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(CNN)   Congress keeps public-broadcasting funding intact, rejecting notions that PBS and NPR are "too liberally biased" to maintain funding   (cnn.com) divider line 743
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7800 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2007 at 3:17 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-07-20 04:48:17 PM
dontforgettobringatowel

fas·cist - Noun: a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views.

from Dictionary.com
 
2007-07-20 04:48:17 PM
As nowhere in the constitution there is authorization for funding this kind of thing, (despite A Dark Evil Omen's attempt at using the preamble) it is unconstitutional.

Then let's also disband the DEA and rescind all Federal drug laws that don't involve interstate commerce. It doesn't say anything about that either.
 
2007-07-20 04:48:40 PM
"I like NPR, therefore the government should pay for it!" Yep, you're an idiot.

If you think that is what is happening here, you are the idiot.
 
2007-07-20 04:48:58 PM
Arnold T Pants: stryker4526: I'm having a really hard time deciding whether Arnold is a fantastic troll or fantastically stupid. I must say that NPR is the most unbiased station out there, and I have no shortage of time to listen to it. My friend has several radios throughout the house that are on NPR 24/7 (literally), so it's constant exposure when I'm over there.

"I like NPR, therefore the government should pay for it!"
Yep, you're an idiot.

Maybe the government should start buying people guns. We have a right to them. I like them. Yes, the government should buy everyone guns!


Arnold, meet strawman. Strawman, Arnold. I didn't realize that I said anything about whether I believe the gov't should fund NPR in that post. Hmm... thanks for enlightening me and making me realize that I did, in fact, put those words in my post.
 
2007-07-20 04:49:05 PM
Theaetetus: sockosmama: Not to tell you your own business, but I think the reason they're getting fluffy is because they still need to compete to stay relevant in today's media market, and the rest of the news outlets in the U.S. are marshmallows, so they've HAD to take on some fluffiness to attempt to attract viewers who can no longer handle or are bored by an actual news broadcast.

I'd disagree, judging by the listener numbers and demographics, and the way they've gone up in relation to major news events. Plus if it were that, then there'd be some sort of conscious drive for fluff pieces by the producers. I think it's more laziness and stupidity - we have a tech reporter who thinks Microsoft Office is an operating system, and I've heard a report on an office building-turned-data center include "the windows have a really nice view".


Yikes. Yeah, see, that sheds a little more light on it. However, I do think that the commercial outlets' tendency toward fluff has to have something to do with it. It's just what people seem to want these days. Maybe one day we can get back to some "hard news," rather than what Paris Hilton's doing for the weekend.
 
2007-07-20 04:49:39 PM
dontforgettobringatowel

According to the guy most responsible for drafting the Constitution (James Madison) taxation must be tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers such as regulating commerce or providing for the military.

You are, of course, aware that James Madison reversed his hardline anti-federalist position when the War of 1812 broke out and he found out how bad a weak government actually was, right? Of course you are.
 
2007-07-20 04:50:21 PM
NPR is left leaning. Don't kid yourselves.

I'm conservative and I don't care either way what with car talk and some other great programs. I take it for what it's worth and I send them $50 bucks here and there.

The sun comes up, the sun guys down, and NPR is left leaning, you'd have to be a moran not to realize this.
 
2007-07-20 04:50:46 PM
If NPR is for our general welfare, why can't Bush say warrantless wiretaps are?

Because there is actual law against it. And not in the "I'm assuming this because of the 10th amendment" category.
 
2007-07-20 04:50:53 PM
The only adults I know who don't enjoy NPR stations, either can't understand big words or have never listened to it (usually cuz someone like Rush told them it was LIBRUL and EVIL). It's not a Democrat thing or a Republican thing to enjoy the various programming. Maybe it's more of an education thing. I find the stories to be interesting and stuff like Cartalk, Wait Wait Don't Tell Me & Prairie Home Companion are just wonderful backdrops to my weekend in whatever I am doing. My Republican father raised me on public radio... go figure.
 
2007-07-20 04:51:06 PM
Oak: Tax money is blood money, extracted by violence. There's a legitimate excuse when it goes to national defense and the federal courts. Not so much when it goes to keep Elmo or Steve Inskeep giggling.

Second.
 
