"It's a cultural thing, I think," Jamie said. "Most brothers didn't know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn't know that was Fed time. So, mike probably just didn't read his handbook on what not to do as a black star."

By far the most ignorant thing I have read all day.

Bonkthat_Again

Newsletter request

Yeah, that's why you're a racist. Jamie Fox's comments made you hate black people. Sure.

Between this guy and Kanye y'all got some crazy mofos across the pond there.

Dog fighting should be legal and regulated. It's really no different from horseracing or dog racing from an ethical standpoint.

Gwendolyn

Don't forget we pay thousands of dollars per ticket to watch other humans beat the shiat out of each for sport.

Action Replay Nick: Dog fighting should be legal and regulated. It's really no different from horseracing or dog racing from an ethical standpoint.

The troll fu is strong in this one.

Action Replay Nick

Have you ever seen horse fighting, I saw it somewhere and they do it in Vietnam or some place, that shiat is brutal and hard to watch.

Horse fighting would be awesome.

Bonkthat_Again
Have you ever seen the living conditions of race horses? Some of them live better than most humans.

That's all fine and dandy until the horse breaks a leg and is sent off to the glue factory.

Action Replay Nick

Not always, if it is a prized stallion they will keep him for studding purposes.

Horse Fighting (new window)

Gwendolyn: I just really don't see the difference.

Maybe we're not gathered in a circle around the cows wagering and cheering as they tear each other to death? That's one of the first of many differences that occurred to me fairly quickly. I like you lots and I get the point you're making, but the "I can't see the difference" argument often makes people appear either disingenuous or unsmart.

i'm all for getting rid of horse/dog racing and especially the horse vs dog races they show on ESPN 2.

Being one of the token whiteys in my office, I had to opt out of the Michael Vick discussion going on at my desk.

It went something like this:

Guy 1: You know what's going to happen to all those dogs they can't find a place for?
Me: They're going to euthanise them humanely
Guy 1: What's the difference between that and eating chicken. Do you have any idea how many bugs you kill every day. You gonna wear a mask every day to keep from killing bugs?
Me: You know that's not the same thing.
Guy 1: Pit bulls are a violent breed anyway.
Me: Well that's the problem. You have backyard breeders that are breeding these traits in instead of certified AKC breeders trying to breed the violent traits out.
Guy 2: My dad threw my german shepherd in the yard with my neighbor's pit bull, and you know what he did?
Guy 1: He defended himself
Guy 2: Yeah, he defended himself.
Me: *facepalm*

I grew up in the same place as one of these guys and 30 minutes away from Smithfield, where Vick's stuff was going on.

/I have no idea what kind of point I'm trying to make

onecanshort

Actually, when they are moved to a stud farm there is no farking, with prized animals it is all done artificially, so it is just hand jobs and frolicking

Action Replay Nick: Horse fighting would be awesome.

You! New keyboard NOW!

Chiggity Chza: so it is just hand jobs and frolicking

They get Fark accounts?!

I love how people are TOTALLY ok with the violence of the human meat grinder that is football but are up in arms as soon as a puppy dies.


If you hate dog fighting, you should hate football.

Watchman
They get Fark accounts?!

I said hand jobs and frolicking, not ass raping and ridicule

onecanshort
Not only is it more humane for ANY horse with a leg injury to be put down,

Well, obviously the dog fighting should be regulated to mitigate or eliminate abuse.

Come on, we're not talking about pitting Fluffy against Snowflake here, these are pitbulls. Half of America thinks they should be outlawed and euthanised, and anyone with two braincells will acknowledge that it doesn't take much to get them to unleash their killing instincts.

OJ Simpson.

Rodney King.

9/11.

/just getting these out of the way early

kingMountain: i'm all for getting rid of horse/dog racing and especially the horse vs dog races they show on ESPN 2.

I saw midgets vs. camels racing on TV once. I laughed, then felt guilty. The midgets didn't get to wear shoes.

NukeTheGayWhales: The midgets didn't get to wear shoes.

not even the little shoes that curlicue at the toe?

Action Replay Nick

You don't own a Pit do you? I do and he is the sweetest thing on earth. Basically, a dog is a dog is a dog. You have to be extremely threatening to make my dog "unleash its killer instinct." My dog is less likely to bite someone than Paris' ugly ass little chihuahua. Only difference is that my dog is strong as an ox and tough as a nail. My dog catches bugs and plays with it like a cat, that is the extent of his killer instinct unprovoked. But if you provoke any animal/dog, the breed becomes moot point. Pit bull attacks are usually made up because of ignorance.

Find The Pit Bull (new window)

kingMountain: NukeTheGayWhales: The midgets didn't get to wear shoes.

not even the little shoes that curlicue at the toe?

Sadly no. But I like where you're going with that.

NukeTheGayWhales


Hotness

marcre3363: OJ Simpson.

Rodney King.

9/11.

/just getting these out of the way early

You forgot Katrina.

/And slavery.

Action Replay Nick: Yeah, that's why you're a racist. Jamie Fox's comments made you hate black people. Sure.

Yep.

Chiggity Chza

I get it. You own a dog, congratulations. Most of the pitbulls I've come to know over the years have been nice and docile because of good training. However, no matter how good the training, it doesn't take much threatening from another dog to turn a pitbull into the savage beast it naturally is. I think people should be allowed to own them as long as they except the consequences should something go wrong, and I think fighting them should be legal and regulated. It's what they're naturally good at.

Action Replay Nick: and I think fighting them should be legal and regulated. It's what they're naturally good at.

only if it's man vs pitbull fights. that i would watch.

Action Replay Nick: However, no matter how good the training, it doesn't take much threatening from another dog to turn a pitbull into the savage beast it naturally is.

Untrue.

Pit bulls have a far better temperament and are friendlier towards people than most breeds, which makes them poor guard dogs and attack animals.

Excerpt from the United Kennel Club:

"The APBT [American Pit Bull Terrier] is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable."

/Quit trolling, butthead.

ginger ninja: Guy 1: You know what's going to happen to all those dogs they can't find a place for?
Me: They're going to euthanise them humanely
Guy 1: What's the difference between that and eating chicken. Do you have any idea how many bugs you kill every day. You gonna wear a mask every day to keep from killing bugs?

It's helped me calibrate my new "retard-o-meter". If someone can't tell the difference between a dog and a bug then they shouldn't be trusted with any task more mentally taxing than ditch digging.

miseducated: Pit bulls have a far better temperament and are friendlier towards people than most breeds, which makes them poor guard dogs and attack animals.

Yeah, it says a lot about the dogs that you have to constantly train them to attack, starve and abuse them in order to get them to fight.

Action Replay Nick

Dogs are social creatures. I bring mine to the river constantly and other people bring their dogs as well. My pit doesn't even pay attention to other dogs. When dogs come over to him he just walks away and ignores them, only heard him growl once and that was when this big ass golden retriever kept repeatedly trying to mount him. If you grab any dog off the street and put them in the conditions fighting dogs are raised in you will have the same outcome. Once again the breed is a moot point. Fighting is not what they are naturally good at, pit bulls were bred as plow dogs but extorted as fighting dogs because of their strength and gameness. Your ignorance in the subject of dogs is the reason why people go up in arms about pit bulls. To judge a dog by it's breed is like judging a person by the color of their skin or a book by its cover. I know you are smart man and shouldn't make assumptions like that.

miseducated
Pit bulls have a far better temperament and are friendlier towards people than most breeds,

I wasn't talking about people, I specifically said other dogs. I'm actually not trolling, I have no sentimental attachment to animals whatsoever, and if dog and horse racing isn't abuse, neither is dog fighting, as far as I can tell.

Of course, all of the sadistic torture and post-mortem mutilation of the dogs in the Vick case is sick and shouldn't be tolerated, but as far as dogfighting itself goes, I think it should be legal.

Action Replay Nick: and if dog and horse racing isn't abuse, neither is dog fighting, as far as I can tell.

i would say dog and horse racing is abuse as well. honestly don't care if the horse is wearing gold-plated diapers, i don't see any point to animal-based sports whatsoever.

Action Replay Nick

I agree with you, legalize it, regulate it and tax it. I have no problems with that. I do have problems with assumptions that are being made of a certain breeds. Since, I do own a pit I accept responsibility for what he may or may not do. The problem is if my dog does bite someone I am looking at felony charges as opposed to if Joh Doe's lab bites someone he looking at a slap on a wrist. It is discrimination. Ditto for rottweilers, bull terriers, dobermans, chows, corsos and any other "vicious" breed out there.

Action Replay Nick: and if dog and horse racing isn't abuse, neither is dog fighting, as far as I can tell.

By that token, if it's not abuse to force your kids to play football or soccer, it's not abuse to force your kids to fight other kids to the point of tearing flesh and biting skin off.

Fortunately, the sane portion of society disagrees with you.

Gwendolyn: To some people they are of equal quality.

Thanks! ... I mean, "Heeeeyyy!" :-(

He'z in ur naborhud eatin ur petz

SchlingFo: Action Replay Nick: and if dog and horse racing isn't abuse, neither is dog fighting, as far as I can tell.

