*not getting in without them

Last year 23,913 Canadians Hong Kong Chinese with a Canadian passport moved to the US, presumably to get away from Canada's superior health care or something.

Check out the Chinese moving into Seattle neighborhoods -- invariably they get here via Canada.

EMCGuy: Gooseycheeks: I know a girl that married a Canadian and moved to BC.

So with that anecdotal evidence in hand, I can become a journalist and write an article about, "American Women Swoon For Canadian Men; Mass Migration." Then talk about how many women are marrying Canadian men and moving north, supporting my claim only with my anecdotal evidence of 1 person.

Even better, I know two sisters that are Canadian. They both married Americans and moved to the USA. Obviously this heralds an enormous influx of hot Canadians coming down to seduce our menfolk.

/ At least that's what I'm hoping for

I have an ex stepmother in Sydney who claims Aussie women would kill for American men. Says their aussie men treat them like crap.Of course that's one persons anecdotal evidence from Sydney. I have no idea how people roll in Perth.

whereisian: Um. No (pops).

Um ... yes. From the very Wiki article you posted.

(By the way saying ... "um no" and linking a wikipedia article you haven't even read is the very pinnacle of lame)

The notwithstanding clause authorizes governments to temporarily override the rights and freedoms in sections 2 and 7-15 for up to five years, subject to renewal.

This only goes to show that your typical Canadian Farker is ignorant as his American counterpart.

hankhorsey: fanbladesaresharp: What it would cost me to uproot life as it is to relocate anywhere in Canuckyland would be the equivalant to several years health insurance I'm paying now for the family. So the trade off will be years off in the future and I'm still out of money. And more taxes.

Depends. Do you have a University degree/technical skills in an in-demand field? Do you the financial resources to support yourself and your family? Because with a skills-based immigration system, you're not getting in. And if you have those things, you probably aren't poor.

As a matter of fact I do. I I feel no need to relocate to Canada. I can go to Australia or several other countries if I choose to do so. But I'm content with living in the US. Why spend a ginormous amount of money for a job that pays the same and costs me more NOW in health care whether I use it or not?

I know a lot of people who moved to the US.

They all intend to come back, some "eventually" and most "after a couple years." Most do. Most don't ever even bother getting citizenship. It's considered a good thing for your resume to spend a couple years in the UK, Australia, or US (well, anywhere abroad really, but those are English speaking nations, so it's easier to integrate).

fanbladesaresharp [TotalFark] Quote 2007-08-01 07:21:51 PM

You need to see a bit more of Canada first. Vancouver is just Canada's version of Seattle, within a rock's throw. And if you're getting married just for the citizenship? Um.....dude......

I appreciate your comment, but it's not really that big of a deal. When I worked at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, many of the people there were international and I had several friends who got married just for the citizenship. In my case, we are genuinely just good friends but a pseudo-marriage could screw things up if either of us wanted to get real-married before citizenship was complete.

As for Vancouver being the Seattle of Canada.... just fine by me. Been all over the US and Seattle, Portland, and San Fran are the only US cities I'd consider moving to.

so if is the thread about healthcare then?

if it is, why doesn't anyone talk about the lawsuits in Canada where people were fighting for privately contracted healthcare because the long periods in the government system was a violation of their rights and freedoms? why don't they talk of the widespread delays in the public healthcare, where some patients even die from waiting, like the Montreal person who waited a year to get a hip replaced? the increasing taxation? difficulties in getting medicine? (pros and cons on both sides, eh?)

i want healthcare cheap in price too but i don't want it cheap in quality . . . if i need something, i'll still go to lengths to get it done right

don't listen to moore or clinton, he's known for exaggerations and out-of-context quotes; and she's known for failing her one objective as the first lady: healthcare . . . not the experts i want to learn from

AXESMI: it ain't free laddie, but you'd probably pay the equivalent in purchasing health insurance in the states. Also, you can never be refused and you won't go broke if you break your arm.

Omnivorous are you on crack?

With the currency exchange rate being the way it is, its probably better to be Canadian.


But damnit that cold weather.

As the member of the right, let me say the Canadians can have our liberals. They're getting in the way of us forming our christian theocracy.

Suck it, libs.

bartman21: fanbladesaresharp [TotalFark] Quote 2007-08-01 07:21:51 PM

You need to see a bit more of Canada first. Vancouver is just Canada's version of Seattle, within a rock's throw. And if you're getting married just for the citizenship? Um.....dude......

