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(My San Antonio)   White male police officer charged with beating a young black lesbian over her request that he not smoke. My god, it's like a smorgasbord of issues and hot buttons just waiting to be explored   (mysanantonio.com) divider line 206
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13754 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2007 at 1:49 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-08-05 03:00:52 PM  
The_Sponge writes: Our smoking ban here in Washington applies to ALL indoor places....so you can't even operate a cigar bar....no joke.

Does this also apply to owner-operated bars?

In most states and cities, the point of smoking bans is to protect the workers...so owner-operated bars are exempt. A total ban seems a little extreme to me. And hard to justify.
 
2007-08-05 03:00:55 PM  
The_Sponge,

What about Hooka bars? Are they illegal in Washington?
 
2007-08-05 03:01:30 PM  
The_Sponge: eraser8: The_Sponge writes: the only places I can light up are outdoors.

Maybe you should use this to your advantage and open a cigar bar.



I would love to, but even if I had $1 million in start-up capital, there's is no way I could do it. Our smoking ban here in Washington applies to ALL indoor places....so you can't even operate a cigar bar....no joke.

Even if you have a private club, smoking is still prohibited. A local country club used to have a great cigar loundge, and they had to close it down.

This is getting too farking insane. California has a smoking ban, but at least you can smoke in a cigar bar/smoke shop. On Monday I'm flying down to Long Beach and there's a cigar bar called Cohiba....I can't wait to check it out.


I'll be in the seat next to you, farting up a storm.
 
2007-08-05 03:07:18 PM  
eraser8 doesn't know what he's talkikng about. He makes it up as he goes along.
 
2007-08-05 03:07:19 PM  
ScottMpls: Hit it?

/sorry


Dude, you're going to hell.


/'sokay, I'm in the seat behind you, cuz I LOL'd.
 
2007-08-05 03:08:05 PM  
eraser8:
Does this also apply to owner-operated bars?



Unfortunately, it does.


rebelyell2006: The_Sponge,

What about Hooka bars? Are they illegal in Washington?




Yes, they're illegal as well.

Link (pops)

The most upsetting thing about the ban is that it was passed via initiative...so I cannot imagine Olympia overturning it. Most of the voters in this state were too farking stupid to know what they were voting for. I actually met some people who voted for the ban, and they were shocked that it banned smoking in cigar bars and private clubs.

Next time, do your farking research before you vote.

Even my Mom voted against the ban...and that says a lot because she turns green any time I smoke a cigar around her.
 
2007-08-05 03:08:46 PM  
Welcome to I hate cops and military day.


/Ah the Fark, its a mutha farker.
 
2007-08-05 03:09:42 PM  
DrForrester:
I'll be in the seat next to you, farting up a storm.



As soon as you do that, I'll light a match and your jeans will catch fire.
 
2007-08-05 03:14:13 PM  
Vaughan's cousin was yelling at Alfaro, who allegedly responded, "I don't speak ghetto. I don't understand Ebonics. Speak English."

Seems like a reasonable request
 
2007-08-05 03:15:34 PM  
Weaver95
eraser8:
This is interesting.

I wonder which typical Fark prejudice -- anti-black or anti-cop -- will win out in this thread.

'anti-black'? Get off welfare and we'll stop nagging you.

From reading this article tho, I'd have to say it sounds like the cop was just being a typical 'jerk with a badge'. There's plenty of good cops out there, but more and more it seems like the idiots are taking over the police force.


Or the media has found that articles that highlight abuse of power by cops is selling lots of copy, so they do more coverage of it.
 
2007-08-05 03:15:58 PM  
Have you heard the one about the two police officers in Oklahoma who were shooting at a snake in a bird house?

Seems like a stay bullet capped a 12 year old in the cranium, in the next yard. killed him dead.

We should all trust the police, they are professionally trained to handle all circumstances.

The snake escaped, unharmed.
 
2007-08-05 03:17:42 PM  
aphexcoil: Bible says hit dem Lesbians.

Hit um good.

Bible.

God Bless 'Merica.

Sorry, I don't remember that verse.



I believe it comes right after "Keep yer legs shut till yer married, whore!" and just before "You got knocked up, you gotta have the kid, but don't touch our welfare, whore!"

/"whore" gets a lot of usage in the Bible
 
2007-08-05 03:24:20 PM  
LocalCynic: Weaver95

'anti-black'? Get off welfare and we'll stop nagging you.

