Tourney, I think he pretty much just wants you to tell him that he's a tremendous human being and insanely clever to boot.

They are getting paid for their services.

How bad would a corporation have to act before we could all agree the action was wrong? Seriously. Right-wingers, give me a scenario where you would say "hey, that corporation did the wrong thing and should be held accountable."

Gosling [TotalFark] 2007-05-29 09:15:34 PM
It's not about my grandma. It's about the difficulties in maintaining her well-being.

I never asked you to come give grannies sensual body massages and tell them everything would be okay. I asked you to pay a bill or two. It would take 2 or 3 minutes, tops. Please stay on topic.

We don't have the cash for a second. You want your locals supported as well, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to pick up the cost. We're not the Trump family over here.

Tourney wins!

peachgirl
Yes, even though I don't like repeating myself. I'm guessing you "would not do".

Why? Do you really find it so hard to believe that some people would not want to survive attached some piece of equipment for the duration of their lives?

It is more probable that you are just being a jerk, and were waiting for my response.

More probable than...

And yes, generally it's hard to communicate without waiting for a response. There's only so much to gain from a conversation with myself.

elpepe55
give me a scenario where you would say "hey, that corporation did the wrong thing and should be held accountable."
Simple ... they'd have to actively deprive somebody of their rights, in the same way an individual would get put in jail for ... murder by strangulation (an actual example from this thread :-) ), actual robbery, etc.
And something that's more in line with corporations; breaking a contract. Got an agreement with your electricity company to carry on supplying you for N months late payment? Then they should honour that. If you didn't get that kind of a contract with them, then don't whine when they cut you off.

Still waiting for one of you to outline a scenario where a corporation did the wrong thing if you do not feel the electric company did the wrong thing here.

Right-wingers, give me a scenario where you would say "hey, that corporation did the wrong thing and should be held accountable."

/waits to see if any "right-wingers" answer ...

Sorry AJ , did not see your post... however, did you not know that the law requires electric companies not to cut power to those in medical need? How is breaking the law not worse than breaking a contract?

mister aj

Yeah, no one likes a dead cry-baby.

Waaah waaaah, I need my oxygen machine to live.

Suck it up cry baby.

Gosling [TotalFark] 2007-05-29 09:21:33 PM
We don't have the cash for a second.

So let me get this straight.

Even though you obviously have free time (which is why you're here), and you've got some disposable income for TotalFark, you shouldn't be obligated to help some random person you've never met. Is this correct? I'm looking for a yes or no here. I'm not looking for excuses or justifications.

Gosling
That could not be more wrong. I as a customer value human life. If my electric company kills someone for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, they are not serving my interest.
Ed_Severson
Unfortunately for you, you do not constitute "the public" all by your little lonesome. I said "healthy slice," not "every sentient being on the planet."
Gosling
Supply some sort of proof that I am in the minority or cram it.


OH MY GOD.......

I didnt think it was possible but the right side of my brain just fell on the floor laughing, and the left side just leapt out of my head and walked out of the room in protest.

Those have to be some of the absolute funniest most moronic statements ever to grace the paper inside my computer.

just udderly amazing.

GOOD!

I'm glad they went a made an example of that disabled old tramp! Who does she think she is??

If they hadn't cut off her electricity and killed her, other people might try to develop a seriously debilitating medical condition in order to suck free electricity off the power company.

I mean, getting stuck at home or lugging around an oxygen machine everywhere you have to go, just to LIVE, sounds like a pretty sweet deal when you consider that you don't have to pay for electricity anymore!

/sarcastic much?

Even though you obviously have free time (which is why you're here), and you've got some disposable income for TotalFark,

A, I just graduated, am on a job hunt, and have impending student loans.
B, if there is one person on this earth with no free time, one person who spends every waking hour of every day of their life working or sleeping with no time to enjoy life, I honestly pity them.
C, Mordant sponsored me.

elpepe55
That's not what I'd call a contract, that's the government coercing them into a contract. A proper contract is something both parties voluntarily enter into, once they've agreed on terms. Nobody would be forcing a customer into buying electricity from a company that wouldn't give them N-months leeway. if that's what they wanted (I reiterate from earlier - I don't think electricity companies should have a legally mandated monopoly).

Note: there's a difference between what the law says and what (I believe) is right. Arguing about "This is what the law currently says" is dull, and just requires a bit of reading to win. Morality, rights, liberty, that's far more interesting.

mister aj

Well then it is even more disturbing that you think a law protecting poor sick people from losing utilities is morally wrong.

