angusyoung 2007-06-26 08:23:39 PM
Sorry, but Michael Moore is a tool.

Granted. He could still effect change without the parlor tricks, it just wouldn't be as shocking.

If he's that disgusted with his homeland, he should get the fark out.

Or maybe he should use his funds and film-making ability to try and raise awareness. Bring about some change in policy maybe?

/doesn't like moore... but he has a valid point.
//let's hope something is done about the system as it stands.
///Yes I am a healthcare worker.

So why does Moore still live in America?

/Bring back Elian

Well... I see all the usual suspects are here. What fun. Even Rippin Kitten, the bizarro version of me, is in this thread. How you doin' sweetie? Burn any good books today?

This will be my last post. Ever. After all the warm welcomes at my TF thread, I'm just sick of you assholes. Really. Bite my left tit.

So, let's get down to it. All the obvious has already been stated. They paid nothing for the medical treatment. They were there as part of a non-fiction documentary, which clearly fits within the legal allowance for journalists in Cuba. The movie is not partisan, doesn't take any potshots at conservatives, and is about something that all but the most ignorant, selfish people should just know is of vital interest to ALL Americans.

But then, some people like being American because it means they can shiat on other people and not give anything back to society. Selfish pricks.

I said it before, and I'll say it again-- The people who stand up against universal health care are the hardcore, can't-think-for-themselves, selfish, greedy conservatives who most resemble the Eric Cartmans of this country.

I can't wait to hear their gnashing of teeth and ranting galore once they lose the next Presidential election--- Even if they do win, it will probably be because they run with middle-of-the-road, pro-gay rights, pro-woman's right to choose, Rudy Giuliani. None of the other Republican candidates has a snowball's chance in Aruba.

Unless, of course, they rig another election. Entirely possible, although I don't think that's a very smart idea. Americans will eventually get wise and fight back if they see exit polls radically different from the outcome YET AGAIN.

So anyway, we need a universal health care system. If teachers are paid by our tax dollars, and cops, soldiers and firefighters are paid by our taxes, then why the hell shouldn't doctors and nurses and everyone in the medical field be on the government payroll? It's utterly ridiculous that a tax-funded firefighter can pull you out of a burning building and perform CPR, but as soon as he hands you off to the EMTs, the meter's running and you'd better have insurance or deep pockets.

Cops are paid to save and protect lives. They do so on the government's tax-funded dime. Doctors are paid to save and protect lives, but they do it as part of a private corporation that can jack up fees because they're run like a retail store or McDonalds instead of like a police department or military unit.

We have screwed up priorities in America. I love books, and love libraries, but I find it stupid that my taxes can pay for a place to borrow a book or use the Internet, but they simply CAN'T be used to ensure that I don't die from a medical issue.

I hate that my tax dollars go into frivolous things like parks and paying for my Congressperson's kidney transplant, but it cannot be used to pay for MY kidney transplant should I need one.

And I LIKE my Congressperson!

If you don't want to pay into the government-controlled universal health care system, then you should have to option to decline, but that means you are also solely responsible for paying all your your own medical expenses. If you'd rather pay the doctor when you need him, and keep your tax money, then I say more power to you, but you can't have it both ways. You either pay into the system and get to use it, or you don't.

You can still have your expensive doctor and name-brand pharmaceuticals. Nobody wants to take that away from you. We just want the option to pay taxes instead of insurance premiums, and get guaranteed care instead of being left to suffer with illness because we can't afford to be sick.

Yep. . . Lots of selfish, greedy, narrow-minded, Republican pundit-parroting asshats in here today. Ayn Rand would be proud of them. Ann Coulter is.

/Good bye.
//Seriously, I'm done.
///Enjoy the "she's gone" party.

Holly_Wight

Is that sarcasm?

Why doesn't the government take over the housing industry and make all construction workers government employees? We all need housing.

What about food, should the government take that over too? it's a necessity, nationalize it and make all the workers government employees.

And lets not forget transportation, another industry that is needed in order to live, nationalize that too?

