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(WCCO.com)   "I just want to keep this quiet." Complete, raw, uncut Sen. Craig pottylove audio now available for your iPod   (wcco.com) divider line 340
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11753 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2007 at 6:54 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-08-30 08:13:26 PM  
So if my boss if giving me shiat in the office and I tell him to blow me, I could be arrested for solicitation?
 
2007-08-30 08:13:48 PM  
True Value: I guess Sen. Craig wanted to tidy the place up?

Yeah... I wondered that myself, but who knows? Even still...

eraser8: Maybe that's because you don't understand the signaling process. It's been around for a very, very long time. And policemen are trained to recognize it for what it is: a courtship ritual.

What? Do you have a handbook about this or something? How exactly does one learn such things?

"Hey Mike, how do you pick up guys in a bathroom stall next to yours in a public bathroom?"

"Well Joe, there has been a long and glorious tradition of touching your foot to the other guy's foot and then you put your left hand under the stall so the other guy can see it."

"That's it? And that really works?"

"Yep, that's it. It's right here in my 1965 edition of 'How to Score Buttsecks Anywhere'."

---

I mean seriously... WTF?

Hollie Maea: In times like these, you need Slate.com

Well that's just farking weird. haha
 
2007-08-30 08:16:18 PM  
The Invisible Sky Wizard: eraser8: jst3p asks: So asking someone if they want to have sex in public is a crime?

So asking someone to commit murder is a crime? Yep.

Enticing people to commit crimes is itself criminal.

Are you saying that publicly asking someone for sex is criminal, or that asking someone to publicly have sex is criminal?

/confused
//and tongue-tied


He is saying asking someone to have public sex is a crime, because you are enticing them to engage in a criminal act. I don't believe he is correct, but you can look at his bio if you want to know why he is so invested in this.
 
2007-08-30 08:16:26 PM  
OK. This is going to be really easy.

Has a single one of you ever picked up a piece of toilet paper off of the floor of a public restroom?
 
2007-08-30 08:16:42 PM  
Wombatron: To the gay farkers:

Have you ever/Do you ever do this?

Do you know if it works?


I remember a thread a couple of years ago where BearToy was actually defending the practice of gays meeting for sex in public bathrooms and parks.
 
2007-08-30 08:16:50 PM  
The single most striking thing the Senator said that convinces me he was lying:

"I was just trying to pick up a piece of toilet paper off the floor!"

BS! If there is a piece of toilet paper on the floor, in a public men's room, in a heavily travelled airport NOBODY is going to touch it with their bare hands. Heck, I try and not touch walls.

Even Pepe the janitor is going to wear gloves.

This guy is full of shiat.
 
2007-08-30 08:19:44 PM  
superluminal girl: What I really don't understand is how tapping your foot and reaching under the stall divider is grounds for arrest. Is there really a law against soliciting sex that allows you to be charged when you didn't actually verbalize the request? Besides, how can you be arrested for asking an adult for sex.. especially if you didn't offer money.

Yeah... I was wondering about that too... In that case, if you walk up to a girl who happens to be a cop and say, "Hi, I'm John. Would you like to go out sometime?" than you can be arrested?

Or the next thing you know, my wife will notice some skirt a girl is wearing in a store that she likes and asks the girl while she's mimicking the motion of holding a skirt with her fingertips, "Where did you get that skirt? I like it a lot." Then all the sudden they're tackling my wife and charging her with solicitation, "Don't you know? That's how lesbians find other lesbians in clothing stores... and it's criminal!"

That poses another question... do lesbians have any kind of weird ass ritualistic type things like this?
 
2007-08-30 08:20:20 PM  
ScubaRaf: The single most striking thing the Senator said that convinces me he was lying:

"I was just trying to pick up a piece of toilet paper off the floor!"

BS! If there is a piece of toilet paper on the floor, in a public men's room, in a heavily travelled airport NOBODY is going to touch it with their bare hands. Heck, I try and not touch walls.

Even Pepe the janitor is going to wear gloves.

This guy is full of shiat.


I agree, I am not so sure asking someone for sex should be a crime in the first place.
 
2007-08-30 08:20:28 PM  
They should ask him to swear on the Bible that he is not gay.
 
2007-08-30 08:21:53 PM  
JohnnyC:
That poses another question... do lesbians have any kind of weird ass ritualistic type things like this?



I will apply for a government grant to study this. I will report my findings back to you.
 
2007-08-30 08:22:09 PM  
ScubaRaf: Heck, I try and not touch walls.