Funny, where I come from, the welfare rolls are almost entirely white people. I guess that must mean all white people are on welfare, right?

Come on, you're smarter than this crap.


The number of whites on welfare is around 38%, the number of blacks is around 37% (% of total recipients, not people of that ethnicity) so it's pretty close numbers-wise.

Of course if you look at total % of our population which comprises of black people then a much higher percentage of the black community is on ADFC than in the white community so maybe that is what some people are talking about.

But that high percentage is meaningless without considering the substantiated claims that if you are black you are going to have less opportunity to become financially solvent.

Welfare just isn't any kind of gauge to judge a group of people. If anything I think it indicates that black people are living in a society in which they are farked from the starting gate. Anyone who thinks being on welfare is awesome has clearly never been on it.

/"white" (actually a joo, but that = "white" on a census.
//was on welfare as a kid.
///it sucked (but I actually did like the big blocks of fake cheese
 
2007-08-05 03:27:29 PM  
"The officer at the end of the day got paid for beating me," Vaughan said. "I would love for him to be suspended. Fired. Something. But suspended for right now would be fine."

Did this strike anyone as absurdly low expectations for justice? But hey, maybe she just didn't understand the difference between on duty and off duty -- because we all know he wouldn't go to jail for doing this on duty, no farking way.

phestry: We all know that cops are generally assholes. But, I think most public cigar smokers are too. Those things put out tons of really nasty smelling smoke.

Don't you love it when some guy you don't know "marks" you with his scent? Men love cigars because it's a way of controlling the space around them. It's a prosthetic for people who wish they had a stronger personality.
 
2007-08-05 03:29:27 PM  
If he resisted arrest, why wasn't he tased?
I think if tasering is justifiable when resisting arrest, and a cop is resisting arrest, and they don't tase, the Judge should order a retro tasing before any other legal procedures begin.
Keep things fair and balanced.
Also, Piggers, please.
Just another pig with a burning dog turd in his mouth.
I'm sure he will find the nice brown stogies in PMITA prison just as hot and smokin'. Enjoy the stay, try the veal, and don't forget to tip your cellie, pig.
 
2007-08-05 03:31:34 PM  
Is this made up? I mean come on. This sounds like one of those outrageous scenarios they come up with for the bar exam.
 
2007-08-05 03:32:29 PM  
Samsaran: Is this made up? I mean come on. This sounds like one of those outrageous scenarios they come up with for the bar exam.

ripped from the pages of your blue book finals.
 
2007-08-05 03:33:14 PM  
logruszed:
But that high percentage is meaningless without considering the substantiated claims that if you are black you are going to have less opportunity to become financially solvent.



I respectfully disagree with that. Both of Grandfathers (white) had much larger obstacles than most black people today. My Grandpa on my Mom's side of the family didn't get his first pair of shoes until he was 7. On my Dad's side, he came to the U.S. with only $40 in his pocket.

Both of them went on to successful lives, BTW.
 
2007-08-05 03:34:16 PM  
i210.photobucket.com
 
2007-08-05 03:34:36 PM  
grackle: It's a prosthetic for people who wish they had a stronger personality.


Not true. For me, enjoying a cigar is just like having a nice glass of wine.
 
2007-08-05 03:38:33 PM  
Stu Padassol

*golf clap*
 
2007-08-05 03:43:21 PM  
I bet one of them was an illegal immigrant, too.
 
2007-08-05 03:46:06 PM  
I think if tasering is justifiable when resisting arrest, and a cop is resisting arrest, and they don't tase, the Judge should order a retro tasing before any other legal procedures begin.

right on!
"Retro tasering"?? me likey!
It takes a certain breed to become a pi-, er, a cop.
There should be a "Texas" tag.
 
2007-08-05 03:46:33 PM  
The Aristocrats!
 
2007-08-05 03:49:57 PM  
JQPublic: Good. The non-smoking Nazis should be beaten within an inch of their lives.


/smoker.


I'm a non-smoking Nazi, and I'm sure getting a kick out of these replies.

But seriously. I don't like having to inhale other people's smoke in public (or at all for that matter). With that having been said, there SHOULD be some place smokers CAN go so they can enjoy a beer or meal and STILL have a smoke. I don't approve of the habit, but it's a lifestyle choice and it's NOT illegal; so what's the f*cking problem? Just make a smoking section in restaurants and seal it up as best as you can, with proper ventilation and all. Or, allow some places to apply for a smoker's license (like you'd have to get a liquor license), so they can have smokers come in and do their thing. Just paste a big sign out front of each establishment warning non-smokers that they enter at their own risk.
 
