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(Independent)   ♫ Sharif don't like the / Brits in Basra, Brits in Basra ♫   (news.independent.co.uk) divider line 49
    More: Scary  
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7134 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2007 at 2:25 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2007-08-20 11:53:59 AM  
Uber-lame. I thought school had started back.
 
2007-08-20 02:18:10 PM  
Now I will never get that song out of my head.
 
2007-08-20 02:27:34 PM  
Oh holy hell, The INDEPENDENT REALLY!
why don't you just link to the AQ times.
 
2007-08-20 02:28:02 PM  
We should kill his number two. And then kill his number two. And then kill his number two.
 
2007-08-20 02:29:52 PM  
*golf clap*

How do you make the notes?
 
2007-08-20 02:30:03 PM  
"The British have given-up and they know they will be leaving Iraq soon," Mr Sadr said. "They are retreating because if they stay, there will be trouble. If they go there will be double. Without that, they would have stayed for much longer, there is no doubt."
 
2007-08-20 02:30:03 PM  
"They are retreating because of the resistance they have faced. Without that, they would have stayed for much longer, there is no doubt."

What resistance where, with the exception of Al-Amara the Southern half has been relatively peaceful, even when we were sent in to stop insurgents sneaking off from fallujah we adapted to the situation within a few days and the casualty figures dropped, we stayed and fought unlike Al-Sadr who ran off to Iran.
 
2007-08-20 02:32:17 PM  
lol Sherif/sheriff
 
2007-08-20 02:33:52 PM  
img249.imageshack.us
His co-workers
 
2007-08-20 02:39:53 PM  
Funny how Al Sadr was crying like a little biatch when we could have killed him a few years ago (when we had him cornered in his mosque). Now he is suddenly internet tough guy again.
 
2007-08-20 02:39:59 PM  
Should I stay or should I go now?
 
2007-08-20 02:44:25 PM  
Eh. It's impossible to "win" that war without killing pretty much everyone in the country. Local loyaties are to family, sect, warlord, gang etc, not a a nation-state. Withdraw and concentrate on Afghanistan where the real battle is.
 
2007-08-20 02:46:23 PM  
This what you get when you try to play Mr. Nice Guy.
 
2007-08-20 02:48:48 PM  
img502.imageshack.us
 
2007-08-20 02:51:14 PM  
Meh, the Brits have been handing over control to of provinces to Iraqi forces for a while now. Hardly a retreat. Even if I dont always agree with his conclusions I find Michael Yon presents an interesting and engaging alternative read of events in Iraq, particularly in comparison to the vast swathe of journalists who never leave their hotel bedrooms to file reports.
 
2007-08-20 02:53:57 PM  
bheilig Quote
*golf clap*

How do you make the notes?


alt+13=♪ and alt+14=♫
 
2007-08-20 02:54:30 PM  
I liked the headline.

+1 subby
 
2007-08-20 02:57:47 PM  
Gsm136: Oh holy hell, The INDEPENDENT REALLY!
why don't you just link to the AQ times.


Well, how 'bout something from Britain's Fox subsidiary?:

A MILITARY adviser to President George W Bush has warned that British forces will have to fight their way out of Iraq in an "ugly and embarrassing" retreat.

Stephen Biddle, who also advises the US commander in Iraq, said Iranian-backed Shi'ite militias in the south would try to create the impression they were forcing a retreat. "They want to make it clear they have forced the British out. That means they'll use car bombs, ambushes, RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] . . . and there will be a number of British casualties."

The comments coincide with British military estimates that withdrawal could cost the lives of 10 to 15 soldiers.

Some British officers believe they are facing a "humiliating" retreat under fire to Kuwait or the southern Iraqi port of Umm Qasr.

"I regret to say that the Basra experience is set to become a major blunder in terms of military history," said a senior officer. "The insurgents are calling the shots . . . and in a worst-case scenario will chase us out of southern Iraq."
 
2007-08-20 02:59:36 PM  
Gash: Eh. It's impossible to "win" that war without killing pretty much everyone in the country.

