I don't know, I think that parents may play a bigger role.

Oh that's it, Wall Street Journal. You're goin' down.

No one farks with Mr. Rogers in his neighborhood, yo.

Soumac: I don't know, I think that parents may play a bigger role.

Come on, man. Don't you know that you can never ever ever call someone a bad parent. Obviously the reason that the kids are worthless little shiat is because they watched too much educational tv growing up.

Has it occurred to anyone that the MTV Generation *IS* special?

downstairs [TotalFark] Quote 2007-07-05 12:00:57 PM
Well, first of all he's been around for many generations, and you didn't see this level of entitlement until recently.

No, its the parents. And maybe their reaction to their own parents' disciplinary measures.


You forgot about the Baby Boomers and their parents, "The Greatest Generation."

All I know is that Mr Rogers wins the ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN.

For this generation? No. I blame it on their gat damn hippie parents.

I declare shenanigans on this article and TWJ, and will be doing it with hand puppets and a song.

What about the baby boomers, the "everything revolves around us" generation? The children just learned what their parents were teaching them.

What is it about our society that we can't blame parents for anything? It's either video games, violent tv or movies, people having sex in public bathrooms...and now some dink wants to blame Mr. Rogers?

That's it. The gloves are off. I'm going to start slapping random parents in the street.

I thought the WSJ was all about personal responsibility?
If your kids are farked up it just might be your fault.

Personally I blame Capt Kangaroo and that commie moose.

We're a society of blamers.

Right -- no narcissism noticed in "the Greatest Generation". Mr. Rogers has been around way too long to blame it on him. Fred Rogers is a saint.

Wabash: Come on, man. Don't you know that you can never ever ever call someone a bad parent. Obviously the reason that the kids are worthless little shiat is because they watched too much educational tv growing up.

And who let them watch it? Oh, that's right, the parents.

// yea I know you were kidding

This article is bullshiat! I AM SPECIAL!!

This author deserves a kick in his sandgina for even suggesting such a thing.

Meow meow meOW MEow meOw mow.

yes

Can you spell "Special" boys and girls? I'd like to take you to a special place. Oh, here comes the trolley! Let's go to make-believe land where everyone has a perfect marriage, a six-figure job and nothing bad ever happens.

/R.I.P Mr. Rogers

I have heard that Mr rogers was a trained sniper. He always wore the sweaters because he had full sleeves of military style ink. Does anyone have any links to documentation of this?

TFA: Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation.

Translation: Now that Fred Rogers is dead, we finally feel confident enough to insult him.

In the 50's you had people thinking of themselves but were also contious of others around them.

Yeah, because just turning 30 myself, I can vouch for the fact that I never think of anyone. All I care about is myself. You're exactly right. Now get out of my bar.

Okay,...may I ask why the parents are also always to blame? At what age does a child finally have to own up to the fact he/she simply isn't making the right decisions?

/see where this is going
//must...get...out

downstairs: Well, first of all he's been around for many generations, and you didn't see this level of entitlement until recently.

No, its the parents. And maybe their reaction to their own parents' disciplinary measures.

Amen. Was at Target yesterday, and a constant "Mom, buy me this," "Mom, I want this," "Mom, so-and-so has this and I want this too," with the mom bleating her assent passively. I wanted to slap the kid for being rude and selfish and the mom for being so passive and being allergic to the concept of "NO."

I also think a lot of it has to do with parents trying to be their kids' friend rather than their parents.

//After a certain point, I couldn't stand Fred Rogers
//he's harmless in any case, Fred Rogers RIP
///materialism for the win

Mr. Rogers is to blame for me changing shoes as soon as I get home from work.

I blame Jeebus.

/one more example why today's kids are so f'ed up!

It's all the parents fault telling little Johnny their so unique and special. They're just as unique as the umpteen other kids with colored hair and a andre the giant has a posse t-shirt.

/i weep for the furture
//obscure?

It IS his fault. We need to dig up his body, burn it for crimes against humanity, and with that negative influence gone from our lives the world will magically be better again. Nothing says evil to me like a cardigan wearing, puppet pal having, model train enthusiast.

Curse you PBS for blighting the world with his taint

downstairs: Well, first of all he's been around for many generations, and you didn't see this level of entitlement until recently.

No, its the parents. And maybe their reaction to their own parents' disciplinary measures.

Are you suggesting that parents need step up and do their jobs?!?!? Shame on you!

Everyone is special. Don't let the mean-spirited, naysaying, guilt-ridden, jealousy-raged blowhards tell you otherwise.

fark the WSJ. How dare they attempt to sully Mr. Rogers' good name and everything that man stood for. It all boils down to selfish, shiatty parents.

I blame the parents and our consumer commercial culture. It started long before Fred Rogers.

"So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"

Because kids don't care about what the Dow Jones index is doing, whether or not Rebels in a south american country have taken coca-cola executives hostage, if the water arrester that daddy installed will stop the pipes from knocking or if mommy's friend who comes over every thursday at 1:30 leaves right before daddy gets home.

I find it ironic that over the 4th I was talking with some friends about chilren's TV and we all agreed that that Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street without all the new flashy transitions and 15 freaking minutes devoted to elmo( don't get me started ) is what we need to go back to. It's no surprise that ADHD is so prevelant.

But MR Rogers making kids feel entitled? Uhhh.. no. That's IMHO a symptom of our current culture... parents who devote their lives to their jobs and the money that comes with it, only to miss out on parenting their child and end up buying them happiness and letting the children call the shots. That's why kids feel entitled. Their parents worship the ground they walk on.

I felt really special in college while going from girl to girl in a sexual blissfulness. It was only when I got stuck in my first cubicle that I realized I was one among thousands in a building inside a country with millions of other little cubes.

Did any of you even read the article? Yeah it's initial hook was that Mr. Rogers screwed up the world by telling every kid they're special, but the meat was that everyone seems to be saying that. Parents are trying to demote themselves to the level of their children, aren't pushing them to actually excel, only to be special and good at being what they are naturally (which doesn't take into account that naturally we're about useless even to ourselves).

If parents aren't pushing their children, discussing higher level subjects in front of their children even if the child is only an observer, the kids are never allowed to think beyond their own experience, which isn't much.

The column was started with a thesis that Mr Rogers "everyone is special and you're great just the way you are" screwed things up. The professors quoted agreed that people are getting more screwed up and expectant of greatness rather than chasing after it.

kids are only special little unique beings when they're blastocysts and we call them snowflake children.

Once they are born we don't give a shait until they are old enough to enlist.

/Republican dogma

I dunno. I still blame about 2 generations worth of parents for this ongoing disaster.

I got a buddy who's 3 year old son thinks it is funny to take a dump on the carpet behind the door in the little tyke's bedroom. My friend explained to me that, while it was disgusting, when he opened the door, it smeared his son's feces into the carpet. That, combined with the random, yet routine urinations on the living room furniture, is why I never stop by at his place anymore.

The reason why the little douchebag gets away with it is because his mother, who is incredibly high maintenance, cannot stand to listen to the little guy crying, so he gets anything and does anything he wants in order to shut him up. What is so farked up is that this type of behavior is common, not the exception, and so there are a whole legion of future fark-ups being raised to believe that that can get and do anything they want.

It's parents, materialistic bullshiat on tv, and SCHOOLS.

Our kids are indoctrinated to believe that our nation, founded on and built by slavery after wiping an entire race of people off the map, is the greatest nation on earth.

We declare our national sports teams "World Champions" when the farthest they might go to play an opponent is Toronto. Hot dog eating champions are declared national heroes, for christ sake.

We are a nation of fat, arrogant, gimme-gimme consumer zombie whore slobs with more blood on our hands than we can wash off.



/

I think those flaming homo's, Bert and Ernie, are to blame...

Every generation thinks they can raise their children "better" than the last. Most think, "I'm not going to do it the way my parents did" because at some point in time they felt their parents were too harsh/not harsh enough or whatever.

This whole thing about a generation of kids getting into the real world and not knowing how to handle criticism because all the heard was, "it's not about winning, it's about how you play the game"...that's the parents' fault.

Personally, I don't think my mother did that bad of a job raising me and my sisters. Did she make mistakes? Yes. (See! I'm not excluding myself) Did she spank me when I was bad? Yes. Did she punish me for things I didn't do? Yes.

No parent is perfect even though they want to be. The only way you're going to be able to tell is when your children grow into adults and begin to make decisions on their own and where they end up in life. Yes, they're going to make mistakes too, but will they learn from them?

No, I have no children. Yet.

