The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.

Churchill2004: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.

I don't see what the 10th Amendment has to do with this.

Prime-8: I don't see what the 10th Amendment has to do with this.

Well, it didn't really seem practical to post the rest of the Constitution, where you'll find no grant of power to the federal governmetn concerning education.

If this means more 18 and 18 year old women stripping their way through college I approve.

MyNameIsMofuga: 18 and 18 year old

18 and 19 year old. DOH!

Ack! My inner grammar nazi just asploded

I read somewhere that ten year old kids today are more mature and educated than the average American soldier during WW2. "More of them are doing gooder now."

"I don't see what the 10th Amendment has to do with this."

It doesn't HAVE anthing to do with it. It's one of the things crazy people spout about the evil democratically elected government of America. "WAH WAAH The federal government sets certain minimum standards everyone in America should have to meet or else the feds won't give them money! WAAH WAAH!"

I mean, just because a State can say "go to hell, we don't need federal dollars for our schools" then the feds are EEEEEBIL!

Churchill2004 2007-06-06 03:40:11 AM

Well, it didn't really seem practical to post the rest of the Constitution, where you'll find no grant of power to the federal governmetn concerning education.

Nor will you find abortion in the Constitution, but the USSC decided that it was covered under the "emanations of the Penumbra" or some such bullshiat. All three branches of Uncle Sugar take from us every day.

Spinstopper

13 states had enough data to actually make a call on whether there was any effect.
9 of them show that they were already improving their literacy rate but since the law they are improving it more.
The other four have shown a slowdown in the rate of improvement - ie they are still making improvements to the literacy rate but they were making more/better improvements afterwards.

Crayons taste like purple!

Detected....d-d-no goin...and you tell me do things, I done runnin...

Churchill2004: Well, it didn't really seem practical to post the rest of the Constitution, where you'll find no grant of power to the federal governmetn concerning education.

Right, nor does it explicitly have the power to check beef for quality or medications for safety, but I don't see you complaining bout that.

shotglasss: Nor will you find abortion in the Constitution, but the USSC decided that it was covered under the "emanations of the Penumbra" or some such bullshiat. All three branches of Uncle Sugar take from us every day.

Well, here's the deal: Think you can do it so much better? Run for office. Start small and work your way up. Or move to china. I'm sure their constitution is much more clear on what the government can and can't do. I mean, shiat, I have as many, if not more, gripes with the gvmt as anyone, but you libertarians take it to a whole new level. Let me put it like this: We tried your way and it failed miserably. Move on.

tHEY ARE TRUELY AND IMBOCILE

Can they go play hoop?

Churchill2004

You're not, it's not explicitly there. But seriously, you lost that battle, ummm... 74 years or so ago with the creation of the Tennessee Valley Authority and everything after.

The real answer (not the "this is how I want the Constitution to read", but the answer to the question "how was it read?") is that it came from the Commerce Clause. That's the same justification for the FDA, civil rights legislation, interstate highways, and lots of other stuff.

Now, I know what you're thinking, "how is schooling commerce?". But you need to look at a whole ling of cases that have interpreted the Commerce Clause incredibly broadly.

You can say, "but... but... but.... what about the Tenth Amendment?", but even relatively strict constructionists (i.e., people who prefer to interpret the Constitution as written, not as evolved) admit that the Tenth Amendment doesn't do very much at this point.

So it is decided that evaluating children instead of trusting the word of the people with an interest in the status quo is a bad idea. EXCELLENT!

sunlion
I read somewhere that ten year old kids today are more mature and educated than the average American soldier during WW2. "More of them are doing gooder now."

i came here to say the same thing. those kids who are testing poorly today probably would have been totally illiterate 60 years ago.

a bit more anecdotal: i remember a dick van dyke show episode (they were all from the 60's) where the main character's son is praised by his co-worker, who says something like: "sheesh, kid's eight years old and already reading!" it wasn't sarcastic, it was just an aside.

i remember this because i was about that age when i saw the episode on nick at nite (23 now) and was thinking "WTF? that was considered early?"

The right to an abortion isn't in there for exactly the same reason that the right to walk down the street isn't in there: it isn't the government's business. It affects it none whatsoever.

But that's patently not the case. Theoretically, a state could regulate walking down the street. Many states constitutions give broad power to the legislature to exercise so called "police power" (which doesn't mean precisely what it sounds like, it's more of a "regulate stuff for health, welfare and safety"). There's no federal right to walk down a street; you do have a federal right against searches and seizures and a bunch of other rights too numerous to list, but absent a federal right (or a state right) a state very well COULD adopt such a law.