/what slippery slope? it's a fun ride
//Hugo Chavez in 2008

well... I like you Holly_Wight :)
A view from every angle only further illuminates the scene :)

/that's why I don't typically bag on the far left or the far right.
//everyone is entitled to their opinion... no matter how bad it pisses someone off.
///just because I don't like what someone says, doesn't give me the right to shut them up.

America, not as free as you are told!

Sicko brought tears to my eyes. The real security footage of poor bewildered old folks still in hospital johnny shirts dumped out of a cabs onto skid row because they ran out of money while under care is sickening. I echo Michael Moore's sentiment and ask you is this really what Americans have become?

Go on, Michael Moore is fat. And Americans are degenerating fast into animals; human act better than that.

/disgusted

Gosh, a few days ago I thought Holly_Wight was playing at trolling. It turns out she just has a truckload of sand in her vagina. Seriously, you seem like a decent sort most the time, Holly_Wight, which is damned good for an opinionated Farker. You will be missed. I can't say I feel sorry for you, because whatever you do instead of Fark will probably be healthier and more educational, as long as you don't run off to some special-interest website where everyone jerks each other off and "supports" each other ;-)

Being someone who was tested for cancer the very same day that he went in for his physical whereas I may have had to wait days, or weeks, in Canada or the U.K., I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

GetBackJoe

"wait days or weeks" for what, the mail, your physical, the doctor or a pizza? Please explain..

If it's illegal, it's illegal. Michael Moore's movie was a crappy piece of propaganda in favor of socialism, and more importantly, against the US. Cuba definitely does not have as good health care as we do, it's a common socialist / communist tactic to have one expensive, well-staffed facility full of happy, smiling people, while the rest of the population is kept away by hired thugs so the visiting media don't get the real truth.

j0ndas


Maybe we should make calling out your own government illegal!



I love how all these retards attack Moore, but seem to honestly have no clue about the state of the world today.


Put down the bible and pick up the BBC for a change.

Holly_Wight: This will be my last post. Ever. After all the warm welcomes at my TF thread, I'm just sick of you assholes. Really. Bite my left tit.

Thank farking God, you are intolerable. Good riddance. However, it's noteworthy that I'm a member of your much maligned "conservative" community and I agree with you. I'm not socially conservative, but I am financially conservative, so I can post rebuttals like this:

But then, some people like being American because it means they can shiat on other people and not give anything back to society. Selfish pricks.

Like people who don't work at all and expect the rest of us to pay for their privilege of living? Yeah, we are the assholes. I work 10 hours a day for my family and don't want to give money to someone who doesn't work at all. You are correct, I'm the selfish one. It's my fault you don't think your needs are being addressed, not yours.

I guess at this point I call you selfish, but your ego and relentless self-interest are so well established I doubt it would matter to you at all. I'd also point out how you are so much like those you malign it's approaching comedy, but you wouldn't listen to that, either.

But you've hit on a good point I agree with, although our reasoning is different. Health care cannot be a commodity. It's like making water a commodity - economic laws fail because there isn't an option to not purchase it. Really, choosing to not purchase health care in some instances is choosing death. Who willingly does that?

Operating health insurance or hospitals for profit focuses the primary goal towards earning money, not providing care. The system fails across the board, and even as a conservative I see how it becomes more expensive to provide less service without forced regulation. For the people who scream "but they are taking my money!" - we are already subsidizing health care for people who can't pay for it, and we are getting less product for the money we pay. Health care is no longer a free market product, and as the Boomers retire the "market" is going to skew towards even higher prices because they can spend their retirement savings (which are substantial) on the same product the younger generations use.

Take out the profit motive of almost everyone with an interest in health care, and the costs will go down. Service will suffer, possibly, but this is America. I fully expect a shadow "private" health care system to sprout for the rich. Fine. The poor will still have an option.

My two cents.

Remember kids,



What's so damned hard to understand about "Going to Cuba without a visa is illegal?"

And yeah, I'm sure that socialized health care is working out graet down there. Funny thing, though - my job is to stop hundreds of migrants a day leaving Cuba. I haven't yet seen a boat full of people going the opposite direction. Wonder why...

This reminds me of an earlier fark thread, as said-

Roman Fyseek-

Democrats are never afraid of spending your money on some frivolous crap to tell somebody else what they can and can't do with their private property.

