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(Philly.com)   China jails two Protestant ministers, calling them "cult" leaders   (philly.com) divider line 161
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4246 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2007 at 8:38 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-07-09 08:41:31 AM
But they ARE from a cult?
 
2007-07-09 08:41:38 AM
Guilty as charged.
 
2007-07-09 08:41:52 AM
Herro! Have you accept Jesus Chlist as your personal savior?

/Got nuthin.
 
2007-07-09 08:43:14 AM
China jailing Christians for being Christians is hardly new. Unless you're "State Approved", you're a cult.
 
2007-07-09 08:46:04 AM
您听见了好消息吗? 耶稣基督是鞋抽。
 
2007-07-09 08:46:35 AM
sigh...welcome to today's early morning flame war....
 
2007-07-09 08:46:37 AM
Ian Astbury sought for questioning?
 
2007-07-09 08:46:57 AM
HERO tag broke subby?
 
2007-07-09 08:47:22 AM
It's a start.

Seriously, the day will come when Americans will regret transferring all their money to China by way of purchasing crappy goods and poisonous food.

Yeah, shareholders and CEO's of America, I'm looking at you.
 
2007-07-09 08:48:12 AM
bake420: HERO ASININE tag broke subby?

FTFY
 
2007-07-09 08:48:27 AM
Imagine if the scriptures were correct, and Jesus returned to Earth?

He'd probably be throw in an insane asylum for life.
 
2007-07-09 08:49:15 AM
Christianity did start out as a cult...they're not too far off.

I wish the first amendment had a freedom FROM religion clause rather than freedom OF religion...
 
2007-07-09 08:49:17 AM
NickBush24: FTFY

no, you really didn't.

a cult is a religion with no political power.
therefore they are a cult in China.
 
2007-07-09 08:51:15 AM
bake420: no, you really didn't.

a cult is a religion with no political power.
therefore they are a cult in China.


Doesn't make it right though.

I love bashing religion as much as the next guy, but what the Chinese government is doing is just as bad as what Muslims are doing in Arab countries or what the SBC/other religious right dumbasses want to do in America.
 
2007-07-09 08:52:22 AM
Winterstar: Christianity did start out as a cult...they're not too far off.

I wish the first amendment had a freedom FROM religion clause rather than freedom OF religion...


Because, you know.. that's what our founding fathers were looking for... a land where people weren't allowed to worship freely.

oh wait, no, that's the exact place they left, and were in fact looking for a place to worship freely. Man, I should have studied more in history.
 
2007-07-09 08:53:32 AM
so? it's not like they surrounded their church with guns drawn and then set the building on fire.
 
2007-07-09 08:53:35 AM
Not to say they should be arrested, but in their eyes it's a non-accepted religion aka a cult.
 
2007-07-09 08:53:42 AM
Heh, sorry if my post sounded like flamebait, but it is true, from Wikipedia (because I'm lazy):

"In religion and sociology, a cult is a term designating a cohesive group of people (generally, but not exclusively a relatively small and recently founded religious movement[1]) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be outside the mainstream. Its status may come about either due to its novel belief system, its idiosyncratic practices, its perceived harmful effects on members, or because its perceived opposition to the interests of the mainstream culture."
 
2007-07-09 08:54:41 AM
Now if they would only do that here...

I'm a Christian by the way. I just feel that some people are taking religion way to far.
 
2007-07-09 08:55:03 AM
www.nndb.com

Cult? O RLY?
 
2007-07-09 08:55:24 AM
China sucks.
 
2007-07-09 08:56:26 AM
Kyndig 2007-07-09 08:46:35 AM
sigh...welcome to today's early morning flame war....
QFT!
 
2007-07-09 08:59:32 AM
Evangelical = Fundy = pretty cult-like in my book.

Sentencing them to labour and "re-education" without any sort of trial sucks balls though.
 
2007-07-09 08:59:43 AM
Religious proselytizing is not permitted in China. This has been true for some time, though it was clarified in 2006. From travel.state.gov:

On March 1, 2006, a new Public Security Law went into effect that gives police new powers, including the authority to detain and deport foreigners, relating to the commission of a wide range of offenses. The list of offenses has been expanded to include certain religious activities and prostitution-related crimes
(emphasis added)
 
2007-07-09 09:00:18 AM
NickBush24: Doesn't make it right though.

I love bashing religion as much as the next guy, but what the Chinese government is doing is just as bad as what Muslims are doing in Arab countries or what the SBC/other religious right dumbasses want to do in America.


well, way to take the wind out of sails.
how are we supposed to have a flame war like this???

huh?huh?huh?
 
2007-07-09 09:02:57 AM
"Seriously, the day will come when Americans will regret transferring all their money to China by way of purchasing crappy goods and poisonous food.

Yeah, shareholders and CEO's of America, I'm looking at you."

Understandable sentiment, but I disagree. There is a struggle against totalitarianism going on within the PRC right now. If we wish to encourage the more forward looking elements there, the best thing we can do is help make them prosperous. It is economic dysfunction that is stalling the needed changes in the former Soviet Union. The best antidote to totalitarianism is material success.

This is an unfortunate injustice, but when such regimes are dying, it is rare that innocents are not injured by their death throes.
 
