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(CBS13.com - CBS Sacramento)   'Beaver-Wetter', 'Aikin-Johnson' 'Wacker-Dailey' and more in this cutting-edge expose on when NOT to hyphenate your name (pics)   (cbs13.com) divider line 293
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23754 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2007 at 2:25 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-08-01 05:11:40 PM
factoryconnection: More than half of all marriages end in divorce. Not according to the New York Times; their report indicates approximately a 41% and falling rate. Plus, and I don't have a citation for this one, people fare worse in their chances on subsequent marriages, which would skew the statistics in the cynics favor.

However, I do agree that many peoples' idea of marriage is total BS. If you aren't in love when you say "I do," you are probably already farked and your name is likely Heddin-Sand.


I just discovered the quote button /blush

That said. Part of that falling trend is couples choosing not to get married and still having a family, shared expenses, etc. I'm not sure if civil unions and the like get counted as well.
 
2007-08-01 05:14:21 PM
farkII: MissMalice: i just cant stand to put my kids in daycare every day of thier early years just so we can have a nice tv and a big SUV.

What if it's so you can continue your professional career, so the kids can have a college savings, and you can both fund your retirement? There are many reasons for both spouses to work beyond simply accumulating material goods. And some daycare is actually pretty good...my kids learned sign language, Spanish, all sorts of groovy stuff before preschool due to their daycare. Also got to spend lots of time around a diverse group of kids, much more so than our neighborhood offers. No regrets at all on my end, and my wife got to continue in her career, which she finds rewarding as well. It's not just about the money-- if that was the goal, I could have taken another job myself or simply gone into the trades rather than getting a Ph.D.. Plumber often make more than college faculty these days, as it turns out.


i am an admin at a camera store right now (22 years old, still figuring out what i want to do with my life) so really i dont have a career that i would be "sacrificing".
the stay at home mom thing is just what i want,but as i said before, if my husbands job cant support that i will fully work. and i am sure there are wonderful daycares out there.
and if i marry my boyfriend i wont need to worry about my children not learning other languages or anything. they will be taught greek, and however much spanish i remember/re-learn.
 
2007-08-01 05:14:31 PM
cerberus9: if i ever get married i'll demand my new wife keep her own last name. i don't believe in the traditional husband/wife dynamic thing. women are not possessions anymore.

If that's the way you feel, why would you even bother getting married?


Because bucking tradition is one thing, and fighting a legal system that favors "real" marriage is another? My wife and I were unmarried partners for six years before legally getting married-- both names on deeds/titles, single bank account, etc. --and often ran into trouble with our marital status in even simple situations. Society and its institutions assume that marriage=stability, despite the obscenely high divorce rate. Being unmarried usually means you can't be insured by one partner's policy. If an unmarried partner ends up critically ill or dies, the other partner has very few rights with regard to visitation or property. Having children can complicate things even more.

We got married to avoid these problems, but also to demonstrate our commitment to friends and family-- esp. the younger ones, many of whom had seen only unplanned pregnancies, elopement, divorce and serial marriages from the adults in their lives. It was as much for them as for ourselves. 20 years later there's a piece of paper in a box somewhere in our house that says we're married, and we have rings we didn't wear before. Not much else has changed though (including my wife's name). It's the lives we lead and the happiness of our children that we hope demonstrates to the younger generation that commitment is important and relationships take work, married or not.
 
2007-08-01 05:15:01 PM
What happens if these people hyphenate their names, and then their kids get married and hyphenate their names?

In a couple of generations, we'll have some poor woman named Ima Weener-Butts-Crapp-Beer-Cox-Looney-Bush-Beaver-Favors-Quick.

Then, and only then, will men and women truly be equal.

/My wife changed her name but still uses her own name professionally
 
2007-08-01 05:16:45 PM
Reminds me of the firm I once worked for:
Dewey, Cheatam & Howe
 
2007-08-01 05:17:16 PM
sseye

/My wife changed her name but still uses her own name professionally

I hate to break it to you, but "Hootie McBoob" probably isn't her "own" name...
 
