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1613 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2001 at 8:31 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Rei
2001-07-16 08:43:46 PM  
Radeon:
Well, here's the most recent censorship bill considered considered by congress - actually, an amendment, the McCain-Santorum-Istook-Pickering amendment (those are 4 republicans, McCain being a very prominant one). Against the recommendations of the committee congress set up to research censorware products, they got it attached to an important budget bill the democrats had been working on, so that they couldn't afford to vote against it and Clinton would have to sign it. Before that, there was COPA (the Child Online Protection Act)... sigh, I've been searching for over half an hour and I can't dig up the voting record. But, it was vastly republican. Same with its predicessor... and all similar legislation in congress, really.... but, I'm too tired too look up any more, I spent way too long on that, I need a break :P

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-16 08:46:06 PM  
Sorry I'm joining this late, but I had to actually do work today. IQ is a relative term and is measured by several different standardized tests. There are many theories of intelligence. When someone spouts that their IQ is such and such, I can't help but wonder why this person is stating that. Are they insecure with their intelligence? Do they have to negate the other for themselves to feel good. I like many others have become disenfranchised with both the Democratic and Republican parties, both cater to monied interests, both focus on polls rather than values or philosophies. I vote for the candidate most closely aligned with my beliefs. I find it sad that many people believe that the 'other' party is evil and 'their' party can do no wrong. This appears to be rather shallow thinking to me.

REI: great point about a difference between respect and becoming. I'll remember that one for later.
 
2001-07-16 08:46:52 PM  
"I live in Florida"

The Elderly are so cute when they get angry, I bet you pooped your Depends on that one.
 
2001-07-16 08:48:10 PM  
Go work on your Adonis Tan Radeon
 
2001-07-16 08:49:58 PM  
Pbsaurus: You just missed Redeons blithering rant about how smart his kids are.
 
2001-07-16 08:50:15 PM  
Rei:
Another good point. Too many people listen to TV pundits and neglect to read the actual legislation and voting records. The 'Democrats' and 'Republicans' have constituencies which are easily manipulated by propoganda, reminiscent of the Nazi rise to power.

My recommendation: Do your research, read from a large variety of sources, and think for yourself.
 
2001-07-16 08:55:15 PM  
Rei:
A: McCain is *not a prominent one* (being a Republican)
B: I am not completely sure what the bill is (but I will study it, but not tonight. See D:)
C: If you are here tomorrow (Rei) I am sure we can complain to one another about what is written in the bill. But more important..Are you ready!
D: (The Best!) My little girl Megan, just said Dada (I am not kidding!)I think I have another priority for the rest of the night. Bye.
 
Rei
2001-07-16 08:56:52 PM  
Woo, Pbsaurus :)
Thank you for saying what I've always tried to tell people... do your research :) Look at voting records, not speeches :)

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-16 08:58:33 PM  
Kizer: I was addressing the rant on how allegedly 'smart' his kids are. My point is that IQ tests, like all standardized tests are flawed (racial bias, socioeconomic bias, etc.). Furthermore there are several 'IQ' tests. The numbers are meaningless without knowledge of how they were measured. And regardless of which test it was, intelligence is a continuous process and not necessarily the most important human characteristic. Just look at our society, what is rewarded? Do we reward rocket scientists the same way we reward people in the entertainment industry? Do we reward professors the same way we reward CEOs who are the products of nepotism (sorry if that hits too close to home 'Dubya')? Don't believe everything you hear, read, or see. Evaluate everything critically and thoroughly before regurgitating the marketing/propoganda fed to you by the television news. That is all.
 
2001-07-16 09:03:37 PM  
Kizer: Before I go spend time with my daugter, I must ask, that you please learn a sense of humor. If you cannot....well I guess you cannot. I have been baiting you all night. I guess I win!

Peace to all, and all a goodnight.
HedCheez.
 
