FTA: "The illegality of many cameras will lead to future clashes in court and possible acquittals of suspects"

Utter toss, even illegally seized evidence is still admissible in evidence in the UK courts (the bastards!)

JimmyFartpants: Many European cities have CCTV networks already, or are planning them. Even sweet, sweet, Amsterdam has a citywide surveillance system on the table. Flying out Charles de Gaul airport in Paris? Expect just a little bit more than just taking your shoes off at security. They've got German Shepards and dudes with berets & assault rifles roaming around while you answer a full blown interogation about what the hell you were doing in Paris, and what you have in your bags.

Re: Charles de Gaulle - They have that because of the serious threats faced in France. Not only did the "shoe bomber" fly from there but also in the 1980s there were several hijackings. The terrorists threatened to fly the hijacked airliner into the Eiffel Tower.

Funny you complain about armed guards at de Gaulle, have you ever flown out/into Reagan National? There is even a larger presence there, everyone from Secret Service to MPs.

tonesskin: Me. I hide everything. Want to see it? Get a warrant.

Crunch61, why do you hate America?

He doesn't. Neither do I.

antTheDancingJester: It's simple they don't. I can't find the statistics but a shocking number of CCTV feeds pretty much just go into a black hole. Or one person watches 30 screens at the same time, and you just know they're checking out the hottie with the big rack while some ne'er do well is pushing old ladies over ..

Anecdotal, but a co-worker had their bike stolen from outside our office in central london. The police refused to look at the CCTV unless he could identify when it happened +/- 30mins!

I figured. When I was there this past January I kept trying to figure out how massive of a network that has to be feed all that live video. There was a CCTV on the side of the hotel we stayed at pointing to the entrance. Seriously, the cabling and engineering for that CCTV system must be mind boggling.

andrew131

No, I never have flown out of Reagan.

And I'm not really complaining about the armed guards. They're just in the airport for appearances anyway. Just commenting that Europe is about as hardcore (if not more) so than the States. Security at the airports is one thing. But cameras all over the place is totally unacceptable.

Came for the Torchwood reference. Thanks Bill.

Deport them!

fireclown

He doesn't. Neither do I.

Neither do you what? Have the ability to detect sarcasm?

The cameras have been a huge success. After the 7/7 bombings, the cameras were used to quickly identify the bombers. Images from the cameras led to many other arrests. They have helped in myriad other criminal investigations.

In the U.S., if you are in public view then you have very little expectation of privacy. Generally, one can legally photograph anything that is viewable to the public. Hence, cameras are generally legal if they record footage of a public place.

/me so litigious

JimmyFartpants: Flying out Charles de Gaul airport in Paris? Expect just a little bit more than just taking your shoes off at security. They've got German Shepards and dudes with berets & assault rifles roaming around while you answer a full blown interogation about what the hell you were doing in Paris, and what you have in your bags.

Not meaning to be a smartass by asking but have you travelled anywhere else in Europe? That's pretty much standard faire.

JimmyFartpants - Flying out Charles de Gaul airport in Paris? Expect just a little bit more than just taking your shoes off at security. They've got German Shepards and dudes with berets & assault rifles roaming around while you answer a full blown interogation about what the hell you were doing in Paris, and what you have in your bags.

A) That's the story with most European airports.

B) It's also the reason nobody has comandeered a plane and flown it into any European landmarks recently.

JimmyFartpants: No, I never have flown out of Reagan.

And I'm not really complaining about the armed guards. They're just in the airport for appearances anyway. Just commenting that Europe is about as hardcore (if not more) so than the States. Security at the airports is one thing. But cameras all over the place is totally unacceptable.

The reality is that cameras are only for evidence purposes; meaning, for after the crime has already been committed. I don't like cameras either, there is just something creepy about them. Maybe my fear of 1984?

milo_rules: The cameras have been a huge success. After the 7/7 bombings, the cameras were used to quickly identify the bombers. Images from the cameras led to many other arrests. They have helped in myriad other criminal investigations.

Most of those arrested were not charged and let go.

andrew131
We're talking hundreds of terrabytes a day!

hmmmm terrabytes? Must be some dirty pictures...

scrumpox: hmmmm terrabytes? Must be some dirty pictures...

Oops, I even googled it to make sure I was spelling it right but forgot to edit it. :-(

Already been said, but...



"England prevails!"

Dogbeast

"It's also the reason nobody has commandeered a plane and flown it into any European landmarks recently."

How do you know that? I've also started eating a lower-calorie diet over the past few years. Perhaps THAT's why the terrorists have been unsuccessful.

andrew131

Speaking of mounds of data, seriously, how do they have the man power or resources to process so much data? We're talking hundreds of terrabytes a day!

They don't. They only look at the footage if a crime has been reported. Then they see if there was a camera in the area and pull up the relevant tape to see if it was recorded. Otherwise, as you said there's just too much data to do anything with.

Just because it's technically illegal doesn't stop the government when it's for the public good.

/Random drug searches?
/DUI checkpoints?

JimmyFartpants: Flying out Charles de Gaul airport in Paris? Expect just a little bit more than just taking your shoes off at security. They've got German Shepards and dudes with berets & assault rifles roaming around while you answer a full blown interogation about what the hell you were doing in Paris, and what you have in your bags.