We are a nation of fat, arrogant, gimme-gimme consumer zombie whore slobs with more blood on our hands than we can wash off.

Now that's a great lead-in to a weekend!

Mr. Robinsons neighborhood was better.

There are too many "monkey's" on this tread. I thought I was special??

I wonder if anyone from the hatefest about welfare is going to dare make an appearance here.

Ugh, this article pisses me off. Somehow this professor's conjectures on the behaviors of his particular students are newsworthy. And he's taken that conjecture and made it into a myopic generalization of an entire generation. Even if I truly believed that this generation was more narcissistic than the past (like elders didn't think the same about teens in the 50s and 70s), pinning it on Mr. Rogers is spectacularly ridiculous.

I'm sure there are still going to be farkers that agree with this schmuck and think the current generation is worse than the last and that all parents of this generation are idiots.

How about the Tyler Durden Show?

"Hi Kids! You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. We are all part of the same compost heap. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else."

"Yeah, with enough permanent markers we can draw on just about anything."

"I am Jack's juice box, I spill and stain Jack's clothes."

I got a buddy who's 3 year old son thinks it is funny to take a dump on the carpet behind the door in the little tyke's bedroom. My friend explained to me that, while it was disgusting, when he opened the door, it smeared his son's feces into the carpet. That, combined with the random, yet routine urinations on the living room furniture, is why I never stop by at his place anymore.


I'd just smack him silly and tell him to wipe that shiat-eating grin off his face.

More like baby Boomers having fewer children, so more attention is paid to them. If you're one of two kids in the family, you'll probably feel more *special*

Wow, I'm amazed.. Who knew Mr.Rogers was the Anti-christ?

LoHung_Dong: We are a nation of fat, arrogant, gimme-gimme consumer zombie whore slobs with more blood on our hands than we can wash off.


That's every nation. Except Canada we only killed natives.

Who knew that constantly elevating children onto an imaginary pedestal and telling them how amazing and wonderful they are would breed narcissistic tendencies?

MonkeyChrist: I have heard that Mr rogers was a trained sniper. He always wore the sweaters because he had full sleeves of military style ink. Does anyone have any links to documentation of this?

Yeah, it called the you're a farking idiot documentation.

The author is probably full of crap on the Mr Rogers thing. Being a brit I have no idea who he is though.

He does, OTOH, hit the nail on the head a little further in - the world is starting to revolve around children and it sucks. If it suckls for them as well as us that's no suprise.

Everything must be made safe, everywhere must be made child friendly, everyone must cater to children, parents are to be revered.

Well guess what? I like danger, I like scummy dives to drink in that don't have "family rooms", I don't think you're special because you pushed one out. Get on with it and please leave some adult things to adults without trying to sanitise the whole world.

AuralArgument: LoHung_Dong: We are a nation of fat, arrogant, gimme-gimme consumer zombie whore slobs with more blood on our hands than we can wash off.

That's every nation. Except Canada we only killed natives.

Baby seal blood doesn't count? :(

I blame soccer.

When soccer wanted to start a foothold in the US AYSO came along with two marketing strategies; first, it was cheap to play gear was inexpensive and the leagues didnt cost much, second was the "everyone plays" mentality. It was the only youth sport where, now matter how much of a spaz you were, you still where guaraneed game time. Also, it was the first youth sport that gave away a trophy just for participating. Everyone plays, everyone "earns" a trophy, everyone is special. Worst idea for teaching kids ever.

fark you AYSO and soccer.

I blame overly-indulgent parents living vicariously through their progeny to compensate for their own shallow lives ...

BTW: Mr. Rogers is still dead, right?

I blame Mr. Rogers for one thing, and one thing only.... Gays.

ricbach299

Yeah, it is the initial hook, but there are some things that are so sacred that they are above criticism. I have trouble thinking of anything else that is so pure and untainted by controversey and commercialism on ANY level that comes any closer to where Mr. Rogers stands.

When I think about it, I marvel about how something so simple could have such a profound effect on millions of children.

There are other ways this hook could have been made. Mr. Rogers is above criticism on this subject in my book.

Mr. Rogers says no to rising beer prices.

MonkeyChrist:

From snopes.com:

Fred Rogers served as a sniper or as a Navy Seal during the Vietnam War, with a large number of confirmed kills to his credit.

This same rumor has often been applied to boyish country singer-songwriter John Denver (among others), and it's just as false when told of Fred Rogers. Not only did Fred Rogers never serve in the military, there are no gaps in his career when he could conceivably have served in the military - he went straight into college after high school, he moved directly into TV work after graduating college, and his breaks from television work were devoted to attending the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary (he was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1963) and the University of Pittsburgh's Graduate School of Child Development. Moreover, Fred Rogers was born in 1928 and was therefore too old to have enlisted in the armed services by the time of America's military involvement in Vietnam.

Fred Rogers always wore long-sleeved shirts and sweaters on his show to conceal the tattoos on his arms he obtained while serving in the military.

As noted above, Fred Rogers never served in the military, and he bore no tattoos on his arms (or any other part of his body). He wore long-sleeved shirts and sweaters on his show to maintain an air of formality - although he was friendly with the children in his viewing audience and talked to them on their own level, he was most definitely an authority figure on a par with parents and teachers (he was Mister Rogers to them, after all, not Fred), and his choice of dress was intended to establish and foster that relationship.

I used to love watching Mr. Rogers' show. It was great at the time. My boyfriend told me that the reason Mr. Rogers always wears long sleeves is that his arms are covered in anti-Nazi tattoos because he was in the army or some shiat. Which wikipedia does not mention so I think he's full of it.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

How do even you respond to such a broad and impenetrable wall of stupid?

My friend explained to me that, while it was disgusting, when he opened the door, it smeared his son's feces into the carpet.

Wow, I read that first as "he smeared his son's face into the carpet"

BTW, whatch this video of Mr. Rogers if you feel like crying (SFW and show your friends). This is why this man is a saint and will always be one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a41lJIhW7fA

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros

Sarcasm

I actually was inspired to work with kids by the man.

Oh and I see the topic has already been adressed. I should read the thread first.

I'm about as liberal socially as they come but I know the value of discipline,respect and responsiblity being taught to children.
Of course I'm probably older than most of you here (48) and my parents were in their mid 30's when I was born. So I'm probably a generation behind most of you. But I raised my kids like I was raised.

1. corporal punishment is necessary early on to establish consequence. Once a child is up big enough to crawl around you can start training it. If it reaches for something it's not supposed to have tell it no. If it continues to reach smack it's hand. If you're consistent with the discipline and the boundaries you set you'll not have to do this very often. Sure every once in a while they'll test their boundaries but you must be consistent.
I'm also a firm believer in chores and allowances.
the concept of reward and consequence is something you must teach as a parent. It may save your child's life one day.

marine sniper. wore cardigans to cover his tattoos.

/joking

From TFA:

"The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."

Truer words have never been spoken.

Also blame parents who constantly tell their kids that they're special and unique and smart and witty when in fact they're farking idiots.

If your kid is a moron, don't tell him he's smart, it's cruelty.

/had parents who pushed hard and didn't accept half-measures
//Thanks Mom and Dad

You leave Mr. Rogers alone. That man was a gift from God.

Some things you may not have known.

Maybe not, but it certainly had something to do with Carter getting elected.

This is good news for the pilot I'm pitching: I stand in front of the camera telling kids how stupid and worthless they are and that it's their fault mommy and daddy can't get along and/or died.

I agree 100% with you, hobodeluxe. But hang on tight: you're about to get flamed to Alaska and back.

Double posted for reinforcement:

Mr. Rogers testifies before congress in regars to PBS funding

Ennuipoet: This message brought to you by the Bill Hicks Society for People Who Hate People


"Gee! What are the odds?"

Here here hobodeluxe...my parents did the exact same thing and while at the time I thought they were complete jerks, i thank them for it now.

How appropriate that a man who lived by and promoted the ideals that Jesus himself espoused is now being attacked by the right wing "christian" fascist fruitcakes.

Also blame parents who constantly tell their kids that they're special and unique and smart and witty when in fact they're farking idiots.

Or you'll be like this guy:



/surprised nobody brought him up yet

Jeff Zaslow? Is that the same Zaslow that wrote an advice column for the Chicago Sun Times? He's now with the Wall Street Journal? Wow, talk about failing upwards.

WSJ is threatened because Mr. Rogers was a liberal Christian, and actually cared about people, unlike the "compassionate" conservatives who want to fark everyone over for their own greed.