By that token, if it's not abuse to force your kids to play football or soccer, it's not abuse to force your kids to fight other kids to the point of tearing flesh and biting skin off.

Fortunately, the sane portion of society disagrees with you.



No. only the delusional side

SchlingFo
By that token, if it's not abuse to force your kids to play football or soccer, it's not abuse to force your kids to fight other kids to the point of tearing flesh and biting skin off.

False. Animals != People.

Action Replay Nick: if dog and horse racing isn't abuse, neither is dog fighting, as far as I can tell.

Isn't that the same, though, as saying "Since we can't end *all* abuse, we'll end *no* abuse."

If we can't help everybody, why help anybody?
If we can't feed the world, why feed my neighbor?
If I can't save a planet, why save a neighborhood?

Old and busted: Dogfighting
New hotness: Tortoise wrestling

Action Replay Nick: I'm actually not trolling, I have no sentimental attachment to animals whatsoever, and if dog and horse racing isn't abuse, neither is dog fighting, as far as I can tell.

When you use a phrase like "savage beast" in regards to pit bull terriers, you can only either be trolling, or know nothing about the breed.

Even in relation to other dogs, pit bulls are naturally friendly to a fault. You have to gall a pit bull, to the point where it has no other option but to fight, into making it attack a person or other animal.

Speak to anyone at your local SPCA, and they'll tell you stories about pit bulls that have come into their shelters with obscene injuries inflicted by owners; the dogs don't fight back against their owners as they're being beaten. And they'll often lose fights with other dogs not because they can't fight, but because they won't.

Anyway, for everyone in this thread that thinks EVERY black person will defend Vick on the basis of his blackness, I say he deserves whatever he gets. And I still haven't heard a single family member or friend defend him. Please stop with this "Black people ALWAYS stick together" bullsh*t.

Bonkthat_Again: The "Pit Bull" is nothing short of a mutt bred from the most aggressive breeds.

Untrue. The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred from bulldog and terrier breeds that were most helpful assisting farmers with herding cattle and sheep.

Presa CanariosNukeTheGayWhales: Old and busted: Dogfighting
New hotness: Tortoise wrestling

Uhh, I don't think those turtles are "wrestling", bro.

Bonkthat_Again

I adopted him if you must know. I took him because he was a great dog and needed a good home. These laws have just recently passed because of all the fear mongering.

There is some complication in registries of this breed. The AKC considers the American Staffordshire Terrier as separate and distinct from the American Pit Bull Terrier, yet the UKC will register both as American Pit Bull Terriers (APBTs)...In 1898 the United Kennel Club was formed with the express intent of providing registration and fighting guidelines for the now officially-named American Pit Bull Terrier. Later, those who wished to distance themselves from the fighting aspect of the breed petitioned the American Kennel Club for recognition of the Pit Bull so that it would be eligible for dog shows and other performance events. The AKC conceded in 1936 but only under the stipulation that the dogs registered with them be called "Staffordshire Terriers", the name of the province in England the breed supposedly originated in. Upon acceptance of the breed, many people dual-registered their dogs with both the AKC and the UKC.

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

Action Replay Nick: False. Animals != People.

Yeah, I know that.

That's why it's called an analogy.

Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?

I see the thread has been jacked but I'll bite:

I've never heard of a chihuahua mauling someone to death and my loathing of that particular breed cannot be measured by any terminology known to mortal man.

However...

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)

Bonkthat_Again

Thanks for you approval and after owning a pit I will pick one over any other breed because it is by far the best dog I have ever owned. If my dog was overly aggressive he would go back to boot camp. Typically, aggression can stem from a power struggle between master and dog. If this line is clearly defined with said dog then controlling him should be no problem. An aggressive dog is an unhappy dog.

DaWormyPimpsta: I've never heard of a chihuahua mauling someone to death and my loathing of that particular breed cannot be measured by any terminology known to mortal man.

However...

They're strong dogs and, in the case of Rotts, can outweigh most women.

When you couple this with the fact that they're the dog of choice for ghetto and trailer trash who get them and abuse them to try and make them into violent dogs, you're going to have lots of really nasty attacks.

If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Bonkthat_Again

But when UKC, which is THE authority on dog breeding, disagrees with you, I'll stick with UKC's point of view.

"Sometime during the nineteenth century, dog fanciers in England, Ireland, and Scotland began to experiment with crosses between Bulldogs and Terriers, looking for a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the Bulldog. The result was a dog that embodied all of the virtues attributed to great warriors: strength, indomitable courage, and gentleness with loved ones. Immigrants brought these bull and terrier crosses to the United States. The American Pit Bull Terrier's many talents did not go unnoticed by farmers and ranchers who used their APBTs for protection, as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions."

The usage of the words "Originally created" in your Wikipedia article, is highly subjective, to the point of being wrong. The cross-breeding of terriers and bulldogs in England and Scotland was originally for the purpose of farm work and family companionship. The fact that urban dwellers and immigrants used the dogs for dogfighting reflects on the dog owners; not the breed.

As a matter of fact, here is another Wikipedia article that contradicts the "creation" theory in the article you just quoted.

DaWormyPimpsta

Go to my link for guess the pit bull. See if you get it right, people are usually confused and spout off the first thing that comes to mind.

Just because a chihuahua hasn't malled someone to death doesn't mean they are not aggressive. Due to their size it is a lot harder for them do any real damage but these little yappy ass dogs have accounted for 99% of the dog bites I have ever received. Nipping at ankles and shiat. That kind of behavior would be totally unacceptable if my dog did that. But yet if I go somewhere and one of these little yappy ass dogs bites me it's no big deal. I have had dachsunds, yorkies and other little ass farking dogs tear my ankles up just for walking.

SchlingFo: If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Exactly. Labs, Golden Retrievers, Collies, and Great Danes have a worse temperament than pit bull terriers. Dalmatians are particularly nasty, and don't get along well with children.

If any of these breeds were as popular with trashy, careless people who used them for dogfighting and penile compensation, pit bulls would be almost off the radar.

It's because these dogs aren't as cute or fabled as other breeds, that they're constantly under the gun.

miseducated: Exactly. Labs, Golden Retrievers, Collies, and Great Danes have a worse temperament than pit bull terriers. Dalmatians are particularly nasty, and don't get along well with children.

Aren't we supposed to be arguing about racism?

and by malled i mean mauled, not shopping for dolce or chanel

nom nom nom

SchlingFo

It was all those farking wankers fault, if they wouldn't have started dog fighting in the country 200+ years ago Michael Vick wouldn't have this problem today. Blame the English

Spanish people gather in stadiums and watch a bull get skewered to death, and cheer. But there's nothing wrong with that.

So yeah, it is a cultural thing.

Chiggity Chza: That kind of behavior would be totally unacceptable if my dog did that. But yet if I go somewhere and one of these little yappy ass dogs bites me it's no big deal. I have had dachsunds, yorkies and other little ass farking dogs tear my ankles up just for walking.

You'll also notice that these dogs are much more aggressive in the presence of larger dogs; especially larger dogs that don't return their aggressiveness in kind.

I walk my friend's pit bull once or twice a week, when I'm downtown and she's at work. The dog hasn't so much as growled at me, another person, or another dog as long as I've known him. But I'll routinely get nipped at, or have to separate someone else's shih tzu or lhasa apso from him when we walk in leash-free parks.

And with the owners of those dogs, they find that perfectly acceptable, since their dogs don't have the bite pressure to break bones - never mind possible infection from puncture wounds on my hands and ankles, or the pants I've had to take in for repair.

" So, mike probably just didn't read his handbook on what not to do as a black star."

Oh, sorry then. He gets a pass for not reading the book then.

Really sorry about that.

SchlingFo: They're strong dogs and, in the case of Rotts, can outweigh most women.

When you couple this with the fact that they're the dog of choice for ghetto and trailer trash who get them and abuse them to try and make them into violent dogs, you're going to have lots of really nasty attacks.

If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Obviously environment plays a fairly substantial role in mammalian behavior. That point is not in debate. I'm only citing facts based on statistical research. The conclusion is inescapable for obvious reasons.

It is unfortunate that most debates over issues delve into the emotional side of the spectrum based more on personal opinions and/or experiences rather than the scientific method of researching the facts.

miseducated

Or the 17 weeks of rabies shots. At most my dog sniffs their asses. People freak out, OH NOEZ a PIT BULL!!!one22! I mean people act like these dogs are just looking for something to maim, maul or eat. There was a pit running around my neighborhood, she was pretty but you could see where her neck was infected and her collar was growing into it. At the first sight of a person she bolted. I tried to catch her and I called the SPCA because her neck was nasty but she was too timid. I don't know what happened to her.

Bonkthat_Again

I think what Vick did to those animals is reprehensible, and should be punished. That being said, in answer to your question:
Seriously, what's it going to take for the Black man to condemn another black man for his actions? Us white folks toss other white folks under the bus everyday.