I appreciate your comment, but it's not really that big of a deal. When I worked at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, many of the people there were international and I had several friends who got married just for the citizenship. In my case, we are genuinely just good friends but a pseudo-marriage could screw things up if either of us wanted to get real-married before citizenship was complete.

As for Vancouver being the Seattle of Canada.... just fine by me. Been all over the US and Seattle, Portland, and San Fran are the only US cities I'd consider moving to.

That's my point. I've met a few people that thought they hooked up with "mr/mrs right", did the whole citizenship then and then POOF, they're gone. Vancouver is pretty. And cleaner IMO.

BooRabideau: those delays of which you speak were a direct cause of cutbacks when those governments in question attempted to control their budgets (with varying degrees of success) and/or the training of doctors and nurses is unable to keep up with demand.

Not one single political party would suggest that the public health system be dismantled and would be turfed very quickly if they tried.

We are not saying the system is perfect, but generally we are quite satisfied with it.

fanbladesaresharp

People who need psych evaluations are bumped up the list and people who attempt suicide/are on suicide watch get seen within a few days. If you need to see a psychiatrist for something non-urgent, like a check up a few years after a nervous breakdown or want to change meds or something like that, that's when the wait-times start getting into the weeks/months.

Of course its all relative. If you're 300km away from a city then you'll be waiting months for almost anything. If you live in Toronto or anything south of it you'll get seen in a few weeks.

Perhaps I meant "direct effect"...

/stupid brain

pvd021: With the currency exchange rate being the way it is, its probably better to be Canadian.


But damnit that cold weather.

I'm told the bugs in Winnipeg during summer can compete with anything the American south can throw at them. I can deal with the ice and snow, but at some point I'd also like to go outside when it melts.

Solid State Vittles: Yet, that imbalance is shrinking. Last year, 23,913 Canadians moved to the United States, a significant decrease from 29,930 in 2005.

So, let me see if this is right:

Out of the 33.3 million Canadians there are, 23,000 move to the US each year.

But out of the 300 million Americans, roughly 11,000 leave for Canada.

It would take 207,000 Americans leaving each year to be equal to the amount of Canadians leaving for the US.

Viking_Kitty: I see your point, but you have to understand how freaking cold it gets here (which varies from province to province). I would prefer to see a breakdown of who leaves and where they originate from.

You've got it all wrong.

The US and Canada have a long standing agreement to trade whining and unhappy people, the US gets approximately two Canadians for every American because you're a really high class whiner if you live in the best country in the world and you're unhappy.

So the US is trading one very loud whiner for two Candian whiners who are not as loud put together.

Damn Yanks, go back to Africa England where you belong!

It's been mentioned before in this thread but...

It's better to be rich in the States then it is in Canada. No argument. If you've got money you've got mobility, you've probably got marketable skills and you probably don't need many social safety nets.

It's better to be poor in Canada. I would think there'd be no argument here. If you're broke you aren't in a position to pack up and leave, and you definitely won't make it through our immigration screening process - unless you're a draft-dodging hippie claiming asylum or something.

Just this, as I'm sure it's been said:

FTFA: My stepfather has diabetes and has health issues. So, he'd be taken care of for free if he moved up here."



Wowie wow wow wow.


You're welcome to this type, my brother to the north.

fanbladesaresharp: I'm told the bugs in Winnipeg during summer can compete with anything the American south can throw at them.

The mosquito's in Winnipeg swarm and carry off pets and small children. It's one of the reasons I moved. RIP Pickles, you're missed.

With 20 million Canadians and 300 million Americans in the equation those numbers mean that one out of every 836 Canadians moved to the U.S. versus one out of every 27,417 Americans who moved to Canada which means Canadians are 33 times more likely to move to the U.S. than Americans are to move to Canada so one can reasonably conclude that Canada is not just a little bit worse but at the bare minimum 33 times worse than America.

Factoring in the fact that they're getting subhumanoid liberturds, like Alec Baldwin, in exchange for the sturdy lumberjack/hockey types we're getting and using the standard exchange of 3 liberturds per actual human and we see the true comparison is that Canada is provably and actually 99 times worse than America.

I look forward to looks on these people's faces after we invade and enslave Canada. They're all gonna be like DOH! we made the wrong decisions.

/Clean my yard hippie slave

OscarTamerz: Factoring in the fact that they're getting subhumanoid liberturds, like Alec Baldwin, in exchange for the sturdy lumberjack/hockey types we're getting and using the standard exchange of 3 liberturds per actual human

What a moron! It's people like you that give Fark a bad name. Get a life!