2007-07-20 04:51:55 PM
NPR is left leaning. Don't kid yourselves.

I'm conservative


Wow, I'm freaking shocked.

Tell me, exactly, how it leans to the left. Consider this a personal challenge.
 
2007-07-20 04:52:56 PM
Arnold T Pants: ReaverZ: Um, how is that? Isn't that fact that Congress, who writes the budget, puts it in the budget make it Constitutional?
This is a new arguement to me, do you explain it?

Congress has enumerated powers listed by Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution. All other powers are reserved to the states or to the people, per the 10th amendment.


Right and isn't funding projects,infustructure and services part of Congress's Constitutional powers? Not everything Congress funds is named in the Constitution. It is what two things the military and things for the general welfare?
Has a case against the CPB come to the Supreme Court? I really do think that if the un-Constitutional arguement had a legal standing it would have been litigated.
 
2007-07-20 04:52:57 PM
dontforgettobringatowel

dic·ta·to·ri·al - Adjective:

1. of or pertaining to a dictator or dictatorship.
2. appropriate to, or characteristic of, a dictator; absolute; unlimited: dictatorial powers in wartime.
3. inclined to dictate or command; imperious; overbearing: a dictatorial attitude.
from dictionary.com


1. Tending to dictate; domineering.
2. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a dictator or dictatorship; autocratic.
from American Heritage Dictionary

I will add that the American Heritage Dictionary is CRAP.
 
2007-07-20 04:52:57 PM
Jake Steed

NPR leans left because the truth leans left. Not a lot. Not whackjob crazy meat is murder/guns kill children/rubber sidewalks for safety left. Just a little left.
 
2007-07-20 04:53:00 PM
img266.imageshack.us

Can you say "Fascist Pig" children?


I knew you could.
 
2007-07-20 04:53:02 PM
The_Sponge: 2) If you want excellent educational programming, watch the Discovery Channel.

Like what, exactly? I watch the Discovery Channel and I can't remember anything I ever learned from it. Except that Kari is a hottie. I did learn that from the Discovery Channel. Other than that, it's cheaply produced reality shows (or do you learn something from "Deadliest Catch" and "Dirty Jobs"?). The Planet Earth special was pretty, and that plus the occasional Koppel documentaries would be the only legit claims to anything remotely educational.
 
2007-07-20 04:53:34 PM
The government has used tax dollars to help McDonald's advertise in foreign markets, bailed out savings and loan fiascos, the airlines, etc., etc., etc., but I don't hear any of you pissquick constitutionalists bemoaning that.

Nope, you just want to shut down something that doesn't follow your bullshiat corporate media echo chamber. You fascist farks have been after public broadcasting for decades. It isn't going anywhere.

Now it may be co-opted from the inside (Bush has been working on that, but now there is a D congress, waaaaahhhhh!).

Pop the popcorn, I smell impeachment coming....hahahahahah.

/suck it
 
2007-07-20 04:53:41 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: dontforgettobringatowel

According to the guy most responsible for drafting the Constitution (James Madison) taxation must be tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers such as regulating commerce or providing for the military.

You are, of course, aware that James Madison reversed his hardline anti-federalist position when the War of 1812 broke out and he found out how bad a weak government actually was, right? Of course you are.


It's really hard to compare the beliefs of the founders to today - we understand a lot more about economics than they did. Capitalism was pretty freaking new, and they didn't understand the benefits of the free market.

I'm not so sure why what the founders said about this or that is all that relevant, especially if much of it has been superceded by newer academic thought. Much of what they said is quite relevant, but a lot isn't.
 
2007-07-20 04:55:04 PM
dave2198: Wow, I'm freaking shocked.

Tell me, exactly, how it leans to the left. Consider this a personal challenge.


I too would like to hear this, Jake Steed.
 
2007-07-20 04:55:06 PM
dontforgettobringatowel: Who gets to define "general welfare"?

The would be the Supreme Court of the United States of America. I may disagree with them, but they have more legitimacy than random people on the Internet. Hard to believe, I know.

Arnold T Pants: If NPR is for our general welfare, why can't Bush say warrantless wiretaps are?