Gosling,

I wrote it in English and everything.

I'm looking for a yes or no here. I'm not looking for excuses or justifications.

Moooo I say

mister aj

By the way, no one is forcing the electric company to be in business. They are free to stop being in business. But if they are, they have to follow the rules of that business. That is voluntarily accepted -- same way they have to pay taxes.

EosDominus
The same retarded family that is now "So Upset" now should have taken proper care of their "really important relative"

Her family, in this case, is her husband and their four children. She lost her job and he had to cut back hours to care for her, so they didn't exactly have a lot of cash to work with.

Gosling

Yes, pay your bills or WE WILL KILL YOU.

Jesus, you people, have you no shred of basic humanity?

Can you make money off of having basic humanity? If not, there will be a lot of people around here with no interest in it.

Just a very well written article.
Will be back on there news site again.

/pay the farkin light bill

If you're that close to death and you can't afford to pay your electric bill/have backup power, shouldn't you be in the hospital in the first place?

Mercury Energy is what became of the Auckland part of the old monopoly before the market was opened up to competition. Trouble is that they don't like that fact and for some reason, they hold all the keys when it comes to anyone in Auckland getting their power connected. They screwed me with someone elses bill, then wouldn't let me change suppliers until I paid it.

I know of 2 sagas where friends have moved into a new place, tried to get the power connected and Mercury have denied it because the previous tenants left with an unpaid bill. It took them 2 weeks to release the property to the preferred supplier and that was only after sending in proof on the new tenancy agreement and other things half a dozen times.

So it's not surprising that the poor woman died given that they treat people with oridinary needs that badly.

Moral of the story - if you're in NZ, don't use Mercury Energy for your power.

The hell with excuses and justifications, Tourney. I just outlined to you, point by point, why the entire foundation of your question is totally and completely wrong.

elpepe55
Well then it is even more disturbing that you think a law protecting poor sick people from losing utilities is morally wrong.

Nearly as disturbing as supporting a law which requires corporations to hand out their services left and right to anybody who cares to pretend they can't pay for them.

elpepe55
If it's done at the expense of forcing property out of the hands of legitimate owners, then yes, it's wrong. I don't want society to go down the slippery slope of "We can deprive entity A of their rights in order to help B".
I don't actually want little old ladies to die, and I believe there are plenty of people who could have helped her other than the government. I've been told that because we're in a democracy and have these laws because the majority of society wants to help people. I'm not so sure ... where were her friends, her family, or even random members of this so-called 'society' trying to help her? If this majority genuinely believed the spirit of the things they vote for, then things like this and other social ills might cease to exist.
I'll just re-iterate - in this situation, I would help friends and family with my own money. This would be me voluntarily giving things up for the good of others. I would rather not have it on my conscience that I supported stealing from others.

Ed_Severson

Jesus H. Christ -- when you are a public utility, providing power to the needy is a cost of doing business, like corporate taxes and payroll. It's something we the people require in exchange for letting a business profit off of something so vital to society as electricity. Can you get that through your thick skull?

mister aj

The whole POINT of a social safety net is for people without friends or family. Your argument of "where is society" because her family didn't care is exactly the opposite of what it means to pool risk in a social civilization.

mister aj
Nobody would be forcing a customer into buying electricity from a company that wouldn't give them N-months leeway. if that's what they wanted (I reiterate from earlier - I don't think electricity companies should have a legally mandated monopoly).

You'll always have an energy monopoly because whatever power company owns the power lines that run to your house is going to be your power company, unless you force the power companies to either give access to their lines (which itself would make the buying and selling of energy between companies much more complex) or nationalize the power grid.

Well then it is even more disturbing that you think a law protecting poor sick people from losing utilities is morally wrong.

Nearly as disturbing as supporting a law which requires corporations to hand out their services left and right to anybody who cares to pretend they can't pay for them.

Ed_Severson, what "pretenders" exactly are you talking about? Because you sure as heck can't be talking about the old lady who is the topic of this article, I think she proved she wasn't bluffing when she DIED.

If it's done at the expense of forcing property out of the hands of legitimate owners, then yes, it's wrong. I don't want society to go down the slippery slope of "We can deprive entity A of their rights in order to help B".
I don't actually want little old ladies to die, and I believe there are plenty of people who could have helped her other than the government. I've been told that because we're in a democracy and have these laws because the majority of society wants to help people. I'm not so sure ... where were her friends, her family, or even random members of this so-called 'society' trying to help her? If this majority genuinely believed the spirit of the things they vote for, then things like this and other social ills might cease to exist.
I'll just re-iterate - in this situation, I would help friends and family with my own money. This would be me voluntarily giving things up for the good of others. I would rather not have it on my conscience that I supported stealing from others.