The short answer is "When Black Men are treated as equals in this society and this nation." We all know that black males are scrutinized much more intensely than any other group... and because of that, tend to do what they can to protect each other, and themselves.
Figure it like this... everyone needs someone to give them the "benefit of the doubt" if accused of something... "innocent until proven guilty" and all that... and they know they will never get it from (most) white people...

Besides, there seems to be something in some people that makes them want members of a particular socio-econimic group to "lash out" at a member of that group that has done wrong... like how people harassed (and still do) members of the Muslim community for not protesting in the streets after september 11, 2001, waving banners and shouting "U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" When asked why they did not do so, most often a quote from scripture was used... "Am I my brother's keeper?" They did not not participate in or have knowledge of the attacks before they occured, yet were seen as responsible for them - almost as responsible as the hijackers who did it.

What Michael Vick did, Michael Vick did. I, nor anyone else is responsible or liable for what Michael Vick did. He is an adult and deserves whatever punishment he recieves, even if that means the loss of his career or jail time. But don't try to put some fake guilt trip on Black people because we're not marching with PETA.

Gwendolyn

Humans kill shiat all the time because it suits them. I just really don't see the difference.

Your newsletter... give to me....

rewind2846

The short answer is "When Black Men are treated as equals in this society and this nation." We all know that black males are scrutinized much more intensely than any other group... and because of that, tend to do what they can to protect each other, and themselves.

Ask his snitching, finger pointing, black buddies about that..?

Philbb

I don't really care for animals at all. But I didn't want to see my dog have to go to a shelter. I knew he was a great dog and felt compassion for him. So I took him in. I would have done the same for a mutt or any other animal with such a great personality that he possesses. I can see and feel his appreciation everyday.

Bonkthat_Again: You can't train out an aggressive gene. You can bury that trait through good training, but you can never predict what combination of events will unleash the aggression, or when.

Owning a pit bull is like living with unexploded WWII ordinance in your back yard. It may seem safe, but you'll never know.

I almost forgot who I was discussing this issue with, until that comment. I really shouldn't be all that surprised at you digging a trench behind yourself with hyperbole, and leaping into it.

The black community really needs to redistribute their microphones.

WTF?

When Rush Limbaugh makes a complete ass of himself with his tirades against Barack Obama, Darfur, and Donovan McNabb, would it even be sane, much less reasonable, for me to make the comment "White people really need to redistribute their microphones?"

F*ck. Jamie Foxx exercises his 1st Amendment right, and it's somehow everyone else's responsibility to make sure he stops saying stupid things.

I bet submitter is like damn only going to showbiz page but then this biatch has flamed up to almost a 100 comments. Your job here is done submitter.

Bonkthat_Again: The focus of this discussion is centered around "Pit Bulls" associated with dogfighting. These dogs are often cross bred with other aggressive breeds like Rotties. The dogs used in dogfighting have no AKC or UKC classification, as they are simply aggressive mutts. It's unfortunate, and ignorant that they bear the name "Pit Bull".

And because of those mutts used in dogfights, I am not allowed to purchase, breed, or import a genuine Staffordshire Terrier or American Pit Bull in the province of Ontario. People don't make the fine distinction that you're making, and resolve to ban any breed called or associated with Pit Bulls.

Chiggity Chza
Ask his snitching, finger pointing, black buddies about that..?

Notice I said "TEND TO". The human psyche is a highly variable thing, and so is human decision making, especially when self-preservation comes into play. His 'buddies' decided differently, probably to save themselves.

So is Foxx saying we should keep all of the dogs away from colored folk?

miseducated

"White people really need to redistribute their microphones?"

The difference is, you are 100% correct, we do need to redistribute our microphones. You see the asshats we give the microphones to. Not only do these asshats make white people look stupid but black people too because these are the fools we "elect" into office. Some one from an outside perspective perceive Americans (usually represented by white asshat) as asshats because of the asshat who has the microphone.

/word for the day asshats

Chiggity Chza:

There is another pagent thread in need of your attendence

The argument that dog fighting is no worse than horse and/or dog racing is a reasonably asinine one. If we are generous and make an admittedly blanket statement to the effect of "dogs are equal to people", then dog fighting would be something akin to forcing retarded people to fight each other to the death. That's right, folks, retard-fighting. It's all the rage amongst would-be NFL stars.

/and you there, in the corner, stop your snickering...

overlord_mike

Damn another one. That poor stupid biatch. I feel sorry for her mama.

GoodasGold

Now, that is first hand cruelty to animals

chaos731

Retard fighting sounds like a great idea. Have you ever noticed how strong retards are? I bet there would be some bloody battles. Would you just poke them with a stick to piss them off or what?

*sigh* Yeah all the of animals that are killed daily burning down the rain forests so McDonald's can have cheap hamburgers is just fine.

McDonalds buys locally produced beef. Always have.

Hey Jamie,

1) You have a girl's name. Change it.

2) You haven't done shiat since Ray (or before it).

3) You can't sing.

4) Go fark yourself.


Regards,

Cubsfan07

Chiggity Chza, see, the thing is, I find that stupid people tend to be first ones up on the soapbox. I try to pay as little attention as I can to the words of stupid people. Most smart people understand this as well. If stupid people pay attention to other stupid people, there's nothing I or anyone else can do about that. Expecting me to associate with stupid people by curbing their speech, is a stupid thing to ask for.

Yet another non white defending his actions and making rationalizations out of their ass, not really understanding all the charges against Vick, and how the actual dog fighting is probably the least of said charges.

Why do I only hear these rationalizations from blacks? Am I just not reading the right stories? Are their white people saying stupid ass things like Deion, Clinton and now Jamie?

Why is it all about the color of the skin of the criminal for them?

Action Replay Nick: Horse fighting would be awesome.

Bonkthat_Again
Have you ever seen the living conditions of race horses? Some of them live better than most humans.

That's all fine and dandy until the horse breaks a leg and is sent off to the glue factory.

Hate to de-rail your Troller Coaster, but horses that break legs OUTSIDE of horse racing are often put down as well, for a fairly practical reason. Treatment to properly heal some major fractures is EXTREMELY expensive and time-consuming, things that your average horse owner probably can't afford. It's cold, I know, but sometimes you have to put your family above your horse. My family has owned horses all our life, and have been lucky enough that none have them have had to suffer a leg fracture. It would've torn me apart to have to make that decision. Horses don't have health insurance, my friend.

NukeTheGayWhales: Old and busted: Dogfighting
New hotness: Tortoise wrestling


dude uh, I am not sure they're rastlin .

Bonkthat_Again: Media: Michael Vick is accused of some bad shiat
White People: Really?
Famous Black People with an interest in the well-being of other famous black people: Really?
Media: The feds have tons of evidence.
White People: Fark him.
NAACP: Innocent until proven guilty
Famous Black People with an interest in the well-being other famous black people: Innocent until proven guilty

You heard me say that Vick deserves whatever he gets.

Where is your grandiose theory now?

I tried to read this thread but the troll population is so outspoken today.

/begin rant

Wait, I'm confused. Are we pointlessly arguing about race relations or the virtues/pitfalls of various dog breeds?

FACT: All people, regardless of race, begin life with the same potential for greatness (including great failure) based on several factors such as environment, personalities, talents and the choices we make. (How many people have pulled themselves from obscurity to success in their respective fields over the history of humanity?)

FACT: All people, regardless of race, have the potential to make some of the most boneheaded decisions and say some of the stupidest things ever uttered. It's not a white or black issue, it's a HUMAN issue.

FACT: Race relations will NEVER improve in the world until everyone comes to grips with the reality that we are all in this together. That seems to be an impossible dream in light of current national and global events.

I believe what Dr. King was so eloquently attempting to educate the masses on was along these lines when his life was extinguished by someone filled with more emotion than rationale and/or intelligence.

I have often wondered when the collective body of humanity will pay closer attention to the color of the blood they are so hellbent on spilling instead of the pigmentation of the flesh.

I long for the day...

/thus endeth the rant

Bonkthat_Again:

Yes. The correct response when someone quotes Limbaugh is, "Why the F*ck are you listening to that douche?"

Heh. Touché.

I have a dream where we aren't judged (or pardoned) by the color of our skin but by the evidence supporting the indictment.

I think I know what subby was going for with that headline but what Foxx said, really didn't indicate race that much.

Bonkthat_Again

Why did the NAACP put race into the equation?
As a white guy, this pisses me off. I never thought of race UNTIL THEY MENTIONED IT. Then, it pisses me off further to see people defend Vick SIMPLY BECAUSE HE'S BLACK.

See, this is what happens when people don't read the posts they respond to. Let's try that again...

We all know that black males are scrutinized much more intensely than any other group... and because of that, tend to do what they can to protect each other, and themselves.
Figure it like this... everyone needs someone to give them the "benefit of the doubt" if accused of something... "innocent until proven guilty" and all that... and they know they will never get it from (most) white people...

