What is the world coming to when you can't discriminate against trannys?

I know this probably makes me some sort of hillbilly, but I cannot stand transgenderism. If I dressed up like a Viking every day, I wouldn't *actually* be a Viking. Or the guy who modified himself to look like a lizard... guess what - you're still a human.

BenitoLupito: you're still a human.

Not that I disagree, but people use the rationale: If it walks like a duck.. For IDing homos.

Bravo, subby!

I loL'd

BenitoLupito

That is exactly the kind of thinking that is keeping the Confurvatives down.

To clarify - I'm no homophobe. I couldn't care less what anybody's sexual preference is. But that Arquette she-male? RuPaul? Sorry gentlemen, you still have penises. And if you choose to Bobbitize yourself because you are a woman trapped in a man's body, then you need psychological help.

I feel a heat wave coming.

To clarify - I'm no homophobe. I couldn't care less what anybody's sexual preference is.

I'm not racist, I mean I've got a lot of black friends. But seriously why do black people suck so much?

BenitoLupito: I know this probably makes me some sort of hillbilly, but I cannot stand transgenderism. If I dressed up like a Viking every day, I wouldn't *actually* be a Viking. Or the guy who modified himself to look like a lizard... guess what - you're still a human.

Most people that feel the need to be transgender typically describe the need to become their mental gender, not their physical one. Dressing up in costume like Halloween does not qualify. Neither does the body modifications to look cool like the lizard guy.

Sweet. Now we just need to get actual discrimination laws put in federally for sexuality.

Note that I don't like the discrimination laws, I wish we didn't need them, but as long as you have some of them (race, gender, etc), you have to have all of them IMO.

Sorry, I think I *am* inadvertantly trolling. I'm just venting. Vow of tranny silence begins now.

OHIO Firemen celebrate decision.

Jersey will not be a just society until they can discriminate against these residents.

BenitoLupito

I took you as just being open, questioning and sincere. Not really much of a troll.

Throw on a wig, some stockings and a little makeup though...

BenitoLupito

Whether you're a hillbilly, a homophobe, or a Viking, who is to say?

There is pretty strong evidence that gender dysphoria is caused by physiological factors, no psychological. If you flatly deny that without bothering to research a little, that only makes you ignorant.

FWIW, I don't like the term 'transgendered', either. Crossdressers and transsexuals share only surface traits--the causes of both, to the best of my understanding, are totally different.

Meh. I can think of a million reasons not to hire or rent to a transgender other than the fact that they're a transgender.

/learned from the gays
//discriminated against for not being gay every time
///no longer tolerant

Goodness gracious, that's a nice headline.

I suppose saying that this can turn into a flame war would have many different meanings?

/Couldn't resist.

BenitoLupito - And if you choose to Bobbitize yourself because you are a woman trapped in a man's body, then you need psychological help.

And they usually get it well before they get the surgery...

Doctors typically won't perform the surgery without the patient undergoing quite a lot of psychological screening and counseling and a lot of 'make sure you really want it' time...

Personally, I just can't get past transgenderism. Not that I wish harm on them or anything, but I don't think it's unreasonable to want your male employee to be dressed like a male.

As far as discrimination laws go, I think they should only apply in circumstances that can't be changed. You can't change your skin color, nor can you change your gender (easily). If you're a tranny, though, you can just through on a different outfit, and then no one will be the wiser.

You can feel however you want about trans-gendered people. You can think it's weird, sick, odd, wrong...whatev. The point isn't whether you're wrong about that or not. You have the right to feel however you want. The point is you're denying someone employment or housing based upon something that has no real bearing upon whether they can do the job or will be a good tenant.

That being said...there are other gray areas to this that are difficult to address. At the office I work at, a trans-gendered person being hired would cause a bit of a stir amongst the employees. An HR person at my company might choose to skip over their resume to avoid friction and disruption in the workplace. So which is right?

The trans-gendered person: "You didn't hire me specifically because I'm trans-gendered. That's discrimination! I can do the job!"

My HR person: "Yes...but there were 15 other resumes of persons just as qualified as you. Given our employees, we felt another candidate would make a better fit over-all. We have work to do here, and want to avoid creating a situation that would cause disturbance and impede productivity. We reserve the right to hire who we choose."

In a way, both have valid points.

Freudazoid

Just because they wouldn't sleep with you doesn't mean you were discriminated against.

Kid_icarus

Except that one way offers people freedom of gender identity AND the ability to put food on their plates, and the other, um... sorry, I find it hard to cry for the poor businessmen having their profits ever-so-slightly drop and employees who have to handle *gasp* people who might be different than them!

And what about landlords discriminating? How can you justify something like that?

Reasons not to hire a tranny:

- Employees won't want to work with them.
- Customer's wont want to deal with them.
- Vendors won't want to deal with them.
- They're a legal liability.
- Men don't want them in the men's room.
- Ladies don't want them in the ladies room.
- If you discipline them, they'll sue, claiming discrimination.
- If you fire them, they'll sue, claiming discrimination.
- If other employees don't like them, they'll sue, claiming discrimination.
- They all have major psychological problems, as evidenced by the removal of their manhood.

howdoibegin
Just because they wouldn't sleep with you doesn't mean you were discriminated against.