2007-08-05 03:50:50 PM  
Where are your from? I want to move there.

Any of the fly over states fits that bill. All the baby mommas I see at the WIC machine are white here in Wyoming.
 
2007-08-05 03:53:09 PM  
Nobody looked at the KENS videos that were linked before? Since I saw you asking, cycledesign, I'll point out that while Officer Alfaro is light-skinned, he's clearly Latino of heritage. He's got a history of mistreating suspects. And he's also got "smug arsehole" plastered ALL. OVER. HIS. MUG.


\ no doubts whatsoever that this asshat did everything that he's being accused of
\\ and no, cigar smoking at a public pool is not farking OK, for the record
 
2007-08-05 03:54:58 PM  
Also, in raw numbers, whites make up the majority of welfare recipients nationwide. Percentage wide, minorities are disproportionately represented.

When it comes to Aid For Dependent Children blacks are the majority and whites come in second.

Welfare facts are way different from what your neighborhood friendly bigot would have you believe.
 
2007-08-05 03:55:39 PM  
Jesterian: Afterward, Vaughan's cousin was yelling at Alfaro, who allegedly responded, "I don't speak ghetto. I don't understand Ebonics. Speak English."

Haha, the only thing I agree with the cop about. I never understood the motivation behind taking the english language and bastardizing it like that.


"The English language," as Mr. Heinlein said "is the result of Norman soldiers trying to get dates with Saxon barmaids and no more legitimate than any of the other results."
 
2007-08-05 03:56:15 PM  
The_Sponge: logruszed:
But that high percentage is meaningless without considering the substantiated claims that if you are black you are going to have less opportunity to become financially solvent.



I respectfully disagree with that. Both of Grandfathers (white) had much larger obstacles than most black people today. My Grandpa on my Mom's side of the family didn't get his first pair of shoes until he was 7. On my Dad's side, he came to the U.S. with only $40 in his pocket.

Both of them went on to successful lives, BTW.


The problem with using two examples out of 300,000,000 people is that the example is not significant to anyone other than you personally.

There are plenty of people who have overcome all sorts of obstacles, but that does not really speak to any general disparity between races/social classes, etc.

Also everyones grandparents had it relatively harder in their time than people do today, including black people's grandparents.

Society is indeed advancing very slowly towards equality, so the general good for all people is increasing.

Think of it in abstract terms:

Say you have two bowls to catch water. One bowl represents black people and one bowl represents white people. Now the black bowl starts off with 1 cup of water than the white bowl starts off with four cups of water. Fill them both at the same rate and the white bowl will still fill up more quickly, right? Even though both bowls are being filled, there is still a disparity. Now can you point me towards ant event which has caused water to enter the back bowl more quickly than the white bowl which would cause them to be level now?

Even the civil rights movement was only designed to cause the bowls to fill at the same rate, not to empty them both and start on even footing. And we could argue all day if the movement was even absolutely effective in doing what it set out to do.
 
2007-08-05 03:57:56 PM  
xanadian: JQPublic: Good. The non-smoking Nazis should be beaten within an inch of their lives.


/smoker.

I'm a non-smoking Nazi, and I'm sure getting a kick out of these replies.

But seriously. I don't like having to inhale other people's smoke in public (or at all for that matter). With that having been said, there SHOULD be some place smokers CAN go so they can enjoy a beer or meal and STILL have a smoke. I don't approve of the habit, but it's a lifestyle choice and it's NOT illegal; so what's the f*cking problem? Just make a smoking section in restaurants and seal it up as best as you can, with proper ventilation and all. Or, allow some places to apply for a smoker's license (like you'd have to get a liquor license), so they can have smokers come in and do their thing. Just paste a big sign out front of each establishment warning non-smokers that they enter at their own risk.



That's what gets me so pissed off about the ban here in Washington....it's makes no concessions what so ever.

Daniel's Broiler in Bellevue used to have an awesome cigar lounge....plus, their ventilation system was teh awesome...you couldn't smell any cigar smoke if you were outside the lounge door.

After the ban passed, they had to convert the space into a wine-tasting bar/lounge.

I was there on Dec. 7, 2005....that was the final time we could legally smoke indoors.
 
2007-08-05 03:59:13 PM  
But seriously. I don't like having to inhale other people's smoke in public (or at all for that matter). With that having been said, there SHOULD be some place smokers CAN go so they can enjoy a beer or meal and STILL have a smoke. I don't approve of the habit, but it's a lifestyle choice and it's NOT illegal; so what's the f*cking problem?

