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(CNN)   Congress keeps public-broadcasting funding intact, rejecting notions that PBS and NPR are "too liberally biased" to maintain funding   (cnn.com) divider line 745
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7801 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2007 at 3:17 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-07-20 05:49:19 PM
I know people here like to quote the Tenth Amendment, but it was gutted years ago by the Supreme Court.

"Another often-repeated quote, from United States v. Darby, 312 U.S. 100, 124 (1941), states:

The amendment states but a truism that all is retained which has not been surrendered. There is nothing in the history of its adoption to suggest that it was more than declaratory of the relationship between the national and state governments as it had been established by the Constitution before the amendment or that its purpose was other than to allay fears that the new national government might seek to exercise powers not granted, and that the states might not be able to exercise fully their reserved powers."
 
2007-07-20 05:50:22 PM
Korovyov: servoled --
Amendments have the ability to override previous text. Note that the tenth amendment is an amendment, and can therefore override prior material -- the same way it would be blatantly illegal to treat the 'general welfare' clause as permission to shut down allegedly 'bad for society' dissident media, or to establish a supposedly good-for-everybody state church.


They "can", but it depends on how they are written. The 10th amendment reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

If the power to spend money is delegated to the legislative branch, then it doesn't transfer to the states/people since it doesn't fall under the category of "power not delegated" or "prohibited by it to the states" and therefore the 10th amendment doesn't apply in this case.
 
Oak
2007-07-20 05:50:39 PM
stryker4526: anything not EXPLICITLY granted to the feds, worded in NO uncertain terms, is unconstitutional. Therefore almost every law, administration, gov't organization, armed forces, etc. are unconstitutional.

Y'know, that's the first well-informed, intelligent thing you've said in the thread. And you meant it ironically. That's funny.
 
2007-07-20 05:50:45 PM
theres a reason why pbs folks (Jim Leher, Glen Olsen, Tavis Smiley) have a lock on the moderator for presidentail debates......

I REALLY want to see McLaughlin get that gig sometime.
 
2007-07-20 05:51:00 PM
Korovyov: Atillathepun --
Military power falls under "prepare for the common defense".


Ah, but the argument here is about EXPLICIT powers. As I don't see the Air Force mentioned, then we'd have to prepare for the common defense in other ways.

If you're going to give latitude to "prepare for the general defense" then you have to do the same for "provide for the general welfare".
 
2007-07-20 05:51:48 PM
Turn the whole thing into the Bob Ross channel.

/Dude should have his own religion.
//Bobianity
 
2007-07-20 05:51:51 PM
mmm... pancake: Wisdom on the other hand...

probably derives its sagacity from reality....
 
2007-07-20 05:52:16 PM
Basically those networks let you know how profoundly farking stupid you are. They have to erase that. No one wanted to have a beer with PBS anyways.
 
2007-07-20 05:52:42 PM
mmm... pancake: fark'emfeed'emfish: I believe that "public broadcasting" would fall under independent press.

How is a Government taxpayer funded press independent? He who pays the fiddler picks the tunes, my friend.


fify
 
2007-07-20 05:52:59 PM
bheilig Quote 2007-07-20 03:36:19 PM
That's hilarious. When people call NPR "liberal", that makes me wonder if I should start voting Democrat!

NPR is the only serious, interesting news program I have ever listened to or heard of, period.

Sometimes I ride in other people's trucks, and they want to listen to CBS Radio or something, and my mind just convulses. Is this some kind of cruel joke? Honestly, try NPR for a week, just ten minutes a day, and you'll never go back. It is so intelligent. You learn so much. God I get kind of misty-eyed just thinking about it.
///
Steady troop. Stiff upper lip and all... This is all somewhat odd because I can't think of a single person who listens to news in the car. Usually it's cd's playing or some music station unless of course there's a really bad storm going on but that's about it.
 
2007-07-20 05:54:56 PM
Atillathepun --
The constitution explicitly states that powers necessary and proper to execute its powers -- including, say, declaring war and repelling invasions -- are also granted. Given that maintaining air superiority is, for all practical purposes, necessary in modern warfare, and that waging war is a Federal power, it extends to such.
 
