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(Newsday)   Desecrating the Koran considered a hate crime. Desecrating the Bible and the Flag still OK   (newsday.com) divider line 182
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1873 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jul 2007 at 6:26 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-07-29 02:21:11 AM
Subby nailed it 100%.

Ain't islam great?
 
2007-07-29 02:30:06 AM
Islam: Don't FARK with us! Our lawyers own you!!
 
2007-07-29 02:31:10 AM
None of them deserve legal protections...
 
2007-07-29 02:31:16 AM
Mighty_Dog: Subby nailed it 100%.

Yeah, that's why burning crosses on people's lawns is so farking legal and not a hate crime at all.
 
2007-07-29 02:34:01 AM
I have always found it quite interesting how an ethos that produces so many people willing to blow themselves up is so easily offended. Seems pretty disingenuous to me...
 
2007-07-29 02:34:23 AM
My God is better than your God
My God is better than yours
My dog is better cause he eats kenalrations
My dog is better than yours!!1
 
2007-07-29 02:35:27 AM
How long before they make it a hate crime to say that god and allah don't actually exist?
 
2007-07-29 02:39:12 AM
doyner: Seems pretty disingenuous to me...

So is the submitter.
 
2007-07-29 02:42:23 AM
Sun God: doyner: Seems pretty disingenuous to me...

So is the submitter.


That one is guilty does not absolve the other.
 
2007-07-29 02:44:14 AM
hmmmm....I'm sure the vandalism, criminal destruction of property and harassment had NOTHING to do with it....
 
2007-07-29 02:46:21 AM
dameron: Mighty_Dog: Subby nailed it 100%.

Yeah, that's why burning crosses on people's lawns is so farking legal and not a hate crime at all.


Like they say, there's no leather like..

images-eu.amazon.com
 
2007-07-29 02:46:48 AM
Mighty_Dog: Ain't islam great?

It's American PC, and it sucks.
 
2007-07-29 02:50:18 AM
This is why I floss my crotch with every major religious text when I get up in the morning. It takes a lot of time.
 
2007-07-29 02:54:24 AM
Mighty_Dog: Subby nailed it 100%.

dameron: Yeah, that's why burning crosses on people's lawns is so farking legal and not a hate crime at all.



Uhh... what?
 
2007-07-29 02:55:58 AM
If I buy a Quran and throw it in my toilet, that would be a crime? Oh, wait no it wouldn't.

Dont be stupid.
 
2007-07-29 02:56:36 AM
dameron: that's why burning crosses on people's lawns is so farking legal and not a hate crime at all

0 to batshiat crazy in 4 posts.

I'm sure we can all agree that the law can intervene if someone piles Korans up on your lawn and lights them on fire. Or lights anything else on fire, for that matter.
 
2007-07-29 02:56:54 AM
Mighty_Dog: Uhh... what?

I know, I've heard it kinda burns at first then it settles down.

Try to breath your way through it, then push, once your ears are clear you should be able relax the sphincter enough that the rest of your head pops out without too much trouble.

Then I'd suggest a quick shampoo.
 
2007-07-29 02:57:38 AM
Mighty_Dog: Uhh... what?

Dumbass.
 
2007-07-29 03:00:04 AM
I find it tempting to buy a stack and throw one into every soiled toilet at Port Authority in NYC.

Then, make a hundred "press button-receive bacon" stickers and put them on all the hand dryers.

Hate crime? What Fred Phelps does, is a hate crime, yet he remains free.
 
2007-07-29 03:02:03 AM
Golden_Eternity: 0 to batshiat crazy in 4 posts.

I'm sure we can all agree that the law can intervene if someone piles Korans up on your lawn and lights them on fire. Or lights anything else on fire, for that matter.


Yeah, the reason you can't burn a cross on someone's lawn is because it's a fire hazard... Right.
 
2007-07-29 03:06:53 AM
I wonder if the ACLU will get involved. Other than the obvious vandalism (clogging toilets), isn't this an expression of an opinion about religion. Isn't the government denying that expression a violation of the separation of church and state?

Desecrating the Bible and the Flag still OK

That should be a shining example of the way things should be, not a call for more law enforcement.
 
2007-07-29 03:10:14 AM
As an atheist, it's hard for me to talk about these incidents. I think you should be able to flush any BS fairy tale "holy book" down the toilet, however when a bunch of Christians gang up on Muslims in a "my invisible man club is better than yours" act of intimidation I really think it's unfair.

Basically, I just wish people weren't so stupid and childish. Westernized American Muslims are pretty laid back. Leave them alone.
 
