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(Wall Street Journal)   Is Mr. Rogers to blame for a generation that thinks it's so "special"?   (online.wsj.com) divider line 324
    More: Unlikely  
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15314 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jul 2007 at 12:12 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-07-05 12:43:47 PM
nmawards.com

The REAL culprit here.


Pansy-ass AYSO
 
2007-07-05 12:43:57 PM
Hobodeluxe: corporal punishment is necessary early on to establish consequence.

There are other ways to establish consequences and boundaries besides smacking a kid. Children aren't stupid - the main premise behind the "spanking is the only way that works" mentality is that children simply can't comprehend any consequence except physical pain, and that's wrong. There are certain instances in which a smack would be somewhat congruent - like if a kid tries to walk into oncoming traffic. Teaching kids that walking in front of cars equals physical pain could save their life. On the other hand, brutally smacking a kid because he talks while you're watching sitcoms after work teaches them that daddy or mommy gets violent when they're angry.

The problem is that far too many people buy into this entire "punishment and consequences" world view for everything, which can make kids bitter and paranoid. If you raise your child to think that there's a consequence to everything, they become frustrated later on in life when they have to start to deal with situations that have delayed benefits or detriments, or when faced with situations that could but simply don't have any consequence.
 
2007-07-05 12:44:39 PM
"the world is starting to revolve around children and it sucks. "

Because the "upper class" and "educated" people ALL only have one or maybe two kids, any more interferes with their jobs and so forth. Only got one kid, you better protect it! Got 12 kids? Eh, you know, if one screws up (and one will, if you have 12 kids, no matter how good a parent you are) you got others.

It's why America and all of Western Europe would have declining populations if not for immigration.
 
2007-07-05 12:45:04 PM
i'm special so i'm really getting a kick out of these replies
 
2007-07-05 12:45:16 PM
I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo. (I am 40 years old) I do not remember the message from ANY of these shows being that I am entitled to anything I did not earn via working for it.

What Mr. Rogers saying "You are special, just the way you are." mean to me is that it was Ok for me to be me. There was also the message that it was Ok to change things about myself that needed changing. If you look at a number of the Neighborhood of Make Believe segments, they were about a character having some sort of "flaw", people who cared bringing it to their attention and them making a change for the better.

I also agree with what has been said about parental involvement. Any parent that relies solely on "educational shows" to teach their child(ren) is an idiot who should not breed. I have a three year old son. My wife and I use educational TV as a tool to help us to teach him. We are careful of what shows we allow him to watch and plan on continuing to do so as he gets older. As much as possible, we use what he watches to show him how he should and should not behave. Granted, he may not totally understand yet, but we are forming the habits to make this easier in the future.

As any little child would, he wants everything he sees in the store. He does not get it and has been taken out of stores kicking and screaming because he could not get the toy he wants. A lot of parents use material possessions to make up for the time they cannot, or are unwilling to, spend with their child. This sets a dangerous precedence that leads to the sense of entitlement.
 
2007-07-05 12:46:31 PM
I saw this sweet sixteen show on the MTV the other day. Holy sheeeeet! I couldn't believe it. I don't have much contact with teens these days and I hope to god they aren't really like this.

My mother would have beaten them bloody with a wooden spoon if one of her kids ever carried on like those little biatches. I couldn't believe it.
 
2007-07-05 12:46:31 PM
Oh, hobodeluxe, I'm not that much younger than you, and I disagree about hitting. Hitting kids that age when they do something wrong just teaches them that it's OK to hit if you're bigger and/or you want to get your way.
 
2007-07-05 12:46:53 PM
And once again the baby boomer parents and a willing media shift the blame onto someone else. What else is new?

/cue the "it's your life, man - do whatever you want" Ameriphase retirement commercial
//who the hell listens to Dennis Hopper for retirement advice
///he's better at drug advice
 
2007-07-05 12:47:31 PM
I always wanted to live in a house like your's my friend
Maybe when there's nobody home, I'll break in
Married a woman who said she was rich
Took all her money, walked out on the biatch
Would you be mine, could you be mine
Won't you be my neighbor


In all seriousness though, I blame the society and parents. I'm 24 and am part of this generation of entitlement. I was fortunate enough to have parents who told me "life is tough, work hard and you will be rewarded according to your work and perserverance". Now with 3 kids of my own, I am disgusted at the way parent of my generation and even new parents within my generation treat their children like the Lords of the House. We have ceased to assume our right and obligation as parents to guide our children to be productive adults. I'm ashamed of our society, each year is more worthless than the next, with politics and entertainment taking precedence over knowledge and accomplishment.