2007-07-20 05:55:22 PM
Oak: stryker4526: anything not EXPLICITLY granted to the feds, worded in NO uncertain terms, is unconstitutional. Therefore almost every law, administration, gov't organization, armed forces, etc. are unconstitutional.

Y'know, that's the first well-informed, intelligent thing you've said in the thread. And you meant it ironically. That's funny.


i4.photobucket.com

Sorry, the constitution wasn't meant as an explicit enumeration of powers, and it's not. That would just be stupid.
 
2007-07-20 05:59:01 PM
Goofball Jones: I know this comment will be lost in the shuffle here, but I'll listen to NPR for my news for the simple reason that when the Paris Hilton jail BS was going down, NPR's Morning Edition didn't pay any notice to it at all. It reported more on important things and stories that people with an IQ over 80 would enjoy or find interesting.

They also don't try to fill in dead air with just a bunch of talk show people speculating on crap.


I'm with you there. I think that people complaining about the "liberal media" are out of their minds. Just about every cable news show you can watch is talking about anything but the on going debacle that is the Bush administration. It's like some kind of elaborate distraction. The "liberal media" couldn't be more helpful to Bush. It's bizarre.
 
2007-07-20 05:59:33 PM
CheetahOlivetti: Turn the whole thing into the Bob Ross channel.

/Dude should have his own religion.
//Bobianity


Word em up!
/He's the oil based gangsta
//The titanium white selecta
 
2007-07-20 06:00:15 PM
Arnold T Pants Quote 2007-07-20 03:36:46 PM
Who care about the bias? Get rid of it because the government has business making any programing, and it doesn't have the power to do so...unless you don't give a shiat about the constitution.
///

Mention the constitution to Bush & see if you don't get that deer in the headlights look from him. I seriously doubt that you'll see anything about tv in the constitution though since it was about 150 years away yet when the constitution was written.
When you're dealing with public tv though you're usually getting educational programs for kids which is something I like since they sure as hell don't learn much in school any more. I'd much rather have my tax dollars going to these types of programs instead of subsidizing corporations.
 
2007-07-20 06:00:28 PM
Another reason conservatives don't like PBS is Frontline.


FRONTLINE
(new window)

Did anyone see the episode "Return of the Taliban"?

I highly recommend watching this. It's available on-line
Link (new window)
 
2007-07-20 06:00:41 PM

Goofball_Jones --
For news, particularly of foreign affairs not directly involving the US military, yes.


I would gladly sacrifice some of their fluffier air time (interviews of entertainers, say) for more of the above. I would be far more interested in, oh, the status of labor organization and the official government-controlled union in China than about whether John Travolta is an obvious pick to star in "Hairspray".

 
2007-07-20 06:03:00 PM
How is a Government funded press independent? He who pays the fiddler picks the tunes, my friend.

You wouldn't think it at first, but the fact that it doesn't have to get ratings to make $$ keeps it pretty level headed compared to all the other rhetoric-laden crap out there.
 
2007-07-20 06:03:50 PM
NPR = truth and reality
conservatives = lies and fairy tales
 
2007-07-20 06:04:28 PM
i210.photobucket.com
 
2007-07-20 06:04:41 PM

MerlinX --
I'd much rather have my tax dollars going to these types of programs instead of subsidizing corporations.


I don't see anybody arguing "Take the money away from PBS and NPR to give it to corporations". The correct answer should be "neither", in cases where such funding is either not permissible or not appropriate.

 
2007-07-20 06:04:46 PM
Supercheeks Quote 2007-07-20 03:43:38 PM
What?!!? No
"...suck it cons!"
///
I just love it when a woman talks politics. By the way, read your bio, you have the same thing as my attorney, a retainer fetish... :)
 
2007-07-20 06:05:12 PM
Korovyov: Atillathepun --
The constitution explicitly states that powers necessary and proper to execute its powers -- including, say, declaring war and repelling invasions -- are also granted. Given that maintaining air superiority is, for all practical purposes, necessary in modern warfare, and that waging war is a Federal power, it extends to such.


You're missing the point entirely. I bring up the Air Force NOT to say that it is unconstitutional but as an example of something the Founding Fathers could not anticipate. Just as they left powers for providing for national defense open for new developments, so too did they leave general welfare open to interpretation.