2007-08-01 05:17:22 PM
meat0918

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to vent my spleen at other posters on you. Sounds like we actually agree. Part of why I want to continue my career is because my own stay-at-home mother was bitter, resentful, and intellectually frustrated, and I've always thought I would've been better off if she just went back to work where she was happier. My husband and I also want to have enough savings to send our boy to whatever college he wants to go to.

Regardless, it is still amazing to me the opinions other people feel free to share with me. Sounds like your wife has had similar experiences.
 
2007-08-01 05:17:23 PM
factoryconnection: More than half of all marriages end in divorce. Not according to the New York Times; their report indicates approximately a 41% and falling rate. Plus, and I don't have a citation for this one, people fare worse in their chances on subsequent marriages, which would skew the statistics in the cynics favor.

A more interesting (and useful) statistic would be the percentage of first marriages that fail within the first ten years. As you note, a lot of that "50% divorce rate" are failed second/third/fourth marriages. I'd also like to see stats on the duration of non-married partnerships over time...I know many couple that have been together, unmarried, over decades. They certainly count for more in my mind that Brittney's 24 hour "marriage" would.
 
2007-08-01 05:17:31 PM
cerberus9
Thanks for playing Devil's Advocate, but I would suggest that you read Farmers Market's earlier post. His initial argument was that men who take on their wives' names are pussies because that act holds stigma in society, which makes no sense. You give him too much credit.

For the record, I do not think that the traditions are wholly arbitrary, nor do I think that they should be ruled out in all cases. I merely object to tradition for its on sake and the fact that the taking of the man's name is a default condition. Individuals should be free to make a choice in the matter without undo consequences.
 
2007-08-01 05:18:26 PM
meat0918: MissMalice, you and my wife would get along great.

My wife insisted on taking my name, and she is an intelligent and funny woman. She loves shocking the PC people with her barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen making pie true story.

She wanted kids early, we have two (and only two /snip).
We also share all the duties of keeping house. When I have the kids on the weekend days she is helping her step-dad with drywall and painting jobs, I am always amazed that she has the energy she does after dealing with two boys all day while I am at my 8-5 desk job.


I love my life, although I could have done without the pretentious ladies that started treating my wife like she had the plague because she was pregnant and *GASP* married to boot, as she continued to attend class Winter AND Summer semesters until she was put on bed rest for over doing it.

She was actually told, "Oh honey, you're not pregnant, that's a beer belly."


/to stay on topic, Hardy-Harr was lame.


i kind of want to meet your wife.
 
2007-08-01 05:19:17 PM
Dreamless: wives' names are pussies because that act holds stigma in society, which makes no sense. You give him too much credit.

For the record, I do not think that the traditions are wholly arbitrary, nor do I think that they should be ruled out in all cases. I merely object to tradition for its on sake and the fact that the taking of the man's name is a default condition. Individuals should be free to make a choice in the matter without undo consequences.


Fair enough.
 
2007-08-01 05:21:47 PM
ThurmanMerman: meat0918

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to vent my spleen at other posters on you. Sounds like we actually agree. Part of why I want to continue my career is because my own stay-at-home mother was bitter, resentful, and intellectually frustrated, and I've always thought I would've been better off if she just went back to work where she was happier. My husband and I also want to have enough savings to send our boy to whatever college he wants to go to.

Regardless, it is still amazing to me the opinions other people feel free to share with me. Sounds like your wife has had similar experiences.


my mom tried the stay at home mom thing for a while and it did the same thing to her. she was much happier at work.
so needless to say, my bro and i spent a lot of time in daycare and at our grandparents. (my dad has always worked out of town and has to travel back and forth every week)
i never really got to spend any time with my parents until i moved away from home and now get to see them once every two months.
 
2007-08-01 05:24:37 PM
meat0918: I just discovered the quote button /blush

QFT... My married name is Ima-Toole LOL

farkII: A more interesting (and useful) statistic would be the percentage of first marriages that fail within the first ten years. As you note, a lot of that "50% divorce rate" are failed second/third/fourth marriages. I'd also like to see stats on the duration of non-married partnerships over time...I know many couple that have been together, unmarried, over decades. They certainly count for more in my mind that Brittney's 24 hour "marriage" would.