And as I said-

Republicans are never afraid of spending your money on some frivolous crap to tell somebody else what they can and can't do with their body.

Both sides are equally evil and destructive to our freedoms... if only the drones on both sides would see this, as the anti freedom infringes are equal. Socialistic/Communistic/Authoritarian Michael Moore and Al Gore mysticism drones are no different than the Theocratic/Altruistic/Authoritarian Bush drones.
Theocratic/Altruistic/Authoritarian Bush drones.

FWIW... If I'm dying, I'll go ANYWHERE to get fixed... laws be damned. I want to live.

Vertdang: If I'm dying, I'll go ANYWHERE to get fixed... laws be damned. I want to live.

Thank you for proving my point.

I've always hated the Cuba embargo. My country should be able to advise me where not to go. And if I decide to go there, well they shouldn't be forced to pick me up.
The only time the government should have a say where I can and can not go is in time of war.

cybrwzrd:

And as I said-

Republicans are never afraid of spending your money on some frivolous crap to tell somebody else what they can and can't do with their body.

Both sides are equally evil and destructive to our freedoms... if only the drones on both sides would see this, as the anti freedom infringes are equal. Socialistic/Communistic/Authoritarian Michael Moore and Al Gore mysticism drones are no different than the Theocratic/Altruistic/Authoritarian Bush drones.

The difference is that Republicans who get caught stealing money from taxpayers for their pet project are considered bad, while Democrats who get caught stealing money from taxpayers for their pet project are considered "compassionate". There are some honest Republicans - Congressman Todd Akin in my state, for instance - but you can't find a Democrat who isn't interested in pushing expansion of social programs, and in terms of overall damage to the country, socialism is way more damaging than greed. Socialism turns people into sheep waiting for handouts, resulting in a death spiral of dependence on the gov't.

As for Republicans telling you what you can and can't do, what about the massive amount of liberal feminist propaganda that basically says you're a pathetic weenie waiting for men to stomp on you if you want to just stay home and take care of a family? What about sex ed classes, classes on tolerance towards gays? What do you think happens if you publicly say the slightest thing bad about blacks as a group, whether or not your point is valid? Most of these issues have two mutually exclusive viewpoints, and promoting one side basically means rejecting the other. There is no "tolerant" side.

if your nation-state can force you to die for a cause you may or may not believe in, why can't it use the same power to make sure you survive?

most cons will support the whole free market argument when it comes to private insurance vs. nationalized health care... until the insurance company refuses to pay the claims on their husband/wife who has contracted cancer. then they realize the truth of the market. there are certain things that need to be regulated by the gov't. Military, police, fire prevention, water, power, stock market, and yes, its citizens' health. A healthy state is a working state. A working state is a productive state.

gromitcu I haven't yet seen a boat full of people going the opposite direction. Wonder why...

Cause we're rich and we travel in planes? http://www.usacubatravel.com/


Cuba won't stamp your passport, either. Awesome, huh?

j0ndas: Socialism turns people into sheep waiting for handouts, resulting in a death spiral of dependence on the gov't.

Yeah. Because that's totally what's happened in Japan, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain, Denmark, England, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland.

\idiot

The travel embargo to Cuba is just a gimmick to appease the Cuban immigrants in Florida and get their votes. For that matter I fail to understand why these immigrants want the embargo in the first place.

// a convert has to hate his origin deep enough to justify his new belief

// wtf....why all this should mean I can't use the great dollar conversion rate in Cuba and party like mad there ;)

I get it, America is worst most horrible country in the world. It's capitalistic, materialistic, and it favors those people who have dreams and are willing to work to achieve them. Health care cost too much, Wal-Mart doesn't pay enough.

Despite Michael Moore's 3rd grade level documentary skills, he is clearly an utmost authority on economics, gun control & safety, counter-terrorism tactics and intelligence gathering, and now National Health Care.

Global warming is going to kill me, trans Fats are going to kill me, eggs yolks are going to kill me, wait no it's actually the egg whites, sorry again it was actually the yolk. Avian Flu and SARS will combine to form the perfect storm of a Head cold. Y2K almost stole all my money and sent me into the dark ages without power electricity and worst all my computer.