This is my quote. Everyone under our current system of "justice" is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Unfortunately, there are some white people who believe he is guilty before the trial, before the hearing, before anything. In this case, the NAACP was the one to give him that "benefit of the doubt" he didn't get from whites...

I'll stop being racist when people stop aspiring to become stupid stereotypes.

cubsfan07: Hey Jamie,

1) You have a girl's name. Change it.

2) You haven't done shiat since Ray (or before it).

3) You can't sing.

4) Go fark yourself.


Regards,

Cubsfan07

actually, he can sing.
and play a fine piano.

Bonkthat_Again
Also from me:
What Michael Vick did, Michael Vick did. I, nor anyone else is responsible or liable for what Michael Vick did. He is an adult and deserves whatever punishment he recieves, even if that means the loss of his career or jail time.

Now how ya like that?

yea he admitted to killing these dogs by drowning or hanging

notice how the mention of gunplay seems to have vanished, I am guessing it was part of the plea bargain?

Either way Vic should be jailed and unemployed. Maybe when he gets out he could go hang with O.J.

"It's a cultural thing, I think," Jamie said.

Is this the same culture that gave us rap music. Methinks its time to look at that "culture" and much like the culture in the petri dish, find a little anti-biotic.

Culture is NOT the same thing as skin color, or for that matter, race. All cultures have bad elements as well as good. The culture of the African (or African/American) has a rich history of wonderful things and people, but all we get out of it is inhumane dog fighting and crap today. The worst of it, rather than the far more vast greatness it has to offer. And by offering up and promoting the worst a culture has to offer and rationalizing this lame excuse for a human (and I don't even care much about animals beyond my dinner plate) really doesn't speak well for your own view of your 'culture'. Pity my view of it is so much better than yours.

I weep (well, I would if I were a caring person instead of a heartless bastard) for the good lives wasted following this lowest part of a 'culture' down the path to destruction rather than its rich traditions up the walk of life.

Thanks, Jamie - I haven't posted this in a few days:



No caption required.

Damn people, they're just dogs get over it already.

Dog fightingting is animal torture.

I'd like to see him and Miss Teen South Carolina have a debate on this issue.

Bonkthat_Again

Correct me if i'm wrong, but you're condoning an interest in well-being for someone of the same race OVER genuine equality?

You can't be serious.

You said that BLACK PEOPLE are making excuses for Vick.

I said no, famous black people with an interest in the well-being of other famous black people, (e.g. Jamie Foxx) are the ones making excuses. Your average black person probably couldn't care less about the sufferings of a multimillionaire athlete. Your average black person probably thinks that, if the facts bear out, Vick deserves whatever the justice system throws at him.

The circle of famous and successful black people is a very tight knit one. I did not condone this.

I presented this fact as it was; if you can't understand why famous black people will come to the defense of other famous black people (Because those same defenders may find themselves in need of defense one day), then I've really got nothing else to offer you.

rewind2846: This is my quote. Everyone under our current system of "justice" is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Unfortunately, there are some white people who believe he is guilty before the trial, before the hearing, before anything. In this case, the NAACP was the one to give him that "benefit of the doubt" he didn't get from whites...

Yeah, but the NAACP is a organization that only steps up to help or assist people based on their race. They are a racist organization.

MDGeist: Damn people, they're just dogs get over it already.

Many people say the same thing about children when they sell them into slavery in Asia.

Why not just accept that it's wrong to be wantonly cruel to people and animals?

Unright: Yeah, but the NAACP is a organization that only steps up to help or assist people based on their race.

Wilful ignorance is a very poor argumentative technique, kiddo.

rewind2846: Unfortunately, there are some white people who believe he is guilty before the trial, before the hearing, before anything. In this case, the NAACP was the one to give him that "benefit of the doubt" he didn't get from whites...

I believe he was guilty before trial in the same way I believed Ken Lay was guilty before he went to trial.

It had nothing to do with race and everything to do with the rats jumping the sinking ship.

NikolaiFarkoff
Cultural respect, okay...but cultural relativism is crap, IMO.

Cultural relativism is not the same as moral relativism, you moron. You must come from a very backward culture.

Chiggity Chza: onecanshort

Actually, when they are moved to a stud farm there is no farking, with prized animals it is all done artificially, so it is just hand jobs and frolicking

Not true, at least in thoroughbred racing. It has to be done au naturel or not at all.

Chiggity Chza: Watchman
They get Fark accounts?!

I said hand jobs and frolicking, not ass raping and ridicule

ROFL!

Bonkthat_Again: You are correct, Jamie Foxx is an ass. So is Michael Vick.

So is any sheep that blathers that this is a race issue, or tries to deflate the horror of dogfighting with comparisons to the fate of greyhound race dogs. It wouldn't matter if any of these people were green with purple polka dots or a newly come alien from Triguna-9, the fact that these people are flapping their jaws stupidly and doing stupid-assed, illegal things has absolutely nothing to do with what color they are. Stupid assholes.

//so farkin tired of the race card
///stupidity is stupidity, cruelty is cruelty, no matter the source
/farkin stupid people

Cultural thing? I'm German....maybe my "culture" from the 40's should come back to take care of this issue?

;)

EdMon: I love how people are TOTALLY ok with the violence of the human meat grinder that is football but are up in arms as soon as a puppy dies.


If you hate dog fighting, you should hate football.

People choose to be trained to play football. Dogs do not choose to be trained to fight.

Diogenes: The extent that people are willing to go to forgive him is really sad. But Foxx has a valid point here:

That's a load of horseshiat. On what farking planet is that a valid point? Is it fair that some criminals/murderers/rapists don't get caught, or get caught and don't get punished for whatever reason? Hell no it's not fair. But that's just the way it is. It is completely inaccurate and ignorant on Foxx's part to compare Vick's crime to any crime committed by anyone else. It's like a child complaining that it's not fair another child got more presents than they did. It's a ridiculous and specious argument. Vick got caught taking pleasure in the mistreatment, maiming, torturing, and murder of innocent animals, animals who could not defend themselves.

Vick is a thug. He's a thug, and a waste of DNA. He is a thug who has nothing of greater value to give to society other than being able to throw a football and run fast. He is an ignorant, uneducated, and unenlightened person who lacks something most creatures in the world have: compassion for God's creatures, especially those who can't defend themselves. Can you imagine that? Really imagine that? The dogs can't fight well, or lost a fight, and suddenly they have no value to him? Not as a companion, not as a pet, not as a comfort? And therefore their life is worth nothing to him?

I could almost understand, if not condone, Vick's behavior were the circumstances different. If the dog had mercilessly attacked Vick, and her were forced to defend himself, then by all means kill the goddamned thing. Or, if Vick were somehow in a terrible, unrecoverable situation where he had to make a choice between starving to death, or killing and eating one of the dogs, then too, could I as well understand. But, this is NOT the case.

I hope he goes to jail for the full sentence. I hope he loses his job. If he does play football again, I hope at the very most it's for the CFL or some other BS league like that.

That's about the most euphemistic I can put the way I feel about Vick.

I'm gonna start smoking weed more, due to my dutch/canuck heritage.

/get high
//eat poutine
///wash rinse repeat

Bonkthat_Again: "It's a cultural thing, I think," Jamie said. "Most brothers didn't know that, you know."

Um, you know what else is cultural, Jamie? Racism. Lots and lots and lots and LOTS of people were raised to believe people with darker skin were beneath them. Does that make their beliefs okay, or is racism still wrong?

EdJofJupiter: NukeTheGayWhales: Old and busted: Dogfighting
New hotness: Tortoise wrestling


dude uh, I am not sure they're rastlin .

OMG Really?!?!

Sorry if my post offended, but I wanted everyone to glimpse the backside of that coin Jamie tossed.

VideSupra: People choose to be trained to play football. Dogs do not choose to be trained to fight.

Although, I think being able to drown and electrocute football players would bring some excitement to an otherwise boring ass sport.

rhodabear: glimpse the backside

*fap*

MDGeist: Damn people, they're just dogs get over it already.

Here's to hoping someone chokes, kicks, electrecutes, drowns, and starves you to death. After all, you're just a human. We'll get over it.

/seriously, the fact that people actually have your attitude is disgusting

ftfy, cpux

I'm constantly disappointed when stuff like this happens. Ron Mexico is a guy to did something illegal. That is as simple as that until the race card gets thrown around all willy nilly (sp? never had to spell that before). Now all of a sudden he's getting "screwed" by the "man" (who the hell is this man I keep hearing about?). He's a dumbass that got caught doing something he shouldn't have. He can have all the legal fun he wants and he chooses to get involved in something like this...

/i'm sure i had a point, it was just around here somewhere...

miseducated: Wilful ignorance is a very poor argumentative technique, kiddo.

I wasn't arguing. I was asserting.

How is this racist? It is certainly stupid.

And I call shenanigans of Foxx's bs. I grew up just as poor and black as him and dogfighting wasn't something at all common or that I had even heard of.

Gwendolyn: *sigh* Yeah all the of animals that are killed daily burning down the rain forests so McDonald's can have cheap hamburgers is just fine.