That seems reasonable, but the problem is that they drive up insurance and medical costs. My parents are coming into their mid-sixties, when the boomers hit their late 60's the amount of emphysema and lung cancer is going to absolutely explode. That is all long term, costly care. You and I will be paying for it.
(surprise privatized medicine is no different than socialized medicine, we all pool our money together and spread the costs out).
 
2007-08-05 04:00:19 PM  
Lets see.... mmmmmm Black Hooker... hey now, is that anything like a Nappey headed ho?... just checking... nuff said..
 
2007-08-05 04:01:01 PM  
xanadian:

I'm a non-smoking Nazi, and I'm sure getting a kick out of these replies.

Arizona recently gave people like you (non-smokers) absolute power over people like me (smokers). Now I can't even smoke in the bar that I used to. The bar's owner has no say in the matter of his own establishment. Now I have to walk twenty feet away from the front door to smoke.

For real, don't ever have a medical emergency in this 20-foot "No Smoking" radius, because I wont enter it to save your life if I'm smoking.

/I really do hate you people!!!!
 
2007-08-05 04:02:32 PM  
The_Sponge

You do understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and population-level statistical information, correct?

Not that logruszed quoted any particular statistic or peer-reviewed study... but I think that you'll find that his point is easier to substantiate than yours.
 
2007-08-05 04:03:03 PM  
JQPublic: xanadian:

I'm a non-smoking Nazi, and I'm sure getting a kick out of these replies.

Arizona recently gave people like you (non-smokers) absolute power over people like me (smokers). Now I can't even smoke in the bar that I used to. The bar's owner has no say in the matter of his own establishment. Now I have to walk twenty feet away from the front door to smoke.

For real, don't ever have a medical emergency in this 20-foot "No Smoking" radius, because I wont enter it to save your life if I'm smoking.

/I really do hate you people!!!!


You never throw your butts on the ground either, do you?
 
2007-08-05 04:05:40 PM  
iaazathot: But seriously. I don't like having to inhale other people's smoke in public (or at all for that matter). With that having been said, there SHOULD be some place smokers CAN go so they can enjoy a beer or meal and STILL have a smoke. I don't approve of the habit, but it's a lifestyle choice and it's NOT illegal; so what's the f*cking problem?

That seems reasonable, but the problem is that they drive up insurance and medical costs. My parents are coming into their mid-sixties, when the boomers hit their late 60's the amount of emphysema and lung cancer is going to absolutely explode. That is all long term, costly care. You and I will be paying for it.
(surprise privatized medicine is no different than socialized medicine, we all pool our money together and spread the costs out).



Alchohol and fast food also play a role in driving up medical costs.....so what should we do about those?
 
2007-08-05 04:05:50 PM  
You never throw your butts on the ground either, do you?

I field strip them. And put them in my pocket. And throw them away later. It is a military thing.


/nice try fascist.
 
2007-08-05 04:10:26 PM  
JQPublic: You never throw your butts on the ground either, do you?

I field strip them. And put them in my pocket. And throw them away later. It is a military thing.


/nice try fascist.


You can call me a fascist all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're not being persecuted. Good for you for "field stripping" your butts (whatever that means), but until smokers in general get over their belief that its their inalienable right to litter or light up in confined spaces I'll gladly support these rules that piss you off so much.
 
2007-08-05 04:14:11 PM  
The_Sponge: smoking, etc


Did that bar with the idea to go private with a $1 membership fee end up working out?
 
2007-08-05 04:16:43 PM  
doyner

A two second Google search revealed the following:

When ashtrays aren't present, we encourage customers to "field strip" their cigarettes. This involves stubbing out the cigarette and knocking out all loose tobacco and paper. Carefully inspect the cigarette butt to ensure there are no remaining embers, and then dispose of the cigarette in the trash.

/Really, not that hard.
 
2007-08-05 04:17:18 PM  
logruszed: The_Sponge: smoking, etc


Did that bar with the idea to go private with a $1 membership fee end up working out?



Hmmmmm....I don't recall hearing about that one in the news, but I doubt they could have pulled it off.

The Newcastle Golf & Country Club has member pay a shiatload of money in membership dues, and they were also forced to go smoke-free.
 