2007-07-09 09:05:14 AM
Suppresion of religion is no better than suppresion of science. People should be allowed to worship OR study what they want, to express any belief or opinion regardless of how stupid you regard that belief or opinion.

That is SUPPOSED to be the "American Way", but we don't abide by it as well as we should. On the other hand, we are still a heck of a lot better about it than China.
 
2007-07-09 09:05:30 AM
define:cult

# adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
# fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"
# a system of religious beliefs and rituals; "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin"

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
 
2007-07-09 09:08:13 AM
byukid: Because, you know.. that's what our founding fathers were looking for... a land where people weren't allowed to worship freely.

Freedom from religion doesn't mean that you're not allowed to worship freely, it only means that you're not allowed to force your beliefs on other people.

oh wait, no, that's the exact place they left, and were in fact looking for a place to worship freely.


They left a place where others where forcing a belief system on them they didn't support. So yes, they wanted freedom FROM religion.

Man, I should have studied more in history.

Yes, you should have. Maybe you could have learned from it, sometimes it helps to prevent making the same mistakes over and over again.

I'll support your right to belief whatever crazy shiat you'd like, even christianity. But that doesn't mean I'll have to listen to your nonsense.
 
2007-07-09 09:12:09 AM
BorgDrone:
Freedom from religion doesn't mean that you're not allowed to worship freely, it only means that you're not allowed to force your beliefs on other people.


Okay, I have no problem with that. But if you believe that, shouldn't you be against what China did? They went into a worship service and arrested these people.

Kinda seems a little force-y to me.
 
2007-07-09 09:14:02 AM
All religions are cults. State sanctioned or otherwise.


Cult
-noun
1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
 
2007-07-09 09:14:04 AM
China has Xtians, Mooslims, Buttists, etc.

China is remarkably tolerant when it comes to religion. (Obvious exceptions not withstanding.)

Thing is... China isn't too tolerant with prosthelizing (spelling?)

Basically... Be a Jesus-boy, just don't try to convert other people.
 
2007-07-09 09:14:11 AM
"re-education through labor" :S
 
2007-07-09 09:15:12 AM
Supression of religion is quite different from supression of science.

Science is helpful.
Religion is harmful.

How many people have died in the name of science (that weren't put to death by the church)?

How many people have died in the name of their "god"?
 
2007-07-09 09:19:08 AM
Gee, this sounds bad for Christianity in China. I wonder if you guys can send Al Sharpton over there to start protesting or something.

two birds, one stone...
 
2007-07-09 09:19:12 AM

magores


See 2007-07-09 08:59:43 AM. :-)
 
2007-07-09 09:20:27 AM
The only difference between a "cult" and "organized religion" is the amount of members. Maybe in China, they are a cult.
 
2007-07-09 09:20:37 AM
Wait, a Communist country calls something a cult?

Ironic tag must have had the day off . . .
 
2007-07-09 09:21:30 AM
Gunderson: Imagine if the scriptures were correct, and Jesus returned to Earth?

He'd probably be throw in an insane asylum for life.


Nah. If the scriptures turn out to be correct, he's not coming back as some nebbishy apostate Jewish itinerate carpenter making snarky remarks and performing magic tricks. He's going to be badass, and he's going to be pissed off. He'll be here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and he's all out of bubblegum. It would be like trying to throw the Terminator in an insane asylum.
 
2007-07-09 09:22:22 AM
Look the other way, folks. They're our most valuable trading partner and their workers are cheap as dirt. Besides, it's not like they're Muslims or anything.
 
2007-07-09 09:23:36 AM
Where's the obvious tag when you need it?
 
2007-07-09 09:24:07 AM
i52.photobucket.com

/approves
 
2007-07-09 09:25:55 AM
Let's say that freedom from religion says that no-one can force their belief on you. Let's say that freedom of religion says that you can choose to believe and worship how you want, as long as it doesn't violate anyone's rights.

It would seem to me that freedom of religion implies freedom from religion, in the sense described above.

If, by freedom from religion you mean that you shouldn't ever have to look at a church, or hear its music, or have anyone approach you on the street with tracts then you're essentially doing what China's doing. They're restricting how people can express their faiths in public. In America, we have things that protect public expression.
 
2007-07-09 09:25:58 AM
Nothing new there. The Chinese government violates basic human rights thousands of times daily by wrongfully imprisoning people who don't believe what the communists want them to believe.

Read a book called "The Heavenly Man" if you want a first hand account of the torture and abuse that is suffered in that country.
 
2007-07-09 09:26:29 AM
 
2007-07-09 09:27:54 AM
Winterstar- Um, not to Godwin, but plenty have died in the name of science. We may look at it today as pseudo science, but that doesn't change the fact those pesky Germans viewed Eugenics as a valid science.
 
2007-07-09 09:31:58 AM
where, i ask, is the goddam HERO tag?
 
2007-07-09 09:32:28 AM
Cult - a small unpopular religion

Religion - a large, popular cult.
 
2007-07-09 09:34:34 AM
elbrundo: Guilty as charged.

QFT

suck it jesus boys
 
2007-07-09 09:36:11 AM
www.codinghorror.com
 
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