Again, when thinking about the Constitution, we have to remember what IS as opposed to what we WANT it to be.

If the national government informs a State that they'll lose funding if they don't show improvement... no matter what, the State will show improvement.

Ok guys... this is a damn Republic. Founded by the people for the people. It does what we want it to do.

While the methods of NCLB were flawed, fatally flawed, the concept of having a consistent educational experience in every corner of the United States is a good one.

IMHO it would have been better achieved not with money, but with Federally provided textbooks and course material. Cheap to produce on an industrial scale. Easy to update with a single distributor. Professionally prepared, a chimpanzee can deliver a lesson.

Mediocre teachers can simply follow the curriculum. The truely great teachers use it to take most of the biatchwork out of assembling quizzes, and use the time saved to really enrich the educational experience.

Having studied the results of several forms of standardized testing over the years, I have noticed that, in public schools, the percentage of students able to perform at an acceptable level for their grade drops off year by year. In other words, if 65% of 4th graders in a particular system are able to perform at their grade level, that number seems to fall in subsequent years so that by 12th grade only about 40% will be able to perform at their grade level. The numbers vary by year and by school district but the trend is unmistakeable and unchanging over the past 20 years. It appears that sending children to school is the surest way to start them on the road to complete ignorance and if the public school system could only keep them enrolled long enough the average student would be rendered completely illiterate. This started way before NCLB and doesn't seem to have improved any.

Blink

If the national government informs a State that they'll lose funding if they don't show improvement... no matter what, the State will show improvement.

If Corporate central withholds the budget for a struggling branch office until they show improvement, the branch office dies horribly.

I'm sorry, it was my understanding that money doesn't do a damn thing. It's the people spending it. And the only way to clean up incompetency is with pink slips. If the Republicans want to go there, go there. If they ain't, they are just playing keep away with funding, and adding counterproductive bureaucracy.

Mr. Right

Having gone to College, I can tell you that it doesn't get any better with private institutions.

/Knows a few Ph.Ds who really shouldn't be let out in public without a handler.

I thought NCLB stood for No Cat Left Behind.

"Can I has edumahcation 2 end meme?"

If this outrageous editorial cartoon is to be believed (found on the shrill and frankly terrifying Xtian site BlessedCause.com), they're also being taught how to be Muslims and Sorcerors, and being threatened not just by militant homosexuals, but also by the pet wolves of militant homosexuals.

"Cory and Trevor are really stupid and they cant get their book thinkings and learnings real good, they dont even got their Grade 10 so f*ck them."

Ok, so does this mean kids are learning more or are they just getting better at taking tests?

nrv0us

they're also being taught how to be Muslims

"AMHERST- For one night, on May 9, the quaint colonial town of Amherst, New Hampshire, was transformed into a Saudi Arabian Bedouin tent community, with the help of 80 seventh-graders at the Amherst Middle School. The weather cooperated, providing 85 degree temperatures to give an authentic Saudi feel to the evening.

More than 250 guests arrived at the open tent and were welcomed with an Arabic greeting of "Marhaba" by students at a Saudi customs desk. During the check-in, guests selected a traditional Arabic name for their name badge and completed an actual Saudi customs form, which warned in bold letters "Death for Drug Trafficking" at the top.

Once inside, guests were encouraged to circulate among 14 different stations created by the students. ...

Flowing fabrics hung from the ceiling separated the family and men-only dining sections. The tables were set on large rugs and lowered so that the diners sat on the floor. Only the seventh-grade boys were allowed to host the food stations and the Arabic dancing, as the traditions of Saudi Arabia at this time prevent women from participating in these public roles.

Dressed in traditional Arabic wear-long plaid kilts, white shirts and turbans-the boys offered food and entertained guests. The Arabic dancers enthusiastically performed to music and encouraged male visitors to join their dance. Seventh-grade girls hosted the hijab and veil stations, where other female guests learned how to wear the required head covering and veils. An antique trunk full of black abayas worn by women, and white thobes worn by the men, were available for guests to try on. ...

An Islamic religion station included a Muslim prayer rug with a compass imbedded in it to locate Mecca, readings on the Islamic faith, call to prayer items and prayer beads."




http://www.amherstcitizen.com/AmherstCitizen/web-content/CURRENT_ISSUE/PageViews /PDF_files/AC14.pdf

And sorcerers: see Islam. Allah is as real as Harry Potter.
/I can see Southern Evangelical Snake handlers and Tongue Speakers Night going down real well in New England.