Mr. Scorpion: Not meaning to be a smartass by asking but have you travelled anywhere else in Europe? That's pretty much standard faire.

Dogbeast: That's the story with most European airports.

Really? I travel around Europe all the time and haven't found this to be the case. They're usually a bit more tight after a terrorism scare, but it's only ever stuff like take off your shoes or turn on your laptop. Although I'm guessing that flights to America have far tighter security than European flights.

Oh, I didn't know that!

Should I remove the one I put under my secretary's desk?

i guess i took the blue pill: "sometimes you have to give up your liberties to protect your freedom"

Is that like "We had to destroy the town to save it"?

A country without a written constitution is guaranteed to have a government that will do whatever it bloody wants.

/Wait, that's the U.S. . . .

studebaker hoch: Just because it's technically illegal doesn't stop the government when it's for the public good.

BWAHahahaha!
You really think that a government is after protecting the public when they start breaking privacy laws?

New Moon Rabbit: I always lean forward, look up at whatever camera is closest to me, and wave.

Around here, we wave at the traffic cameras with only one finger.

milo_rules: After the 7/7 bombings, the cameras were used to quickly identify the bombers.

So, it was the cameras that chased down and killed an innocent Brazilian bystander?

New Moon Rabbit: Now when I wait for the light to change at this intersection, I always lean forward, look up at whatever camera is closest to me, and wave.

I know someone that was charge with obstruction for waving at the camera. It was stupid.

Very stupid and scary. I was charged with obstruction of a traffic control device and interfering with police work for waving at and dancing in front of one a couple of years ago. I thought the judge would laugh it out of court. $850.00 in fines, 20 hours of community service later I no longer so much as LOOK toward them. They dropped the traffic control device charge.

/Yeah, put them everywhere why don't you
// as they say - if you've got nothing to hide
/// while our police chief was quoted saying, "Everyone is guilty of something, sometime. It's our duty to find out and be sure they're accountable."
//// God Bless the USA

Most of the cameras aren't gouvernment cameras.
Any farker nca fit CCTV to the front of their house adn then we'd have over 30 Million, they still wouldn't all be controlled by the gouvernment.

Up to 90 per cent of surveillance cameras may be breaching the Information Commissioner's code of practice laid down to stop cameras being used inappropriately

Lets also point out that most of those 90% that may be breaching the code of practise are privately operated. The ones run by the government tend to comply with the DPA and are clearly visible. The ones owned by large chain stores are generally marked reasonably well, but the security of the tapes have been shown to be questionable in some cases, and there is little oversight from the government in this area. And the ones installed in mom and pop stores or small chains (which is a large fraction CCTV cameras in the UK) are the ones that are most at risk here, because there is virtually no enforcement of any related laws on these small companies.

So what this article is arguing in essence, is that the government needs to do more to ensure that small shop owners and the like are upholding their obligations under the Data Protection Act so that they can ensure that peoples privacy isn't being abused by the shop owners and their staff. Those are the people that are the greatest risk of using CCTVs not in compliance with the various codes of practise and applicable laws anyway.

chaddsfarkprefect: A show last night was talking about the ones that have speakers that politely yell at you for littering/wilding and whatnot. They also mentioned that the average Londoner is photographed 300 times a day.

Is that cool with you guys?

Your soul can only be stolen once, so what's the big deal?

Who watches the watchers?

ParadeCam and BeadCam unavailable for comment.

Geez. That place sounds worse than the fascist run, civil rights violating, jack booted, election stealing country that i live in.

\vote for the common man. vote for john edwards.
\\i can't keep a straight face while typing this garbage. : )

They're not illegal, they're extra-legal.

btw - I was vacationing in Canada late in 2005 and took a hike with a London cop, a fine young man and his wife.

He told me they were able to find the subway bombers by backing up video tape from bomb location outward, following suspects from camera to camera.

Compelling, even though I myself am not comfortable being on camera caught picking my nose.

JesseL

You really think that a government is after protecting the public when they start breaking privacy laws?

Good point. Ahem:

"Just because it's technically illegal doesn't stop the government when they can claim it's for the public good."

/fixed.

Well, if they have to be clearly labelled with appropriate signs everywhere then we may as well just slap a big "you are under surveillance" sign over the whole damned country.

It sucks, IMHO, the only saving grace is that, as someone said,mostly nobody is watching.

But coupled with the new unmanned spy choppers that are being deployed over some cities (camera eqquipped, size of an RC toy/model), I'm getting pretty paranoid. I do have things to hide, so do lots of others. it would be alright if we had a set of laws that wasn't confused, massive and full of grey areas and moral laws (like the drug laws).

Bah.

Mugato - how can you possibly dis the Brits for having the queen around when we have just as big a sac of shiat with Bush? At least the Brits are smart enough not to let her near the helm.

Shhhh. Don't let the citizens peasants know.

/like wise for the citizens peasantry in the US in regards to the 'PATRIOT' Act and the revocation of Habaus Corpus, and the rollback of the 4th Ammendment of the United States Constitution

where's the shower cam?

bill eggler: But if CCTV is outlawed, how will Torchwood track aliens around Cardiff????

You know, I was thinking the same thing.

They still call it "Britain"?

I thought it was Airstrip One.

I told you so!


Seriously, no one posted this before me?