dies of the inflicted injuries more than a year and a day after the attack.
 
2007-09-04 12:10:09 AM
Or maybe that law isn't currently in force. I see that the UK repealed it in 1996. Anyway, this much I do know: that such a law existed at one time, somewhere or another.
 
2007-09-04 12:22:59 AM
Not the first time this has happened.

//going back to watch Zimmerman eat balls.
 
2007-09-04 12:23:14 AM
There's no way this is going through. Otherwise, wouldn't this set the precedent that a murderer could be charged with both Murder and Attempted Murder? Really, why not? He attempted, and succeeded!
 
2007-09-04 12:23:42 AM
Year + a day rule is the general common law rule.

/drtfa
 
2007-09-04 12:25:49 AM
MOHWowbagger: Funny -- my wife is a law librarian, and I was flipping through a legal dictionary at her office a couple of weeks ago.
In Connecticut, at least, there's a law called the year-and-a-day rule, which stipulates that a criminal who committed a violent crime can't be charged with murder if the victim dies of the inflicted injuries more than a year and a day after the attack.


The same law exists in New Zealand, I would think it would be pretty common throughout the common law world, though I think it needs to be revisited - people could be deliberately infected with HIV, for example, and die years later.
 
2007-09-04 12:25:51 AM
How is it attempted murder if he succeeded?
 
2007-09-04 12:26:19 AM
Man, if I ever die from internal bruising from old indian rubs, my big sister is going away for a LONG time!
 
2007-09-04 12:26:26 AM
Double jeopardy?
 
2007-09-04 12:27:21 AM
Wouldn't this violate the fifth amendment? I'm pretty sure this falls under double jeopardy considering it's the same crime (albeit different charges)
 
2007-09-04 12:27:25 AM
This is BS. Murdering someone over 40 years?

If that's "murder", then why aren't McDonalds execs in prison?
 
2007-09-04 12:28:28 AM
MOHWowbagger

The Owl and the Pussy-cat went to sea
In a beautiful pea green boat,
They took some honey, and plenty of money,
Wrapped up in a five pound note.
The Owl looked up to the stars above,
And sang to a small guitar,
'O lovely Pussy! O Pussy my love,
What a beautiful Pussy you are,
You are,
You are!
What a beautiful Pussy you are!'

Pussy said to the Owl, 'You elegant fowl!
How charmingly sweet you sing!
O let us be married! too long we have tarried:
But what shall we do for a ring?'
They sailed away, for a year and a day,
Until the Owl could no longer be charged for murder after injuring that cop while robbing a jewelery store for an engagement ring.

/free-association ftw...
 
2007-09-04 12:29:57 AM
Oh, it's an officer. So, that's essentially why.

IIRC, I've seen a case where a man died about a year after an injury (though it was an accidental death... a fight, a guy fell backwards and tripped onto the pavement and went into a coma), but he was in the hospital the whole time. Something like that?... I can at least understand how a murder charge could come about in that case (even though the circumstances suggest murder may have been a bit harsh).
But 40 years?
 
2007-09-04 12:31:02 AM
The Bucks County Medical Examiner's Officer ruled the death a homicide, saying it stemmed from the gunshot wound Barclay suffered in 1966.

Barnes, who was paroled in 2005 after serving a 10- to 20-year attempted murder sentence, has been living in a halfway house and working at a supermarket.


So....assuming he served the entire 20 years it only took them 19 years to put him in prison?
 
2007-09-04 12:35:32 AM
This is fake. Besides the 'year and a day' rule, besides the clear cut double jeopardy, you can't live 40 years with the same pneumonia causing bacterial infection.

If the examiner is a real news organization at all, they just got took.
 
2007-09-04 12:35:57 AM
teabag bandit: So....assuming he served the entire 20 years it only took them 19 years to put him in prison?

Yeah, seriously, wtf? Also, since he was paroled, that means he didn't serve the whole sentence (which means it took them even longer to put him away).
 
2007-09-04 12:36:59 AM
It's not double jeopardy because he's not being charged with the same crime. Murder and attempted murder are two different things.

