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(Chron)   Houstonians on Friday will have multiple angle red light cameras go online. City response should calm fears: "This is not about revenue, This is about changing the behavior and public safety"   (chron.com) divider line 104
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2600 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2007 at 11:17 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-08-29 08:42:31 PM
And on Saturday the city of Houston will release its first Public Sex porn on DVD....WITH MULTIPLE ANGLES.
 
2007-08-29 08:55:49 PM
I wish my local government was actively trying to modify my behavior. That is what governments do best.
 
2007-08-29 09:07:53 PM
HPD's brass love the red light cameras.It lets them assign more officers to U-turns under overpasses to issue seat belt, inspection & registration violation citations.HPD also has quotas , but they call them performance goals.


/it's all about the revenue stupid
 
2007-08-29 09:36:06 PM
bmr68: HPD's brass love the red light cameras.It lets them assign more officers to U-turns under overpasses to issue seat belt, inspection & registration violation citations.HPD also has quotas , but they call them performance goals.

How about just stopping fully at red lights, wearing your seatbelt, maintaining your car in working order, and keeping your registration current? Wouldn't that be the ultimate form of protest against this vile HPD and their draconian practices?
 
2007-08-29 09:40:08 PM
Alternate headline: The City of Houston, in collaboration with insurance companies, institutes program designed to cause more rear-end collisions.
 
2007-08-29 09:42:45 PM
RocketRod
How about just stopping fully at red lights, wearing your seatbelt, maintaining your car in working order, and keeping your registration current? Wouldn't that be the ultimate form of protest against this vile HPD and their draconian practices?

Problem is too many people are jamming on the brakes when it turns yellow at intersections with the red light cameras.The city will not admit it.HPD is also dragging their feet about conducting the state mandated intersection studies.
 
2007-08-29 09:54:49 PM
bmr68: Problem is too many people are jamming on the brakes when it turns yellow at intersections with the red light cameras.

I feel you... but if they're jamming on the brakes for a yellow, then are they traveling above the posted speed limit when they do do?
 
2007-08-29 10:23:19 PM
bmr68: Problem is too many people are jamming on the brakes when it turns yellow at intersections with the red light cameras.The city will not admit it.HPD is also dragging their feet about conducting the state mandated intersection studies.



I drive through the intersection at El Camino and Bay Area at least twice a day during the week and often on the weekends and mostly during rush hour. I rarely see people slamming on their breaks. Most people still go through this intersection on the yellow light. I *have* had to lock my breaks up several times over the last few years because of someone running the unprotected left turn and I have witnessed about three accidents - One occurring right next to me because of some guy running the left turn on to Bay Area.

If something can make that particular intersection less dangerous (and the other major intersections on El Camino - Clear Lake, NASA...), I'm all for it.

OTOH, I do agree that that they need to get off their ass with the intersection studies. I wouldn't mind one bit if that money used to install red-light cameras was used instead to analyze traffic flow and light frequencies...who knows....Making the flow of traffic more efficient may reduce the amount of people willing to run through red lights.
 
2007-08-29 10:24:06 PM
RocketRod:

I feel you... but if they're jamming on the brakes for a yellow, then are they traveling above the posted speed limit when they do do?


I doubt all municipalities have done the required traffic studies to make sure all yellow light lengths are timed perfectly for the intersection. Take in slow reaction times or distractions and sometimes you just have to speed up to get through.

Plus hasn't every study ever published shown that red light cameras increase accidents and do nothing more than funnel money into the police department?
 
2007-08-29 11:05:20 PM
Postal Penguin:do nothing more than funnel money into the police department?

DINGDINGDING

We have a winner.
 
2007-08-29 11:19:48 PM
RocketRod: I feel you... but if they're jamming on the brakes for a yellow, then are they traveling above the posted speed limit when they do do?

I tried to do do above the posted speed limit once, but I wound up with skid marks all over my shorts.
 
2007-08-29 11:20:58 PM
Smile! You're on "Candid Camera"!
 
2007-08-29 11:20:58 PM
If it's not about revenue, then why not put 100% of the funds collected on the tickets from the cameras toward a charity?

/put their money where their mouth is
 
2007-08-29 11:21:01 PM
stupid city council
 
2007-08-29 11:22:53 PM
You can't change Houstonians behavior until you send the Katrina "refugees" home.

It's been two years already.

/just saying
 
2007-08-29 11:22:58 PM
This is not about revenue, This is about changing the behavior and public safety

Well, there's an easy way to back this up. Put all revenue from them towards a public tax refund.

Someone in Houston, propose this publicly. Force them to prove what they say.
 
2007-08-29 11:23:52 PM
They put some up at a busy intersection in Springfield, MO this past spring, and last I'd heard, they were too effective: people were aware that they were there, and the police ended up ticketing a shiat-ton lesser amount of red-light runners than they'd hoped to catch. But that's just ol' Springtucky.
 