I totally agree but I didn't have the willpower to unearth such a study. Britney's fiasco is the perfect retort to the "gheys will ruin the sanctity of mawagez!!!" Too late, beaten to it by the rest of society.
 
2007-08-01 05:26:19 PM
I saw my mom pretty much every day of my life when I was a kid, and now I see her twice a year, if that. So I don't think the quantity of time spent with your kid is necessarily paramount. To paraphrase meat, you can be a stay-at-home mother and still fail at parenting.
 
2007-08-01 05:27:03 PM
maereth: I don't know if many men appreciate this... but changing your name is a shiatload of work. Social security, passport services, bank information, credit cards, drivers license, car insurance, 401k, everything. Back when my mom changed her last name, she didn't have all of these things to worry about.

OMG, that's like 3 hours of paper work!
 
2007-08-01 05:27:31 PM
Snakeophelia: My husband wouldn't have dreamt of asking me to go through the hassle (and yes, with new DL, new SS card, new passport, new company ID, etc, it would have been a hassle) of changing my name just for the sake of showing the world how "unified" we are. How ridiculous.

So let me get this straight, your reason for not changing your last name was because of the " hassle (and yes, with new DL, new SS card, new passport, new company ID, etc, it would have been a hassle) of changing my name just for the sake of showing the world how "unified" we are."

Yet you obviously went through the "hassle" of having some sort of wedding to show the "world how "unified we are" (remember a marriage is a matter of public record) but standing in that DMV line for 30 minutes was just too much to handle, huh?
 
2007-08-01 05:38:10 PM
factoryconnection: A more interesting (and useful) statistic would be the percentage of first marriages that fail within the first ten years. As you note, a lot of that "50% divorce rate" are failed second/third/fourth marriages. I'd also like to see stats on the duration of non-married partnerships over time...I know many couple that have been together, unmarried, over decades. They certainly count for more in my mind that Brittney's 24 hour "marriage" would.

I totally agree but I didn't have the willpower to unearth such a study


The best easy-to-access collection of divorce data (new window) predicts that I am personally 101% less likely to get divorced (new window) than the average American. If only I'd belonged to a church, it would be 115%!

There's a ton of great census data (new window) on marriage, including the finding that only 20% of marriages end in divorce by ten years. You have to go to 50 years of marriage to reach even 40% divorce rate according to their data.

/unless she hyphenates
//then all bets are off
 
2007-08-01 05:41:49 PM
Pat Muwheenie?

got.
nothin.
 
2007-08-01 05:43:50 PM
I vote for Wang-Holder and Busch-Rash as the best.
 
2007-08-01 05:51:12 PM
Dreamless: Ah, your deconstructionist approach = FAIL.

Let's see, what takes more courage: making a choice that could lead to loss of face in general society by refusing to cling to outmoded traditions? or avoiding novel choices to avoid the aforementioned stigma? Hmm...

Although I really shouldn't lower myself to your level, I'll respond to your a/s/l query: I'm a dude.

/my balls are bigger than your brain
//which isn't really saying much


Heh, sure, its all about courage. Good ol shaming language indeed. Yeah, I'm all about bucking trends like being Mr. Mom etc. (watch out for the maternal gatekeepers tho) but lets not pussy foot around the consequences of such choices. I'd consider you lucky if you've never known or heard about a couple that ultimately breaks up because the woman or the man can't handle the stress (internal and the external from society) of being bread winner, home/caregiver or even just the "leader" role in the marriage. Time/newsweek other mainstream media has articles all around about failing marriages with women as main breadwinners (often where the name change debate comes from). The greatest irony are the women earners who take on the typical "old school patriarchal" attitudes of their fathers/grandfathers that since they make the money, they make all the final decisions. Something their mothers/aunties/grannies/great grannies railed against in the past 50 years. Then they wonder why the marriage failed... Sort of like men who marry women who aren't/dont care to be a doormat or totally controlled and then wonder why their wives leave them.