I think that someone already pointed out that this is false, but it is. Locally produced beef is what they purchase, it's far more economical than shipping it across the sea.


They then kill 10 million cows a year by shooting them in the head with a bolt and/or cutting their throat and bleeding them to death.

The displacement of wildlife and their slow deaths to put up new housing developments that's OK too, but dogs OH HELL NO!

Humans kill shiat all the time because it suits them. I just really don't see the difference.


I do see a difference. I know I'm going to catch flak for the source from some folks, but Jonah Goldberg from NRO really said it better than I could in this excerpt from his online column (new window) the other day:

And I do love dogs. They are, evolutionarily and otherwise, man's partners, our wingmen - winghounds if you prefer. Dogs are the only animal to choose to be our friends and comrades in the great struggle of muddling through our turn on this mortal coil. (Cats, I'm sorry to say, hold one paw in each camp so as to forever keep their options open, and all other domesticated animals had to be forced into the arrangement.).

What we see most clearly in dogs are precisely the things we as human beings wish to see in ourselves: loyalty, joy, love, home, family, commitment, humor, and an utter disregard for the pieties and pretenses of fashionable life. ("If you take a dog which is starving and feed him and make him prosperous," Mark Twain observed, "that dog will not bite you. This is the primary difference between a dog and a man.") My dog cares not that he is beautiful, that he is rich, that he is prized. All he cares about is that he is loved and that he has someone to love back. And if that someone happens to have a piece of ham behind his back, well, he's no fool either.

Indeed, as many have noted, dogs look to us as we look to God. Even Ambrose Bierce, a great cynic, defined "reverence" as "the spiritual attitude of a man to a god and a dog to a man."

This helps us understand why finding joy in cruelty to animals is horrific. Torturing a dog or a cat for sport is not disgusting because animals have rights, it is repugnant because human beings have obligations. If animals look to us as gods, and we in turn torture them for our amusement, have we not willingly made ourselves into devils?

Dogfighting in particular is grotesque because in it we reject all that is lovable about dogs in favor of all that is animalistic. We exploit canine loyalty and trust, stripping away the joy like so much bark in order to make dogs more fearsome than even wild animals. No wolf or coyote could stand up to one of Michael Vick's pit bulls, nor do wolves and coyotes have anything like that kind of bloodlust.

miseducated: SchlingFo: If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Exactly. Labs, Golden Retrievers, Collies, and Great Danes have a worse temperament than pit bull terriers. Dalmatians are particularly nasty, and don't get along well with children.


Stats pls!

I just posted to say that there is FAR more stupid in this thread then is usual. It's like this is bringing the morons out of the woodwork like honey on an anthill.

First you have the extreme left wing morons that believe that animal racing, rodeo and even raising animals for food is the same as dogfighting and therefore should be illigal. farking stupid.

Then you have the extreme right wing assholes who say that dogfighting is no different then horseracing, rodeo etc and should therefore be legalized. More stupid.

Clarification for the idiots:

Horseracing, rodeo etc = a sport where injuries and death is an ACCIDENT, meaning it is unintended and there are actual attempts to prevent injury. Much like football, hockey and other rough sporting activities except these use animals. The world isn't a cuddly safe foam wrapped place. shiat happens and the world would suck if everything was as safe as these pussies who complain about the injuries wanted it to be.

Dogfighting = a sport where the death of one of the competitors is the desired outcome. Very much like a the old gladitorial arena except with dogs. In this case dogs were even killed BEFORE they had a chance to fight because they weren't "worthy"

There is a HUGE farking difference.

Curly Howard-

Tigger, please. There's NO FLIPPIN' WAY those dogs have a worse temperament. I would speculate there are more labs and retrievers than any other breed of dog in the home by a far cry and I can't remember the last time I heard about a lab attacking someone.

/Unless you count the UNIA my dog occasionally gives me in the morning.
//Unsolicited Nose in the A*us

Curly Howard: miseducated: SchlingFo: If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Exactly. Labs, Golden Retrievers, Collies, and Great Danes have a worse temperament than pit bull terriers. Dalmatians are particularly nasty, and don't get along well with children.


Stats pls!

If you're truly interested in learning about different breeds and their temperaments, you'll look up the appropriate AKC information yourself.

We're not here to do your research for you.

I didn't want to say it...but I want to win!

mongbiohazard:
And I do love dogs. They are, evolutionarily and otherwise, man's partners, our wingmen - winghounds if you prefer. Dogs are the only animal to choose to be our friends and comrades in the great struggle of muddling through our turn on this mortal coil. (Cats, I'm sorry to say, hold one paw in each camp so as to forever keep their options open, and all other domesticated animals had to be forced into the arrangement.).

What we see most clearly in dogs are precisely the things we as human beings wish to see in ourselves: loyalty, joy, love, home, family, commitment, humor, and an utter disregard for the pieties and pretenses of fashionable life. ("If you take a dog which is starving and feed him and make him prosperous," Mark Twain observed, "that dog will not bite you. This is the primary difference between a dog and a man.") My dog cares not that he is beautiful, that he is rich, that he is prized. All he cares about is that he is loved and that he has someone to love back. And if that someone happens to have a piece of ham behind his back, well, he's no fool either.

Indeed, as many have noted, dogs look to us as we look to God. Even Ambrose Bierce, a great cynic, defined "reverence" as "the spiritual attitude of a man to a god and a dog to a man."

This helps us understand why finding joy in cruelty to animals is horrific. Torturing a dog or a cat for sport is not disgusting because animals have rights, it is repugnant because human beings have obligations. If animals look to us as gods, and we in turn torture them for our amusement, have we not willingly made ourselves into devils?

Dogfighting in particular is grotesque because in it we reject all that is lovable about dogs in favor of all that is animalistic. We exploit canine loyalty and trust, stripping away the joy like so much bark in order to make dogs more fearsome than even wild animals. No wolf or coyote could stand up to one of Michael Vick's pit bulls, nor do wolves and coyotes have anything like that kind of bloodlust.

That's all that needs to be said about the subject, EVAR. If you disagree with it or find fault in it, you're trying WAY too hard to be hated. You'd be better off just taking the easy way out and openly hating minorities to get the kind of hate you crave. There's just no other way to put it. I mean, even Fred Phelps would agree with that if it was being read by a gay man.

SchlingFo: Why not just accept that it's wrong to be wantonly cruel to people and animals?

I really like the way you phrased that.

Unright

I wasn't arguing. I was asserting.

Then your assertion proves your ignorance of history and cultural studies.

Curly Howard

Stats pls!

Go fishing with Google for "Dog breed temperament" and tell me what you come up with.

The only arguable portion of what I said, would be that said that pit bulls have a better temperament than Labs. Some kennels agree, some disagree. But pit bulls consistently test higher than collies, golden retreivers, and dalmatians.

onecanshort: Yeah because when Rex Grossman throws up a hail mary that gets picked off, Lovie Smith runs out onto the field and beats him into submission with a cattle prod.

you know, I might actually watch football if stuff like that happened more often...

Peesambobo: I didn't want to say it...but I want to win!

ditto

kingMountain: i'm all for getting rid of horse/dog racing and especially the horse vs dog races they show on ESPN 2.

The WNBA?

EdMon: I love how people are TOTALLY ok with the violence of the human meat grinder that is football but are up in arms as soon as a puppy dies.


If you hate dog fighting, you should hate football.

That's almost the most blatantly stupid and ignorant thing I've ever read. I say almost, because I'm sure you've still got plenty of time left in your life to come up with something even more painfully idiotic.

SchlingFo: Curly Howard: miseducated: SchlingFo: If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Exactly. Labs, Golden Retrievers, Collies, and Great Danes have a worse temperament than pit bull terriers. Dalmatians are particularly nasty, and don't get along well with children.


Stats pls!

If you're truly interested in learning about different breeds and their temperaments, you'll look up the appropriate AKC information yourself.

We're not here to do your research for you.

Never said I was interested in learning about the different breeds. I've owned lots of different breeds. I just would like to know how the hell you expect me to believe that labs, goldens...ect have a worse temperment than pit bulls.

//your smoke blowing...it's not working

You got your racism in my animal rights thread!

No, you got your animal rights in my racism thread!

Two great tastes that taste good together.

/thinks anybody who eats factory-farmed meat and biatches about dog-fighting is a hypocrite.
//if the quality of life of Vick's dogs is important to you, why isn't the quality of life of the animals you eat important?

onwmed: kingMountain: i'm all for getting rid of horse/dog racing and especially the horse vs dog races they show on ESPN 2.

The WNBA?

I lol'd, but I feel bad about it.

/Did you tell them about the fundamentals!?

Action Replay Nick proves over and over that is is a moron.

ginger ninja: I really like the way you phrased that.

I'm a realistic enough person to admit that we're always going to engage in actions that can be considered cruel and may inflict pain on animals.

But, we can work to keep it to a minimum and recognize that unncecessary and/or excessive cruelty should be illegal.