/my soapbox broke underneath the weight
 
2007-07-05 12:47:46 PM
So now the idiot boomer parents want to blame a dead guy for the farked up state of their offspring? Give me a break!

I could go on and on with possible causes (overscheduling, overprotection, spoiling) but instead I'll stick with the fact that so many of these parents really believe their kid is special. When I was growing up (not too long ago) the really 'special' kids rode in a short bus and wore helmets to class. No doubt Jeff Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were also 'special.'
 
2007-07-05 12:47:48 PM
LocalCynic -- actually, kids are stupid...their KIDS! And I doubt anyone is actually talkig about "brutally smacking" their kid....a slight wack on the behind is not going to hurt anyone. Especially nowadays when we have a bunch of little fatties running around.
 
2007-07-05 12:47:57 PM
I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo.

You forgot Nickelodean (1981 - Pinwheel), 3-2-1 Contact, Bozo the Clown, etc.
 
2007-07-05 12:48:00 PM
every generation thinks the following one or two are going to hell in a handbasket... nothing to see here. I would guess the difference is that it is just in your face a bit more with the intra-web machine
 
2007-07-05 12:49:55 PM
Oh come...on.

Must we attack the last vessel of something right and good?

Heres what Fred taught me.
-Cooperation
-Not to fear failure.
-To think outside the box
-How pencils were made...Thank you picture, picture.
-The value of being polite
-Not to take myself too seriously

In a drunken rant I once proclaimed. There were only two people I would blindly follow into war if they asked me and it still holds true.

-Fred Rogers
-Optimus Prime
 
2007-07-05 12:49:56 PM
LocalCynic 2007-07-05 12:43:57 PM
There are other ways to establish consequences and boundaries besides smacking a kid.

---------------

I agree. Hitting children is cruel and unnecessary.

I prefer to hang mine by the feet from the 2nd story window. Straightens them out really quick.
 
2007-07-05 12:51:00 PM
Yes of course. Today's children are clearly the worst ever. It's not as if our parents weren't considered selfish little snots by our grandparents. Our Great grand parents would probably have a lot to say about our grand parents.

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect
their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently
inhabit taverns and have no self control."
Inscription, 6000 year-old Egyptian tomb



"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Attributed to Peter the Hermit, AD 1274
 
2007-07-05 12:51:13 PM
popstop: Hitting kids that age when they do something wrong just teaches them that it's OK to hit if you're bigger and/or you want to get your way.

??? When did this stop being true? Kids should learn it sooner rather than later.
 
2007-07-05 12:51:21 PM
popstop: Ugh, this article pisses me off. Somehow this professor's conjectures on the behaviors of his particular students are newsworthy. And he's taken that conjecture and made it into a myopic generalization of an entire generation. Even if I truly believed that this generation was more narcissistic than the past (like elders didn't think the same about teens in the 50s and 70s), pinning it on Mr. Rogers is spectacularly ridiculous.

I'm sure there are still going to be farkers that agree with this schmuck and think the current generation is worse than the last and that all parents of this generation are idiots.


EXACTLY!!!!

We can all make some unflattering generalizations about college professors: lush, horndog, dirty old man, fashion criminal, poor, etc.
 
2007-07-05 12:52:02 PM
viridian.mrks.org


"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."
 
2007-07-05 12:52:14 PM
UpstateMonkey: LocalCynic -- actually, kids are stupid...their KIDS! And I doubt anyone is actually talkig about "brutally smacking" their kid....a slight wack on the behind is not going to hurt anyone. Especially nowadays when we have a bunch of little fatties running around.

I've seen both extremes -- on one hand you have parents who let their kids walk all over them, and on the other hand some parents smack their kids for damned near anything. They're not necessarily so abusive that the kids are black and blue, but I've seen parents smack their kids in stores for behavior that could and should be stopped with a simple but assertive "NO." Some parents rely far too heavily on lifting their hand or a belt, and as a result you have kids who are incredibly bitter. Some of them lack backbone and are depressed, but others are just incredibly reckless and hedonistic.
 
2007-07-05 12:52:19 PM
my dad was in vietnam and he met fred rogers. he said mr. rogers had a beard, and was covered in tatoos. fark anyone who contradicts this. the cia uses celebrities all the time, because no one will beleive a celebrity is actually an agent..
 
2007-07-05 12:52:21 PM
I can't believe this shiat. I can't believe ANYONE would try to villainize Fred Rogers.

I met him. I sat in a cottage on Nantucket while he played piano and told funny stories about some of the mishaps filming his show. We weren't exactly close friends, but I was with him enough to realize that he was one of the most genuine people the world has ever known. Fred Rogers did not have a mean cell in his entire body, nor a dishonest one. He was the kindest person I ever had the fortune to meet.