2007-08-05 04:17:35 PM  
i106.photobucket.com
 
2007-08-05 04:18:52 PM  
lymerae: doyner

A two second Google search revealed the following:

When ashtrays aren't present, we encourage customers to "field strip" their cigarettes. This involves stubbing out the cigarette and knocking out all loose tobacco and paper. Carefully inspect the cigarette butt to ensure there are no remaining embers, and then dispose of the cigarette in the trash.

/Really, not that hard.


Thanks for the lesson, Dr. Google. You've made me see that smokers are persecuted after all...
 
2007-08-05 04:21:16 PM  
doyner

Oh, I don't think smokers are persecuted. I just liked your little "whatever that means," as if it were an impenetrable mystery.
 
2007-08-05 04:22:02 PM  
lymerae

And BTW, that site you got that quote from wouldn't even be necessary if not for my original point that smokers (in general) feel that littering is another right they have.
 
2007-08-05 04:24:06 PM  
DirtyHarry: That will teach the porch monkeys now to not back talk the white man.

1/10

DarkSkyForever: Bible says hit dem Lesbians.

Hit um good.

Bible.

God Bless 'Merica.


3/10

Cakeboy: There's a shock. No, seriously I thought piling an entire family complete with grandparents and cousins was reserved for the Mexican population.

4/10

randomizetimer: Smoking Cops, Cool. It does not matter who the non-smoking wussies are! The don't have a right not to get beat. (Confused by the double negative, so am I.)

0/10 WTF?

waste301: Personally, I like the cop. Nagger lesbians need to be put in their place. That place is the ghetto, where their ebonics won't be an issue and they function in some kind of normal way. Once they get into normal society, this is the type shiat that happens. She probably said something like,"Yo brah, put dat shii ou' I cahn smell mah BBQ!" and he took offense as a homeowner, doing something legal, on his own property.

Oh, and if she wants to be a man, she gets treated like a man.


7/10

blankwhiteboard: What an ass. First for making the air filthy with his smoke then beating someone for asking him to stop being a filthy, smelly asshat.

/Jerk


5/10

Fallguyx: Long story short: Black lesbo chick should kept her damn mouth shut and there wouldn't have been a problem.

9/10 Best of the lot.

LocalCynic: And if those Duke boys wouldn't have hired a stripper, they never would have gone through the meat grinder. Those stupid frat boys deserved it for being sinners.

4/10 trying way too hard.

doyner: I wish our society would quit persecuting smokers. Filling enclosed spaces with smoke is no big deal, everyone should get over it. Also, smokers should have the right to throw their butts on the ground. It's not really littering.

1/10 It's like political rock, or Christian rock. It never works.

don't mind me, just counting troll coup...
 
2007-08-05 04:24:27 PM  
lymerae: The_Sponge

You do understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and population-level statistical information, correct?

Not that logruszed quoted any particular statistic or peer-reviewed study... but I think that you'll find that his point is easier to substantiate than yours.


This is just some raw numbers on percentile breakdown by ethnicity on who is on welfare:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/7Welfare.htm

For the causal relationships there are, in all honesty, sound arguments going in both directions and I can't link to any abstracts or peer review w/o sharing my Academic Search Premier or EBSCOHOST password.
 
2007-08-05 04:26:10 PM  
lymerae: doyner

Oh, I don't think smokers are persecuted. I just liked your little "whatever that means," as if it were an impenetrable mystery.


The "whatever that means" comment was my own personal slight at military types that like to throw in military jargon whenever they can. It certainly wasn't "an impenetrable mystery." (nice phrase, BTW)

I live with a smoker who has come around to the double standard that many have WRT littering. I laughed my ass off at her when she got a ticket from a cop that saw her throw a butt out of her car window. I have no sympathy.
 
2007-08-05 04:35:31 PM  
doyner: lymerae: doyner

Oh, I don't think smokers are persecuted. I just liked your little "whatever that means," as if it were an impenetrable mystery.

The "whatever that means" comment was my own personal slight at military types that like to throw in military jargon whenever they can. It certainly wasn't "an impenetrable mystery." (nice phrase, BTW)

I live with a smoker who has come around to the double standard that many have WRT littering. I laughed my ass off at her when she got a ticket from a cop that saw her throw a butt out of her car window. I have no sympathy.



I would like to take this opportunity to mention that my cigar butts are 100% biodegradable.

Regardless, I still dispose of them in a proper manner. Back when I lived at my parents' house during college, I would put them in the compost pile or bury them next to the rose bushes. (Roses love cigar butts.)
 
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