SchlingFo: Curly Howard: miseducated: SchlingFo: If Mastiffs were popular with the ghetto and trailer trash for fighting, you'd see Mastiffs accounting for an inordinately large number of serious attacks on people.

Exactly. Labs, Golden Retrievers, Collies, and Great Danes have a worse temperament than pit bull terriers. Dalmatians are particularly nasty, and don't get along well with children.


Stats pls!

If you're truly interested in learning about different breeds and their temperaments, you'll look up the appropriate AKC information yourself.

We're not here to do your research for you.

From my research and experience (which is admittedly limited, but probably better than most people in this thread) with different breeds, I am calling BS on the bolded phrase above. It is miseducated's job to back up his controversial statement if he wants people to take him seriously.

mooseyfate: That's almost the most blatantly stupid and ignorant thing I've ever read. I say almost, because I'm sure you've still got plenty of time left in your life to come up with something even more painfully idiotic.

Well done, sir.

I see where subby was going, and give him props for a good headline. It was destined to breakout into a flamewar, no matter how it was phrased.

Oh, and where was the "I like where this thread is heading" pic? That was perfect for this one.

Curly Howard: I just would like to know how the hell you expect me to believe that labs, goldens...ect have a worse temperment than pit bulls.

Like I said, read up on the AKC literature regarding the temperaments of different breeds.

Of course, since you said this:

Never said I was interested in learning about the different breeds.

it's pretty obvious that you don't really want an answer to your question.

This: You got your racism in my animal rights thread!

No, you got your animal rights in my racism thread!

Two great tastes that taste good together.

/thinks anybody who eats factory-farmed meat and biatches about dog-fighting is a hypocrite.
//if the quality of life of Vick's dogs is important to you, why isn't the quality of life of the animals you eat important?

Well lets see. We kill animals to provide meat so that we can eat and get all of our nutrients. We don't pit the cows against one another in a fight to the death for our entertainment. The same way we don't eat the loser of the dogfighting bout. Why do people still choose to wave this blatantly ignorant viewpoint around like a farking flag on Mount Iwo Jima?

If you can't understand that extremely crucial point of the debate, you've got nothing to contribute.

mooseyfate: Well lets see. We kill animals to provide meat so that we can eat and get all of our nutrients. We don't pit the cows against one another in a fight to the death for our entertainment. The same way we don't eat the loser of the dogfighting bout. Why do people still choose to wave this blatantly ignorant viewpoint around like a farking flag on Mount Iwo Jima?

If you can't understand that extremely crucial point of the debate, you've got nothing to contribute.

We don't need to kill the animals - we're perfectly capable of living quite well as vegetarians. Likewise, we don't need to make their lives miserable - we're just too cheap to farm them without abusing them.

If free-range, conscientious ranching was the standard instead of the exception, I might agree with you. But it's not, so I don't. We eat abused animals for recreation, and so people who abuse animals for other forms of recreation don't look all that different to me.

SchlingFo: Curly Howard: I just would like to know how the hell you expect me to believe that labs, goldens...ect have a worse temperment than pit bulls.

Like I said, read up on the AKC literature regarding the temperaments of different breeds.

Of course, since you said this:

Never said I was interested in learning about the different breeds.

it's pretty obvious that you don't really want an answer to your question.


You are the one that made the statement, shouldn't you provide the backing for such statement?.

rhodabear: Cultural thing? I'm German....maybe my "culture" from the 40's should come back to take care of this issue?



You know whose other culture from the 40s would have taken care of this issue?

Oh, wait...

Jamie is just saying this to keep himself in the good graces of the homeboyz. He knows that by doing this he'll be given a pass when he's outed to be a pole smoker.

rewind2846:
What Michael Vick did, Michael Vick did. I, nor anyone else is responsible or liable for what Michael Vick did. He is an adult and deserves whatever punishment he recieves, even if that means the loss of his career or jail time. But don't try to put some fake guilt trip on Black people because we're not marching with PETA.

Except, part of his excuse was "it's cultural" and "i didn't know it was wrong" (which is what the "i am immature" thing really means).

Why the bloody fark these people can't beg for quarters and go play video games with them for entertainment instead of maiming some poor animal, I don't know.

I guess I don't know maybe it's because MY farkING CULTURE IS NOT A BUNCH OF SAVAGE ASSHOLES!

Go back to Africa if you want a nation without modern humanitarian laws.

/You can take the punk out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the punk without a lobotomy. Crack is just too slow.

rewind2846:
Figure it like this... everyone needs someone to give them the "benefit of the doubt" if accused of something... "innocent until proven guilty" and all that... and they know they will never get it from (most) white people...


Right....like Rev Al and Uncle Jesse and their ilk gave to those Duke LaCrosse players....right?

/Still waiting for a retraction
//""His crime is, it was a dog," White said."
///Bunch of a$$hat$

Bonkthat_Again: MDGeist: Damn people, they're just dogs get over it already.

Do you own a dog?

People underestimate their intelligence. They have emotions too.

What was done to these dogs, the Bush administration would call torture. What this group did ammoral by the standards of many socities.

This: Likewise, we don't need to make their lives miserable - we're just too cheap to farm them without abusing them.

But that broken spirit makes their meat much more tender. I mean, have you had some veal lately? Hot damn! Good eatin'.
/farm hand as a teen
//never abused an animal
///unless it was just asking for it

What the hell is wrong with you people? Every famous nubian that gets arrested is not Nelson Mandela! Yes the government conspires to put a lot of innocent black men in jail on fallacious charges, but R. Kelly Michael Vick is not one of those men! We all know the nubian can singplay sports reasonably well! But what happened to standards? What happened to bare minimums? You a fan of R. KellyMichael Vick? You wanna help R. KellyMichael Vick? Then get some counseling for R. KellyMichael Vick!

/ Shamelessly stolen from "The Boondocks"
// "The Trial of R.Kelly"
/// Seemed appropriate

My dog's breath smells like snausages.

Wow, that's a shock coming from the mouth of Jamie Foxx. For me, at least.

I've always respected Foxx as an intelligent, charismatic, and talented celebrity. Shame he has to go and play the "black" card to defend a guy who really doesn't deserve defending.

Now watch as 50,000 other Farkers call my post racist.

Bonkthat_Again: rewind2846: Everyone under our current system of "justice" is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Not in the court of Public Opinion, where the NAACP decided to enter the fray. 99% of the people against Vick merely had to hear the atrocities happened on his property to make up their minds.

In this case, the NAACP was the one to give him that "benefit of the doubt" he didn't get from whites...

Like Duke Lacrosse?

oh snap

/yea, I went there

This: We don't need to kill the animals - we're perfectly capable of living quite well as vegetarians. Likewise, we don't need to make their lives miserable - we're just too cheap to farm them without abusing them.

If free-range, conscientious ranching was the standard instead of the exception, I might agree with you. But it's not, so I don't. We eat abused animals for recreation, and so people who abuse animals for other forms of recreation don't look all that different to me.

I just KNEW you were going to bring up the whole "b-b-but, vegetarianism!" thing, so I'll ignore it because that's a whole different debate that's in no way related to the story at hand. As for the second part of your post, I'll refer you to Schling-Fo's response to ginger ninja. Meat production is a multi-billion dollar business. Multi-billion dollar businesses have a nasty habit of throwing morality out of the window and side-stepping naysayers with teams of well-paid lawyers. My original statement still stands. Killing dogs for entertainment and pleasure is NOT the same as slaughtering cows for consumption.

You can try to slant it to make it sound like a horrible and terrible thing, but when you look at the state of countries that DON'T have a meat industry or a government willing to provide them with one, it tends to put things in perspective. Bottom line is, Cows provide a very important place in the food chain, one of which has always been food. Dogs also provide a very important place in the food chain, which is NOT being beaten and tortured to death. Condoning the actions of the dogfighters because of the actions of the meat industry is not only childish, it's immoral. But that's just my opinion.

onecanshort: Gwendolyn: onecanshort: Not only is it more humane for ANY horse with a leg injury to be put down, but in racing, that doesn't happen. Racehorses are expensive and are a big investment, owners see to it to get injuries fixed if they can.
onecanshort

Actually, when they are moved to a stud farm there is no farking, with prized animals it is all done artificially, so it is just hand jobs and frolicking

Still, nice way to retire.

Two things:

Thoroughbreds must be naturally bred for the foal to be registered. No hand jobs for them. Other breeds use AI, but not all stallions' sperm travels well; some do much better live.

Two, we had a colt with a broken leg. After surgery, stall rest and massive liposuction on our bank account, he's fine & ready to start under saddle.

ginger ninja

It is miseducated's job to back up his controversial statement if he wants people to take him seriously.

There is no uniform body on testing dog temperaments; AKC and UKC, that I know of, don't judge temperament using numbers and statistics. ATTS, on the other hand, does. You'll find, if you look up any dog that I mentioned, that all of them except Labs place lower than the American Pit Bull Terrier and Staffordshire Terrier. As I already said; that's still under dispute.

Or, like SchlingFo said, do your own research.