2007-07-29 03:12:03 AM
doyner: That one is guilty does not absolve the other.

If you're a Christian it does.
 
2007-07-29 03:16:00 AM
Ah yes... it's quickly morphing into a christian bashing thread.

We're on Fark.com, alright - and in perfect keeping with subby's header.


Classic.
 
2007-07-29 03:16:50 AM
Mighty_Dog: Ain't islam great?

Sun God: If you're a Christian it does.

I don't know why, even if it was for only a split second, thought this might be an interesting thread.

There's going to be a few unoccupied bridges tonight
 
2007-07-29 03:19:25 AM
Mighty_Dog: Ah yes... it's quickly morphing into a christian bashing thread.

We're on Fark.com, alright - and in perfect keeping with subby's header.


Classic.


You're seeing things, hellbent. I don't see much christian bashing in this thread.

Don't let that get in the way of your persecution complex.
 
2007-07-29 03:25:52 AM
Christian bashing?

"I wish never to see Fletcher Christian again, unless it is to see him hang."

- Captain Bligh.
 
2007-07-29 03:26:28 AM
i61.photobucket.com
 
2007-07-29 03:29:36 AM
Silly Muslims. There is no supreme being.
 
2007-07-29 03:32:33 AM
Mighty_Dog: Ah yes... it's quickly morphing into a christian bashing thread.

Don't worry. I'm sure there will be plenty of islam bashing too. We are equal opportunity bashers around here, don't ya know?
 
2007-07-29 03:44:21 AM
There is no such thing as a "hate crime". The 1st amendment protects freedom of expression.

A crime is a crime. The perpetrators rationale for commiting a crime doesn't make it any more or less of a crime.
 
2007-07-29 03:59:54 AM
usedcorn: There is no such thing as a "hate crime". The 1st amendment protects freedom of expression.

There sort of is and sort of isn't such a thing as a "hate crime." Harassment and trespassing are crimes. But, just because your neighbor simply doesn't like you for whatever reason, or if you don't like them for whatever reason, is no cause for hate crime accusations.
 
2007-07-29 04:00:04 AM
usedcorn: There is no such thing as a "hate crime". The 1st amendment protects freedom of expression.

A crime is a crime. The perpetrators rationale for commiting a crime doesn't make it any more or less of a crime.


Both of these rather common misconceptions were addressed in Wisconsin v. Mitchell 1) because, by definition, the "crime" part of "hate crime" is an act that's already illegal (i.e. not protected speech) and 2) the SCOTUS (unanimously) found, specifically, that the law allows the lower courts to use motive in sentencing (like courts already do for any number of other offenses, like murder).
 
2007-07-29 06:26:34 AM
dameron: SCOTUS (unanimously) found, specifically, that the law allows the lower courts to use motive in sentencing (like courts already do for any number of other offenses, like murder).

I don't see how that's not a violation of the first amendment. If you kill a guy because you hate him you should get the same sentence regardless of why you hate him.

The fact is, if you hate him because of his race, religion or sexual orientation you'll get life without. If you hate him because he has a stupid haircut and his mom dresses him funny you'll be out in twenty.

How is that not a thought crime?
 
2007-07-29 06:36:37 AM
In order for it to be a "hate crime," doesnt it first have to be a 'crime?'
Are we not free to flush our texts? (provided we own the text in questions and it does not damage the public plumbing system.)
 
2007-07-29 06:37:11 AM
Of course a "hate crime" is a ridiculous concept, and shouldn't ever have been enacted, but i'm not going to clamor to protect the victims of "hate crime laws" any faster than those of "capital punishment laws".
 
2007-07-29 06:44:36 AM
Not sure from the article - but is destroying the koran actually illegal, or is it just a case of a university attempting to be "proactive" and intimidate the perp to stop?

If the destruction of the koran was actually illegal in New York - which I doubt - then the submit has a point when equating it with the bible. In america, you should be free to destroy both, if you so desire. Anything else would be a slap in the face of the principles upon which the country was founded.

Note to submitter - the flag is not a religous object on the same level as the koran or the bible.
 
2007-07-29 06:46:33 AM
I fart in the general direction of ANY religion. Fark Mohamed, and Allah, and Jesus, and Moses too. If you're going to put any weight into any religion, then you deserve to be led around like the clueless sheep you are. Who the fark gave the Imams, the Rabbis, the Priests or the Reverands the right or the knowledge to tell me what to do? Grow a brain, toss religion out the door, and realize this conflict for what it is, a blatant grab for power, a classic I'm-right-you're-wrong and if you disagree with me i'm going to kill you.
 