Any chance they get to discredit him is good, because they don't want good people of upstanding morals to be respected; they have to be seen as "weak" and "unrealistic" so that amoral scum like Cheney can get into office and do as they please.

The REAL culprit here.


Pansy-ass AYSO

Hobodeluxe: corporal punishment is necessary early on to establish consequence.

There are other ways to establish consequences and boundaries besides smacking a kid. Children aren't stupid - the main premise behind the "spanking is the only way that works" mentality is that children simply can't comprehend any consequence except physical pain, and that's wrong. There are certain instances in which a smack would be somewhat congruent - like if a kid tries to walk into oncoming traffic. Teaching kids that walking in front of cars equals physical pain could save their life. On the other hand, brutally smacking a kid because he talks while you're watching sitcoms after work teaches them that daddy or mommy gets violent when they're angry.

The problem is that far too many people buy into this entire "punishment and consequences" world view for everything, which can make kids bitter and paranoid. If you raise your child to think that there's a consequence to everything, they become frustrated later on in life when they have to start to deal with situations that have delayed benefits or detriments, or when faced with situations that could but simply don't have any consequence.

"the world is starting to revolve around children and it sucks. "

Because the "upper class" and "educated" people ALL only have one or maybe two kids, any more interferes with their jobs and so forth. Only got one kid, you better protect it! Got 12 kids? Eh, you know, if one screws up (and one will, if you have 12 kids, no matter how good a parent you are) you got others.

It's why America and all of Western Europe would have declining populations if not for immigration.

i'm special so i'm really getting a kick out of these replies

I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo. (I am 40 years old) I do not remember the message from ANY of these shows being that I am entitled to anything I did not earn via working for it.

What Mr. Rogers saying "You are special, just the way you are." mean to me is that it was Ok for me to be me. There was also the message that it was Ok to change things about myself that needed changing. If you look at a number of the Neighborhood of Make Believe segments, they were about a character having some sort of "flaw", people who cared bringing it to their attention and them making a change for the better.

I also agree with what has been said about parental involvement. Any parent that relies solely on "educational shows" to teach their child(ren) is an idiot who should not breed. I have a three year old son. My wife and I use educational TV as a tool to help us to teach him. We are careful of what shows we allow him to watch and plan on continuing to do so as he gets older. As much as possible, we use what he watches to show him how he should and should not behave. Granted, he may not totally understand yet, but we are forming the habits to make this easier in the future.

As any little child would, he wants everything he sees in the store. He does not get it and has been taken out of stores kicking and screaming because he could not get the toy he wants. A lot of parents use material possessions to make up for the time they cannot, or are unwilling to, spend with their child. This sets a dangerous precedence that leads to the sense of entitlement.

I saw this sweet sixteen show on the MTV the other day. Holy sheeeeet! I couldn't believe it. I don't have much contact with teens these days and I hope to god they aren't really like this.

My mother would have beaten them bloody with a wooden spoon if one of her kids ever carried on like those little biatches. I couldn't believe it.

Oh, hobodeluxe, I'm not that much younger than you, and I disagree about hitting. Hitting kids that age when they do something wrong just teaches them that it's OK to hit if you're bigger and/or you want to get your way.

And once again the baby boomer parents and a willing media shift the blame onto someone else. What else is new?

/cue the "it's your life, man - do whatever you want" Ameriphase retirement commercial
//who the hell listens to Dennis Hopper for retirement advice
///he's better at drug advice

I always wanted to live in a house like your's my friend
Maybe when there's nobody home, I'll break in
Married a woman who said she was rich
Took all her money, walked out on the biatch
Would you be mine, could you be mine
Won't you be my neighbor

In all seriousness though, I blame the society and parents. I'm 24 and am part of this generation of entitlement. I was fortunate enough to have parents who told me "life is tough, work hard and you will be rewarded according to your work and perserverance". Now with 3 kids of my own, I am disgusted at the way parent of my generation and even new parents within my generation treat their children like the Lords of the House. We have ceased to assume our right and obligation as parents to guide our children to be productive adults. I'm ashamed of our society, each year is more worthless than the next, with politics and entertainment taking precedence over knowledge and accomplishment.

/my soapbox broke underneath the weight

So now the idiot boomer parents want to blame a dead guy for the farked up state of their offspring? Give me a break!

I could go on and on with possible causes (overscheduling, overprotection, spoiling) but instead I'll stick with the fact that so many of these parents really believe their kid is special. When I was growing up (not too long ago) the really 'special' kids rode in a short bus and wore helmets to class. No doubt Jeff Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were also 'special.'

LocalCynic -- actually, kids are stupid...their KIDS! And I doubt anyone is actually talkig about "brutally smacking" their kid....a slight wack on the behind is not going to hurt anyone. Especially nowadays when we have a bunch of little fatties running around.

I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo.

You forgot Nickelodean (1981 - Pinwheel), 3-2-1 Contact, Bozo the Clown, etc.

every generation thinks the following one or two are going to hell in a handbasket... nothing to see here. I would guess the difference is that it is just in your face a bit more with the intra-web machine

Oh come...on.

Must we attack the last vessel of something right and good?

Heres what Fred taught me.
-Cooperation
-Not to fear failure.
-To think outside the box
-How pencils were made...Thank you picture, picture.
-The value of being polite
-Not to take myself too seriously

In a drunken rant I once proclaimed. There were only two people I would blindly follow into war if they asked me and it still holds true.

-Fred Rogers
-Optimus Prime

LocalCynic 2007-07-05 12:43:57 PM
There are other ways to establish consequences and boundaries besides smacking a kid.
---------------

I agree. Hitting children is cruel and unnecessary.

I prefer to hang mine by the feet from the 2nd story window. Straightens them out really quick.

Yes of course. Today's children are clearly the worst ever. It's not as if our parents weren't considered selfish little snots by our grandparents. Our Great grand parents would probably have a lot to say about our grand parents.

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect
their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently
inhabit taverns and have no self control."
Inscription, 6000 year-old Egyptian tomb



"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Attributed to Peter the Hermit, AD 1274

popstop: Hitting kids that age when they do something wrong just teaches them that it's OK to hit if you're bigger and/or you want to get your way.

??? When did this stop being true? Kids should learn it sooner rather than later.

popstop: Ugh, this article pisses me off. Somehow this professor's conjectures on the behaviors of his particular students are newsworthy. And he's taken that conjecture and made it into a myopic generalization of an entire generation. Even if I truly believed that this generation was more narcissistic than the past (like elders didn't think the same about teens in the 50s and 70s), pinning it on Mr. Rogers is spectacularly ridiculous.

I'm sure there are still going to be farkers that agree with this schmuck and think the current generation is worse than the last and that all parents of this generation are idiots.

EXACTLY!!!!

We can all make some unflattering generalizations about college professors: lush, horndog, dirty old man, fashion criminal, poor, etc.

"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."

UpstateMonkey: LocalCynic -- actually, kids are stupid...their KIDS! And I doubt anyone is actually talkig about "brutally smacking" their kid....a slight wack on the behind is not going to hurt anyone. Especially nowadays when we have a bunch of little fatties running around.

I've seen both extremes -- on one hand you have parents who let their kids walk all over them, and on the other hand some parents smack their kids for damned near anything. They're not necessarily so abusive that the kids are black and blue, but I've seen parents smack their kids in stores for behavior that could and should be stopped with a simple but assertive "NO." Some parents rely far too heavily on lifting their hand or a belt, and as a result you have kids who are incredibly bitter. Some of them lack backbone and are depressed, but others are just incredibly reckless and hedonistic.

my dad was in vietnam and he met fred rogers. he said mr. rogers had a beard, and was covered in tatoos. fark anyone who contradicts this. the cia uses celebrities all the time, because no one will beleive a celebrity is actually an agent..

I can't believe this shiat. I can't believe ANYONE would try to villainize Fred Rogers.

I met him. I sat in a cottage on Nantucket while he played piano and told funny stories about some of the mishaps filming his show. We weren't exactly close friends, but I was with him enough to realize that he was one of the most genuine people the world has ever known. Fred Rogers did not have a mean cell in his entire body, nor a dishonest one. He was the kindest person I ever had the fortune to meet.

Where were these media farks when he was alive and could defend himself? Which he would have done with class, honor, and honesty?

Screw the WSJ and everyone who believes the bile it spews.

I'm usually pretty irreverent on this forum, but this pisses me off. To hell with those coonts. Fred Rogers was one of the last good men in this increasingly farked up world.

Doesn't know what to make of this...