And there you go! Bomb Sadr City into oblivion. Anything we do is going to piss off half the country and cheer up the other half. Does it matter which? As long as we've served notice that we won't be intimidated any more and that we're no longer worried about the morality of creating new "martyrs."

I think our next step in the WoT should be to announce that the response to any further terrorist attack in the United States will be the immediate nuclear annihilation of Mecca, no ifs ands or buts. Let the Saudis squeal. Put it in their court--police your co-religionists or face the consequences.
 
2007-08-20 02:59:40 PM  
Hypnosphere: Meh, the Brits have been handing over control to of provinces to Iraqi forces for a while now. Hardly a retreat. Even if I dont always agree with his conclusions I find Michael Yon presents an interesting and engaging alternative read of events in Iraq, particularly in comparison to the vast swathe of journalists who never leave their hotel bedrooms to file reports.

Holy crap the one I just read (Gates of Fire)was brilliant.
 
2007-08-20 03:00:53 PM  
(to "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds")

Picture yourself with a mop in a men's room
Where camphor cake odors make watering eyes:
Wipe up feces that spilled from the loo
And you're gone.

Larry in the shiatter with Drano
Larry in the shiatter with Drano
Larry in the shiatter with Drano
Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
 
2007-08-20 03:02:14 PM  
clambam: I think our next step in the WoT should be to announce that the response to any further terrorist attack in the United States will be the immediate nuclear annihilation of Mecca, no ifs ands or buts.

/Sigh.
 
2007-08-20 03:03:01 PM  
"The British have given-up and they know they will be leaving Iraq soon," Mr Sadr said. "They are retreating because of the resistance they have faced. Without that, they would have stayed for much longer, there is no doubt."

BWAHHHHAAHAA This guy is delusional!

Way to go propaganda!
 
2007-08-20 03:03:41 PM  
Skleenar: Stephen Biddle, who also advises the US commander in Iraq,

What a bang up job their doing.

I can see where they're coming from they wont just let us lower the flag and leave they're going to try and kill us so they seem like they chased us out.
 
2007-08-20 03:06:11 PM  
clambam: I think our next step in the WoT should be to announce that the response to any further terrorist attack in the United States will be the immediate nuclear annihilation of Mecca, no ifs ands or buts. Let the Saudis squeal. Put it in their court--police your co-religionists or face the consequences.

Then suddenly we've turned every muslim against us. Way to go reason!
 
2007-08-20 03:17:06 PM  
clambam: I think our next step in the WoT should be to announce that the response to any further terrorist attack in the United States will be the immediate nuclear annihilation of Mecca, no ifs ands or buts.

You seem to have used the word 'think' incorrectly.
 
2007-08-20 03:30:36 PM  
One of the the best quotes to come from the war was the comment by a British squaddie after Hoon said that Umm Qasr is like Southampton.

"He either doesn't know Umm Qasr very well or doesn't know Southampton. There is no beer, no prostitutes and people are shooting at us. Its more like Portsmouth".
 
2007-08-20 03:32:48 PM  
Screw the Muslims. Read this week's NY Times Magazine. This is already a religious war. That's how they see it. We're so frickin' worried about offending their delicate sensibilities, possibly even interfering with their sacred rights to religious expression, that they're going to gut us like a trout, laughing the whole time and wondering how anybody could be so stupid as to let them get away with this shiat when we had the means and the motivation to put quits to it once and for all. There is nothing the West can do to appease Muslim radicals (and they operate with the complicity of the Muslim "moderates"). Nothing. The only solution, they one we might take after kill a few million of us with dirty bombs, is to strike at the very basis of their worldview, destroy once and for all the infrastructure of Muslim exceptionalism. Kill the religion, distasteful as that sounds, and you will eliminate the threat.
 
2007-08-20 03:44:51 PM  
What is it with all the idiots posting their 'janitor poisoned with LSD laced pizza' story responses in the wrong thread?!

Lay off the psychedilics and learn to focus people. Sheesh...

THESE ARE NOT THE DRUG THREADS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.