Anyone wanna make a bet here.
I'll bet the results are referring to those passing the standardized test, not any actual averages of those test scores.
....Or if they are looking at those test averages and claiming the overall mean to have increased....
I'll almost guarantee the average of the outside fringe values on the high end are being completely ignored (and purposely so).

NCLB is nothing more then a striving for mediocrity.
.....and that's simply sickening.


"True education makes for inequality; the inequality of individuality, the inequality of success, the glorious inequality of talent, of genius; for inequality, not mediocrity, individual superiority, not standardization, is the measure of the progress of the world."
-Felix E. Schelling-

nrv0us

Thanks for the AWESOME new wallpaper. I only wonder why the muslim and the atheist are playing craps?

There is so much to love in that cartoon, but I always come back to the wolf.

I mean, I have no problem with homosexuals or Muslims or the ACLU, but hell, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that if there are actual wolves roaming the halls of our public schools, then even I can get behind some sort of movement for reform. Or even Homeschooling.

/Or is it a jackal?
//It looks like a jackal!
///"It wasn't right the first time you said it, why the hell would it be right the next ten times! GOD!"
//// http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Dk6MMzfTIk

Evil Twin Skippy

I pretty much agree with everything you said. I didn't say States would actually experience improvement -- only that they'd show improvement. This can be done in many ways: lowering standards, tweaking results, ignoring or excluding relevant data, etc, etc.

I think Public Schools are quite broken. I view it as a combination of Republicans trying to kill it, and Democrats endlessly trying to resuscitate and bring it back from death.

The result is a bed-ridden, half-dead, Terry Shaivo form of life. And people are shocked that our educational system is dysfunctional.

My suggestion? Let it die. Then don't let those that are trying to kill it anywhere near it's rebirth -- we've had quite enough of this Intelligent Design nonsense.

I enjoy how critical thinking is listed there along with sorcery. I guess to some people they must seem similar.

Oh and beoswulf? Be glad you didn't go to my school. On more then one occaison throughout my years at school, we were forced to assume the traditional garb of a bunch of seperatist religious zealots as well as idol worhsipping savages, and spend a day dressing in thier garb, eating thier traditional foods and decorating our classrooms, and learning about thier culture. Yes, that;s right, come thanksgiving we were all indoctrinated into the dark inner workings of pilgrims and indians. Mind you they took great care to present these cultures in a positive light- sugar coat them if you will to try and trick us into appreciating them.

Later, we were forced to participate in the homosexual agenda when we had to spend nearly a semester learning about ancient greece. They made it sound like they were a culture that had made major contributions to modern civilization, and seemed to think we should learn about thier dress, art and culture. We even had to read thier plays for christ's sake. And let me tell you, not ONE of them contained any decent family values. Bloody, pornographic and downright depressing they were.

nrv0us There is so much to love in that cartoon, but I always come back to the wolf.

Wow, I'm speechless. Actually, I'm really curious about the well-dressed monkey man behind the cross. WTF??

And sorcerers: see Islam. Allah is as real as Harry Potter.

Can't argue with that.

Actually, I'm really curious about the well-dressed monkey man behind the cross.

Oh, I thought it was a lawn-jockey. Not, that that explained anything.

statsman

I'm really curious about the well-dressed monkey man

Probably a swing at evolution.

nrv0us: If this outrageous editorial cartoon is to be believed (found on the shrill and frankly terrifying Xtian site BlessedCause.com), they're also being taught how to be Muslims and Sorcerors, and being threatened not just by militant homosexuals, but also by the pet wolves of militant homosexuals.


I bet that wolf is gay too. Actually, I think the blond guy is supposed to represent Robert Jordan novels. Those are some gay @55 book covers.

Here you go djrev

Can't believe no one's posted the real question:

Is our children learning?

Looks like subby graduated from the Derek Zoolander Center For Children Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too

The wolf must represent furries. You notice how they snuck the monkey in there as well. That serves double duty, as a symbol for masterbation and evolution.

However they really dropped the ball on the whole gay guy in the elvis suit thing. I mean if he's so militant, where's his sparkly pink AK-47? You know, the one that's standard issue for all those militant homosexual types.

NCLB and no one is mentioning giving lists of students to military recruiters, hmmm.....

hillbillypharmacist: I'd say that offering federal funds for education is pretty solidly under providing for the general welfare. And meeting some sort of criteria before the feds hand out those funds is both reasonable and expected.

Funny that we can't have any criteria to meet before handing out funds for the fighting in Iraq.

/threadjack