Smellvin: Baby seal blood doesn't count?

that's the natives the left wants us to protect until it comes to their traditions.

"I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo. (I am 40 years old) I do not remember the message from ANY of these shows being that I am entitled to anything I did not earn via working for it."

Now now, actually knowing what you're talking about will prevent you from having conversations with today's breed of "conservatives." All they know is feelings

Albert: LocalCynic
There are other ways to establish consequences and boundaries besides smacking a kid.
---------------

I agree. Hitting children is cruel and unnecessary.

I prefer to hang mine by the feet from the 2nd story window. Straightens them out really quick.


/knitting needles and rubber bands work well too... I will leave it up to you folks to figure out how...

LocalCynic

The science of it actually is that punishment leads to 1) variations in behavior 2) negative affect (anxiety) 3) emotional responding 3)aggression. You're quite correct to point that out, but can you really say that there is a situation where there is no consequence? Even if there is a delayed consequence, there still are no situations I can think of that involve no consequence at all.

The trick of punishment is latency between behavior and punishment and pairing it with an otherwise neutral stimulus. As an example, at age 24, I still get a little anxious when my mother gives me the "eye of death" for doing things she doesn't entirely approve of. The pairing of disapproval and punishment eventually allows you to provide disapproval in the place of punishment.

3rdorderofsimulacra: my dad was in vietnam and he met fred rogers. he said mr. rogers had a beard, and was covered in tatoos. fark anyone who contradicts this. the cia uses celebrities all the time, because no one will beleive a celebrity is actually an agent..

I saw him farking my mom and telling her "You're special, you're special" over and over again. He then proceeded to show me his "neighbor".

Yes, you are correct, 1980s. Thank you for the information 1980s, you sure set everyone straight. I'm glad you keep on saying the same thing 1980s. You are in fact still the greatest generation alive--though you're not "special," of course. Punk no die, let's do some lines.

/You know, I think Drew grew up in the 1980s

Don Chance writes widely-used textbooks on derivatives, (options & futures) so he's not exactly an idiot.

Probably he just couldn't think of a reference other than Mr. Rogers to express his viewpoint.

I think it's a valid point though. Too many kids whine and cry their way into A's and I wish all teachers and profs were Don Chances who would tell them all to go fark themselves. If nobody capitulated then the whiny biatches would stop this shiat.

If you worked as hard as you could and didn't get an A in probability theory or derivatives, you're just not smart enough to get an A. What should the kids who actually earned A's get? A super-special A+++? But then the whiners will just beg for that too.

Bullshiat. Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street (the real thing before the Elmo crap), 3-2-1 Contact, and Mr. Wizard's World were real shows for kids. They actually had a point, and taught something. I think it is sad that when I have children in a few years, that they have nothing like those shows. They have fluff junk like Spongebob Squarepants and other shows with no point, lesson, or maturity. Mr. Rogers didn't talk down to kids, he spoke to them like people. If anything it is the shows that treat kids like morans that are making them special.

There are no shows on TV to rival any of the ones I mentioned, and cartoons are even worse now.

/geez, I must be getting old
//Get off my lawn!

Daffydil: We're a society of blamers.

I blame society.

MonkeyChrist: I have heard that Mr rogers was a trained sniper. He always wore the sweaters because he had full sleeves of military style ink. Does anyone have any links to documentation of this?

Not True.

I'm from Mr Rogers generation, and I know that I'm not a beautiful, unique snowflake.

Get off my lawn, Gen-Yers.

LoHung_Dong

Lighten up, dude. Turn off the television, take a vacation. Life's too short to be that f*cking down, no matter how right you think you are.

TFA: He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?"

I think it's important for children to be forced to think beyond themselves and their activities and interests. It might open a new door for them to explore.

And parents need to STOP telling little Johnny and Suzie that they can do whatever they want. They can't. Only rarely is someone good at everything they try. Most kids - and adults - would be better off finding something they really ARE good at and honing that skill.

/case in point: American Idol. *shudder*
//Mr. Rogers was a cool guy

Xerxes99 2007-07-05 12:54:02 PM
/knitting needles and rubber bands work well too... I will leave it up to you folks to figure out how...
-----------

Heh! I have mixed feeling regarding corporal punishment. It worked for my siblings and I when we were growing up (not often but hurt like hell when it happened) but my wife really doesn't want me hitting our boys so I've come up with some very creative solutions too.

I grew up watching Mr. Rogers, and I turned out just fine!

/except for my irrational fear of puppets...

Svengali4Life
This article is bullshiat! I AM SPECIAL!!

Welcome to the club, we've got our own ride.

Young Black Dolph Lundgren

I blame society.


Duke: The lights are growing dim Otto. I know a life of crime has led me to this sorry fate, and yet, I blame society. Society made me what I am.
Otto: That's bullshiat. You're a white suburban punk just like me.
Duke: Yeah, but it still hurts.

MR ROGERS ROCKS!!

he's what makes america awesome.

NOT SMACKING YOUR CHILDREN WHEN THEY'RE ACTING LIKE LITTLE SPOIL BRATS IS WHAT MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE THEY'RE SO DAMNED "SPECIAL"

..it ain't abuse till someone bleeds people

Local Cynic:

I concur. Although discipline is important (indeed, it's the most important thing a parent can give a child, after love), most people miss the point. The purpose of discipline is to teach (hence its root in the word "disciple"), not to punish for its own sake. Although it has its place, punishment (especially corporal punishment) is overrated as a means of discipline. By contrast, as you point out, modeling correct behavior is underrated.

I'm a children's therapist IRL (so naturally I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.), and I can't tell you how many times I've worked with parents who are utterly mystified that their children have "anger management" problems. Probe a little deeper, and one typically finds that the parent has no idea how to manage his or her own anger. It is unreasonable to expect that kids will be able to master emotional tasks that their parents can't handle. Incidentally, nearly all of the kids I see with "anger problems" have been spanked.

As for the sense of entitlement, I think that comes, at least in part, from parents not spending enough time with their kids and then spoiling them (i.e., giving in to their every demand) out of a sense of guilt, or due to simple fatigue. Parenting is hard work, and it requires a lot of time and energy to do a decent job. Of course, parents also have to deal with modern economic realities, which often require both parents to work in order to make ends meet. It's a difficult situation, and I don't know anyone who is having an easy time of it.

Don Chance writes widely-used textbooks on derivatives, (options & futures) so he's not exactly an idiot.

Nick Leeson also wrote a widely-read book on derivatives, and he is most definitely an idiot.

And in what alternate universe does a financial expert suddenly also become an expert on parenting and social commentary? How could anyone have such chutzpah to think that because they were an expert in one field they would automatically be an expert in another? Methinks Don Chance thinks he's "special", too....

FTFA:
The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.
...
But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself.

Soooo, the children who came to his office had high expectations for themselves (earning A's) and came to his office seeking ways to earn extra points (working harder to reach those expectations). What is this guy biatching about again? Oh right, kids on the lawn.

Girl_in_Vegas: now matter how much of a spaz you were,

Are you a child of the 80s?

I haven't heard the term "spaz" used since 1984.

*snicker*



//yes I am!

JEFF ZASLOW is Jewish. Is there any other culture that teaches their children are "special" as much as Jewish culture?

I have to echo Christian Bale above. For a Jew like ZASLOW, there is an natural aversion to anyone with true Christian values like the most gentile of goys, Mr. Rogers. They will always criticize it.

Mr. Zaslow should examine his own racial prejudices and let us raise our children with icons that represent the best of our (gentile) culture. I doubt at the Yeshiva where his kids go, they are allowed to see the bombardment of negative images that our children receive from Hollywood.

Is Mr. Rogers to blame for a generation that thinks it's so "special"?

No. It's two things that I can see:

1. Parents who said "I want my kids to have the things I never had", then applied that to things way more than education, opportunity, discipline, loving home, etc.

Some things are okay, but when you go out and spend $100k on a formal sweet sixteen party, or buy a new sports car for your kid the day he gets his first license, or have a tricked-out "play room" complete with finer electronics than are seen by mere mortals, or are a human ATM, etc., you're only fostering the "gimme!" mentality.

2. On a larger scale, the culture is to blame for not realizing that rights apply only to actions, not things. For example, you do not have a right to privacy ... you do have a right to secure your privacy by developing some discipline and a sense of discretion.

Our society now believes that one can claim a right to material products simply because they exist and people need them. Through another miscarriage of education, everyone thinks we live in a democracy - including the government - so if a number of people want it, the state gives it to them (at everyone else's expense).