/DRTFA
 
2007-09-04 12:38:25 AM
It's not double jeopardy because he's not being charged with the same crime. Murder and attempted murder are two different things.

But they are mutually exclusive and stemming from the same action. Therefor, it's double jeopardy.
 
2007-09-04 12:40:33 AM
RetlawST: Wouldn't this violate the fifth amendment? I'm pretty sure this falls under double jeopardy considering it's the same crime (albeit different charges)

This isn't double jeopardy -- attempted murder isn't the same as murder. Whatever time he served for the attempted murder should be deducted from his sentence, but it's not the same crime.

We had a patient in my ICU a couple of years ago who was stabbed in the back by her boyfriend. He was arrested for assault and bailed out. She was getting better, but then had a big pulmonary embolism and died a week or so after she was admitted. They had to go back and rearrest the boyfriend for murder. Shorter time-frame, but same concept.

/sorry if I sound like I'm getting a kick out of these replies
 
2007-09-04 12:40:47 AM
some states don't have a statute of limitations on murder.

other states have the year and a day rule...


The biggest thing would be that they would have to prove that had he not suffered the original attack, he would have never had an infection..

40 somethin years though, is harsh.

they'll prolly give him time served or something
 
2007-09-04 12:40:58 AM
img75.imageshack.us



/Not Guilty
 
2007-09-04 12:41:52 AM
Beyond regurgitating what everyone's said about year and a day stuff, what about the fairly (to my knowledge) common law about 'You cannot be tried twice for the same crime'? In this case the crime was shooting the officer, but he was already tried and convicted for attempted murder. If he's going to get convicted for murder, would they not be forced subtract from his new sentence however many years he served for attempted murder?

/Confusing
 
2007-09-04 12:41:58 AM
Here's how I would do it: if the victim of an attempted murder later dies as a result of his injury, the perpetrator serves the sentence for murder minus any time he spent in jail for attempted murder.
 
2007-09-04 12:43:14 AM
Jesus Farking Christ.

Ok, in 1966 the 'convict' shot a police officer during a robbery. He was arrested, tried for attempted murder, and put in prison for 20 years.

Two questions:

1) If he was just parolled in 2005 after a 20 year stint in the can, that puts us back to 1985. So it took them 19 years to catch and convict him.

2) For his crime, he was tried and convicted and sent to prison for 20 years. Trying him again for the same crime (just an upgraded sentence really) should be illegal under this obscure document:


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Oh wait, the Constitution is just toilet paper to the government today. What was I thinking. Hang him by his neck until dead. Heck streamline the entire system by getting rid of the courts. Just send suspects right to jail or to the firing squads.

All suspects are guilty. Period. Otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, would they.

/1984 comes true day by day, little bit by little bit
 
2007-09-04 12:43:40 AM
whaledawg: This is fake. Besides the 'year and a day' rule, besides the clear cut double jeopardy, you can't live 40 years with the same pneumonia causing bacterial infection.

If the examiner is a real news organization at all, they just got took.



It's real. And the infection wasn't caused by the bullet wound directly, it was caused by the paraplegia the man suffered because of it.

Still, there's no way this can hold up in court.
 
2007-09-04 12:44:32 AM
Captain Darling: Here's how I would do it: if the victim of an attempted murder later dies as a result of his injury, the perpetrator serves the sentence for murder minus any time he spent in jail for attempted murder.


What if the sentence is death?
 
2007-09-04 12:45:14 AM
Hmm looks like the year and a day rule was overturned in Pennsylvania in the 1960s.

Fark won't let me link to the article but if you Google "year and a day rule" and Pennsylvania, it's the first result.
 
2007-09-04 12:45:40 AM
Does putting this guy in jail really do anything but make a life worse?

1. It won't teach him a lesson; he's already learned that clearly 41 years after NOT doing it anymore.
2. It won't help "rehabilitate" him anymore
3. It won't make the victim feel any better
4. It won't make the tax payers feel better to pay to keep this guy in jail until he dies
5. It won't deter other people from doing anything "Oh, I was GOING to shoot that cop but I heard that 40 years later I could go back to jail."
 