QFT.

elpepe, you can adhere to the law all you like, but the law does not define what is ethical and what is not. You might carefully consider that the government which you so willingly run to for shelter in this type of argument might be the root of the problem rather than the cure.

Then again, you might not. You haven't shown much flexibility of thought so far.

When a Mercury Energy representative arrived to cut the power supply, the family had explained the circumstances, and had brought the person inside the house to show the representative the oxygen machine, he said.

"They didn't (have a medical certificate) at that moment in time. They clearly could have got one had they been given an opportunity to do so."

OK, so this family didn't have that certificate to keep the power on. They drag in the guy who's there to turn the power off to show him this machine, and...then what? Why didn't they have a certificate?

Everyone hear saying that he should have kept the power on, try to think of it from his point of view. They're months late on the bill, he shows up, and they say "oh please don't turn off the power, look at my wife's machine!". If he asks them if that machine is necessary, OF COURSE they're going to say that it is. To him, it just looks like another excuse for them not to turn off the power. People in his position have seen all kinds of crap, he probably just thought this was another one. If they didn't want the power cut off, they should have gotten the certificate. Otherwise, they're putting a family member's life in the hands of someone whose job it is to go around cutting off power to deadbeats. Nice work.

Old newz

Gosling [TotalFark] 2007-05-29 09:33:11 PM

The hell with excuses and justifications, Tourney.

Thanks. The next step is admitting you're a hypocrite. I won't really get any pleasure from that, so you don't really have to do it in the thread or anything. Just silently know, and it will be enough.

Night night.

elpepe55: How bad would a corporation have to act before we could all agree the action was wrong?

How much lack of concern for your own well being does it take before we can say that someone got what they deserved? How much bleeding from my wallet is enough to consider that people do not deserve the money I work for? Here's reality, people don't care about what you think they owe you, your sweet grandmother or your sense of entitlement.

/you'll get over it

Wow, this thread is just horrible.

A woman died.

Yeah, we make fun of shiat all the time but damn. To look someone in the eye who needs an oxygen tank to live and say, 'Sorry, not yours," is just inhumane.

elpepe55
Jesus H. Christ -- when you are a public utility, providing power to the needy is a cost of doing business, like corporate taxes and payroll. It's something we the people require in exchange for letting a business profit off of something so vital to society as electricity. Can you get that through your thick skull?

Sorry ... was that addressed to me or Jesus H. Christ? I couldn't tell.

mister aj where were her friends, her family, or even random members of this so-called 'society' trying to help her?

Hmm guess they weren't stepping up to the plate to take care of her...

So you are saying that since no one else would do right for her, that biatch had it coming right???

Cause that sounds like what you're trying to say.

Night night.

Just as well, I'm just as done with you as you are with me.

:(

rat_brain_flies_plane
what "pretenders" exactly are you talking about? Because you sure as heck can't be talking about the old lady who is the topic of this article, I think she proved she wasn't bluffing when she DIED.

You sure as heck can't be implying that nobody would try it.

Nobody suggesting the subject of this particular article was pretending; only that somebody else would have given it a shot.

Rom

Old newz

No, not old newz.

If she really wanted to live, she would have made damn sure that she had all the requirements and made damn sure that she had back ups. She didnt, her family didnt, and her friends did not. The power company shouldnt have to care if their power saves your life, YOU SHOULD CARE, and apparently she didnt care enough.

To look someone in the eye who needs an oxygen tank to live and say, 'Sorry, not yours," is just inhumane.

But we do this all of time. Unless you are giving away your paycheck to starving orphans in Africa then you are applying the same moral principle that killed this woman. Every cd you buy, your cell phone, your Friday night dinner out = death for children.

when you are a public utility, providing power to the needy is a cost of doing business

It sure isn't. In almost every modern civilization, the public can rely on electricity being provided to one place alone: hospitals. The rest of it, not so much. Under no circumstances are utility companies, public or private, obliged to provide any private residence with free anything. It is a product that everyone has to pay for. Unless it's paid for by taxes, pay your bill or the lights go out. Electricity is not a right, as much as we might want to think that it is.

There's a huge difference between morality and legality. You are arguing from the moral side.