These vastly misunderstood ideas have reached an absurd degree as an increasing number of people assert a "right" to health care.

General Panic: Even if there is a delayed consequence, there still are no situations I can think of that involve no consequence at all.

I guess you can't really prove a negative, but sure, there are plenty of times where an action is inconsequential. If I wake up late but there's no traffic, so I get to work at the same time, the fact that I woke up late had minimal if any affect on my day. If I spend a few minutes every hour posting on Fark instead of doing work, it's probably not going to have much consequence on my day. Habitually procrastinating or being slovenly can be bad, but there are also situations where any consequence is so small as to be insignificant. Or you could have unintended consequences. The goal should be to teach kids to make behavioral choices taking into account some reasonable short term and long term possibilities. But we end up raising a generation of robots who are bound to rebel if we teach them that consequences are guaranteed to happen.

"It's a simple message
And it comes from the heart;
'Believe in yourself'
For that's the place to start."

Now go stick Daddy's new camcorder in the dishwasher and throw the goldfish out the window!

I like most of what PBS has to offer, but sometimes y'gotta wonder who's doing the thinking.

Raspil,

"Lighten up, dude. Turn off the television, take a vacation. Life's too short to be that f*cking down, no matter how right you think you are."

Believe me, I've turned off the television. I would do nothing but read if I could but having a pregnant wife pretty much kills any of my free time.

Wanna know how I spent my 4th of July? At my in-law's house, listening to my wife's jackass family debate about celebrity gossip and designer fashions. And no, they're not rich, either, just your typical all-american douchebag family with no real ambitions or concept of a world outside of their own. My sister-in-law praised my aunt for having a designer diaper-bag for her newborn, and then went on to brag about her own $300 Gucci sunglasses. Another aunt, the fat one, wore tight spandex shorts and a Nascar t-shirt while drinking half a case of low-carb Michelob. They all passed around the latest Star Magazine and exchanged such riveting commentary as "Can you believe how fat Salma Hayek got?" and "I think Jessica Simpson had a bad boob job". Some way to celebrate our nation's independence and honor our history.


I don't presume that I'm right, I could be wrong about everything. But the bullshiat I'm forced to witness and endure each day doesn't give me the rosiest outlook on things, and unfortunately most people wouldn't know the obvious if it kicked them in their 2nd chin.

/probably needs meds

There are very few absolute truths, but one is: if your argument is that Mr. Rogers is wrong, you are not right.

LoHungDong:

I'll gladly buy you a one-way ticket to North Korea if you're so fed up with this disgusting country of ours.

/Yer on yer own for the entry visa.

Now that I think about it...Mr. Rogers' most popular years in television were the late 70's and early 80's. The college students Mr. Chance talks about weren't even born yet. If any era would have demonstrated the qualities Chance thinks Mr. Rogers would have engendered, it would have been the late 80's-early 90's, and now they would hardly be a new phenomenon.

Don Chance, in other words, is full of shiat.

Girl_in_Vegas: I blame soccer.

Everyone plays, everyone "earns" a trophy, everyone is special. Worst idea for teaching kids ever.

fark you AYSO and soccer.

Bingo, but I wouldn't blame just Soccer. Pretty much every "activity" your kid can sign up for these days is the "everyone wins, trophies for all" type. Nobody learns how to accept and grow from failure or loss.

And railing on Mr. Rogers is just pathetic. Mr. Rogers was probably the kindest, gentlest man to ever have a TV show. And you could learn a lot from him as a kid. I don't remember the exact show, but he had a segment where he dealt with a family tragedy of some sort, and it was such an honest and moral lesson. You couldn't get this kind of childrens' TV today if you paid for it.

The only lessons kids are learning from TV today are:

Boing! Boing! [maniacal laugh] Cheese! SUPER ULTRA FIGHTER!!! Gross! Look at that! I'm great! Wow Neon Bicycles! Bang! Greetings Earthling! Peanut Butter and Jelly! [scream] Candy! Buy stuff! Fun yell at your parents! Zoom!

TheGreyPiper,

Thanks, I'm so ronery. Maybe I'll go hang out with Hans Brix.

Girl_in_Vegas: I blame soccer.

When soccer wanted to start a foothold in the US AYSO came along with two marketing strategies; first, it was cheap to play gear was inexpensive and the leagues didnt cost much, second was the "everyone plays" mentality. It was the only youth sport where, now matter how much of a spaz you were, you still where guaraneed game time. Also, it was the first youth sport that gave away a trophy just for participating. Everyone plays, everyone "earns" a trophy, everyone is special. Worst idea for teaching kids ever.

fark you AYSO and soccer.

what the hell? whered THAT come from?

Childhood was confusing... but I do not remember it being Mr. Roger's fault. Aside from being just creepy enough that I even as a kid knew I didn't want to be left alone with him (a feeling good ole' Captain Kangaroo never engendered), Mr. Rogers was a pretty benign character. What screwed me up the most was not even a television show at all.. it came on BETWEEN shows.. and was called... SNIPPETS.

Yes I blame snippets for my confusion, because it challenged the common wisdom that I received from my mother every time I acted out. 'You are not the most important person in the whole world' she would tell me.

Oh yea!? Well thats not what the TV says..

Your the most important person in the whole wide world
And you hardly even know you
...

I confronted her armed with the assurance that only a TV telling you something can equip you with. I was the most important person.. and I had a 1 minute long Snippet on the TV to prove it.

I do not remember the punishment I garnered for my "most important person" mini-revolution.. but I do know I went to bed pretty certain that my mother was right.. and Snippets lied to me.

So no Fred Rogers = innocent, but if anyone wants to start a class action suit against Snippets.. count me in. I might be able to get my meds covered at least.

PROOF:
Link (new window)

FTFA

But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders.

This is one concept I refuse to accept. Respect is earned. No one should be respected merely because they've managed to be alive 20 more years than someone else. Respect them when they demonstrate they've actually learned a thing or two during that time. Sure, maybe they deserve the benefit of the doubt, but there are plenty of people that are ignorant jackasses that are older than me now, and they were ignorant jackasses when I was a teen.

They think they're entitled because the kids today are punk-ass biatches that deserve a good ass-kicking.

subbie dont you dare bring MR. rogers into this!

/im special right?

I was born and raised in South Africa, and there I was taught to address my superiors (i.e., teachers) as Sir or Ms. Then we moved to America, and in my middle school classes, I still carried over that habit. Midway into the semester, one of my teachers asked my parents for a parent-teacher meeting. I thought I had done something wrong. Turns out he called in my parents to thank them for teaching me how to be so polite, because he doesn't see it often.

/Thanks, mom & dad, for raising me right.

Uhh I think that once again the group that has to be blamed is the parents.

Every parent knows that once you give in to a child's demands that child will repeat the behavior to get what he wants.

So professors, if you students are nagging you about boosting their grade you can at best blame the parents, but most likely a collegue has caved in and started the process.

/Blame Mr. Rodgers???
// I thought it was the terrists and the stingrays
///Jeff Zaslow....FAIL

Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting."
WOOT!

Mr. Rogers taught kids that they could be anything and do anything.

Schools, under the guise of "diversifying education," taught kids that they could be everything and do everything.

Helicopter Parents and previously mentioned "participation" awards taught kids that they deserved everything and deserved to do everything.

Now we have single mothers that don't take care of their kids because we've told them from childhood that they could be mommy and be Ms. Corporate Boardroom and not only could they do it, they deserved to do it if that's what they wanted. We also have lazy deadbeat dads that won't, or can't pay child support because we taught them that someone else will do the work for them and they'll reap the benefits as long as they make a minimal effort to participate.


It could be argued that Mr. Rogers set the trolley in motion (see what I did there?), but it was other douchebags that perverted his message. It's not entirely unlike the teachings of Christ and the perversion of the teachings through the millenia to create the corporation that is The Church.

Of course I am special. I had a special school bus, a special school. Had special gloves to wear, and even had a special helmet.

I blame it on the bosonova.

And the bottle of Jack.

Did anybody read the article?

Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting."

They're saying Rogers is a great example of the "participation trophy" mentality we've installed in our kids. Ever seen "The Incredibles"? Same argument - saying that "everyone's special" is the same as saying that no-one is. Which simply isn't true - some people really are smarter, faster, or stronger than others. Welcome to Darwin.

It doesn't hurt a kid to be told that they need to buck up and try harder in order to succeed. In my mind, it's more abusive to tell them that they can never fail.

Also agree with the article's POV on adults maintaining their adulthood. Your kid is not the head of your household, nor should they be.