2007-09-04 12:46:09 AM
whaledawg: you can't live 40 years with the same pneumonia causing bacterial infection.

- erm, no. You can, in fact, have recurrent pneumonias seeding from bacteria (or fungi) colonizing cavitary lesions within the lung.

I'm a doctor, so I really got a kick out of your reply.
 
2007-09-04 12:46:32 AM
whaledawg: This is fake. Besides the 'year and a day' rule, besides the clear cut double jeopardy, you can't live 40 years with the same pneumonia causing bacterial infection.

If the examiner is a real news organization at all, they just got took.


If the Examiner got took, then the Philadelphia Enquirer did too.
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_top/20070903_Murder_charges_in_1966_shootin g_of_police_officer.html
(Sorry for the long URL, but Fark won't let me make this a link!)
 
2007-09-04 12:46:59 AM
Damn. Ryan Leaf thinks that guy had a bad rookie year.
 
2007-09-04 12:47:54 AM
whaledawg: It's not double jeopardy because he's not being charged with the same crime. Murder and attempted murder are two different things.

But they are mutually exclusive and stemming from the same action. Therefor, it's double jeopardy.


That's not entirely true...

you can be charged as many times as they like. They can charge you with a crime, drop the charges, gather more evidence, then refile the same charges later.

Double Jeopardy protects the accused from being tried for the same crime twice.

srtpointman is right... Attempted murder is a separate crime from actual murder. that's the beauty of that little loophole.
 
2007-09-04 12:47:56 AM
MOHWowbagger: RetlawST: Wouldn't this violate the fifth amendment? I'm pretty sure this falls under double jeopardy considering it's the same crime (albeit different charges)

This isn't double jeopardy -- attempted murder isn't the same as murder. Whatever time he served for the attempted murder should be deducted from his sentence, but it's not the same crime.

We had a patient in my ICU a couple of years ago who was stabbed in the back by her boyfriend. He was arrested for assault and bailed out. She was getting better, but then had a big pulmonary embolism and died a week or so after she was admitted. They had to go back and rearrest the boyfriend for murder. Shorter time-frame, but same concept.

/sorry if I sound like I'm getting a kick out of these replies




No, this is completely different. This man was convicted and sentenced. You're talking about a case where the man was arrested, released, and then arrested again to be charged with a more serious offense.
 
2007-09-04 12:48:30 AM
Baron-Harkonnen: Captain Darling: Here's how I would do it: if the victim of an attempted murder later dies as a result of his injury, the perpetrator serves the sentence for murder minus any time he spent in jail for attempted murder.


What if the sentence is death?


Well, Pennsylvania has capital punishment and 226 death row inmates right now. Killing a Cop? That's a hanging.
 
2007-09-04 12:48:43 AM
MOHWowbagger: Shorter time-frame, but same concept.
Actually, no. It isn't the same concept at all. The only correct part about that statement is that there was a shorter time-frame.
 
2007-09-04 12:50:23 AM
Bschott007: nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;

That phrase... I don't think it means what you think it means.
 
2007-09-04 12:53:29 AM
That's why I never buy cars from the classifieds. I knew a guy who bought a car through one a while ago. 3 years later, BAM! Herpes.
 
2007-09-04 12:54:22 AM
tshetter: /Not Guilty


img.photobucket.com
 
2007-09-04 12:55:18 AM
Not a new deal. My grandfather's partner was one of 2 Seattle cops killed in an ambush by Canadian bank robbers(pregnant wife, the whole bit-it's written about in an earlier chapter of this book;
Link (new window) A 3rd cop got shot in the kidneys-he was on dialysis for the next 24 years but died from an infection. He was honored as "killed in the line of duty". The guys who killed them escaped back to B.C., & because The Crown had abolished the death penalty...and the State Of Washington (still!) utilizes hanging they wouldn't turn them over
 
2007-09-04 12:58:05 AM
There was a movie about this that came out recently...