I don't even touch the handle on the door to get out with my bare hand. I wash my hands and then after I dry them, I carry the paper towel along with me and grasp the door handle with the paper towel instead, then toss out the paper towel. But hey... maybe he's obsessive compulsive about picking up paper off the floor? heh (benefit of the doubt, but it still sounds gross/strange)... the whole thing sounds strange.
 
2007-08-30 08:22:22 PM  
nugz4lunch: OK. This is going to be really easy.

Has a single one of you ever picked up a piece of toilet paper off of the floor of a public restroom?


Not even if I'm the one who dropped it.
 
2007-08-30 08:22:24 PM  
If asking for sex is illegal i commit a few hundred offenses every day... pretty much every female i say "hi how are you" to "yes fries with that" and a sly look is a common hetero codeword for: yes, i will have sex with you.
 
2007-08-30 08:22:28 PM  
Foot signals... hand signals... this gesture... that gesture... all in hopes of some illicit sex.

This just in: teenage girls claim boys have been using stretching ploy for years, to try and get their arm around them in movie theaters....

Shocking, I tell you... just shocking...!
 
2007-08-30 08:22:40 PM  
Wombatron: They should ask him to swear on the Bible that he is not gay.

Maybe he is just "on the down low".
 
2007-08-30 08:22:54 PM  
skinink: "Once upon a daytime dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious perps of forgotten lore,
While I waited, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping on the adjacent bathroom stall floor.
`'Tis some pervert,' I muttered, `tapping on the bathroom floor -
Only this, and nothing more.'"


Ok, I just hurt myself laughing at that... and my husband thinks I'm nuts... Thank You!
 
2007-08-30 08:23:00 PM  
jst3p: I will apply for a government grant to study this. I will report my findings back to you.

After you get the grant, save some of the money to hire me to produce a website to publish your findings online. I'm going to need a lot of pictures... I mean a lot. ;)
 
2007-08-30 08:23:31 PM  
JohnnyC:

That poses another question... do lesbians have any kind of weird ass ritualistic type things like this?

they go to indigo girl concerts and home depot.
 
2007-08-30 08:24:31 PM  
Wombatron: They should ask him to swear on the Bible that he is not gay.

No offense meant or anything, but how exactly does a bible stop anyone from lying? ;)
 
2007-08-30 08:25:09 PM  
JohnnyC: What? Do you have a handbook about this or something? How exactly does one learn such things?



Actually you pick the signlas up form hanging around with other gay people in your area or with your particular proclivity.

I'm not into dudes, but I've had enough friends who were that I know some of the more common signs for my area and places to go if I'm cruising.

Certainly you know at least a few of them yourself? I'll bet if you live in any decent sized city or town you know where gays tend to congregate, and some well known signs a gay man might display to be recognized?

Did you ever hear back in the day that having a certain ear pierced was a type of signal? While less of an alert today, it was a well know sign even amongst hets with no known gay friends.

Now if you're into a particular sexual subculture you pick the stuff up a lot more subtly. In this case probably by hanging out in public restrooms or getting cruised in one. Just like BD/SM people will often drop "code words" into conversation when feeling somebody out. Body language and gestures only seem subtle if you're not looking for them or have not experienced their intent.
 
2007-08-30 08:25:20 PM  
JohnnyC: jst3p: I will apply for a government grant to study this. I will report my findings back to you.

After you get the grant, save some of the money to hire me to produce a website to publish your findings online. I'm going to need a lot of pictures... I mean a lot. ;)


You and me JohnnyC, we will get to the bottom of this mystery. I don't care if we have to work with lesbians for 70 hours a week, I am willing to make the sacrifice.

Oh, but if my wife ever calls, we are studying the migration habits of dolphins. k?
 
2007-08-30 08:28:49 PM  
logruszed:
I'm not into dudes, but I've had enough friends who were that I know some of the more common signs for my area and places to go if I'm cruising.

Certainly you know at least a few of them yourself? I'll bet if you live in any decent sized city or town you know where gays tend to congregate, and some well known signs a gay man might display to be recognized?

Did you ever hear back in the day that having a certain ear pierced was a type of signal? While less of an alert today, it was a well know sign even amongst hets with no known gay friends.

Now if you're into a particular sexual subculture you pick the stuff up a lot more subtly. In this case probably by hanging out in public restrooms or getting cruised in one. Just like BD/SM people will often drop "code words" into conversation when feeling somebody out. Body language and gestures only seem subtle if you're not looking for them or have not experienced their intent.