Ok I consider myself part of the mister Rogers Generation, I would say we are all in our 30's to 40's

The generation the article is reffering to is now in their late teens and early 20's.

The show was on for 33 years. My understanding is a generation is ~30 years. so his show spanned up to 3 generations. How come only the last one which would have been exposed to him the least is the only one that got the wrong message?

I think that Hummer should license that TV spot they used to play between cartoons:

"The most important person in the whole wide world is YOU, and you hardly even know you. The most important PERSON!"

And show an attractive young Hummer driver in a shiny new Hummer using the sidewalk as a passing lane, making U-turns through the medians, knocking bicyclists over etc.

Nick Leeson also wrote a widely-read book on derivatives, and he is most definitely an idiot.

And in what alternate universe does a financial expert suddenly also become an expert on parenting and social commentary? How could anyone have such chutzpah to think that because they were an expert in one field they would automatically be an expert in another? Methinks Don Chance thinks he's "special", too....

There's no such thing as being an expert on social commentary. There is such a thing as being an expert on derivatives. Expertise isn't really at issue here anyway.

As a long-time university professor, he's probably as good as anyone for commenting on grade inflation and the trends among various subsets of his students.

"We can blame Mr. Rogers" isn't a personal attack, it's just his way of characterizing the attitude he sees in the whiners versus the non-whiners. From TFA, all the harsh stuff about Mr. Rogers was from some yahoo message board anyway.

Begging for a grade when you didn't make the grade is stupid and doesn't help anyone. If you do this successfully, go DIAF.

stiletto_the_wise: Bingo, but I wouldn't blame just Soccer. Pretty much every "activity" your kid can sign up for these days is the "everyone wins, trophies for all" type. Nobody learns how to accept and grow from failure or loss.


Exactly! But AYSO did it first, so I'm going to criticize them for it.


Daffydil: We're a society of blamers.


If the 70's-80's where "The ME decades" the 90's-00's are "The Not-ME decades" This was the theme of my Sociology thesis. Feel free to rip me off when writing a self-help or pseudo-scientific societal book. I wont sue for "Not-Me decade" or "The Everyone Plays Generation", both my ideas. Send me a signed copy, we'll call it even.

Is Mr. Rogers to blame for a generation that thinks it's so "special"?


^Hard_to^say_.^Was_he ^still_{alivewhenParis Hilton ^wasgrowing up?}

Personally, I blame Chrissy Hines.

And Clear Channel.

Did anybody read the article?

WHA-wha-what!? Are we making that a requirement now?!

The point of catchy taglines is so the rest of us do not have to read the article.. and can jump right into commenting. It is a tried and true delicate balance that should not be tinkered with.

I agree with Fireball_XL5. The Pill became available in the early 60s, which is where the Baby Boom came to an abrupt halt. You can't feel all that "special" when you've got a dozen others like you in the family, but parents tend to treat kids as more valuable when there are only two or three of them.

/never watched Mr. Rogers
//Baby Boomer
///yeah, I'm ancient

read this if you want to know what Mr. Rogers was really about.

I blame my parents


/MST3K FTW

My mom drank when she was pregnant with me and my siblings. I asked her about that and she maintains it "wasn't very much, and we didn't know any better in those days".

My brother and I both have ADD, and my sister has MS.

No worries really, we can all deal, but I would advise parents to not drink when pregnant.

/no proof of any connection, but we're a family of retards. Great.

Assign TV to everything, including the responsibility for raising your children and the blame for when it all goes wrong.

Parents are responsible. The failure of today's children most likely stems from the obsessive self-centered nature of the baby-boomer generation and their lax control of their kids, not a recently deceased protestant minister with a 1/2 hour TV show.

Mr. Scorpion: How about the Tyler Durden Show?

"Hi Kids! You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. We are all part of the same compost heap. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else."

"Yeah, with enough permanent markers we can draw on just about anything."

"I am Jack's juice box, I spill and stain Jack's clothes."

I am Jacks growing sense of amusement!
Nice one!

Oh, please. EVERY generation thinks it's so goddamn special. And I never begged for a grade in my life. I take what I earn, whether it be an A for effort or a big fat F.

How dare you blame Mr. Rogers for any negative aspect of today's children. If Mr. Rogers has done anything for kids, it has only been good things. Mr. Rogers can do no wrong, literally. That man was a lovely soul, and in preaching to children that they were unique and special made himself special.


/is part of this "special" generation
//this article is a load of BS

I call this article utter BS especially to blame Mr Rogers. It can be many factors; parents, schools, TV, music, marketing ads that say "You deserve the best", etc, etc..

YES, THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT
ALL YOURS

/might not be able to get away with 'shopping things at work

Mr. Rogers doesn't sleep. He waits.

If Mr. Rogers is late for something, then time better just slow the fark down.

Mr. Rogers's tears cure cancer. It's too bad he never cried.

Oops, I accuse my parents

ricbach229: Did any of you even read the article? Yeah it's initial hook was that Mr. Rogers screwed up the world by telling every kid they're special, but the meat was that everyone seems to be saying that. Parents are trying to demote themselves to the level of their children, aren't pushing them to actually excel, only to be special and good at being what they are naturally (which doesn't take into account that naturally we're about useless even to ourselves).

If parents aren't pushing their children, discussing higher level subjects in front of their children even if the child is only an observer, the kids are never allowed to think beyond their own experience, which isn't much.

The column was started with a thesis that Mr Rogers "everyone is special and you're great just the way you are" screwed things up. The professors quoted agreed that people are getting more screwed up and expectant of greatness rather than chasing after it.

Let's put it this way: any journalist that feels the need to slam Fred Rogers to get me to read his article doesn't deserve my time.

One of my exes cheated on me with that bastard Mr. Rogers, I blame him for my mistrust and mild hatred of women now.

LoHung_Dong

And once again I think we may have been separated at birth. While everyone else is quick to jump on your views for being "down" I have to say you nailed it square on the head.

/And, are you dating my fiance? Because her family gatherings take on a similar tone quickly.
//such as being told I'm cheap for not wanting to spend more than $2000 on a wedding photographer. $2k? cheap? FFS.
///I say we buy an island and start our own nation
////It can be a small island apparently
/yay slashies.

There is such a thing as being an expert on derivatives. Expertise isn't really at issue here anyway.

So, in other words, he's just flapping his gums like all the other "special" people he whines about. Whatta guy.

"We can blame Mr. Rogers" isn't a personal attack, it's just his way of characterizing the attitude he sees in the whiners versus the non-whiners.

"It wasn't a personal attack, he was just attacking a person's legacy." A person, one might add, who's not around to defend himself.

From TFA, all the harsh stuff about Mr. Rogers was from some yahoo message board anyway.

TFA's second damn paragraph said: "They felt so entitled," (Chance) recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers." He called him "(a) representative of a culture of excessive doting." Harsh much?

IOW, this "expert" blames someone who had almost nothing to do with today's kids (as I said, his most popular years were before today's generation of college kids were even born), then you defend him by claiming he is no expert (superior quality control by the WSJ here, huh?) and saying that he never said anything too bad in the first place (which is strange then that he headlines a Mr. Rogers-bashing article then, isn't it?).

But what do I know? After all, I'm a guy who watched Mr. Rogers as a kid and has zero self-esteem.

"Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given"

As a sometimes TA: um... no.

Watching Mr. Rogers taught me what it felt like to be stoned. The man was hypnotic and trippy when I was a kid.

/Planet Purple, indeed

Rapmaster2000: Young Black Dolph Lundgren

I blame society.


Duke: The lights are growing dim Otto. I know a life of crime has led me to this sorry fate, and yet, I blame society. Society made me what I am.
Otto: That's bullshiat. You're a white suburban punk just like me.
Duke: Yeah, but it still hurts.

Well played, sir.

I kind of hope Ruppert guts the WSJ now. It is not cool to talk ill of Fred Rogers. Not cool.

FTA: "Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names?...When a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders."


Remember, kids don't become people until they've earned it.

No. My sister is retarded. Blame the PC asshats.

Generalizations are so much fun... where else can you throw a completely irrelevant statement across an entire age group, and get people to read your article, take you seriously, and then argue about it?

AlgaeRancher

That book is currently displayed on my coffee table.

Mr. Rogers was truly a great man. We need more people like him in our world.

/RIP

When I read this in the Journal this morning, in the actual physical newspaper, my first thought was: "Oh, this will definitely go green".

Really.