The problem is not Bush spending public funds on the wiretaps. The problem was that the manner he was performing the wiretaps violated the Fourth Amendment, as well as acts of Congress (it did at the time, I'm not sure if it still does.) But it doesn't matter because the problem IS NOT the money spent on it, but the way it was implemented - otherwise even wiretaps with warrants wouldn't be allowed. And I don't know of anyone who would make that argument.
 
2007-07-20 04:55:17 PM
dave2198 2007-07-20 04:51:55 PM
Tell me, exactly, how it leans to the left. Consider this a personal challenge

------------------------

When they report the news or cover political and social subjects it has a left slant. Perhaps it's a little to subtle for slower people to catch.
 
2007-07-20 04:55:37 PM
PBS is part of your national defense. The assault upon your country is the assault upon the constitution. (from within)
 
2007-07-20 04:55:38 PM
Arnold T Pants: Sure it does. If NPR is for our general welfare, why can't Bush say warrantless wiretaps are?

There is an Amendment that specifically outlaws unlawful search and siezure. Show me the Amendment that specifically outlaws the funding of Public Broadcasting?
 
2007-07-20 04:56:27 PM
Jake Steed: dave2198 2007-07-20 04:51:55 PM
Tell me, exactly, how it leans to the left. Consider this a personal challenge
------------------------

When they report the news or cover political and social subjects it has a left slant. Perhaps it's a little to subtle for slower people to catch.


Stating the same thing in different words isn't exactly proving your argument.
 
2007-07-20 04:56:57 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: You are, of course, aware that James Madison reversed his hardline anti-federalist position when the War of 1812 broke out and he found out how bad a weak government actually was, right? Of course you are.

Uh...
Madison, the co-author of the Federalist Papers, was anti-federalist?
 
2007-07-20 04:57:13 PM
ReaverZ: It is what two things the military and things for the general welfare?

What type of things are not covered under the General Welfare clause?
 
2007-07-20 04:57:32 PM
dontforgettobringatowel

fas·cism (fāsh'ĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key n.

1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

American Heritage Dictionary
 
2007-07-20 04:57:46 PM
Oak: Tax money is blood money, extracted by violence.

They don't break your leg if you don't pay, they just come and take your stuff.
 
2007-07-20 04:57:53 PM
stryker4526: Stating the same thing in different words isn't exactly proving your argument.

What if he tried proving his argument by saying, using different words, the same thing?
 
2007-07-20 04:58:02 PM
I can see how a Democratically controlled House and Senate would vote to continue funding PBS and NPR -- just like the Republican controlled House and Senate did for the last few years. But that's not to say that PBS and NPR don't lean left -- they clearly do. The only ones who don't think so are themselves left-leaning, or further left so that the broadcasters appear somewhat centrist.

Once Air America or some other fantastically-liberal broadcasting station/group is successful, PBS and NPR might change at the risk of losing funding -- though it's tough to foresee if they'd become more centrist or more liberal.
 
2007-07-20 04:58:23 PM
Rational Exuberance

It's really hard to compare the beliefs of the founders to today - we understand a lot more about economics than they did. Capitalism was pretty freaking new, and they didn't understand the benefits of the free market.

I'm not so sure why what the founders said about this or that is all that relevant, especially if much of it has been superceded by newer academic thought. Much of what they said is quite relevant, but a lot isn't.


Of course it's relevant, it's basis for your government. It's the prior authority the Supreme Court refers to in making their decisions. In effect, the positions of the founders is part of common law and it behooves you to understand their positions. It also behooves you to understand their objections to pure Smith-style capitalism - in fact, it behooves you to understand Smith's own objections (even if he tended to gloss over them and in general not worry about them overmuch). There's a reason they turned Smith on his ear in writing about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" rather than the pursuit of profit.

And if your contention is that ultra-right-wing anarcho-capitalists are right and that Hamilton's (among others, including Washington's) abhorrence of such behavior should be ignored and that, in general, the basis of the US government should be torn out by the roots to support it, well, that's just beneath contempt.
 
2007-07-20 04:58:30 PM
dontforgettobringatowel: Who gets to define "general welfare"?

According to the guy most responsible for drafting the Constitution (James Madison) taxation must be tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers such as regulating commerce or providing for the military.


Maybury v. Madison

The Supreme Court does. If funding NPR/PBS is unconstitutional feel free to take it up with the courts system. I'm personally not aware of any specific case that deals with the constitutionality of NPR/PBS but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some. Feel free to argue against judicial review if you want, but I don't think its going anywhere anytime soon.