Exxon is unlike another company in the history of the world because they actually want profits. Those Dividend providing, car fueling supplying....bastards. How dare you heat my home fuels my car and generate electricity, while proving employment for 200,000 people around the globe.

I'd rather own horse...and work by candle light....



/Michael Moore is to Films what Michael Jackson is to babysitters.

mrtoadswildride

Here I made your long rabble a lot more compact for you:

"I refuse to open my mind"

Can someone explain to a non-american what's so wrong with Cuba, when China is such a massive trading partner with the US?

I honestly don't get it.

approves

Ever try to immigrate OUT of the US

anybody else see the humor in this statement/question?

gooseDoodle

Here I"ll respond.

You're an idiot. Michael Moore makes propaganda; he edits his films to be consistent with his own personal beliefs. On top of that he's not even a very good director. Both "Roger an Me" and "Bowling For Columbine" sucked pretty bad.

Link to Wiki's definition of Propaganda

Link to Wiki's definition of Documentary

"Fat" occurs in over 27 posts.

Brilliant people.

Cerebral Ballsy: Cause we're rich and we travel in planes? http://www.usacubatravel.com/

Cuba won't stamp your passport, either. Awesome, huh?

Wow, what a completely idiotic non-sequitur. You're comparing the transportation method of rich tourists with down-and-out immigrants.

I'm pretty sure the people I'm picking up in homemade boats aren't tourists looking to take a fwe pictures in Miami and then go back.

I'm pretty sure the people flying via the linked wedbsite are able to afford health insurance and aren't going to get treatment.

My point is, if the American poor are being treated so badly by our health care system, why aren't they in makeshift rafts going south to get care?

Remember people, the real issue here is not that the country we live in has poor or no health care for millions of its citizens, it's that MICHAEL MOORE IS FAT

So um, Democrats.....what's this big promise of Universal Healthcare going to be like? I'm excited to know, whats my copay going to be? Whats my Lifetime Maximum? I already have a doctor, is he covered under this universal healthcare plan? Do I have to pay him less? How much will my tax dollars go up? Will I have the option to "exempt" myself if I choose that my employer paid benefits are better than the medical plan the government provides?
Can I decide who my doctor will be or does michael moore have to fly me over to him to meet me?

How come whenever a democrat or any non-righty does something, there's a chorus of childish personal attacks from the right? Fag, fatty, blowjobitor. Even when there plenty of examples of potbellied, adulterous, little boy-touching righties out there?

On a more relevant note, on the main tourist strip in Montego Bay, there's a cute little shop selling Havana tours to Americans. They had a nice, steady business.

Cuba.. under communist .. duh.. hope he gets the whole $10,000 fine and the whole 10 years. If you don't like it, go to Cuba or Hugoland. See how much fun you have under them. Or better yet, go to Iran and put a towel on your head. America is the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave for a reason. You get to biatch because this county's best of the best died for your right to do just that.

We can't just choose which laws we want to follow and which laws we don't. If we could, I would kill everybody who looked at me cock-eyed.

"Can someone explain to a non-american what's so wrong with Cuba, when China is such a massive trading partner with the US?"

Not one answer yet...

the USA is a less free country than Cuba, that is why travel there is banninated, because Americans are afraid of freedom

punistation: Not one answer yet...

This is easy:

Cuba is closer. That's it.

Really, that's it. It is an enemy nation with no loyalty to anyone that sits within 200 miles of an American border. It is small enough that economic sanctions don't work, and large enough to act as a proxy for any country with money and resources who wish to use it as a staging point for homeland attack. Their loyalty is to whomever can pay them.

I suggest you look these things up:

1) Cuban Missle Crisis
2) Battle of Iwo Jima.
3) Cambodian Invasion.
4) Poland.

And looking in your own backyard, what happens if Indonesia captures a "near" island and uses it as a staging ground?

There's your answer, and it's a very, very good one: Simple geography. Weapons are cheaper the lesser distance they have to travel, and if you have the benefit of actual land you can stockpile more of them.

Last time I checked China was quite a bit farther away than Cuba.

Forgot to mention: note the geography.

Don't be willingly stupid.