Curly Howard: You are the one that made the statement, shouldn't you provide the backing for such statement?.

Maybe if I were defending a dissertation.

On Fark? If you just want to argue, chances are nothing's going to change your mind. If you're truly interested in learning, you'll research it on your own.

So, no.

Crewmannumber6: One thing Mr. Vick did have that most of do not, black, white, or other, is an agent and at LEAST one lawyer who WORK FOR HIM that he could have sought out and asked "this what I am doing, am I open to any risk by doing it?". Risk management is key to any business.

He is 27 years old, a (cough, cough) college graduate, and a professional at his job. He is a full grown man, responsible for his actions. Treat him as such.

QFT. Most of us are bound by laws that we are incapable of getting the advice to understand or reasonably understanding ourselves (unless we changed professions - and a world of lawyers is not one I want to live in). Vick had to know that this would be illegal - at the very leasts for gambling reasons - thus, Foxx's point where he didn't realize it was a felony is silly (TFA makes it sound like Foxx thought it was just a minor misdemeanor or something). Vick could've asked a lawyer.

luckybob343: What the hell is wrong with you people? Every famous nubian that gets arrested is not Nelson Mandela! Yes the government conspires to put a lot of innocent black men in jail on fallacious charges, but R. Kelly Michael Vick is not one of those men! We all know the nubian can singplay sports reasonably well! But what happened to standards? What happened to bare minimums? You a fan of R. KellyMichael Vick? You wanna help R. KellyMichael Vick? Then get some counseling for R. KellyMichael Vick!

/ Shamelessly stolen from "The Boondocks"
// "The Trial of R.Kelly"
/// Seemed appropriate

This, goddamnit, this
That's where i wanted my point to go. I would've done so but I had to sneak some work in, mgmt is looking.

Action Replay Nick: It's really no different from horseracing or dog racing from an ethical standpoint.

apparently nobody has bothered to point out the fact that in horse/dog racing the animals are not out to kill or maim each other like in dogfighting.

there is a BIG farking difference. The treatment of the racing animals in some cases may be considered abuse but the sport itself is not.

Anybody know what Miss South Carolina's view is on the issue?

I had to quit listening to sports talk radio because it was making me racist. You wouldn't believe the ignorant black a-holes that call up in Atlanta who think Vick's getting hosed. Dany Heatley killed someone in a wreck! Hunters shoot animals all the time! I haven't heard a single dispassionate, rational comment on this from a black member of the media or anyone else they put on TV (I'm giving them a pass on the latter, because I'm guessing the news really does look for the most outlandish characters they can find). Even now that he's entering a plea, he's "gotten railroaded" and "It's time for forgiveness and we should move on." What a brilliant criminal justice system. Don't punish anyone who admits to the crime.

Even last night, the head of the AJC's editorial page (middle age black female) was being interviewed and talked about how it personally and deeply hurt she was over seeing Michael Vick going to jail for this. Really? Really? You're that farking invested in this person you've probably never even met? I love sports, but jesus christ...get a grip.

SchlingFo: Curly Howard: You are the one that made the statement, shouldn't you provide the backing for such statement?.

Maybe if I were defending a dissertation.

On Fark? If you just want to argue, chances are nothing's going to change your mind. If you're truly interested in learning, you'll research it on your own.

So, no.

I can't do the research on my own, cause I'm too busy at my vet's office putting down all those nasty labs, and goldens...

//I bow to you, my new pitbull overloard
//not really

The stupid is thick in this thread...

It's quite obvious that since Vick is a black football star, and since he likes to make dogs fight, dog fighting should be allowed due to cultural differences. To disagree is racist.

Also, racing horses is obviously the same as dog fighting. And if you're against dog fighting, then you should also be against American football. And if you eat meat, and are against dog fighting, you're a hypocrite.

/hope I didn't miss any of the stupid

Chiggity Chza: Anybody know what Miss South Carolina's view is on the issue?

Africa and Asia should help us. Or we are suppost to help them. I am not sure, she is incoherent.

The whole cultural thing is just an excuse to cover up bad behavior. Since the 60's, blacks have been given the ok to excuse their bad behavior because guilty white liberals let them. Now it's common place.

The only reason Vick pleaded guilty is because his posse flipped on him. His lawyer advised him that going to trial would be a mistake and to take a plea. Otherwise Vick would have fought this and played the race card.

nevirus

Yes, you forgot about the Nazis

ReaverZ

Maybe football players had puppies growing up in Africa teh Irak would like the dogs too.

miseducated: Then your assertion proves your ignorance of history and cultural studies.

Yeah, but neither is relevant.

Mugato: Does anyone else think "Foxxhole" sounds like some kind of gay porno or should I speak to my psychiatrist?

I've actually listened to it. Was commuting to the Middle Of Nowhere where the radio stations sucked, and a co-carpooler had a Sirius radio. It's terrible. Sirius's comedy stations are such a wasteland of dreck that they made me miss they halcyon days of Clear-Channel radio.

You know who also fought dogs? Hitler!

/Hitler was a racist too.

Ouch I just sat on my balls: The whole cultural thing is just an excuse to cover up bad behavior. Since the 60's, blacks have been given the ok to excuse their bad behavior because guilty white liberals let them. Now it's common place.

This.

If one person does something stupid/immoral, that person is stupid/immoral. If the majority of a culture tends to carry out a stupid/immoral practice as a cultural trend though, then we have to respect it as their cultural identity and aren't allowed to criticize it, even if it would generally be regarded as stupid/immoral outside of that culture.

Welcome to political correctness. And it holds for a whole lot of ethnic groups and practices, not just this example.

"It's a cultural thing."

So because Jamie saw dogs fighting in his neighborhood, that means it's totally ok to put two dogs together, take bets, and see which gets farked up worse.

Two dogs fighting in the alley =/= two dogs pitted against each other for human entertainment.

Sure they're just dogs. But we're just humans. Which should know better?

Anyone catch Real Time with Bill Maher this weekend? One of his panel guests was the wife of Vick's lawyer. Even she's a dumb c*nt. She acted like Vick didn't commit a crime simply because other worse crimes are being committed.

If that's her logic, then I guess we can go ahead and excuse Al Qaeda for their actions, because it's nothing in comparison to what Hitler did.

Dumb biatch.

This thread will not end well....

My pit bull dropping a vicious shiat

Bonkthat_Again: rewind2846: The short answer is "When Black Men are treated as equals in this society and this nation.

So, before black people treat other black people equally, the rest of the world has to treat black people equally? Is that what you're saying?

But don't try to put some fake guilt trip on Black people because we're not marching with PETA.

Fake guilt trip? Why the fark did the NAACP open their farking mouths in the first place?

Media: Michael Vick is accused of some bad shiat
White People: Really?
Black People: Really?
Media: The feds have tons of evidence.
White People: Fark him.
NAACP: Innocent until proven guilty
Black People: Innocent until proven guilty


Why did the NAACP put race into the equation?
As a white guy, this pisses me off. I never thought of race UNTIL THEY MENTIONED IT. Then, it pisses me off further to see people defend Vick SIMPLY BECAUSE HE'S BLACK. How do you expect racism to go away if you won't let it?

Black,White,Indian,whatever, in the USA you are always innocent till provent guilty. See the Duke rape case.

That being said yeah I saw him as being guilty day one. Vick however only saw it when his posse turned on him.

Other then that nice way to try and make a racist comment with erroneous statements.

FAIL

Tribbles: "It's a cultural thing."

So because Jamie saw dogs fighting in his neighborhood, that means it's totally ok to put two dogs together, take bets, and see which gets farked up worse.

Hell, my family is Irish-American, and my grandfather was a raging alcoholic who wrecked his entire family life. It was socially acceptable for Irish men to be raging drunks at the time. So, by Mr. Foxx's logic, it's OK to be a worthless, abusive drunk, but ONLY if you're of Irish descent. For everybody else, it's wrong. Right?

What a no talent azz-clown

Wytchone: Black,White,Indian,whatever, in the USA you are always innocent till provent guilty. See the Duke rape case.

That being said yeah I saw him as being guilty day one. Vick however only saw it when his posse turned on him.

Other then that nice way to try and make a racist comment with erroneous statements.

FAIL

I agree, but you're lying to yourself if you honestly believe there aren't people out there calling for his acquittal simply because he's black. Unfortunately, you'll be hard-pressed to find a news station brave enough to ask a Vick Supporter, "Do you believe that Vick should be released because he's innocent, or because he's black?". Because there's no doubt whatsover that he's guilty. Which only leaves one...possible...answer...Hmmm....

/this doesn't have to be about race
//as a matter of fact, this SHOULDN'T have anything to do with race
///But people really like to break everything down into Black vs. White

By the way, just to reiterate, I still love Foxx as an actor, and am in no way trying to imply that I now hate him. But he really shot his mouth off here and shouldn't have.

So, mike probably just didn't read his handbook on what not to do as a black star."

Not racist

So, mike probably just didn't read his handbook on what not to do as a black white star."