2007-08-29 11:24:03 PM
the_cnidarian: I wish my local government was actively trying to modify my behavior. That is what governments do best.

For the people, by the people...

/?
 
2007-08-29 11:24:30 PM
Skynet, 10 years later!
 
2007-08-29 11:25:31 PM
Memo to the drivers of Houston:

Be prepared for a big jump in the number of rear-end accidents at the intersections that have the cameras. Drivers will stand on their brakes the instant the light turns yellow out of fear of getting a ticket. That's what happened when they installed these cameras in San Diego.
 
2007-08-29 11:25:42 PM
implementor: If it's not about revenue, then why not put 100% of the funds collected on the tickets from the cameras toward a charity?

/put their money where their mouth is


What? Their mouth is in a charity?
 
2007-08-29 11:28:42 PM
It's pretty much been proven, if you put a camera on someone, the asshat comes out. Ask the MTV jackass crew
 
2007-08-29 11:29:21 PM
RocketRod: bmr68: Problem is too many people are jamming on the brakes when it turns yellow at intersections with the red light cameras.

I feel you... but if they're jamming on the brakes for a yellow, then are they traveling above the posted speed limit when they do do?



If you stop at a yellow and cause a traffic problem (such as you stop in the middle of the intersection) while you were travelling at or under the posted limit, you can be ticketed. Anyone who hits you from behind is still a moron that shouldn't have been following so closely.

I should know...I'm one of those morons. Two rear enders in 5 years, but one wasn't my fault. It's kinda hard to stop when some jackass from Arizona swerves over two lanes to get on the on ramp and then slams on his brakes when he realizes there's a stop light on the ramp. But the other one, yeah, DEFINITELY my fault. Now I don't follow so closely.

I still speed, though....
 
2007-08-29 11:32:05 PM
xzisted

Seriously. I read the headline and thought: "Red light...district?...cameras...what?"
 
M-G
2007-08-29 11:33:16 PM
RocketRod: I feel you... but if they're jamming on the brakes for a yellow, then are they traveling above the posted speed limit when they do do?

Not necessarily. Just like people who aren't speeding slam on their brakes when they see a cop car. They're terrified.

Numerous studies have shown that the most effective way to reduce red light violations is to have a correct yellow time. In fact, reducing the yellow time is one of the great tricks used at intersections when camera revenues drop. That, and changing the boundaries of what is considered a violation. Think of the cable ISP's who will suspend customers for excessive use, but won't define what it is, and you get the picture.
 
2007-08-29 11:33:30 PM
If someone ahead of you slams on their brakes for a yellow light and you crash into them, you were following too close. Besides, you should be stopping for the impending red light, just stopping one car length earlier.
 
2007-08-29 11:34:59 PM
farm2.static.flickr.com

Will this make the city any smaller?
 
2007-08-29 11:39:17 PM
img1.picturewizard.com
FIGHTN CRIME 24/7
 
2007-08-29 11:40:03 PM
xadrian: Will this make the city country any smaller?

FIFY
 
2007-08-29 11:42:44 PM
So you guys are more worried about rear end collisions than you are about a t bone collision? How about you just farking stop for the amned red lights? Why is that such a crazy thought? If you don't run a red light, you don't get a ticket for running a red light. Dumbasses.
 
2007-08-29 11:45:19 PM
srtpointman: So you guys are more worried about rear end collisions than you are about a t bone collision? How about you just farking stop for the amned red lights? Why is that such a crazy thought? If you don't run a red light, you don't get a ticket for running a red light. Dumbasses.

What he said.

/All for anything that hits red-light running jackasses where it hurts.
 
2007-08-29 11:45:34 PM
Want to convince me that it's all about saftey and not revenue?

Stop issuing fines, start suspending licenses. Take drivers violating the laws that are here "for our saftey" off the roads. The current system just encourages more inane laws that the rich can flaunt at will.
 
2007-08-29 11:45:56 PM
The interesting thing is this: The average yellow light is 5 seconds. Many of the cities that installed these so-called "safety" devices also had the yellow light duration shortened to 3 seconds.

So... you (Joe Citizen) see a yellow light and automatically judge whether or not you can make it based upon years and years of experience (5 second lights) when all of a sudden, "FLASH!" the light turns red and you are on the proverbial Candid Camera.

If it is truly about safety, why did they fark with the yellow light duration?
 
2007-08-29 11:50:05 PM
Crime! Crime! Crime! Crime!
Dollar quarter nickel dime
 
2007-08-29 11:51:35 PM
The Biochemist: Want to convince me that it's all about saftey and not revenue?

Beuller?
 