2001-07-16 09:26:21 PM  
Sorry, Rei, I didn't realize you defined liberty as "The right to cruise porn."

You got me.

Meanwhile I'll stick to frivolous issues like the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th Amendments (not to diminish the others), the abuse of executive, legislative, and judicial power, and most especially, taxes.

benjamin
 
2001-07-16 09:33:01 PM  
Pbsaurus: I think I.Q test really don't mean I thing. There seems to be alot of different kind of intelligence that people cannot measure in tests.
 
2001-07-16 09:35:57 PM  
Radeon: "I have been baiting you all night. I guess I win! "

Ohhhh ya got me you slick guy you.... does this make you a master-bater now?
 
2001-07-16 09:38:14 PM  
No offense, but anyone who thinks CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNBC and PBS are "left wing," then they have the facts wrong. They are so MODERATELY left it's almost sickening... I'm not right-wing or left-wing, and I personally think that big news conglomerates are "Center," if anything. They may seem to favor "Democrats," but Democrats and Republicans are so alike it's hard to even tell the difference anymore.
 
2001-07-16 09:43:41 PM  
Kizer: Your humor is more biting than your sense of hair style here Grow the fark up.
 
2001-07-16 09:44:22 PM  
Kizers haistile can be founde here
http://www.fark.com/cgi/fark/users.pl?login=Kizer_Sozie
 
2001-07-16 09:55:49 PM  
Or should I say " Kizers hair style can be found here
http://www.fark.com/cgi/fark/users.pl?login=Kizer_Sozie

The little biatch.

Kizer, you are neither funny nor intelligent. You my friend are a sad, YOUNG man. If your want to cross swords with me then go to irc.linux.org / channel #hedcheez....I am sure you know how to use MIRC. I invite all FARKERS to come along to witness a battle of wits. Although, only one has wits.
 
2001-07-16 10:03:48 PM  
Pussing out are we Kizer? I am waiting.
 
2001-07-16 10:14:45 PM  
from Kizer:
"Pbsaurus: I think I.Q test really don't mean I thing. There seems to be alot of different kind of intelligence that people cannot measure in tests."

"dont really mean I thing"?

Of course not, you idiot covered in sheep shiat.

"There seems to be alot of different kind of intelligence that people cannot measure in tests"

I am sold. Not one would could EVER peg you down.

You have 10 minutes. You sheepshiat eating peice of dung. Brink it on.
 
2001-07-16 10:18:34 PM  
I tire of waiting on you. I will search for you on Fark untill you either change your username or go completely away. I HATE little punks like yourself. I will see you later.
 
2001-07-16 10:22:48 PM  
Rei: How was that ;)
Scared his little 15 year old ass away.
Oh, I feel so bad about scaring him.
BTW, never saw him on IRC. Dont know if he was to supid or to scared to face me.

Kevin Metnick.
 
2001-07-16 10:30:58 PM  
BTW, my wife came back. I got drunk. And other than my daugther saying Dada, and listening to Elvis sing unchained melody, I have no idea what the hell happened.

Hehehe. Is that a pink elephant? No, that is that little punk Kizer_Sozie.
 
2001-07-16 10:42:46 PM  
I think that even though people have made good points in this thread, some seem to miss a few crucial point.

First, let's say the overwhelming majority of the media IS liberal (just for argument's sake). Fine. What are you going to do about it? Either you can ignore it, complain and biatch about it, or try and change it. Why do conservatives who make this claim always seem to do the first two? I don't understand. It's not pointless to try, you can make a difference. Just look back in the 1960's, when there were civil rights problems. Some people biatched and complained. But other people worked to change it, and were successful to some extent. So the lesson is, if you see something you think needs to be change, then try and change it. Even if you fail, at least you can claim more respect than those who just whine.

Also, the same conservatives who whine about how liberal the media is are many of the very same who argue against any program intended to make life more fair for those who need it. Wait a second here. I thought it was the liberals' job to whine about life not being fair. Why are you folks doing it too?