Thanks for not disappointing!

um...NO.
I blame the parents of these kids, who instead of giving them a good slap on the ass once in a while are constantly telling them how farkin' amazing they are each time they bring home a B+.
For fark's sake, nobody ever told ME im special when i was a kid even though i was a friggin child genius....sheesh!

rainstorm,

"And once again I think we may have been separated at birth. While everyone else is quick to jump on your views for being "down" I have to say you nailed it square on the head."

Hey, I'll fully admit that I'm down. Hell, even worse, I'm probably clinically depressed with a side order of bipolar disorder (thanks for the genes, mom). However, I just get insanely bothered when people say something is the greatest thing in the world when it is just as imperfect as anything else.

/I believe our wedding photographer was twice what you mentioned, and the pics sucked
//any islands off the coast of New Zealand available?

No. But I do blame him for my speech impediment. I end every sentence with the words "meow, meow".


...(meow, meow)

Every day when I get home from work I have a Mr. Rogers moment. I change out of my office monkey suit, and at a minimum, change my shoes.

It's fantastic.

Friar Tuck: I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo. (I am 40 years old) I do not remember the message from ANY of these shows being that I am entitled to anything I did not earn via working for it.

Word, Friar. (See how I used that urban colloquialism to appear "hip" for the youngsters?) My wife and I are the same age, raised on the same TV diet (plus lots of Scooby and Looney Tunes). The messages I recall were basically about being curious, respectful, and treating others well. Nothing at all about entitlement.

I blame the MTV generation, which was raised on cable (rather than broadcast) TV and niche-marketed to beyond belief. We had Tonka, they had Transformers. We had cap guns, they had Nintendo. We tended to raise our kids more like our WWII-born parents, while they are raising a generation of spoiled Brittany/Ashley/Kaitlins who expect $30K weddings, cars at graduation, and will be lucky if their own kids are able to feed themselves without assistance.

Fred Rogers genuinely loved and understood children. And his show was an undeniable force for good in this world. Unlike those child-raping bastards on Sesame Street.

Combat Medici: Fred Rogers genuinely loved and understood children. And his show was an undeniable force for good in this world. Unlike those child-raping bastards on Sesame Street.

We need to blame Cookie Monster. He always felt entitled to another cookie.

Well I never.
There is not a single solitary instance that I can recall of Mr. Rogers saying special mean s you can be a complete ASSHAT...EVER.
This entitlement crap that they speak of...
Whoopie Goldberg has it right. You will just have to look it up and what not.
It isn't Mr. Rogers. Maybe Elmo. I blame Elmo.

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.

/fight club

Why is it okay to blame an entire demographic's shortcomings on one person?

"We need to blame Cookie Monster. He always felt entitled to another cookie."

You can't blame Cookie Monster. He had an addiction. Addiction is a disease. He's not responsible.

Is it just me that thinks this is being way overblown? Kids are special. Every one. What this does not mean is that the world revolves around them, or that they won't have to work for things like everyone else, but every kid should be given respect as the individuals that they are. "I'm OK, You're OK", is a lot different than "I'm OK, You Suck".

So, a scenario could play out where a kid loses a soccer match. Instead of the obligatory "everyone gets a trophy" the message could be "well, some people are better than soccer than you, I believe you could do better if you try and I'll help you get there because you matter."

Sending the "suck it kid you're nothing but dirt" seems to be the opposite extreme of "you are perfect and above criticism". Both are abusive.

aphexcoil: Has it occurred to anyone that the MTV Generation *IS* special?

No. No, it has not. And for a very simple reason. It's not.

Special. Not yours.

I was a Mr. Rogers Finatic as a kid, and know for a fact that I'm not special.

Don't blame Fred.

Third Man,

I'm 99% sure there's no way in hell Don Chance has any personal issues with Mr. Rogers or his legacy. This is starting to get comical. You realize the use of Mr. Rogers is symbolic, right?

For example, whenever someone says "South Park conservative", they are not referencing the South Park show specifically. They are talking about a set of perceived political stances that the show seems to represent. If the show never existed, those stances would still exist and perhaps some other term would be used.

If Mr. Rogers never existed, all the other cultural factors resulting in whiny little biatches would probably still exist, thus this phenomenon would exist. Then perhaps some other term or famous person's name would be used to symbolize it. If anyone who loved Mr. Rogers love him any less because of this article, or anyone who hated him hates him any more because of it, I'll eat my hat.

It just sounds like there's no news, but guess what the WSJ will still be just as thick. If you recall what I said about expertise, or if it's easier:

"Expertise isn't really at issue here anyway.
As a long-time university professor, he's probably as good as anyone for commenting on grade inflation and the trends among various subsets of his students."

you can see that I called it a non-factor. I'm apparently not the one with expertise issues. There's really a raw nerve here. Excessive doting? Have you SEEN the show? I come away with many many positive things to say, but if you press me for a negative, excessive doting sounds fair to me. I don't think WSJ was out choosing "Mr. Rogers Experts" or anything like that. They might have been irresponsible in juxtaposing the vitriol from yahoo answers with Don's comparatively tame criticism, however.

Now I'm on troll patrol, so I may not respond again. Fair warning :)

Combat Medici: Fred Rogers genuinely loved and understood children. And his show was an undeniable force for good in this world. Unlike those child-raping bastards on Sesame Street.

Child raping on Sesame Street?...really?

...that's good to know... cause I was running out of fap material.

wicked_sprite

"...but every kid should be given respect as the individuals that they are."

WRONG! Simply existing doesn't entitle anyone to respect. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe respect is something that must be earned.

As another Farker pointed out earlier, if everyone is special, then nobody is special.

screeching: "YES It's mister rogers fault!"

One more good reason to hate the WSJ.

Those bastards or special, too.

popstop: My friend explained to me that, while it was disgusting, when he opened the door, it smeared his son's feces into the carpet.

Wow, I read that first as "he smeared his son's face into the carpet"

Thats what I would've done

Since 1900, parents have been sending their kids off to be raised by government schools. Schools create childish adults who suffer from boredom - an inability to fill their own time, a poor sense of self, emotionally immature and it's easy to see the connection between these things and the social woes we struggle with despite all our dazzling technology. These incomplete adults have kids who grow up in school... and so on. The problem is even worse in the inner city black community, where the usual things that make a stable home life (like knowing who your father is, or having parents who aren't in prison, etc.) aren't even missed because the people there actually don't know about them.

This problem, therefore, will get worse before it gets better. It will get better. There are more parents every year opting not to send their kids to school; but as you can imagine, things are going to get worse first. In my town they haven't yet set up noise pollution laws the way some large cities have, and today there isn't anywhere you can go, except a gated community, without having your head jarred by a car with a subwoofer. We are creating children who are more jaded and unempathic than the last generation. Even lifers in prison remark that the new generation is meaner and more viciously psychotic than they ever were. I was walking through town today and saw all the white collar workers having lunch in quaint little cafes that have been set up along a kind of outside mall, and I thought, they work down town and then go home to the suburbs, up north and far away from the strife and the dumb ugliness of those who live in the city residential areas. They're indifferent; but how long before Alex and his droogs are too many in number that they can't help spilling over into your gated communities?

Interesting times? You haven't seen anything, yet.

I couldn't agree more with the article (not the opener about Mr. Roger's but the points made in the bulk of it). Parent's shouldn't neglect their kids but acting like their entire world revolves around them isn't good for children either. In order for them to learn who they are and how to be self reliant, they can't have mommy and daddy hovering over them telling them what perfect special angels they are. Also, as for talking to kids like adults, most kids I know like being spoken to like adults. Yeah, going through the latest issue of The Economist with them will be boring but letting them hear you talk about things that are going on in the world and encouraging them to have opinions and to think about these topics is great. When I was a kid I loved that my dad talked to me about "grown-up things" like politics and philosophy and the fact that he didn't obviously dumb down his conversation for me (though I'm sure he did in some ways)made me want to keep learning. Also feeling comfortable having real conversations with my parents made me feel closer to them and more willing to talk to them about other things later in life.

Adman12: IdBeCrazyIf: Child raping on Sesame Street?...really?

I guess you never saw the episode when Ernie found Bert's torture chamber in the boiler room of their building.

Sadly I missed that... it has become apparent however that I need to start putting it on my to watch list.

I don't know about the Rogers thing, but I do blame the Friendly Giant for my weight problem...and Mr. Dressup for my transvestism.

/don't even ask about Chez Helene

GoldSpider

WRONG! Simply existing doesn't entitle anyone to respect. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe respect is something that must be earned.