Racist.

Substitute "child rape" for dog fighting and see if the 'cultural' excuse will work, Jamie.

Just once I'd like to agree with an African American celebrity or leader about a legal issue. Just once.

miseducated: There is no uniform body on testing dog temperaments; AKC and UKC, that I know of, don't judge temperament using numbers and statistics. ATTS, on the other hand, does. You'll find, if you look up any dog that I mentioned, that all of them except Labs place lower than the American Pit Bull Terrier and Staffordshire Terrier. As I already said; that's still under dispute.


And this is where the 2 flamewars combine.

The people taking their dogs in and paying for the test are probably also people who give a shiat about training their dogs. These are not your average pit bulls, and I mean that in a strictly mathematical sense. Backyard breeding really needs to be stopped, especially with breeds like pitts and rotts that have the capacity to inflict a lot of damage.



I can't have a dog at this point in my life, but I am a fan of large breeds and 'sturdy medium' breeds so I actually have done a lot of research on several of the mentioned breeds.

The "research" I have done (real-life experience nonwithstanding) consists of a lot of flipping around in a book of AKC breeds, with charts that rank different variables from 1-5, including 'aggression towards adults, agg. towards children, agg. towards other dogs, behavioral variability, energy, etc. The combination of these factors is what is important. This is a much better system than a Pass or Fail test on what the tester considers to be 'temperament.'


Hell, corgis ranked lower than dalmatians on that damn site. My family is very close to someone who breeds and shows them, my family has owned 4 and fostered several more, so that is definitely my breed of expertise. I've known 1 corgi to flip out and attack someone. I've not had nearly as much experience with dalmatians, but I've had enough to know that I don't want one of the neurotic bastards as a pet.

Not Ok:
Animal Sports, with the fighting ones being the worst of the bunch. Asshat owners who own pit bulls because its "cool".

Ok:
Pitbulls, despite the stories I have yet to meet one that caused any problems. I've had more problems with Minpins.

Even better:

Lets build a coliseum already, Give prison inmates the option to fight. Televise it. Profit.

Stop the animal cruelty already.

Monkey's Knuckle: Just once I'd like to agree with an African American celebrity or leader about a legal issue. Just once.

Just once, I'd like to see a celebrity who farked up NOT give the token celebrity bullshiat "apology".

Next time a celebrity gets caught driving drunk, beating his wife, punching a fan, or whatever, I don't want to hear the fake apology that they always give. You know what I'd like to hear them say?

"Hey, guess what, folks? I'm a gigantic asshole. Usually I get away with it, because I have a shiat-pile of money. I've done it before, and I'll do it again in the future. It just so happens that this time I got caught. So, next time I pull the same shiat, I'll try reeeeaaally hard not to get caught again, because getting busted sure puts a cramp in my style. I'm not sorry for what I did. Oh, and by the way, thanks for all the money".

At least it would be truthful.

Just want to reiterate that with breeding done by the correct people, the dogs that flip out and attack people get the snip.

/I'm done for the day

I am always amazed at our capcity to critcize someone like Jamie Foxx for expressing an opinion. Did he get a PhD in Sociology between movies? Is he now a legal expert? Is he, the star, all of a sudden an expert in the Federal Penal code? Does he even know football above and beyond having played a football player once?

No. He's done none of those things and he certainly is in no position to pretend to comment on this situation. He's just another stiff who happens to live in the spotlight and make a nice chunk of money.

Why stick a microphone in front of him and be shocked by what might be controversial? He is an actor - he makes his living by being eloquent and attracting attention to himself. His opinion is not any more pertinent than anyone else's in this thread. He is a non-issue and his opinions are irrelevant.

mooseyfate:
I agree, but you're lying to yourself if you honestly believe there aren't people out there calling for his acquittal simply because he's black. Unfortunately, you'll be hard-pressed to find a news station brave enough to ask a Vick Supporter, "Do you believe that Vick should be released because he's innocent, or because he's black?". Because there's no doubt whatsover that he's guilty. Which only leaves one...possible...answer...Hmmm....


Oh I have heard from the extreme Black faction (yes we have them)who truly believe that. That's their right to be so..opinionated.
The rest of us who know right from wrong just point and laugh behind their backs while making snide comments :)

FlyingPig: For everybody else, it's wrong. Right?

Seems that way. Every "culture" has it's own thing(s) but sometimes it's just easier not to care.

Meanwhile the Mexicans are still cock-fighting.

Boy, stereotypes are fun.
And true sometimes

Chiggity Chza


Have you ever seen horse fighting, I saw it somewhere and they do it in Vietnam or some place, that shiat is brutal and hard to watch.


Yep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_rxeh53YOk

Chiggity Chza

Oh, you already have that covered. Nevermind then.

Bastard.

pink freud

Yea sorry. We been blazing this thread for a while now

"It's a cultural thing, I think," Jamie said. "Most brothers didn't know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn't know that was Fed time. So, mike probably just didn't read his handbook on what not to do as a black star."

Emphasis mine.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Using a strawman argument about dogs fighting in the street is not an excuse to run an organized ring of gambling that is based on dogfighting. And this does not excuse killing the dogs that can't fight instead of letting them go or selling them.

What Vick did was wrong. I don't give two flying farks what color his skin is. He was part of an illegal gambling ring in which he got money off of torturing animals and dooming them to a life of pain if they kept fighting or death if they were caught by the state or if they lost. That's downright cruel. Jamie Foxx can exercise his first amendment rights all he wants, but trying to lay racism on this is pathetic. Michael Vick is getting off pretty easily compared to the dogs he killed because they wouldn't win him more money. And considering he probably had a contract that was far more than what most of us make, it only makes this crime even more disgusting. Too bad Foxx is too blinded by skin color or fame to realize that, and that reflects poorly on him as a human being as well.

Chiggity Chza: My dog is less likely to bite someone than Paris' ugly ass little chihuahua. Only difference is that my dog is strong as an ox and tough as a nail. My dog catches bugs and plays with it like a cat, that is the extent of his killer instinct unprovoked. But if you provoke any animal/dog, the breed becomes moot point.

Given that one of the provoked dogs in your example is strong as an ox and tough as a nail, and one is as strong as a mouse, the point is exactly the opposite of moot. Do you know what the word "moot" means?

As for your "guess which dog is a pitbull page", not one of those dogs is standing next to a person or a recognizable object. Zero size perspective. Why is that? There are plenty of breeds that are identical but for their size, as you must know.

bwesb: I am always amazed at our capcity to critcize someone like Jamie Foxx for expressing an opinion. Did he get a PhD in Sociology between movies? Is he now a legal expert? Is he, the star, all of a sudden an expert in the Federal Penal code? Does he even know football above and beyond having played a football player once?

No. He's done none of those things and he certainly is in no position to pretend to comment on this situation. He's just another stiff who happens to live in the spotlight and make a nice chunk of money.

Why stick a microphone in front of him and be shocked by what might be controversial? He is an actor - he makes his living by being eloquent and attracting attention to himself. His opinion is not any more pertinent than anyone else's in this thread. He is a non-issue and his opinions are irrelevant.

I don't disagree with you, really. All I'm saying is that his opinion on this particular matter strikes me as ignorant and wrong-headed, and I'm disappointed by it. I still respect him as an actor (until and unless he spouts off with more asinine viewpoints).

did anyone else watch the video? I HATE when they do that stupid 'can't hold the camera still and it swoops all around making it look edgy and cool technique' It makes me so dizzy.

Tribbles: FlyingPig: For everybody else, it's wrong. Right?

Seems that way. Every "culture" has it's own thing(s) but sometimes it's just easier not to care.

Meanwhile the Mexicans are still cock-fighting.

Boy, stereotypes are fun.
And true sometimes

Cock-fighting is a world-wide "sport", not just relegated to the minorities you don't like.

/America's founding fathers bred gamecocks and organized cock-fights
//C'mon, man, try harder
///Cock-fighting is still cruel and unneccesary, though
//I just frown upon your attempt to make this about race again

Feel sorry for us because we come from the hood, and how dare you suggest that we change?

So, different cultures place different ethical values on various behaviours and activities.

The idea behind ending racism is understanding that, not ignoring it.

So subbie I fail to see how foxx here is encouraging racism.

Chiggity Chza: Anybody know what Miss South Carolina's view is on the issue?

I think these are her thoughts:

"I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some...people out there in our don't have maps pit bulls and uh, I believe that our, ah, education like such as in South Africa, and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uh, our education over here in the US should help the US, or should help South Africa, it should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, Fore!"

I assume she's warning everyone about the aneurysm flying right them.

Alephnaught: So, different cultures place different ethical values on various behaviours and activities.

The idea behind ending racism is understanding that, not ignoring it.

So subbie I fail to see how foxx here is encouraging racism.

Again, so it's OK for black people to engage in dogfighting, but not for everybody else?

It's OK for Irish people to be raging drunks, but not anybody else?

It's OK for Italians to murder people, but not anybody else?

Because it's their "culture"?

Is that what you're saying?