My second point is about the claims that liberal colleges spawn liberal media. I sincerely hope that you don't believe that peoples political ideas are formed merely from what their college professors tell them. Does hanging around christians turn someone into a christians? Does hanging around feminists turn someone into a feminist? I would hope that you didn't look at people in this way.

People form their own ideas. While college professors and college peers may open up new avenues of thought for them, the professors and peers can't change someone's ideas, only that indivual can change their own ideas. Anyone who gullible and changed merely by a professors words deserves to be that way. And if you claim that the liberal professors are conservative students change, then obviously they weren't that conservative to start with.
 
Rei
2001-07-16 10:43:43 PM  
Radeon:
calm down, I'm sure none of them meant anything... *hug*

Benjamin:
Censorware is not about porn. It is *so* not about porn. First off, censorware products have an 80% failure rate on average. That means for every 1 site they block justly, about 4 are blocked injustly. What do I mean by injustly? Um, well, let's see, the Vatican was the site of the day at peacefire.org :) About 5% of people running for federal election last election had their sites blocked by censorware. Beaver University changed its name after prospective students were unable to access their sites. Censorware products tend to censor their competitors under every category, along with sites critical of them. They have encrypted blacklists so you can't see what all they filter out. What else do they filter out? Apparently not the GOP site, but the DNC site, for one filter. Thousands and thousands of pages of medical information. The US constitution, for some. Toy stores. Harmless personal home pages. The American Association of Univerity Women. The Heritage Foundation (a conservative thinktank whose mission is to "formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense"). The quakers. Eating disorder websites. The bible (that's commonly filtered out)...

Here, I'll stop that now, the list goes on through millions of web pages. Just rememebr the 80% number. Continuing on... here's a few articles.

----------------------------
How Peacefire was blocked

In January 1997, reporter Brock Meeks, publisher of the CyberWire Dispatch, wrote an article aboutCYBERsitter's decision to block the Peacefire web site because of our page about their program, CYBERsitter: Where Do We Not Want You To Go Today?. Brian Milburn, CEO of CYBERsitter, sent Mr. Meeks a letter in response, the entire text of which read:

Mr. Meeks,

You take yourself too seriously. You are but a trickle of piss in the river of life. You are a nobody, and we don't care about your opinion in the slightest.

Then, in June, Peacefire discovered that the CYBERsitter installation program had been re-written to scan your hard drive when you installed CYBERsitter, to see if you had ever visited the Peacefire web site (this information is stored in your browser cache for a certain period after each web site that you visit). If the installation program detected traces of "peacefire" on your computer, it would refuse to install the program and abort with a phony error message, "I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation". This was confirmed by reporters at Wired and PC World, who wrote about their discovery in separate articles
----------------------------
In July 1996, reporters Brock Meeks and Declan McCullagh published "Keys to the Kingdom", an article about the blocking policies of several filtering companies, including CYBERsitter. The article revealed that CYBERsitter maintained a policy of blocking pages which advocated equal rights for gays and lesbians, such as N.O.W..

In August 1996, CYBERsitter president Brian Milburn sent the reporters a letter claiming copyright violations and threatening FBI criminal prosecution, because the article revealed some of the words and phrases blocked by CYBERsitter.

In December 1996, CYBERsitter added Peacefire.org to their list of pornographic sites in response to this page being published.

On the same day in December, Mr. Milburn sent a letter to Peacefire's ISP threatening to block all sites hosted by our ISP if Peacefire were not removed. Mr. Milburn's letter to Peacefire, which also threatened legal action, stated, "Beginning Monday, we will be contacting customers of MEDIA3 (if any) to let them know who is responsible and why 900,000 Internet subscribers no longer will have access to their sites."