Fracture.. Thats it, great movie..
 
2007-09-04 12:58:09 AM
whaledawg: But they are mutually exclusive and stemming from the same action. Therefor, it's double jeopardy.

No, different charges void double jeopardy. It's like how certain charges are withheld in some cases (especially high-profile ones): just in case the accused is found innocent of one charge, they can try again with another.
 
2007-09-04 01:00:48 AM
img394.imageshack.us



stupid thing broke my link before
worked in the preview before though

and how isnt this double jeopardy? tried twice for the same crime.
if the guy was successful in his first attempt he would have been charged only with murder and not murder and attempted.
so, it might have been better for him to have killed the guy 41yrs ago?

again, not guilty.

Jury Nullification
 
2007-09-04 01:00:57 AM
puffy999: Bschott007: nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;

That phrase... I don't think it means what you think it means.


O'Rly?

So, the guy shot a cop.
The cop didn't die from the shooting.
Guy get's 20 years in jail for attempting to kill the cop.
Guy serves most of his term and is released from prison on parole.
40 years after the shooting, the cop dies (at an age that normal death starts to become fairly common)
The state wants to charge the 'cop-killer' with murder...after he already served time for attempted murder...and killing a cop in Pennsylvania is a Capital Punishment offense. If they want to go after the guy 40 years after the original crime, after he already has served time for the attempt on the cops life, I'd think they also would go-for-broke and try him for a hanging.

So one crime, two trials? The Bill of Rights says STFU.
 
2007-09-04 01:04:20 AM
illicit: ...they can try again with another.

Think the Rodney King beating case. They were tried and found not guilty but then were charged with civil rights violations. Same crime, different charges.
 
2007-09-04 01:05:33 AM
a kiss is just a kiss

a sigh is just a sigh

an infection you die from 41 years later is just an infection

the fundamental things apply....

as time goes by


///i am in the zone tonite
 
2007-09-04 01:07:11 AM
Bschott007: So one crime, two trials? The Bill of Rights says STFU.
No, not one crime. Attempted murder is a crime. Murder is a crime. They are not the same crime. This has been covered, and you're a dumbass for not understanding it.

What will ultimately happen, assuming this case isn't dropped due to the fact that this man isn't a threat and did serve time (NOT because of your shiatty interpretation of our US Constitution) for a similar crime, is that if this man is convicted, his murder sentence will be reduced to include time served for attempted murder.
That's legal. That's what happens in the US. That's the law, and it is right, even IF I disagree with the fact that this man is being charged for something that happened so long ago.
 
2007-09-04 01:07:32 AM
Meatzilla
tshetter: /Not Guilty


[you got fail]


dunno what the fark is up.
image works in the preview
didnt change anything between preview and post

and again it farked it.
no more imageshack
 
2007-09-04 01:08:15 AM
illicit: whaledawg: But they are mutually exclusive and stemming from the same action. Therefor, it's double jeopardy.

No, different charges void double jeopardy. It's like how certain charges are withheld in some cases (especially high-profile ones): just in case the accused is found innocent of one charge, they can try again with another.


One crime + Two trials = Double Jeopardy.

Already tried and convicted. Can't try him again for the same crime (the shooting). The outcome has changed from the crime (though I would dispute that this occurred because of the shooting and not just because the guy was in his 60's and any little illness around that time in your life can be life threatening), but he was already tried anc convicted. Can't charge him again.

If someone can come up with a link to a case with pretty much this EXACT situation, I'll change my tune but otherwise all this 'I had an uncle', 'I heard of a case', or 'I remember back' is just hot air.
 
2007-09-04 01:08:34 AM
I'm getting nervous about Tommy Bernarsi and that BB I shot into his toe the summer after 4th grade. Man, I hope he pulls through or it's the hoosegow an a tin cup fer me.
 
2007-09-04 01:10:10 AM
Fry him. Cop killer. He left his victim a parapalegic and in great pain for 41 years.
 
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