Madison may not have been in love with the general welfare clause, but last I heard he was 1 of 55 people involved in writing it.
 
2007-07-20 04:58:59 PM
iaazathot: The government has used tax dollars to help McDonald's advertise in foreign markets, bailed out savings and loan fiascos, the airlines, etc., etc., etc., but I don't hear any of you pissquick constitutionalists bemoaning that.

The Government shouldn't fund any of those. There. Feel better?
 
2007-07-20 04:59:13 PM
tomelkwalker: Theaetus so I'll give you a different example:
KRCC (pops) is associated with Colorado College (pops) which is a private school. CC uses KRCC as a public face and advertises extensively on KRCC. Yet CC and KRCC get into the public pocket to support their collective welfare. If they can't find enough private support then they should close the station down.


KRCC is an NPR affiliate. Per the CPB page, NPR is a Private, non-profit media enterprise owned and operated by member stations which produces and distributes programs and is funded by member stations.

Your tax dollars aren't being used to support KRCC.
 
2007-07-20 04:59:30 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: dontforgettobringatowel

According to the guy most responsible for drafting the Constitution (James Madison) taxation must be tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers such as regulating commerce or providing for the military.

You are, of course, aware that James Madison reversed his hardline anti-federalist position when the War of 1812 broke out and he found out how bad a weak government actually was, right? Of course you are.


Yes , I am aware of that. As I am aware that Jefferson changed his mind about having a standing army, because it is necessary to protect the republic from foreign invasion. But I don't recall any of them calling for the Congress to approve funding for newspapers or town criers.
 
2007-07-20 04:59:46 PM
Theaetetus: stryker4526: Stating the same thing in different words isn't exactly proving your argument.

What if he tried proving his argument by saying, using different words, the same thing?


That might be a whole 'nother story.
 
2007-07-20 05:00:11 PM
Public broadcasting is an integral part of society, especially American society where the rest of the news is an enormous crapfest, left or right.

Fox News, CNN, CBS, Newsweek, etc... you'll never learn anything from them except some talking head's idiot opinion so you can have pointless arguments online with someone who's listened to a different talking head.

NPR is pretty decently balanced, in the US it's certainly left of the other broadcasters but that doesn't make it a left-wing station, just that American media (culture?) in general is very right wing.

NPR is the only domestic news source worth a crap.

/ Economist + BBC + NPR ftw.
 
2007-07-20 05:00:21 PM
Theaetetus

Uh...
Madison, the co-author of the Federalist Papers, was anti-federalist?


He was hardline states'-rights and constantly fighting with Hamilton and Washington about their desire for a strong central government. He finally figured out why they wrote what they wrote and phrased things in the Constitution later, after he had written most of the stuff that rightists love to post in sound-bite form.
 
2007-07-20 05:00:22 PM
Arnold T Pants: Whaaaaa! I can't find any news sources I like so I'm going to force the taxpayers to pay for one. I want it! I want it! I want it!

/you are proof that educated doesn't mean intelligent.


Basically, minus all the 3rd grade antics you used...your first statement is correct. "I can't find (unbiased) news sources I like". I, however, am not powerful enough to force anyone to do this. And yes, I want it.

Your comment about my lack of intelligence is par for the course. You came to a conclusion without any fact to base this in, other than I have an opposing viewpoint...Thats the M.O. for types like you... you can't defend anything you say with facts so you resort to to these antics. Good luck with that.
 
2007-07-20 05:00:49 PM
Jake Steed: When they report the news or cover political and social subjects it has a left slant.

"All Things Considered, July 19, 2007 · The Dow Jones Industrial Average finished above 14,000 Thursday for the first time, adding 82 points to close at 14,000.41.

The market has been spiraling upward in recent weeks. It climbed 1,000 points in less than 60 days of trading. The surge comes at a time when growth has slowed in the United States and many people are worried about problems in the mortgage market."

Gosh, you're right! So left-leaning.

Perhaps it's a little to subtle for slower people to catch.

I lol'd
 
2007-07-20 05:01:28 PM
If by "liberal" you mean "not INSANELY possessed by neo-con propaganda" then yes, they are too liberal.
 