Where were these media farks when he was alive and could defend himself? Which he would have done with class, honor, and honesty?

Screw the WSJ and everyone who believes the bile it spews.

I'm usually pretty irreverent on this forum, but this pisses me off. To hell with those coonts. Fred Rogers was one of the last good men in this increasingly farked up world.
 
2007-07-05 12:53:05 PM
Doesn't know what to make of this...
i194.photobucket.com
 
2007-07-05 12:53:36 PM
Smellvin: Baby seal blood doesn't count?

that's the natives the left wants us to protect until it comes to their traditions.
 
2007-07-05 12:53:47 PM
www.southparkx.net



I know I'm special. This isn't news to me.

 
2007-07-05 12:53:57 PM
"I grew up on Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, Electric Company and Captain Kangaroo. (I am 40 years old) I do not remember the message from ANY of these shows being that I am entitled to anything I did not earn via working for it."

Now now, actually knowing what you're talking about will prevent you from having conversations with today's breed of "conservatives." All they know is feelings
 
2007-07-05 12:54:02 PM
Albert: LocalCynic
There are other ways to establish consequences and boundaries besides smacking a kid.
---------------

I agree. Hitting children is cruel and unnecessary.

I prefer to hang mine by the feet from the 2nd story window. Straightens them out really quick.



/knitting needles and rubber bands work well too... I will leave it up to you folks to figure out how...
 
2007-07-05 12:54:29 PM
LocalCynic

The science of it actually is that punishment leads to 1) variations in behavior 2) negative affect (anxiety) 3) emotional responding 3)aggression. You're quite correct to point that out, but can you really say that there is a situation where there is no consequence? Even if there is a delayed consequence, there still are no situations I can think of that involve no consequence at all.

The trick of punishment is latency between behavior and punishment and pairing it with an otherwise neutral stimulus. As an example, at age 24, I still get a little anxious when my mother gives me the "eye of death" for doing things she doesn't entirely approve of. The pairing of disapproval and punishment eventually allows you to provide disapproval in the place of punishment.
 
2007-07-05 12:54:39 PM
3rdorderofsimulacra: my dad was in vietnam and he met fred rogers. he said mr. rogers had a beard, and was covered in tatoos. fark anyone who contradicts this. the cia uses celebrities all the time, because no one will beleive a celebrity is actually an agent..

I saw him farking my mom and telling her "You're special, you're special" over and over again. He then proceeded to show me his "neighbor".
 
2007-07-05 12:54:50 PM
Yes, you are correct, 1980s. Thank you for the information 1980s, you sure set everyone straight. I'm glad you keep on saying the same thing 1980s. You are in fact still the greatest generation alive--though you're not "special," of course. Punk no die, let's do some lines.

/You know, I think Drew grew up in the 1980s
 
2007-07-05 12:55:07 PM
Don Chance writes widely-used textbooks on derivatives, (options & futures) so he's not exactly an idiot.

Probably he just couldn't think of a reference other than Mr. Rogers to express his viewpoint.

I think it's a valid point though. Too many kids whine and cry their way into A's and I wish all teachers and profs were Don Chances who would tell them all to go fark themselves. If nobody capitulated then the whiny biatches would stop this shiat.

If you worked as hard as you could and didn't get an A in probability theory or derivatives, you're just not smart enough to get an A. What should the kids who actually earned A's get? A super-special A+++? But then the whiners will just beg for that too.
 
2007-07-05 12:55:12 PM
Bullshiat. Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street (the real thing before the Elmo crap), 3-2-1 Contact, and Mr. Wizard's World were real shows for kids. They actually had a point, and taught something. I think it is sad that when I have children in a few years, that they have nothing like those shows. They have fluff junk like Spongebob Squarepants and other shows with no point, lesson, or maturity. Mr. Rogers didn't talk down to kids, he spoke to them like people. If anything it is the shows that treat kids like morans that are making them special.

There are no shows on TV to rival any of the ones I mentioned, and cartoons are even worse now.

/geez, I must be getting old
//Get off my lawn!
 
2007-07-05 12:55:16 PM
Daffydil: We're a society of blamers.

I blame society.
 
2007-07-05 12:55:46 PM
MonkeyChrist: I have heard that Mr rogers was a trained sniper. He always wore the sweaters because he had full sleeves of military style ink. Does anyone have any links to documentation of this?

Not True.
 
2007-07-05 12:56:00 PM
I'm from Mr Rogers generation, and I know that I'm not a beautiful, unique snowflake.

Get off my lawn, Gen-Yers.
 
2007-07-05 12:57:03 PM
LoHung_Dong

Lighten up, dude. Turn off the television, take a vacation. Life's too short to be that f*cking down, no matter how right you think you are.
 