So, when I see a kid in a stroller, I should disrepect them? Sorry, I'll give people around me repect until they prove they shouldn't have it anymore. As an old-fashioned guy, that should qualify to you as manners and politeness. Saying "please" and "thank you" to people are forms of respect you give strangers. I will respect people until they prove they don't deserve it. Trust, however, is a different matter. If I respect you long enough, you begin to earn my trust.

Trophies for showing up.
Graduating from Pre-school, Kindergarten, 1st grade, 2nd etc.. with cap and gown.
Everyone plays.
Everyone gets a speaking part in the play.
Blah blah....

I could go on....

Remember:

Only you can prevent narcissism.

/best bumper sticker ever

General Panic:

Curse you PBS for blighting the world with his taint


Now THAT'S a visual I could do without....

KIDS TODAY!!!! biatch biatch biatch biatch biatch. Why in my day lie lie lie lie lie. They should be more like them Aazuns, you ever seen one of them aazuns? Well they don't give no lip. Unlike these little spoiled bastards biatch biatch biatch biatch. Damn media, tellin kids they're worth somthing, that's why I don't like my job! Not b/c I actually have to interact with people, but b/c of the media!

When the fark did Archie Bunker get tenure?

My mom thought that Mr. Rogers was teh geh pervert, so we were not allowed to watch him.

wicked_sprite

So, when I see a kid in a stroller, I should disrepect them?

No, you can (and should) still be courteous and considerate. However I think you've confused that with a word that once upon a time was synonymous with admiration.

Now if you word it that way, do you "admire" a kid in a stroller for simply being a kid in a stroller?

We are all equally special.

TheGreyPiper: LoHungDong:

I'll gladly buy you a one-way ticket to North Korea if you're so fed up with this disgusting country of ours.

/Yer on yer own for the entry visa.

Make it Norway, and you're on.

I'm 99% sure there's no way in hell Don Chance has any personal issues with Mr. Rogers or his legacy. This is starting to get comical. You realize the use of Mr. Rogers is symbolic, right?

And what I'm saying is that as a symbol, he's a bad choice. Can't he have picked Pauly Shore or something, for cryin' out loud? The whole point of symbolism is that the symbol actually stands for something. Mr. Rogers demonstratably does not stand for "a generation of spoiled children," and that is what I am arguing.

There's really a raw nerve here. Excessive doting? Have you SEEN the show?

Uh, I did say that in my second post. Did you read it?

And I am hardly the only one defending Mr. Rogers here, and in fact I am far from the most vocal about it. I had the misfortune, it appears, to disagree with you about it.

I don't think WSJ was out choosing "Mr. Rogers Experts" or anything like that.

Yeah, funny that, in an article slamming Mr. Rogers, the author didn't think of including any points of view which defended him. Proof, I suppose, that even the WSJ is a bastion of crappy journalism. Come up with an idea, then talk to a bunch of people who agree with you.

They might have been irresponsible in juxtaposing the vitriol from yahoo answers with Don's comparatively tame criticism, however.

What the hell were they doing taking anonymous message board comments as news-worthy? "Irresponsible" doesn't even cover it. Again, the credibility of the WSJ is in the toilet here.

Now I'm on troll patrol, so I may not respond again. Fair warning :)

I guess in your world "troll" means "someone who disagreed with my special commentary." Sorry, in the real world people disagree. Deal.

I blame those damn Teletubbies!!! Namely Tinky Winky

Mister Rogers talks to the US Senate in 1969 regarding funding for his show. What a class act.

I blame society





I also blame the reporter.

Headline:
Blame It on Mr. Rogers

From the article:
Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this.

Fred Rogers died because he heard Chris Hansen was gunning for him.

mr rogers - share with your friends
pokemon - gotta catch 'em ALL!

which is more harmful?

Dear Parents and WSJ:

Please STFU and GBTW. Quit blaming YOUR mistakes on everything else. Quit making crappy TV your babysitter, and quit freaking out and getting all litigious when your little angel gets a scrape on the kneee on the playground!!!

And most improtantly, leave Mr. Rogers, Captain Kangaroo, Bob Ross and the Cast of Sesame Street the fark alone.

Signed,

The World

I do blame Mr. Rogers for all the niceness in the world. Speedy Delivery!

Mr Rogers was an awesome awesome guy. I grew up watching him and can honestly say I never went to beg for grades or felt it was owed to me because I showed up.

Conclusion 1. WSJ and that prof fail. Leave Fred Rogers the Fark alone.

My parents raised me to always call people by Mr. Mrs. Miss Ms. (btw why to women get so many and we only get one?) until the person said to call them by name. I still call people from childhood Mr. and Mrs. and I'm 22. They also didn't devote hours to hearing about my day. They also disciplined me for doing stuff that I shouldn't. I wasn't told "You're special" every ten minutes and I never got off on the "He's just a kid" defense.

Conclusion 2. My parents were just that, parents. People who have kids but don't parent them, fail. Instead of looking where the blame lies they blame everyone and everything else.

"Well isnt that Special?"

This article is right on the money. Mr. Rogers on his own wasn't the problem (there have always been people who acted like he did around kids) but that he was on television taught millions of parents that they should act the same way towards their kids.

Sorry, soze... You know, I read TFA and came in here just to read your reaction.

And what I'm saying is that as a symbol, he's a bad choice. Can't he have picked Pauly Shore or something, for cryin' out loud? The whole point of symbolism is that the symbol actually stands for something. Mr. Rogers demonstratably does not stand for "a generation of spoiled children," and that is what I am arguing.

You seem way more heated and pissed at WSJ and Don Chance than "oh they picked a poor choice of symbol." Without knowing anything about him other than his poor symbol choice, you seem to resent that he might in fact be qualified to opine on something he's done for many years, namely teach students, give grades, and listen to the biatching of wannabe A students.

There's really a raw nerve here. Excessive doting? Have you SEEN the show?
Uh, I did say that in my second post. Did you read it?

This is an example of why I suspect you may be a troll. You selectively cropped some of my text and then accused me of not reading your post. You in fact did not read the next line or two of my post where I explain that among the many good things to be said about Mr. Rogers, "excessive doting" is a fair negative criticism.

And I am hardly the only one defending Mr. Rogers here, and in fact I am far from the most vocal about it. I had the misfortune, it appears, to disagree with you about it.

I don't think we disagree on anything of substance here. I was just surprised at the fun you had on your "jump to conclusions mat" here:
And in what alternate universe does a financial expert suddenly also become an expert on parenting and social commentary? How could anyone have such chutzpah to think that because they were an expert in one field they would automatically be an expert in another? Methinks Don Chance thinks he's "special", too....

Once again, there's no such thing as an expert on parenting and social commentary. How in the world could you validate claims of expertise on "social commentary" and "parenting"?

Yeah, funny that, in an article slamming Mr. Rogers, the author didn't think of including any points of view which defended him. Proof, I suppose, that even the WSJ is a bastion of crappy journalism. Come up with an idea, then talk to a bunch of people who agree with you.

Once again, that's because it's not an attack on Mr. Rogers, it's an attack on a social trend for which Don chose Mr. Rogers as a symbol. They isolated one of the few possible negatives of his show (as I point out above, from among many positives) - excessive doting - and proceed to criticize that. The article's not about criticizing the man, as if to say if his show never aired them kids would be a-ok.

What the hell were they doing taking anonymous message board comments as news-worthy? "Irresponsible" doesn't even cover it. Again, the credibility of the WSJ is in the toilet here.

Fair enough. As I said before, slow news day. Or maybe they assumed popular message boards contained popular opinion, who knows.

I guess in your world "troll" means "someone who disagreed with my special commentary." Sorry, in the real world people disagree. Deal.

Yes, yes, "in my world". Another instance of jumping to conclusions about other people of which you know nothing about. Which was the original issue I took with you over Prof. Chance. That's the other reason for thinking you might be troll-y. (no relation to Mr Rogers' Trolley) Or, you could just be the sort who likes to get a rise out of people. Which, oh yeah, is what trolls do! Doesn't it ever get old?

TFA cites, in order of decreasing reliability:

* Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions [within rich, dysfunctional families in the country's second-most-narcissistic urban area)

* The Yahoo Answers Web site

* Some crusty professor who once knew something about derivatives

The WSJ Opinion section used to be the isolation ward for crazy right-wing crankery. TFA suggests the disease has escaped and is spreading. If Rupert Murdoch buys the WSJ, it will become an epidemic of stupidity.

/reads the FT

Harry: You're NOT special Lloyd.
Lloyd: Huh...
...