Everyone knows it's closer to 7 or 8!

we see the true comparison is that Canada is provably and actually 99 times worse than America.

I see that I am truly in Fark-land, where anyone can make spurious remarks based on almost no evidence.

Like I have said before: it could be any number of factors including weather, schooling, jobs, money, and yes even Canada sucks.

If, in case, the last is true for most of these migrants then you are welcome to them - we'll be fine without them.

miseducated: klymen: As great as Canada is, It's very hard to start a business and get rich up here.

Total horsesh*t. Not only is the process of creating a proprietorship as simple as a piece of paper that costs less than $100, most municipal governments and every provincial ones provide grants and tax incentives to start new businesses.


Ha, now that's funny. Not really - pseudo-socialism isn't that funny, sorry.

nemecizer: I look forward to looks on these people's faces after we invade and enslave Canada. They're all gonna be like DOH! we made the wrong decisions.

I'm moving closer to the internment camps Bush and Cheney are building. I want a coupla young ones, so they can breed and make me some money selling slave babies!

glassa

Yeah, because every Canadian who has needed health care died on a waiting list. You see a few stories and think it's fact for everything.

In the US the people who MAY die here on a waiting list WILL die if they have no insurance coverage.

You are swine.

miseducated: Not only is the process of creating a proprietorship as simple as a piece of paper that costs less than $100, most municipal governments and every provincial ones provide grants and tax incentives to start new businesses.

Hmm, I wonder where they get the money for those grants and who makes up the difference in taxes for those incentives?? Gosh, where do they get it all from?

robbieluv 2007-08-01 08:08:24 PM
we see the true comparison is that Canada is provably and actually 99 times worse than America.

I see that I am truly in Fark-land, where anyone can make spurious remarks based on almost no evidence.

See Viking_Kitty's post if you don't believe me although I must admit I didn't realize there was so much liberturd inflation although liberturd inflation would explain the 80 pounds that Alec Baldwin has put on not to mention the 100+ pounds that Al Gore slapped on since his unsuccessful attempt at stealing the presidency in 2000.

LavenderWolf: In the US the people who MAY die here on a waiting list WILL die if they have no insurance coverage.

Right, because it's not like we have any government programs or laws that protect our citizens who don't have health insurance.

Answer: India/China/Pakistan -> Canada -> US

It's a lot easier to become a Canadian citizen than a US citizen and it's easier to work in the US if you're Canadian.

milk_plus: It's a lot easier to become a Canadian citizen than a US citizen

Is it? How so? (not trolling, just wondering)

robbieluv: I see that I am truly in Fark-land, where anyone can make spurious remarks based on almost no evidence.

Well, there's a little evidence:

Bring out yer anti-Canadian sentiments on fark, *BANG*
Bring out yer anti-Canadian sentiments on fark, *BANG*
Bring out yer anti-Canadian sentiments on fark, *BANG*
Bring out yer anti-Canadian sentiments on fark, *BANG*
Bring out yer anti-Canadian sentiments on fark, *BANG*
Bring out yer anti-Canadian sentiments on fark, *BANG*

etc, etc, etc...

//Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
/// Never lick a steak knife.

As a Canadian living in America I can tell you why I left and my general feelings for how things are between the two countries.

1) If you are single or a young professional, it is much better to move to America. The money here is just infinitely greater and taxation is not insane. You definitely have more buying power and can enjoy life a whole lot better. This is under the assumption though that you are a skilled worker making more than 50k a year. That is why so many Canadians go to the US, as the opportunities are not only better, there are more of them.

2) If you are poor or low middle class, it is probably better in Canada. There are 'generally' more safety nets that you can fall back on.

3) If you have a stable job with health coverage, the US medical system is superior. If you have money then it is possible to in essence 'throw money at the problem' in the US. If you need an MRI in Canada, you either wait 3-4 months, or they tell you to go to the US and pay for an MRI which you can get within a day, and send it back to the Canadian hospital. Basically the care in Canada is somewhere in the a bit lower than average, but that level of care is available to all. In the US it is more of a double hump where there is really good care or really bad care and not much in the middle. So if you are relatively wealthy then the US system seems superior since you can pay for more comfortable hospital stay. But if you are poor the Canadian system seems better since the average care there is a whole lot better than the care you would receive in the US being poor.

4) Want free health care, you have to pay for it. "Free" is a relative term. You pay for it with your increased taxed income you make in Canada, which is already less than you would be making in the US. Places like Finland i believe have some insane taxation like 80-90%. But in return you are given top rate health care and post secondary education for free. Again 'free' being kinda relative since you're being taxed up the wahzoo.