I'm asking for consistency of interpretation, not for a disbanding of the Air Force.
 
2007-07-20 06:06:07 PM
Korovyov: The constitution explicitly states that powers necessary and proper to execute its powers -- including, say, declaring war and repelling invasions -- are also granted. Given that maintaining air superiority is, for all practical purposes, necessary in modern warfare, and that waging war is a Federal power, it extends to such.

I believe you are quoting from here:

"To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof."

However, that line only provides for a power to make laws to carry out the foregoing powers and does not grant any other powers as you argue. Since the Air Force is not included in the list of foregoing powers, that section wouldn't help. Furthermore, "waging war" is not an enumerated power, "declaring war" is. An Air Force is not required to declare war.
 
2007-07-20 06:07:21 PM
How is a Government funded press independent? He who pays the fiddler picks the tunes, my friend.

Also, it is only partially funded by gvt, I believe. Most of it is user-supported and grants and such.
 
2007-07-20 06:07:28 PM
I seriously doubt that you'll see anything about tv in the constitution though since it was about 150 years away yet when the constitution was written.

the press, MerlinX , press
 
2007-07-20 06:07:43 PM
hbalien: NPR = truth and reality
conservatives = lies and fairy tales


No doubt.

I hate people who have a difference of opinion also.
 
2007-07-20 06:09:02 PM
hbalien: conservatives = lies and fairy tales

agreed, one of the good old fashion fairy tails that manipulates the kiddies through intense fear.
 
2007-07-20 06:10:09 PM
FlashLV: hbalien: NPR = truth and reality
conservatives = lies and fairy tales

No doubt.

I hate people who have a difference of opinion also.


pishaw! i like lots of people who believe lies and fairy tails, when did hate come into this?
 
2007-07-20 06:10:53 PM
LowbrowDeluxe Quote 2007-07-20 03:45:33 PM
Wow, all but Godwin'd in the Boobies. And it's just gone downhill since then. I'm impressed at the sheer number of people who supported a 100 billion dollar fiasco of a war who complain about the couple of million bones thrown to semi-educational free television.
///

Oh there you go trying to confuse the issues with facts... :)
 
2007-07-20 06:11:49 PM

Atillathepun --
An Air Force, in so far as it is necessary and proper for the government's mandated functions, is not something subject to "interpretation"; war powers and a duty to provide for the common defense are specifically granted. It is untenable to argue that an air force is unnecessary for the mandated duties; ergo, the 'necessary and proper' clause covers it.


The notion of 'general welfare', however, is vague and much more suggestive of a motivation than an explicit power. It is not, in fact, clear that funding programs like 'Fresh Air' or 'Wait! Wait! Don't Tell Me!' falls under such.

 
2007-07-20 06:12:54 PM
iaazathot: You and atillathepun have done a fine job proving my point that there are people who believe that the only powers that the Fed can't exercise are those that violate a constitutional amendment. It doesn't work that way. The Constitution is an EXPLICIT definition of what the Fed may do. Think of it like a firewall, "DENY ALL/ALLOW SOME" rather than "ALLOW ALL/DENY SOME". The former is best practice not just for computer networks but for centralized Governments as well.

No, this is YOUR view of the constitution.



And, coincidentally, it was also the view of the Constitution's authors.
 
2007-07-20 06:13:28 PM
I tend to be a green-conservative (NOT neo-con) with liberal/libertarian tendencies, and I find this to be good news. I've removed satellite/cable from my house due to the "100 channels of shiat" syndrome, so PBS is about all I have for anything remotely worth watching.

/listens to NPR every day too.
//if this post is non-sensical, I blame the amber liquid I be imbibing.
///No, not piss
 
2007-07-20 06:14:02 PM
pishaw! i like lots of people who believe lies and fairy tails, when did hate come into this?

There's no hate like internet hate...
 
2007-07-20 06:15:04 PM
Tax money is blood money, extracted by violence. There's a legitimate excuse when it goes to national defense and the federal courts. Not so much when it goes to keep Elmo or Steve Inskeep giggling.