2007-07-29 06:51:34 AM
gasdf2002: I don't see how that's not a violation of the first amendment. If you kill a guy because you hate him you should get the same sentence regardless of why you hate him.

That's a somewhat interesting thing to say, but it doesn't hold up morally. It's called begging the question, in that you probably shouldn't kill other people regardless of just about everything.
 
2007-07-29 06:53:38 AM
Time to start proecuting those evil doers of Love Crimes!

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
 
2007-07-29 07:00:22 AM
FTFA: NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.

Nomatter who you are or what you do, to have throwing a bible of any kind in the toilet be considered a crime of ANY sort is absolute BULLSHIAT of the HIGHEST degree.

Really.
How the hell is there a point of debate here? That there are charges in the first place, is just - asinine.

submitter: Desecrating the Bible and the Flag still OK

The Koran is a bible.
 
2007-07-29 07:10:29 AM
tomcatadam: The Koran is a bible.

Actually, the Koran is the Koran, it's a separate religious text, like the Mormon texts and the Torah. Just an FYI. It was built on the old and new testaments. And just offering my 2 cents, you shouldn't be allowed to build you own religion on the shoulders of a previous one. All HAIL ZEUS!!!

 
2007-07-29 07:12:28 AM
Why the hell do we need hate crime?

A crime is a crime and someone who does it should be punished the same penalty throughout. But apparently in a crime it's the thought that counts.

So what's next full out thoughtcrime?
 
2007-07-29 07:14:42 AM
reach4xtc: Actually, the Koran is the Koran, it's a separate religious text, like the Mormon texts and the Torah. Just an FYI. It was built on the old and new testaments. And just offering my 2 cents, you shouldn't be allowed to build you own religion on the shoulders of a previous one. All HAIL ZEUS!!!

Actually, the Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament. Just clarifying.

Mighty_Dog: Ah yes... it's quickly morphing into a christian bashing thread.

We're on Fark.com, alright - and in perfect keeping with subby's header.

Classic.


Jesus whined less than you, and his cross was literal.

That said, this shouldn't be considered a crime. The work of an utter asshat, certainly, but not a crime unless the Koran was someone else's copy or done as a specific act of intimidation (like burning a cross).
 
2007-07-29 07:16:28 AM
i125.photobucket.com
i125.photobucket.com
 
2007-07-29 07:28:38 AM
m2313: So what's next full out thoughtcrime?

Thinking is not a crime. You are perfectly free to express your ideas anywhere and at anytime, as long as you don't endanger other people, or break existing laws. You are not a martyr.
 
2007-07-29 07:32:37 AM
I think the subby's point was that you can do pretty much anything you want to the Bible and the Flag without fear of retribution from the government; state, local, or federal. However, this freedom does not seem to transfer to anything with the word Islam in it.

One thing that does surprise me, is that the gay 'artist' Charles Merill, cousin of the founder of Merill-Lynch, just burned a very rare and "important" copy of the Koran valued at over sixty grand and there has not been one peep out of CAIR or any other major muslim group. No protests, no riots, no nothing.

Merill has also blacked out sections in the Bible with ink marker and taken and also cut out the offending anti-gay verses.

My problem with hate crimes is where does the blame game start and stop? Is this artist the "hatemonger" for desecrating the Koran and the Bible, or are the Christians and Muslims automatically guilty of hate crimes for just following their religion's beliefs?

The irony with the whole "please the muslims, or else be sued/arrested for hate crimes" is that islam is one of the most intolerant religions period. What bothers me is that Christianity and Islam can say the same exact things about each other in both their respective texts, but the Christians are almost always painted as the bad guys.

funny that CAIR has chosen to pursue a college student for hate crimes against the Koran, but won't go after a well connected and rich artist for doing the same thing.
 
2007-07-29 07:34:11 AM
This shouldn't be a hate crime, or a crime for that matter. Unless you count littering or vandalism (of the toilets, that is).

But the idea of hate crimes is a legitimate one. When a person is attacked because of the group that he belongs to, it is an attempt to intimidate that entire group. There are actually two crimes: the physical act, and the implicit threat of action against others of that group. Threatening to harm someone IS a crime, after all, and in the case of a hate crime it is a threat against a large group of people.
 
2007-07-29 07:37:31 AM
Personally, I don't think motive should be taken into account at all when sentencing any crime. It's too presumptuous and inconsistent.
 
2007-07-29 07:48:00 AM
mediaho Personally, I don't think motive should be taken into account at all when sentencing any crime. It's too presumptuous and inconsistent.

If the threat is clear, then that is not an issue. If the threat is not clear, then it is not a hate crime.
 
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