In January, The Ethical Spectacle mirrored our CYBERsitter page to protest it being blocked by CYBERsitter; CYBERsitter discovered the mirror site and added Spectacle.org to their blocked site list, as reported in the New York Times later that month.

In June 1997, reporters at Wired and PC World confirmed that CYBERsitter had re-written their installation program so that when you tried to install CYBERsitter, it would scan your browser's cache to check whether you had ever visited the Peacefire Web site -- and if you had, the software would generate a fake error message and refuse to install.

In January 1998, CYBERsitter sent a mail-bomb of about 500 junk messages to a lady in Massachusetts who wrote to them to complain about their blocking policies. Her postmaster was monitoring the incoming mail traffic at the time of the mail-bombing attack and notified network security authorities at MCI. News.com and Wired News covered the story of the mail-bombing attack.
----------------------------

Etc. The list goes on - and on and on and on.... and gets worse and worse and worse. Even if I *wasn't* against the concept of censorship, this software is appalling. They have no scruples, no accountability, and no accuracy - and now they're federally legislated. You're not even allowed to see the blacklists, let alone change them! Sites that have been brought to their attention as non-pornographic don't get changed. They censor based on political views and corporate interests. They censor on word matching, something completely silly - I've seen sites get censored because the author's last name contained a substring that was a term that was sexual slang. The whole thing is sickening.

So, no, benjamin, I'm not fighting for the right to surf for porn. I personally find porn distasteful, and wish fark would tone things down a bit with all of the "boobies" references. But, I support people's rights to see what they want. And I *extremely* support the right of people to see the *non-offensive* material they want without it being run through someone else's low-quality word filter and their corporate interests.

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-16 10:50:03 PM  
Rei:
According to Rei: "But, I support people's rights to see what they want."
Me asking: Does that mean I have the right to see yor boobies!...

Crap my wife caught me.
See you guys some time next year..."Owww, no honey that IS NOT MY TOE"...geeshh.
 
Rei
2001-07-16 10:53:22 PM  
to Radeon:
Laf ;)
Linguistic correction:
People's rights to see what they want when both parties involved in the visual transfer are willing ;) hehehehee

to Radeon's wife:
just so you know, he's been bad. ;)

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-16 11:02:52 PM  
Theseus-- Conservatives ARE doing something about it. Have you forgotten the original link here? We're tuning in to right-wing and moderate news, and tuning out liberal news sources-- and they're taking a beating on the bottom line.

Rei-- Everybody needs a cause. Good for you.


benjamin
 
2001-07-16 11:06:29 PM  
Sorry had to eat.... lets see we were have fun with Radeon

Radeon:"Or should I say " Kizers hair style can be found here "


You think thats really me????? Do you believe everything you read on the Internet? I guess you do.
 
2001-07-16 11:08:36 PM  
Radeon:I invite all FARKERS to come along to witness a battle of wits. Although, only one has wits.

Eww scary, you want me to meet you at the flag pole after school to?
 
2001-07-16 11:08:56 PM  
I'm back, what did I miss...been exercising my constitutional rights surfing for porn.

Actually I was eating dinner and now I'm going to take the dog for a walk before I watch a DVD.

See, one can cut back on addictive behaviours without going cold turkey (and yes I like the British spelling better--not a typo).

Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.
 
2001-07-16 11:11:52 PM  
Disclaimer:


And no, Kizer is not one of my other identities, he was here before me--I think. Besides I haven't even seen that movie yet, but it is in my rental queue. Good night again
 
2001-07-16 11:15:51 PM  
Rei: I beginning to think Radeon has some sort of infatuation with you. Notice how he attempts to impress you with his chest beating. I think you have an admirer;)
 
2001-07-16 11:19:02 PM  
"BTW, my wife came back. I got drunk. And other than my daugther saying Dada"

Great role model for your kid, you gonna teach her "Budwieser" next?
 
2001-07-16 11:21:59 PM  
"Hehehe. Is that a pink elephant? No, that is that little punk Kizer_Sozie."