2007-07-20 05:01:43 PM
When they report the news or cover political and social subjects it has a left slant. Perhaps it's a little to subtle for slower people to catch.

Like when, exactly? I'm anything but slow. Please do continue.
 
2007-07-20 05:01:54 PM
dontforgettobringatowel

Semantics:
se·man·tics /sɪˈmæntɪks/ [si-man-tiks] -noun (used with a singular verb)
1. Linguistics. a. the study of meaning.
b. the study of linguistic development by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form.

2. Also called significs. the branch of semiotics dealing with the relations between signs and what they denote.
3. the meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a word, sign, sentence, etc.: Let's not argue about semantics.

from dictionary.com

refer to 3
 
2007-07-20 05:02:00 PM
I made a grandfather clock based on some plans from "This Old House" and it leans a bit to the left.
 
2007-07-20 05:02:23 PM
I know you can show pen1s on PBS, but can you say it?

/Is pen1s to librul?
//Bob Ross is hung like a rhino
 
2007-07-20 05:03:11 PM
servoled: The Supreme Court does. If funding NPR/PBS is unconstitutional feel free to take it up with the courts system. I'm personally not aware of any specific case that deals with the constitutionality of NPR/PBS but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some. Feel free to argue against judicial review if you want, but I don't think its going anywhere anytime soon.

Madison may not have been in love with the general welfare clause, but last I heard he was 1 of 55 people involved in writing it.


What can't the Government do that can't somehow be argued a legitimate power under the General Welfare clause?
 
2007-07-20 05:04:23 PM
Oak: Tax money is blood money, extracted by violence. There's a legitimate excuse when it goes to national defense and the federal courts. Not so much when it goes to keep Elmo or Steve Inskeep giggling.

Tell me. Who prints that money? Who regulates trade so that every town doesn't have a different definition of what a dollar is? Which entity conducts trade negotiations with foreign powers that help determine the relative value of said dollar?

Face it. No government and your little slips of paper are worthless. You have a simplistic fairy tale view of how the world works.
 
2007-07-20 05:04:31 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: Rational Exuberance

It's really hard to compare the beliefs of the founders to today - we understand a lot more about economics than they did. Capitalism was pretty freaking new, and they didn't understand the benefits of the free market.

I'm not so sure why what the founders said about this or that is all that relevant, especially if much of it has been superceded by newer academic thought. Much of what they said is quite relevant, but a lot isn't.

Of course it's relevant, it's basis for your government. It's the prior authority the Supreme Court refers to in making their decisions. In effect, the positions of the founders is part of common law and it behooves you to understand their positions. It also behooves you to understand their objections to pure Smith-style capitalism - in fact, it behooves you to understand Smith's own objections (even if he tended to gloss over them and in general not worry about them overmuch). There's a reason they turned Smith on his ear in writing about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" rather than the pursuit of profit.


That's kinda my point. No one believe in Classical (Smith/Ricardo/Marx) style economics. It's been completely superceded my marginalism, and later Keynesianism to where we are now.

And if your contention is that ultra-right-wing anarcho-capitalists are right and that Hamilton's (among others, including Washington's) abhorrence of such behavior should be ignored and that, in general, the basis of the US government should be torn out by the roots to support it, well, that's just beneath contempt.

No, that's not it at all. I don't deny that the government has the power to regulate the general welfare. That doesn't mean that it's in any way desirable or efficient.
 
2007-07-20 05:04:44 PM
When you want slanted sound byte "news" with a slant or you want to be manipulated, you go to the commercial news sources. When you want real fair, balanced (not Faux News bullshiat), well researched coverage, you go to NPR and PBS. There is no liberal slant at either news organization; that's just right wing crap. You'll hear informed, reasoned debate and all points of views on issues at NPR/PBS. To the right wing, which benefits only when people are kept woefully ignorant, such an approach is "liberal." For you right wingnuts who think the government shouldn't be funding The CPB, consider that it was created so that the citizens of this country could get information free of government and corporate interference. The amount of funding it receives is less than the Pentagon's monthly accounting rounding errors.
 
2007-07-20 05:05:42 PM
FTFA: "Taxpayers are being asked to pay more in taxes because Congress is not willing to make hard choices and balance our spending with our income," Lamborn said.

Comic. Genius.
 
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