Typical gay twist, but I can assure you that it was the other way around -- especially the time I got fired from my construction job because I didn't want to make gay porn.

/still made me laugh, though

birdboy2000

Your contempt of business owners should disqualify you from being considered a credible commentator. If something injures a business, it could be more than an 'ever-so-slight' drop in profits--it might mean the end of the business entirely. Furthermore, your attitude indicates a willingness to allow the state to enforce authoritarian policies.

Business owners should be free to discriminate on ANY basis. If one business doesn't want to hire one of the scores of brilliant transsexual computer engineers, chip designers, doctors, lawyers, marketing whizzes, graphic designers, etc... then I'm sure there are plenty of others who can recognize the value of a 'transgendered' employee.

/transsexual libertarian

My HR person: "Yes...but there were 15 other resumes of persons just as qualified as you. Given our employees, we felt another candidate would make a better fit over-all. We have work to do here, and want to avoid creating a situation that would cause disturbance and impede productivity. We reserve the right to hire who we choose."

In a way, both have valid points.

Yeah. I guess that's why they pass these sorts of laws, because the same line of reasoning can just as easily be applied to candidates who are gay, black, female, fat, short, ugly, ginger-haired, boring, etc.

mindspider

As far as discrimination laws go, I think they should only apply in circumstances that can't be changed.

Many people who consider themselves to be transgendered will say that they can't be changed. They are mentally gender A, but physically gender B.

It's only by allowing these people to be themselves that they will gain acceptance. By forcing them to be one sex during the day, and another sex at night, we're taking away any chance they have of living a relatively normal life.

FWIW, I've met a few transfendered men-women (used to be men, now women) and other than being a bit tall, he/she probably could have fooled 99% of people.

I wear my wife's panties, but it is strictly for comfort.

/misquoted
//wouldn't hire a tranny for reasons stated above by others
///don't actually wear my wife's panties

glwtta
Yeah. I guess that's why they pass these sorts of laws, because the same line of reasoning can just as easily be applied to candidates who are gay, black, female, fat, short, ugly, ginger-haired, boring, etc.

murderers, etc.

/not that there's anything wrong with that

Transgenders almost always have serious psychological problems. Even the gays and lesbians admit this sometimes. You really have to hate yourself to go through with an operation to change your sex, and it's asinine to force employers and landlords to accept people who are a danger to themselves and others - if not now, then certainly a few months down the line. Transgenders are a major safety risk.

Bottom line, being gay, lesbian, prostitute, or transgender is just as much a choice as being a murderer or child molester. Discriminating based on skin color is asinine; discriminating based on someone's personal choices is not. I don't care if you were supposedly "born gay" or not, there are plenty of heteros who manage to control themselves, and being gay doesn't mean you have to sleep with everyone in sight, or mutilate your body.

Transgenders should be locked up in psych wards, never mind not discriminated against.

I have to accept the lifestyle of someone who thinks it is perfectly reasonable to chop their dick of and wear makeup to work?

Interesting.

It is clear from the responses in the this thread how much anti-transgender hate is ingrained into society. With the stigma attached to bigotry, people are still being bigoted while saying that they aren't. Examples:

mindspider: "Personally, I just can't get past transgenderism. Not that I wish harm on them or anything, but..."

BenitoLupito: "...but I cannot stand transgenderism...To clarify - I'm no homophobe..."

"...I ain't racist, some of my best friends were nigg#rs. And I've only lynched one of them, and that was because he said 'hey baby' to a white woman. But I ain't no stinkin' racist."

Why can't you accept that people are different from you? I don't see how someone whose mind is a different gender than that person's body can affect you in any way at all or can be considered less of a person. Transgendered people have a one in twelve chance of being murdered. That is ridiculous compared to the average.

If you do not accept transgendered people for who they are, you are no better than those who do not accept gay people, black people, interracial couples, those of different faiths, etc. And if you wouldn't hire a transgendered, you are part of the problem, it validates the bigotry and prejudice. The reality is that transgender people are no different than you or I. You probably couldn't point one out of a lineup.

Optimus Prime wants to know when his fellow "trans"formers will get their own living spaces. Megatron planning a march on Washington

llamalord

Sexual orientation is very, VERY different from people with psychotic identity issues who self-mutilate.

mike_the_engineer: - They all have major psychological problems, as evidenced by the removal of their manhood.

you do realize there are female to male trannies right?

- Ladies don't want them in the ladies room.

most women are far more laid back about such things than men

- Customer's wont want to deal with them.

you pressuppose a customer would, care and more to the point be able to tell

- Employees won't want to work with them.

it's work, not a third grade group project.

- Vendors won't want to deal with them.

in this case, perhaps you may not want to deal with the vendor either, though unless everyone at the place deals with vendors, highly unlikely, this is a total red herring.

j0ndas: landlords to accept people who are a danger to themselves and others

you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?