/waves hand mystically
 
2007-08-20 04:17:27 PM  
clambam: Screw the Muslims. Read this week's NY Times Magazine. This is already a religious war. That's how they see it. We're so frickin' worried about offending their delicate sensibilities, possibly even interfering with their sacred rights to religious expression, that they're going to gut us like a trout, laughing the whole time and wondering how anybody could be so stupid as to let them get away with this shiat when we had the means and the motivation to put quits to it once and for all. There is nothing the West can do to appease Muslim radicals (and they operate with the complicity of the Muslim "moderates"). Nothing. The only solution, they one we might take after kill a few million of us with dirty bombs, is to strike at the very basis of their worldview, destroy once and for all the infrastructure of Muslim exceptionalism. Kill the religion, distasteful as that sounds, and you will eliminate the threat.

Hmmm...That's very interesting. How often does someone come right out like this and just admit flatly that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about? Well, this is fark, so I guess it's not really all that uncommon.
 
2007-08-20 04:25:44 PM  
shipud: "He either doesn't know Umm Qasr very well or doesn't know Southampton. There is no beer, no prostitutes and people are shooting at us. Its more like Portsmouth".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
2007-08-20 04:28:52 PM  
Was it brown acid? Don't eat the brown acid!
 
2007-08-20 04:37:28 PM  
Just wanted to add another +1 for Smitty.


\and a +eleventy for The Clash
 
2007-08-20 04:43:23 PM  
clambam: Gash: Eh. It's impossible to "win" that war without killing pretty much everyone in the country.

And there you go! Bomb Sadr City into oblivion. Anything we do is going to piss off half the country and cheer up the other half. Does it matter which? As long as we've served notice that we won't be intimidated any more and that we're no longer worried about the morality of creating new "martyrs."

I think our next step in the WoT should be to announce that the response to any further terrorist attack in the United States will be the immediate nuclear annihilation of Mecca, no ifs ands or buts. Let the Saudis squeal. Put it in their court--police your co-religionists or face the consequences.


Oh this is just wonderful logic: "we can't leave; there'll be a bloodbath!11!

Followed immediately by: "if there's to be a bloodbath, it should be the US that causes it!"

Sincerely, and from the bottom of my heart: DIAF
 
2007-08-20 04:54:46 PM  
Dil Doe How often does someone come right out like this and just admit flatly that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about?

Umm! You just did!

clambam is mostly correct. The only real question is what US city will be made radioactive by extremist before a large portion of the Middle East is.

Most likely in our lifetime.
 
2007-08-20 05:15:00 PM  
The Clash?
 
2007-08-20 05:30:05 PM  
OK, I'm not military, but; if you withdraw leaving territory to your enemies who have been shooting at you, well, that's defeat isn't it?
/Is it too late to rethink this running away thing?
//Doesn't seem like a good precedent to set: That Britain can be easily run off.
 
2007-08-20 05:58:31 PM  
When potato boy talks about his great Mehdi army victory, he might well remember how they just got their clocks royally cleaned when they tried their little uprising.

Here is video of some Blackwater employees on top of a building in Najaf, sniping into a "target rich environment" of Mehdi army. It might make you a little queasy to know that he was probably killing one guy for every two to three shots he fired. You count.

Part 1:

http://www.militaryvideos.net/videos.php?videonum=29

Part 2:

http://www.militaryvideos.net/videos.php?videonum=33
 
2007-08-20 07:08:51 PM  
Gash: Eh. It's impossible to "win" that war without killing pretty much everyone in the country . . .

Sounds like you've got that one figured out.
 
2007-08-20 07:14:36 PM  
Thought I would bring out an oldie
Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers
 
2007-08-20 07:54:32 PM  
ethics-gradient: OK, I'm not military, but; if you withdraw leaving territory to your enemies who have been shooting at you, well, that's defeat isn't it?


Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Not all military action ends in victory, and sometimes the really really hard decision is when to cut your losses and get out.

Iraq is interesting. We have an army of occupation who isn't really in control, except for the bits of Iraq they have walled off from the Iraqis; we have a multitude of religious fanatics (each with their own brand of "truth") who want to control some area of the country formerly known as Iraq, all sides are recruiting outsiders (whether Al Qaida, Blackwater, the Iranian National Expeditionary Force in the War on Terror ...) and at this point no clearly defined plan to either exit or fix it. Indeed it is in the interests of certain parties to keep the mayhem going for as long as possible.