Some people may realize they can't/won't/don't want to handle that stress. Some of it is cowardace sure, other times its common sense to make the best choice for yourself. Its hard to fight social convention/cultural history (things don't change overnight, something a lot of westerners dont seem to understand at all IMHO) and sometimes that social fabric has developed for a reason.
 
2007-08-01 05:55:05 PM
farm1.static.flickr.com

Now kids- you know very well my name is Chokesondick, NOT "Makesmesick"!
 
2007-08-01 06:00:21 PM
farkII: PinkoLeftist: Honestly, as long as I, the male/husband in the marriage am thus viewed by society as the default main person responsible for finanical support/protection etc. in a marriage (you know, where a wife can cheat on me yet still get full custody of the kids,the house, alimony, and a large child support check each month), then one of the benefits for all those responsibilities/consequences is that my wife takes my last name and carries on the patrilineal family line.

You know, if you go into marriage with attitudes like this it's a pretty good bet you'll end up divorced.

/just sayin'


The odds of me getting married are rather low these days, much to my mother's chagrin (wants grandkids badly). Sadly, most people will blame it on my own parents divorce (I was fairly keen on the idea of marriage until my early 20s..) and that I'm your typical fat (my own fault, no one elses) geeky guy. Instead of blaming the horrid state of gender relations and divorce laws in the west. I don't fear commitment, I worry sure, no one should just jump into it but I dont fear it. I fear the consequences should things fall apart. Odds are if it does, it ruins me for the rest of my life and likely the lives of any kids I have.
 
2007-08-01 06:00:31 PM
PinkoLeftist

Please come back off of that tangent. Nowhere in my post did I deny (or even address) the fact that being a breadwinner is stressful. My post merely concerned the taking on of a spouse's name. My point was that it often takes courage to do things that expose one to loss of face and stigma. I nowhere denounced those who assume the role of breadwinner.
 
2007-08-01 06:08:55 PM
Before we got married, my wife asked me how I felt about her keeping her last name. I told her that it was her choice, and either name was fine with me. Turns out she didn't particularly care for her last name (too hard to spell and pronounce), but was curious how I felt about it. My answer was the one she was looking for. As far as forbidding her to keep her name, or pretty much anything else, that doesn't happen. Reverse is also true. It's a partnership, and we both have our individual lives and interests, in addition to our life together. It's a good life, and every one wins.
 
2007-08-01 06:11:35 PM
enderthexenocide: if i ever get married i'll demand my new wife keep her own last name. i don't believe in the traditional husband/wife dynamic thing. women are not possessions anymore.

No but men sure often seemed to be viewed as such these days, and often easily interchangeable. Walking wallets and sperm donors. "Fathers" in name only. The pendulum has swung the other way, it sure isn't equal. I would consider my wife a posession, or rather that I would own her in a way. I'd have exclusive rights. She could leave, but have consequences if she does. And vice versa, she'd own me, have exclusive rights and if I left there would be consequences.
 
2007-08-01 06:28:01 PM
Dreamless: PinkoLeftist

Please come back off of that tangent. Nowhere in my post did I deny (or even address) the fact that being a breadwinner is stressful. My post merely concerned the taking on of a spouse's name. My point was that it often takes courage to do things that expose one to loss of face and stigma. I nowhere denounced those who assume the role of breadwinner.


Sorry, I thought it was a valid tangent behind the whole name change argument and the courage argument. You attacked saying they were a coward for not taking on that risk of stigma (and that you had balls bigger than their head iirc). I said that while it takes courage to face that loss of face, shaming their lack of courage is not always a fair argument given the whole picture in our society and tried to provide examples as such. It not as easy as saying, "cowboy up" or "grow some balls and buck societal trends".

A women who is a doormat, a "mouse" is often told to grow strong, or "be independant" and often that is wise advice. A man who is a doormat, takes his wife's name, is her "biatch" and thus called a wuss, wimp etc, calling him that is always wrong, or "cro magnon" or "patriarchal"? Shouldn't we be telling him to stand up for himself, be independant as well? I've come across men (and often caught myself) who do all that "sensitive stuff" for women and then get dumped for not "being a man". Meh, whatever.
 