Sammy Jenkins: I have to accept the lifestyle of someone who thinks it is perfectly reasonable to chop their dick of and wear makeup to work?

ditto what I just said

The amount of willful ignorance is not shocking, but it is disappointing. I hope that farkers like j0ndas can take the time to learn a little bit about the contributions transsexuals have made to society before spouting off crazy talk.

Well, this article about transsexualism isn't an awful place to start.

You can read another great article about contributions of transsexual women, including inventors, business women, musicians, artists, and actresses.

Sammy Jenkins: psychotic identity issues who self-mutilate.

I can think of some psychologists who would could provide a few hours long lecture on how wrong that. And by some, I mean every single one who isn't a quack.

llamalord
If you do not accept transgendered people for who they are, you are no better than those who do not accept gay people, black people, interracial couples, those of different faiths, etc. And if you wouldn't hire a transgendered, you are part of the problem, it validates the bigotry and prejudice. The reality is that transgender people are no different than you or I. You probably couldn't point one out of a lineup.

That's gold.

I'm a murderer and you should accept me for who I am. I was born this way. I'm no different than you, and if you discriminate against me, you're a prejudiced bigot with a neurosis. Besides, you probably wouldn't be able to pick me out of a lineup. Suck it, because me and my murdering buddies are gonna have a parade and make pro-murder movies for your kids to watch.

WhyteRaven74
I can think of some psychologists who would could provide a few hours long lecture on how wrong that. And by some, I mean every single one who isn't a quack.

Read the DSM, you ignorant coont.

Freudazoid 2007-06-17 05:46:36 PM
I'm a murderer and you should accept me for who I am. I was born this way. I'm no different than you, and if you discriminate against me, you're a prejudiced bigot with a neurosis. Besides, you probably wouldn't be able to pick me out of a lineup. Suck it, because me and my murdering buddies are gonna have a parade and make pro-murder movies for your kids to watch.

The classic false comparison. Being transgendered doesn't hurt anybody else.

Homophobia. It's the American way!

Wow. I can't believe what I'm reading here. But then this is Fark, so I guess I should be used to it.

True transgendered people have a difference in their mental gender and their physical one. They go through plenty of psychological assesments to figure out that's the real problem, not that they "hate themselves", or because daddy was a bit too forthcoming late at nights, or because of aliens or Bush or whatever. They have a right to be themselves, and if that means corrective surgery, then so be it. If that means just identifying as the opposite sex, then so be it. Denying them that, and denying them any chance of happiness because of something that's not in their control is disgusting.

mike_the_engineer - that same list could have been applied to black folks in the first half of last century (and indeed today, by some folks still out there), or gay folks 20 years ago. Just because some folks are so ignorant and prejudiced doesn't negate a person's situation - it highlights a common prejudice, not a problem with the person being prejudiced. And keeping these folks out of the workplace/residential building/front-of-the-bus/whatever just reinforces this prejudice. I guess black folks should have kept being shunned because it upset non-black folks. Gays, too. By your logic, anything that isn't the majority should be discriminated against and shunned.

I can't believe I had to explain that. Wow. farked up.

BenitoLupito: "...but I cannot stand transgenderism...To clarify - I'm no homophobe..."

"...I ain't racist, some of my best friends were nigg#rs. And I've only lynched one of them, and that was because he said 'hey baby' to a white woman. But I ain't no stinkin' racist."

Why can't you accept that people are different from you? I don't see how someone whose mind is a different gender than that person's body can affect you in any way at all or can be considered less of a person.

OK - so I'm breaking the tranny-silence vow. Sorry.

#1) Since when is homosexuality the same as transgenderism? I have no problem with homosexuals. I *do* have an issue with transgenders. So your analogy would be more accurate if you had said, "I ain't racist, some of my best friends are black, but I can't stand women". Apples & oranges. Nice try.

#2) Just because I don't like a group doesn't even remotely equate to my (or anyone's) inability to accept human difference. It shows a preference or an opinion. That is all. Put away your straw man. I can't stand people who cut me off in traffic either. Or Yankees fans. Yet I can accept that they exist, and it does NOT mean that I think these groups are sub-human. OK, well, except for Yankees fans. They're horrible.

EvilClone
Homophobia. It's the American way!

Please don't equate these people with homosexuals.

Having one sexual orientation or another is very different from making your fetish your lifestyle and forcing everyone around you to pretend that you are something you are not.

Homophobia.

Just want to say I get along fine with

everyone I work with

go to school with

the girlfriend I live with

and most of my family.

/trans female-to-male
//pre-transition i was suicidally depressed about my gender identity, eventually i sought treatment, and now that i've been through therapy and begun hormones i am happier and healthier than ever
///you should lighten up about us

Sammy Jenkins, I'm willing to bet, is gay.

Some crossdressers do what they do as a sexual fetish. Transsexualism is not a sexual fetish. It is a type of birth defect. Unfortunately, the word "transgendered" is a political umbrella meant to capture both groups when they don't share significant commonalities.

Sammy, I urge you to confront your ignorance and to try to learn something about transsexuals. I guarantee you that your mental model of what we are is not correct. It's up to you to address that, or not.