As an incredibly good looking but hetero guy I bet gay men are flashing these signals at me all the time and I never knew it. That is just amazing.

I bet extending only the middle finger is one of the signals in my area, because that happens to me all the time. I never could figure out why guys would do this to me day in and day out, but now it makes so much sense!
 
2007-08-30 08:28:51 PM  
Bartleby the Scrivener: and home depot.

I could believe that... I saw some 75 year old fat lady in what looked like a leopard print swimsuit except the bottom of it was more like shorts (try to think of a college wrestler outfit), gigantic sunglasses, a huge belt around her gigantic midsection, and big pinkish blond hair. It was quite possibly the craziest outfit I've ever seen on an old woman. I wish I would have had my camera. Hell... I might have been able to substantiate your claim somewhat about the home depot thing because no man on earth would have found that attractive, so it must have been an old lady lesbian thing.
 
2007-08-30 08:29:32 PM  
Bartleby the Scrivener: JohnnyC:

That poses another question... do lesbians have any kind of weird ass ritualistic type things like this?

they go to indigo girl concerts and home depot.


Some months ago Melissa Ethridge was playing downtown Portland and I shiat you not there a virtual sea of female mullets out there.

why a woman finds another woman is no mystery to me. Women are great! But why a woman would want another woman to look like Billy Ray Cyrus? It boggles the mind.
 
2007-08-30 08:30:46 PM  
logruszed: Actually you pick the signlas up form hanging around with other gay people in your area or with your particular proclivity.

I'm not into dudes, but I've had enough friends who were that I know some of the more common signs for my area and places to go if I'm cruising.

Certainly you know at least a few of them yourself? I'll bet if you live in any decent sized city or town you know where gays tend to congregate, and some well known signs a gay man might display to be recognized?

Did you ever hear back in the day that having a certain ear pierced was a type of signal? While less of an alert today, it was a well know sign even amongst hets with no known gay friends.

Now if you're into a particular sexual subculture you pick the stuff up a lot more subtly. In this case probably by hanging out in public restrooms or getting cruised in one. Just like BD/SM people will often drop "code words" into conversation when feeling somebody out. Body language and gestures only seem subtle if you're not looking for them or have not experienced their intent.


So, does that mean that he had been involved with the local gay culture to have known their particular "signals"?
 
2007-08-30 08:31:40 PM  
For all the parsing and dissection of his actions, the solid underlying fact remains:

HE PLED GUILTY.

If it was "a misunderstanding", if he was entrapped, if there were circumstances that weren't noted in the police report, if there were elements that he felt the report embellished, if he felt the cop had outright lied, if he felt his actions were misconstrued.....any or some or all of the above and he wouldn't have taken a plea. He would have had his (literal and proverbial) "day in court" and cleared his name.

He is a US Senator. He's not some dumb poor kid caught with a joint. He has access to some of the best lawyers in the nation. I wouldn't be suprised if he, personally, knows some of the best lawyers in his state. As a "lawmaker" in DC, one assumes that he is aware of the workings of the legal system.

Guilty = Guilty.

There's no amount of parsing or explanation or revisionist hindsight that is sufficient to void those facts.
 
2007-08-30 08:33:05 PM  
I don't care if he did what the police allege. I don't care if he didn't do what the police allege. I don't understand the compulsion to cruise the bathroom for anonymous sex.

However, how is what the police describe as his actions in any way illegal? Even if you do want to look for sex in a public place, what part of that is illegal? As long as you don't actually have sex in public, what is the problem? If I approached someone in an airport sitting at a gate instead of in the bathroom and just flat out asked, "Would you like to have sex with me?" would that be illegal?
 
2007-08-30 08:33:59 PM  
retarded: Are there any instances of women getting arrested for cruising for sex in women's restrooms?

I don't have any stats, but I'd be surprised if there were more than one or two. Women just aren't wired to prowl like men are. Some might, but far more men than women engage in this kind of behavior.

When I was a kid, I was vaguely aware there were two kinds of pr0n in the world: pr0n featuring women, and pr0n featuring men. Naturally, I assumed that the man-pr0n was for the women, and the woman-pr0n was for the men. Then I grew up and realized much to my shock that actually...men pretty much consume all the pr0n.

There's a related anecdote. Kinda.
 
2007-08-30 08:34:52 PM  
logruszed: Certainly you know at least a few of them yourself?