2007-07-05 12:57:04 PM
TFA: He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?"

I think it's important for children to be forced to think beyond themselves and their activities and interests. It might open a new door for them to explore.

And parents need to STOP telling little Johnny and Suzie that they can do whatever they want. They can't. Only rarely is someone good at everything they try. Most kids - and adults - would be better off finding something they really ARE good at and honing that skill.

/case in point: American Idol. *shudder*
//Mr. Rogers was a cool guy
 
2007-07-05 12:57:26 PM
Xerxes99 2007-07-05 12:54:02 PM
/knitting needles and rubber bands work well too... I will leave it up to you folks to figure out how...

-----------

Heh! I have mixed feeling regarding corporal punishment. It worked for my siblings and I when we were growing up (not often but hurt like hell when it happened) but my wife really doesn't want me hitting our boys so I've come up with some very creative solutions too.
 
2007-07-05 12:57:58 PM
I grew up watching Mr. Rogers, and I turned out just fine!

/except for my irrational fear of puppets...
 
2007-07-05 12:58:05 PM
Svengali4Life
This article is bullshiat! I AM SPECIAL!!

Welcome to the club, we've got our own ride.

www1.istockphoto.com
 
2007-07-05 12:58:56 PM
Daffydil:
We're a society of blamers

i26.photobucket.com
 
2007-07-05 12:59:11 PM
Young Black Dolph Lundgren

I blame society.
media.monstersandcritics.com

Duke: The lights are growing dim Otto. I know a life of crime has led me to this sorry fate, and yet, I blame society. Society made me what I am.
Otto: That's bullshiat. You're a white suburban punk just like me.
Duke: Yeah, but it still hurts.
 
2007-07-05 01:01:08 PM
img519.imageshack.us
 
2007-07-05 01:01:59 PM
I love how the media thinks they can paint an entire generation with
one brush. Everyone is different in some ways and the same in others. It doesn't matter when they're born.

Except the baby boomers, they're all assholes.

/except you, mom
 
2007-07-05 01:03:03 PM
MR ROGERS ROCKS!!

he's what makes america awesome.

NOT SMACKING YOUR CHILDREN WHEN THEY'RE ACTING LIKE LITTLE SPOIL BRATS IS WHAT MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE THEY'RE SO DAMNED "SPECIAL"

..it ain't abuse till someone bleeds people
 
2007-07-05 01:03:22 PM
Local Cynic:

I concur. Although discipline is important (indeed, it's the most important thing a parent can give a child, after love), most people miss the point. The purpose of discipline is to teach (hence its root in the word "disciple"), not to punish for its own sake. Although it has its place, punishment (especially corporal punishment) is overrated as a means of discipline. By contrast, as you point out, modeling correct behavior is underrated.

I'm a children's therapist IRL (so naturally I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.), and I can't tell you how many times I've worked with parents who are utterly mystified that their children have "anger management" problems. Probe a little deeper, and one typically finds that the parent has no idea how to manage his or her own anger. It is unreasonable to expect that kids will be able to master emotional tasks that their parents can't handle. Incidentally, nearly all of the kids I see with "anger problems" have been spanked.

As for the sense of entitlement, I think that comes, at least in part, from parents not spending enough time with their kids and then spoiling them (i.e., giving in to their every demand) out of a sense of guilt, or due to simple fatigue. Parenting is hard work, and it requires a lot of time and energy to do a decent job. Of course, parents also have to deal with modern economic realities, which often require both parents to work in order to make ends meet. It's a difficult situation, and I don't know anyone who is having an easy time of it.
 
2007-07-05 01:05:10 PM
i9.photobucket.com
 
2007-07-05 01:05:27 PM
Don Chance writes widely-used textbooks on derivatives, (options & futures) so he's not exactly an idiot.

Nick Leeson also wrote a widely-read book on derivatives, and he is most definitely an idiot.

And in what alternate universe does a financial expert suddenly also become an expert on parenting and social commentary? How could anyone have such chutzpah to think that because they were an expert in one field they would automatically be an expert in another? Methinks Don Chance thinks he's "special", too....
 
2007-07-05 01:07:24 PM
FTFA:
The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.
...
But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself.


Soooo, the children who came to his office had high expectations for themselves (earning A's) and came to his office seeking ways to earn extra points (working harder to reach those expectations). What is this guy biatching about again? Oh right, kids on the lawn.
 
2007-07-05 01:07:54 PM
Girl_in_Vegas: now matter how much of a spaz you were,

Are you a child of the 80s?

I haven't heard the term "spaz" used since 1984.

*snicker*



//yes I am!
 
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