2007-08-29 11:54:45 PM
c'mon out to the desert when you're sick of the honduran ms-13 motherfukers and the lazy-ass do-nothin' i got rights katricians..... houston, i loved thee when george jones was writing ditties but now houston is LA without the mountains, beach or fake overrich people and mediterranean weather.....

this city is desperately trying to work but the people won't meet half way... give it 20 years and it's detroit....

we love our wide open spaces and being left alone out here.........


graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2007-08-29 11:55:00 PM
bah I say we hire a sniper to take out the red light cams, after they start loosing money on the deal. Maybe they will stop trying to control us.
 
2007-08-29 11:57:54 PM
srtpointman: So you guys are more worried about rear end collisions than you are about a t bone collision?

Realizing of course that a rear-end collision can create a t-bone collision in some circumstances, I'd like to point out that nobody is suggesting red light runners deserve no punishment, or that t-bone collisions are "good". They're suggesting that these cameras can cause more problems than they solve. Are you typically this dense?
In fact, causing more accidents is a bad thing, even if you somehow believe they will all be minor.
 
2007-08-29 11:58:25 PM
And of course they wont change the timing sequences or make the yellow light shorter...
 
2007-08-30 12:00:05 AM
Kozaru
The interesting thing is this: The average yellow light is 5 seconds. Many of the cities that installed these so-called "safety" devices also had the yellow light duration shortened to 3 seconds.

So... you (Joe Citizen) see a yellow light and automatically judge whether or not you can make it based upon years and years of experience (5 second lights) when all of a sudden, "FLASH!" the light turns red and you are on the proverbial Candid Camera.

If it is truly about safety, why did they fark with the yellow light duration?


Thats exactly why HPD was required to do the intersection studies to answer questions like that.
 
2007-08-30 12:00:33 AM
Really, people will adjust to these cameras on routes that are minor and typically driven by the same people. But on arterial streets, where you may have a number of unfamiliar drivers, these can be a big problem.

And guess how much money will be lost in a lawsuit when someone dies? There goes all that revenue that they aren't using these cameras to generate for the city.
 
2007-08-30 12:01:37 AM
Where is the average yellow light 5 seconds?!
 
2007-08-30 12:02:05 AM
I'm not dense. By your argument, cops also shouldn't run radar because someone might slow down too fast and get rear ended. It's not the fault of the cops. It's the fault of the dense jackass who's tailgating. Idiot.
 
2007-08-30 12:06:20 AM
Jesus H. Christ. In every farking traffic thread, there's always one asswipe preaching "Don't break the law and there's nothing to worry about."

You know what? fark you and the idea that a camera on every street corner is a good idea.

And "the ultimate form of protest" would be to throw out the asshole politicians that make this possible. Where in the fark did anyone (and by anyone I mean RocketRod) get the idea that sheeplike compliance is the ultimate form of protest? Better go look that word up, sheepy-boy.
 
2007-08-30 12:08:21 AM
bmr68:
Thats exactly why HPD was required to do the intersection studies to answer questions like that.


Here in San Diego the company that manufactured these "safety devices" received $100 from every $381 ticket written.

Conflict of interest, anyone? If I were that company I'd make that farking yellow light 1 second if I knew I'd be getting $100 checks in the mail.
 
2007-08-30 12:09:51 AM
I have nearly been hit twice by idiots running red lights. If the last one had actually hit me, my passenger would have been killed. I don't have a problem at all with these red light cameras. I hope they nail every farking bastard who runs a redlight.
 
2007-08-30 12:10:15 AM
If it is truly about safety, why did they fark with the yellow light duration?

Why don't they just move the traffic sensors (the system that signals when a car is waiting for a green light) CLOSER to the intersection and at the same time move the camera's sensor FURTHER AWAY from the intersection? Then *everybody* will have to be a red light runner in order to get anywhere. Woo-hoo! Ka-ching, ka-ching!! Pay raises for everyone!
 
2007-08-30 12:11:33 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2007-08-30 12:13:31 AM
Heres a decent result from a pretty comprehensive study. Its rather difficult to assume these results are swayed by the desire to generate more revenue for a local jurisdiction's revenue stream.

As some folks have noted, there seems to be a slight increase in rear end crashes. There is also a pretty significant decrease in side crashes. Makes sense to me.

I don't understand all the consternation. The study seems to point out that these programs are most effective when the signage is clear, and plentiful (ie, going into a town, you know you're being watched at intersections.)

Barring a complete reboot of American urban planning, with roundabouts and such, and a significant change in the cultural mentality, I'd say programs like these are probably a necessary evil. It seems to me that car commercials are a much more dominant and pervasive (never mind profitable) form of behaviour modification than red light cameras so I don't really understand the furor over these sorts of things.

In the quest for the almighty buck, it amazes me that people give a free pass to the private companies that produce said red light cameras and probably lobby for them pretty hard but are all too glib to come down on some local police department.
 
2007-08-30 12:13:59 AM
I lived in Houston for 17 years, been gone for 2(miss y'all by the way), and while I'm just in general opposed to these kinds of cameras, I'm pretty sure that no Houston people will disagree with me that green=go, yellow=go like hell, and red=3 more cars
 
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