"Stay the course" will work until 01-20-09, and then our current bunch of US politicos retire, write their books, become national heroes on Fox (Ollie North, I'm looking at you, you coont).

Jack Bauer, John Rambo and Team America: World Police are all fictional. What's your next line of defence?
 
2007-08-20 08:30:41 PM  
Kirby Muxloe: "...We have an army of occupation who isn't really in control, except for the bits of Iraq they have walled off from the Iraqis..."

Uh, no. Here is the IA order of battle map:

http://billroggio.com/multimedia/IraqBdeOOB.JPG

As you can see, there are Iraqis everywhere now. Here is the Wiki of current IA capabilities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Iraqi_Army

The objective of US military forces is to stabilize the FEW remaining parts of Iraq that are unstable, then turn them over to IA control. The vast majority is under control. Only bits remain to the anti-Iraqi Forces (AIF), including al-Qaeda foreigners.

This would have been accomplished already, except for the fact that now about 75% of all attacks are being directed or supported by Iran. Still not very effectively, but they are trying.

And finally, with the pullout of the British, southern Iraq is not going to be a power vacuum instantly under the control of al-Sadr. Not only is potato boy pulling up third behind two other large Shiite power blocks, SCIRI and the Badr Group, but they have no intention of letting him be in control of anything.

On top of that, his own Mehdi army is breaking apart between the nationalists and those who work for Iran. So let's see. This would mean the US, SCIRI, the Badr Group, and his own ex-Mehdis will be fighting against the few Mehdi factions that choose to oppose the government.

Oh, yes, and the Iraqi Army and police. So add it all up, and they are outnumbered by about 40 to 1.

At this point, the only reason the US need leave Iraq for the next decade is Washingtonian stupidity and ignorance of foreign policy.

If the US just stays where it is, with say a third of our military remaining behind, we get the fruits of our victory: bases in Iraq that equal two or three aircraft carriers on permanent duty, right smack dab in the most troubled part of the planet.

We keep the oil flowing, so there isn't a massive worldwide recession. We keep Iran from blackmailing the world, and maybe from developing nuclear weapons. We also keep Egypt, Arabia, and maybe others from developing nukes in response. We maybe stop a medium large nuclear war with several hundred missiles, mostly from Israel in retaliation, from destroying most of the ME and scattering radioactive contamination as far away as on our side of the planet.

Yeah, it is worth it. It is worth ten times as much.
 
2007-08-20 09:17:14 PM  
Gash: Eh. It's impossible to "win" that war without killing pretty much everyone in the country. Local loyaties are to family, sect, warlord, gang etc, not a a nation-state. Withdraw and concentrate on Afghanistan where the real battle is.

That pretty much sums up the actions of the OJ Simpson jury, as well. Our urban areas are no different.
 
2007-08-20 11:31:22 PM  
yay for the clash
 
2007-08-21 12:36:36 AM  
 
2007-08-21 01:19:25 AM  
And there you go! Bomb Sadr City into oblivion.

While we're doing that, can we bomb Iran? PLEASE???


/Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran...
 
2007-08-21 01:23:17 AM  
Then suddenly we've turned every muslim against us. Way to go reason!


They're almost all against us already.

If there are 10 million muslims that are "for us", and we kill 50 million muslims who are already "against us" causing those original 10 million muslims to turn against us, that still leaves us 40 million muslims up, doesn't it???

/not kidding
//they'll never like us
///will settle for them fearing us.
 
2007-08-21 01:26:02 AM  
bRAIN dROPPINGS FTW

/Old School Kipling fan
/When you're wounded an' left on Afghanistan's plains...
 
2007-08-21 07:50:14 AM  
bRAIN dROPPINGS - Thanks. Kipling understood stuff us modern Brits have forgotten.
Will the US move into what was the British zone to fill the power vacuum? Because it seems like Iran will if they don't.
 
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