..... owe ya your definitely a comic genius.
 
2001-07-16 11:45:39 PM  
Couple of quick points (although I've only skimmed):

I am a journalist. I am a liberal. Most, although not all, of my colleagues are liberal. The point about liberals and conservatives being drawn to certain fields is, I think, an accurate one. However, journalists are taught to recognize their own biases and to filter them out. Objectivity is an impossible goal, but we strive to get as close as possible. The media is, by and large, centrist, just as American political parties are now. Likewise, there are extremes in both the politics (Ralph Nader and Jesse "Fillibusterin' 'gainst rights for the darkies" Helms) and the media (I'd like to see Molly Ivins and Rush Limbaugh go 12 rounds in the cage of death!). Anyway, that's my two cents on the subject.

Oh, and besides knocking their site out for a while, check out how we've skewed their poll.:-)
 
2001-07-17 12:21:28 AM  
Oh, and besides knocking their site out for a while, check out how we've skewed their poll.:-)


I know I saw that, that was funny.
 
2001-07-17 12:27:36 AM  
Haven't you guys ever heard of Brassknuckles Webzine? It's right at the top of the page.
 
2001-07-17 01:12:06 AM  
Theseus: "Does hanging around christians turn someone into a christians? Does hanging around feminists turn someone into a feminist?"

Well, yes. Politics and religion aren't genetically preprogrammed. Your ideas about the world are, by and large, a product of the ideas you come in contact with during your life. Every once in a while, someone comes up with an idea that's completely original (e.g. Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, etc.), but that happens a lot less often than you'd think.

Politics is mostly a matter of socioeconomic class. Rich people are usually conservative, because conservative politics help keep them rich. Poor people are usually liberal, because liberal politics help them to no longer be poor. But no one learns these things for themselves, they pick up the ideas from the people around them, who are in the same class that they are.

Disclaimer: The preceding has been a generalization, and should in no way be applied to specific instances.

Thank you for your time.
 
2001-07-17 03:25:32 AM  
So now I'm confused, we have REI saying that the uneducated poor people tend to be conservatives, then MJ stating that uneducated poor people tend to be liberals. hmmm?
On another note, responding to REI's the majotiry of educated people, i.e professors and such are liberals. Did we not forget about private colleges? Plenty of very educated people with conservative views. Shouldn't we also remember that the most intellectual colleges out there such as Harvard were founded by christians, that they were originally Christian schools?

cue personal attacks...
 
2001-07-17 03:48:50 AM  
Arjibuh: Actually uneducated poor people tend to be politically unaffiliated (because they don't know anything about politics), or, if anything, conservative (because, being uneducated, they fear change). However, in this country (America), we have universal education, so many poor people are educated, and they are the ones who become liberals.

As always, the above is a generalization, and should in no way be construed to apply to, or be representative of, specific persons, situations, or instances. Yadda, yadda, yadda.
 
2001-07-17 04:51:55 AM  
Yes and lets hope that uneducated people obstain from the voting booth. I think its funny that your saying autimatically if your conservative, your uneducated. More education does not equal more liberal. Once again, a private university, also Harvard and freinds. Money does not dictate your political views, education does some but not enough to curve a persons preconcieved bias stemming from religious beliefs. It is an individuals stance on religion (morals and so on) that forms your political views, not education*, not your paycheck(or lack of). The view of conservatives here seems to be that they're a bunch of toothless, in-bread, flunkees.

*being educated is very important, and does effect the way a person votes to an extent, but not to the piont of changing parties. The only impact education is going to have on your voting choice is if you have some political science/history classes mixed in there. Hopefully some that are not bias either way. Otherwise, finishing highschool, ( and you cant tell me there is not a liberal bias in public schools) or getting your bio degree at the local state uni, is not going to give you a well rounded view of politics. But it reverts back to ones religious standards, Dont like religion/Christianity=liberal.