5) Just because universal healthcare works in Canada doesn't mean it will work in the US. Hawaii has a great health care system for its residents and many have tried to use it as a model for healthcare in other states. However these have generally failed due to the fact that these systems just don't scale well. Bloat, fraud, administration begin to outweigh the benefits after a certain point.

I agree, American health care is crap. Poor Americans never get the chance to become addicted to pain killers while they wait months for medical procedures that are done in a week or two here.

strathcona: Is it? How so? (not trolling, just wondering)

A lot of the Indian guys at work become Canadian citizens first. I'm not really sure how it's easier but they say it is and it's really common.

strathcona: Is it? How so? (not trolling, just wondering)

You have to down a half-case of Molson, then explain the rules of Curling, I believe.

Or is it play a round of Curling and explain how Molson is made?

fanbladesaresharp: Vancouver is pretty. And cleaner IMO.

Than what? A bag of assholes? I love Vancouver and think it's the best place in Canada, but half this city smells like piss.

Samsaran: whereisian: Um. No (pops).

Um ... yes. From the very Wiki article you posted.

(By the way saying ... "um no" and linking a wikipedia article you haven't even read is the very pinnacle of lame)

The notwithstanding clause authorizes governments to temporarily override the rights and freedoms in sections 2 and 7-15 for up to five years, subject to renewal.

This only goes to show that your typical Canadian Farker is ignorant as his American counterpart.

How is invoking the notwithstanding clause revoking the Charter?

... which has never been done, not to say that I couldn't or wouldn't. But any party who would use it irresponsibly would likely pay the political consequences.

The American Bill of Rights is just as enshrined in the American Constitution as the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is in the Canadian Constitution.

Samsaran: The Canadians probably wanted to move to a country where there was a Bill of Rights protecting their freedom instead of a so called "Charter" which can be revoked at will by the ruling party.

I wonder what would happen if we suspended Habeas Corpus?

Those numbers are only going to increase as global warming melts their igloos and their homeless population explodes.

milk_plus: A lot of the Indian guys at work become Canadian citizens first. I'm not really sure how it's easier but they say it is and it's really common.

I know that our system is based on skills - the more you have, the better your chances of getting in. It's all about what you bring to the table. I thought the US system was very similar.

whereisian 2007-08-01 08:35:50 PM
I wonder what would happen if we suspended Habeas Corpus?

I wouldn't advise that. The last person that tried it got shot in the back of the head.

A Dark Evil Omen: I'm a Canadian expat living in Seattle.

There is precious little I actually qualitatively like about the US, in general, more than Canada. Very specifically, however, I really, really like two places: Seattle, WA and Annapolis, MD.

/And I take my politics pretty farking seriously
//Hard-line socialist, yo


And your socialist dumb ass is still here? Well no shiat sherlock you don't like private health care, you're a socialist. If the only 2 place in the US you like are Annapolis and Seattle, I'd say that's the only 2 places you visited.

If you dropped your idiot politics-for-losers for 2 minutes you'd see that the US and Canada have some pretty swell people and places in them, but you're much, much, to angry to be bothered with happyness I guess.

whereisian: How is invoking the notwithstanding clause revoking the Charter?

... which has never been done, not to say that I couldn't or wouldn't. But any party who would use it irresponsibly would likely pay the political consequences.

How is invoking the notwithstanding clause revoking the Charter?

... which has never been done, not to say that I couldn't or wouldn't. But any party who would use it irresponsibly would likely pay the political consequences.

Its not revoking it genius ... only suspending ... indefinitely ... ALL the protected civil rights and freedoms it supposedly guarantees.

The US Bill of Rights CANNOT be suspended at all nor revoked by the party in power absent of course a constitutional amendment which is quite a different thing.

This is what Canadians always do ... first they deny that such a clause exists ... then when confronted with the facts they hem and haw and say "well its never been done".

Man now that is some scary stuff. Imagine if GWB and the Republicans (back when they controlled both houses of Congress) could have arbitrarily and without judicial review or appeal SUSPENDED the Bill of Rights for five years.

Chew on that one for awhile.

AgentOrangeDrink: fanbladesaresharp: Vancouver is pretty. And cleaner IMO.

Than what? A bag of assholes? I love Vancouver and think it's the best place in Canada, but half this city smells like piss.

Well if you add the heroin junkies and puke...