Yeah... I have a couple friends who are gay, but they've never brought up or discussed the subtleties of bathroom pick-up techniques I guess. One of them would be likely candidate for that too, since he was a truck driver and occasionally told stories about hooking up with dudes at rest stops and such. Maybe he just left out the finer points of the stories or something? haha sheesh

jst3p: As an incredibly good looking but hetero guy I bet gay men are flashing these signals at me all the time and I never knew it.

Haha I've been hit on by gay guys enough to know that generally speaking, they're pretty farking blunt about what it is that they're after.

Oh, but if my wife ever calls, we are studying the migration habits of dolphins. k?

If your wife calls, we'll just have my wife tell her something... she'd be down with it too. She went to school for photography as well, so we should be good in that department. ;)
 
2007-08-30 08:35:36 PM  
Bill_Wick's_Friend: For all the parsing and dissection of his actions, the solid underlying fact remains:

HE PLED GUILTY.

If it was "a misunderstanding", if he was entrapped, if there were circumstances that weren't noted in the police report, if there were elements that he felt the report embellished, if he felt the cop had outright lied, if he felt his actions were misconstrued.....any or some or all of the above and he wouldn't have taken a plea. He would have had his (literal and proverbial) "day in court" and cleared his name.

He is a US Senator. He's not some dumb poor kid caught with a joint. He has access to some of the best lawyers in the nation. I wouldn't be suprised if he, personally, knows some of the best lawyers in his state. As a "lawmaker" in DC, one assumes that he is aware of the workings of the legal system.

Guilty = Guilty.

There's no amount of parsing or explanation or revisionist hindsight that is sufficient to void those facts.


pleading "guilt" does not always mean that a crime was committed. there have been many instances where confessions and pleas have been judged to be coerced or the person was deemed to be under duress during interrogation. interrogation supposedly has rules, although they are not always followed.

the only thing he's guilty of is not having a lwayer present.
 
2007-08-30 08:36:54 PM  
The Invisible Sky Wizard: nugz4lunch: OK. This is going to be really easy.

Has a single one of you ever picked up a piece of toilet paper off of the floor of a public restroom?

Not even if I'm the one who dropped it.


Not even if it were a $50 bill

/$100, maybe
 
2007-08-30 08:37:42 PM  
logruszed: why a woman finds another woman is no mystery to me. Women are great! But why a woman would want another woman to look like Billy Ray Cyrus? It boggles the mind.

Yeah... that one confuses me too. I have never understood the whole 'dress up like a man to hit on other women dressed up as men' thing. Seems like if they were attracted to women, they would want women to look like women, not women to look like they're trying to look like men (because they never do...)

And yes... I've noticed the mullet thing too. Weird eh? I wonder if they like hockey? I love hockey!

johnnygfx.com

WOOT! :D

/sorry... season is starting up pretty soon and I'm jonesing for a fix
 
2007-08-30 08:39:30 PM  
Craig's actions aside, that cop sounds like a total douchenozzle. Give them a badge and they think they're better than you.
 
2007-08-30 08:40:07 PM  
JohnnyC: I wonder if they like hockey? I love hockey!

Oh... and since I went there already and this is about some closet gay dude... I can't forget the Calgary Flames!

johnnygfx.com

You figure that guy knows about the 'hand under the stall' thing?

Do you think gay guys would dig those pointy red slippers he's got on bumping up against their shoe?
 
2007-08-30 08:41:09 PM  
I'm now stuck with the unpleasant image of the Senator tapping his feet and waving his hands whilst chanting "Let's Go Red Wings", a less than subtle cruising pickup signal.
 
2007-08-30 08:41:39 PM  
JOEKC: Not even if it were a $50 bill

I'd pick up a fifty... I'd wash it and my hands about 3 to 4 times afterward and spend it fast and wash my hands again, but I would pick up a $50.
 
2007-08-30 08:42:13 PM  
Just write the guy a damn ticket. This whole business is sad and unseemly.
 
2007-08-30 08:42:39 PM  
"did my hand go below the divider, yes i believe it did"

guilty.
 
2007-08-30 08:42:43 PM  
Ozlander: I'm now stuck with the unpleasant image of the Senator tapping his feet and waving his hands whilst chanting "Let's Go Red Wings", a less than subtle cruising pickup signal.

You mean a female Senator? Because that's more of a female thing.
 
2007-08-30 08:43:06 PM  
jst3p asks: Would asking someone if they would like to murder someone a crime?

It certainly can be. Yes.

Again, I think that only applies to felonies...

That is not correct.