As far as conservatives usually being a step down on the monetary scale, its a vast left wing conspiracy, aimed to irradicate the 'rights', headed by the aliens.

Or, conservatives just perfer to live in rural areas. Away from all the hubub and 'influences' of the cities. This costs less. Money USUALLY brings destruction. (this is not to say that conserves withdrawl from earning money, but that its hard to stay conservative, when you could do all of the, well you know)
 
Rei
2001-07-17 10:56:50 AM  
More education does not equal more liberal.

On an individual basis? Sure. On the whole? No.



(sorry I couldn't find a map which shows metro area HS graduation rates... however, as this link pointed out, metro areas tend to be notably more educated than rural areas).

-= rei =-
 
2001-07-17 12:13:28 PM  
Arjibuh: "I think its funny that your saying autimatically if your conservative, your uneducated. More education does not equal more liberal."

No, I did NOT say that. Please don't twist my words. First of all, whatever I said was a GENERALIZATION which means that that is what tends to happen, not what happens "automatically." Second, I did not say that conservative = uneducated. As I said, it's more a matter of socioeconomic class than eduation although the uneducated poor tend to become conservative if anything. Rich people can be very well-educated, but if they are, they are also probably weathy, because class creates politics, politics doesn't, as you seem to think I said, create education.
 
2001-07-17 12:17:50 PM  
Rich people can be very well-educated, but if they are, they are also probably weathy, [...]

I can second that, for sure. <grin>
 
2001-07-17 12:53:01 PM  
Rei: Nice maps. So, apparently, the states that voted for Bush in the last election have high school completion rates that are either abnormally low (southern states) or abnormally high (mountain states). The states that voted for Gore have a lot of metro areas.* Interesting. Apart from your assumption that metro areas are more educated than rural ones, I see no correlation between education and politics. Which is what I've been saying.

*I won't comment on Florida.
 
2001-07-17 01:35:33 PM  
Oops.... I meant "conservative people can be very well-educated," etc. Me feel stupid.
 
2001-07-17 02:20:14 PM  
Then I would say for the most part MJ that I agree with you that education does not directly affect political views. At the tail end of completing my political science sequnce,( yes I dun grajidated hi schooo) the majority of my classmates opinions had altered. Although I am vary conservative, I now hold alot of Libertarian veiwpionts (freedoms, taxes, minimal government involvemeant ect.). But on key issues I am still very conservative, and will most likely vote conservative the majority of the time. This is a direct cause of my views as a Christian, being educated had influence in my views, but like you said, it doesnt do much to change my foundation. (that is not a quote) I guess we could all agree that there alot of factors influencing political views. I myself still think religion (or lack of) plays the biggest part. Boy I feel like a group hug. Who wants a hug..................................hug?
 
2001-07-17 02:34:30 PM  
MysticJackal - Actually, I wasn't even concentrating enough to cotton on to what you meant.

As for the maps <butting in sideways> - inconclusive? Well - just a hint: Rei's "this link" does explicitly mention metro areas.
 
2001-07-17 02:43:58 PM  
Arjibuh: *hug* :)

Well, I guess we have something in common. I too have many Libertarian views, but on some issues my stance is very liberal, and I'll usually vote liberal. Perhaps that comes from my views as a Jewish person. Hmm... There's supposed to be a separation of church and state, but religion and politics always seem to come together somehow. On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing. I've got to think about this....
 
Rei
2001-07-17 02:45:18 PM  
MysticJackal:
As Labberdasher mentioned, the link goes into metro areas, explaining that they have notably higher rates of education.

Bush all of the high-dropout rates in the country except for the very southern tip of California. On the other hand, if you'll remember, Gore took mostly metro areas - the areas in white. All of his takings were either average or better. Bush, on the other hand, only had a low percentage of his states above average - only the hole in the rockies was even above average, let alone the best (metro).

-= rei =-
 
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