I disagree, tax money should not go towards anything including national defense and federal courts. I'd rather pay for my own protection and settle things man to man instead paying a bunch of high school/college dropouts in the military and activist judges. Just look at how violent and oppressed the high-tax areas are compared to the rest of the country.
 
2007-07-20 06:15:55 PM
servoled --
An air force is, however, essential to the common defense, to support armies, to punish offenses 'against the law of nations', and to actually carry into execution a state of war.
 
2007-07-20 06:16:54 PM
FlashLV: hbalien: NPR = truth and reality
conservatives = lies and fairy tales
No doubt.
I hate people who have a difference of opinion also.



Go watch some Fox News asshat. I never said I hated anyone.
 
2007-07-20 06:17:18 PM
kurfu Quote 2007-07-20 03:53:49 PM
...because "art" can't support itself and must therefore rely on de facto extortion through taxes and gathering donations through guilt trips to stay in business.

That's why.
///
Huh, just like Bush's war. Go figure.
 
2007-07-20 06:17:47 PM
beaverfetus --
That explains why Tinkerbell was busy getting all those restraining orders.
 
2007-07-20 06:17:51 PM
There's no hate like internet hate...

There's no bias like liberal bias.
 
2007-07-20 06:19:27 PM
beaverfetus: FlashLV: hbalien: NPR = truth and reality
conservatives = lies and fairy tales

No doubt.

I hate people who have a difference of opinion also.

pishaw! i like lots of people who believe lies and fairy tails, when did hate come into this?


Are you new to Fark?
 
2007-07-20 06:19:35 PM
Commie Nazi Terrorist: There's no bias like liberal bias.

FTFY
 
2007-07-20 06:20:42 PM
hbalien: FlashLV: hbalien: NPR = truth and reality
conservatives = lies and fairy tales
No doubt.
I hate people who have a difference of opinion also.


Go watch some Fox News asshat. I never said I hated anyone.


I never said you did. I was agreeing with your. Conservatives should not have a difference of opinion. I understand your message.
 
2007-07-20 06:21:15 PM
Korovyov: The notion of 'general welfare', however, is vague and much more suggestive of a motivation than an explicit power. It is not, in fact, clear that funding programs like 'Fresh Air' or 'Wait! Wait! Don't Tell Me!' falls under such.

Then I suggest you sue the federal government. Be prepared to be laughed out of court.
 
2007-07-20 06:21:27 PM
tryptik: There's no hate like internet hate...

aye. thread warfare reminds me of a bunch of people writhing in a crowd while shooting randomly with guns loaded containing a potent ammunition of misplaced insecurity and mild boredom; which is an oddly apt description of the DC bar scene.
 
2007-07-20 06:21:46 PM
I immediately ignore and laugh at any Republican that makes this arguement: Taxpayers are being asked to pay more in taxes because Congress is not willing to make hard choices and balance our spending with our income

How about the war, you mumblinf farkwad? Maybe the billion a day you are sinking there could be better spent?
 
2007-07-20 06:21:53 PM
Korovyov: Atillathepun --
An Air Force, in so far as it is necessary and proper for the government's mandated functions, is not something subject to "interpretation"; war powers and a duty to provide for the common defense are specifically granted. It is untenable to argue that an air force is unnecessary for the mandated duties; ergo, the 'necessary and proper' clause covers it.


The notion of 'general welfare', however, is vague and much more suggestive of a motivation than an explicit power. It is not, in fact, clear that funding programs like 'Fresh Air' or 'Wait! Wait! Don't Tell Me!' falls under such.


The air force only entered this thread as an example for another farker to witness thelogical fallacy of his interpretation of the constitution. Please don't make it into the issue.

/What's the past tense for fallacy?
 
2007-07-20 06:22:01 PM
Commie Nazi Terrorist: There's no hate like internet hate...

There's no bias like liberal bias.


Sir, Liberals are not biased! They are just always right.
 
2007-07-20 06:22:06 PM
Please.

The invisible hand never had a chance in America.

When the gov stops subsidizing all the other areas of the economic realm, let me know.
 
2007-07-20 06:22:28 PM
There's no bias like liberal bias.

But there is something way worse...

conservative bias.
 
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