Is public sex one of them? Please cite a source.

Depends on the jurisdiction. But, as a rule, it is criminal to entice others to commit crimes.

Kentucky for example has this:
A person is guilty of criminal solicitation when, with the intent of promoting or facilitating the commission of a crime, he commands or encourages another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute that crime or an attempt to commit that crime or which would establish the other's complicity in its commission or attempted commission.

A criminal solicitation is a:
(a) Class C felony when the crime solicited is a violation of KRS 521.020 or 521.050;
(b) Class B felony when the crime solicited is a Class A felony or capital offense;
(c) Class C felony when the crime solicited is a Class B felony;
(d) Class A misdemeanor when the crime solicited is a Class C or D felony;
(e) Class B misdemeanor when the crime solicited is a misdemeanor.
 
2007-08-30 08:43:28 PM  
Bartleby the Scrivener: the only thing he's guilty of is not having a lwayer present.

A lot of people have said that in this thread, but I'm thinking he didn't want a lawyer or he would have asked for one. If he had a lawyer and fought the charges, he would not have been able to keep it hushed up (as he almost did.) With all these rumors swirling in his past, the last thing he wanted was a public airing of the charges. Nope, he was only too glad to get away with a $500 fine and keep his fingers crossed the story didn't get out. He failed.
 
2007-08-30 08:46:01 PM  
Another odd thought popped into my head. How many of those dudes in the public bathrooms that I've passed through in my life were really cops just waiting for a gay guy to make his move?

And how crappy a job is that? Hahah crappy... sorry. Seriously? That's one shiatty job... HAHAH sorry again. :D
 
2007-08-30 08:46:22 PM  
jst3p writes: I don't believe he is correct...

Here's a clue: if I were incorrect, Mr. Craig wouldn't be in the trouble he's in now.

you can look at his bio if you want to know why he is so invested in this.

What the hell are you talking about?

What, exactly, does my bio reveal? And how do you figure I've "invested" in this?
 
2007-08-30 08:46:55 PM  
JohnnyC: I'd pick up a fifty... I'd wash boil it and my hands about 3 to 4 times afterward

Yeah, even my hands
 
2007-08-30 08:47:53 PM  
JOEKC: Yeah, even my hands

I wouldn't boil it... my pans are worth more than the $50. :)
 
2007-08-30 08:49:12 PM  
Wombatron: So, does that mean that he had been involved with the local gay culture to have known their particular "signals"?

Well probably this wasn't his first time. And I mentioned "local" so as to include that concept that there are different signals which are more or less particular to regions, but I did not mean to imply that there are not some more universal signals or that there are not signals that are recognized based more on circumstance or specific environment.

Certainly in more than just my local area rest stops are known to be a place to meet dudes looking for a roadside hummer? I'm willing to wager that the subtleties of that particular lifestyle have managed to migrate all over the country, possibly even internationally.

I doubt any farkers are going to come forth to confirm this, but it seems sensible.
 
2007-08-30 08:50:19 PM  
A gay coworker of mine was cracked up by this whole episode. His response: "Somebody should explain to the senator that you wait until you're both washing your hands, then you say something like 'I'm gonna go get a drink at the bar. You want to join me?' And you take it from there." He thinks Craig should resign simply because he's too hypocritical, naive, and just plain stupid to live.
 
2007-08-30 08:50:34 PM  
retarded: women

What about those two cheerleaders last year? Florida Panthers or something, right?
 
2007-08-30 08:51:04 PM  
www.thestranger.com

Man- I think my senator is gay!

What makes you say that???

Well, for one his dick tastes like shiat...
 
2007-08-30 08:52:46 PM  
From the transcript, I was pretty sure the Senator was lying. And from the previous reenactments and stories about this, it seemed pretty obvious. But listen to the audio...

As much as I'd find it humorous that another Republican was busted for hypocrisy, I'm now pretty convinced the Senator is telling the truth.

I'm also pretty sure the cop was covering his own ass. No one was 'disrespecting' him, and no one was lying to him. The cop was just being an ass.

And in retrospect, I have a hard time believing we let cops arrest someone for tapping their feet, or waving their hands. What I'd be more interested in, is the initial reports of this that stated that cop had been alerted to some kind of lewd behavior in the bathroom, which is why he went there in the first place.

That could swing this back in the cop's favor. But for now, based on the audio of this, I think the Senator is not guilty.

And look at how fast his friends abandoned him! With friends like those, who needs gay sex bathroom cops?
 
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