2007-08-01 06:54:31 PM
Dick-Hertz
 
2007-08-01 07:14:44 PM
Poo-Nanny
 
2007-08-01 07:43:17 PM
I'm getting married next month and taking my husband's last name, mostly for convenience.

I live in Japan and since my name has both an "L" and an "R" in it, it is absolutely impossible to get people to even hear it correctly, let alone pronounce it. Whenever I call for a taxi or a pizza or a hotel reservation or anything I have to repeat it about 5 times and spell it out syllable by syllable. It will be such a relief to have a nice normal Japanese name that everyone can read and pronounce on the first try.
 
2007-08-01 07:52:39 PM
Holy cow. There are about as many reasons a woman/a couple might decide to keep their own names, hyphenate, or change his/her/both names as there are ways to have a happy (or unhappy) marriage. Relax and have a Crapp-Beer y'all.
 
2007-08-01 07:52:41 PM
Knew a girl who married a guy, she kept her last name of Smith. Even tho her first name was Susan. You know, like the child killer?

Because even Susan Smith is better than Susan Horr.
 
2007-08-01 08:40:16 PM
I guess I'm a huge retard if someone else has already pointed this out, but all of you do realize that they always list the man's name and the maiden name in the wedding announcement, right? Right?

It has nothing to do with hyphenated last names.
 
2007-08-01 09:22:09 PM
isn't this a repost?
 
2007-08-01 09:53:24 PM
ROWAN13:
I'm not saying a woman should be forced to take her husband's last name. What I AM saying is taking your husband's last name does not mean you are a helpless victim of patriarchal rule.


Neither am I. I don't care whose name anyone takes, or if they both keep their own names.

However, the fact remains that the tradition is a throwback to more patriarchal times. As is much of the tradition surrounding weddings. However, even many of the most independant women want their daddy to walk them down the aisle.

People buck tradition all the time. I just find it odd that this tradition seems to mean so much to people.
 
2007-08-01 11:19:58 PM
I just came here to say:
Johann Gambolputty-de-von-Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dangle -dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-k notty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kürstlich-himbleeisen-bah nwagen-gutenabend-bitte-eine-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mit-zweimache-lube r-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-raucher-von-Hautkopft of Ulm.
 
2007-08-02 12:46:30 AM
Jizz-Gobbler
 
2007-08-02 03:20:32 AM
At my job, I once saw the last name Garlick-Roll.
 
2007-08-02 03:58:27 AM
MORE WEDDING ANNOUNCEMENT PICS PLEASE!!!
 
2007-08-02 05:51:12 AM
Dr.Knockboots: Any female with a hyphenated last name is a pretentious coont.

I work with a person who has a really long last name. She was married and wanted to hyphenate it. Fine, submit the paperwork to HR and I'll rename your network and email accounts.

2 months later she's now tired of typing it over and over again. I suggested to her that she could keep her old account, but no, she HAD to hyphenate it. Now she's regretting having to type in nearly 30 characters when she logs on to the server and whenever she checks her email.

/points and laughs
 
2007-08-02 12:55:07 PM
When I worked in the shipping office at a university, we had to ship out some school books to a man by the name of Peter Grabber.

Peter Grabber.

Must be a big hit at all the gay clubs...
 
2007-08-02 02:32:14 PM
I am a pretentious coont, so I am getting a kick out of some of these replies......


I hyphenated for a number of different reasons.

1. I have multiple papers published under my maiden name and for consistencies sake, I am keeping my rather obscure maiden name as part of my name. There are only 2 of us on Pubmed.
2. My husbands last name is rather common and boring. I am sure that there are scads of women with my first name, Lisa, and my very common husbands last name. It will help with credit reporting, etc.
3. I don't give a shiat what you think.

Kids will have Daddy's last name and mine as a middle name.
 
2007-08-02 04:01:11 PM
I know i guy named Zucker with the middle name Richard. Get it? Dick Zucker?
/Hardy Harr
 
2007-08-02 09:20:19 PM
If Tuesday Weld married Hal March III, she'd be Tuesday March 3rd.
 
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