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(Times Herald Record)   Appeals court to anti-war West Point protestors: STFU and take your stilt-walking, drum-circling, hey-hey-ho-hoing trustafarian bullshiat someplace else   (recordonline.com) divider line 151
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4531 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2007 at 7:02 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-05-25 03:50:56 PM  
Happy Freeper Friday!
 
2007-05-25 04:00:26 PM  
I think of this kind of like the Phelps protests at funerals.

A graduation ceremony is not the time or place for a protest.
 
2007-05-25 04:06:19 PM  
vernonFL: A graduation ceremony is not the time or place for a protest.

FREEPER!
 
2007-05-25 04:06:40 PM  
I get the feeling the sub here is all for Phelps' work, as long as it's pro-war.
 
2007-05-25 04:10:11 PM  
vernonFL: A graduation ceremony is not the time or place for a protest.

Sure it is. That's like saying a bomb factory can't be bombed, only the bombs it makes can. Gotta hit the problem at the source. But any sane person knows protesting at West Point will just piss off the rednecks there and create more animosity towards reason.
 
2007-05-25 04:15:11 PM  
Oh yeah, all those rednecks at West Point, you'd figger it wuz Kentucky...

Whatever.
 
2007-05-25 04:15:31 PM  
I wouldn't organize a pro-war rally at a Berkeley graduation ceremony.

/Or a pro-gun rally in Denver right after Columbine. D'oh!
 
2007-05-25 04:17:25 PM  
vernonFL: A graduation ceremony is not the time or place for a protest.

If only there were some sort of overarching authority that could dictate when it is appropriate for people to peaceably assemble...
 
2007-05-25 04:21:34 PM  
7of7
Gotta hit the problem at the source.

If you really think that a bunch of nancies running around chanting cute slogans with their misspelled signage is going to "hit the problem at the source", you're seriously naive.
 
2007-05-25 04:21:54 PM  
Well, I can't say as I like the ruling, but hopefully this will be extended to Phelps' people.
 
2007-05-25 04:23:54 PM  
If you really think that a bunch of nancies running around chanting cute slogans with their misspelled signage is going to "hit the problem at the source", you're seriously naive.

You may have summed up 7of7 thoroughly with that one statement.

/or maybe not
//cynicism is not necessarily wisdom, there are plenty of naive cynics out there.
 
2007-05-25 04:24:11 PM  
kronicfeld,

If only there were some sort of overarching authority that could dictate when it is appropriate for people to peaceably assemble...

You mean The Computer?

You only have Infrared clearance. It's probably not best to talk about these things.
 
2007-05-25 04:24:29 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson [

FREEPER!

FREEPER!
 
2007-05-25 04:29:26 PM  
Well, you summed up the uselessness of the typical protest-goer quite nicely, submitter. And yeah, this was a bad idea from the get-go. Acting like a goof at West Point would alienate far more than it would convert.
 
2007-05-25 04:29:28 PM  
SchlingFo: Well, I can't say as I like the ruling, but hopefully this will be extended to Phelps' people.

I don't think it should apply to either group. Limitations on the right to peaceful protest on the basis of "Tsk, that's just tacky/inappropriate/insensitive" is pretty scary.
 
2007-05-25 04:30:00 PM  
Anyone hear that NPR weeklong series they did on students at West Point? Ethics class is optional. And even when kids go, it's a gimmie class since they're not required to accept 'torture is inhumane, evil and wrong' as truth.

None of these potential soldiers are forced to respect authority and the chain of command. They were yelling down instructors and everything, it was madness.

Whatever happened to the face in the mud, boot in the back style of military learning?

/has a big problem with the 71% of that graduating class who thinks torture is acceptable
 
2007-05-25 04:36:32 PM  
kronicfeld,

I don't think it should apply to either group. Limitations on the right to peaceful protest on the basis of "Tsk, that's just tacky/inappropriate/insensitive" is pretty scary.

I don't like the ruling.

But, if we're going to be yanking away the civil liberties, we might as well yank them from the real douchebags first.
 
2007-05-25 04:37:18 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson
vernonFL: A graduation ceremony is not the time or place for a protest.

FREEPER!



Restrictions on the right to assemble peaceably don't frighten you to the bone? I thought you liked the Constitution.
 
2007-05-25 04:39:06 PM  
I don't think it should apply to either group. Limitations on the right to peaceful protest on the basis of "Tsk, that's just tacky/inappropriate/insensitive" is pretty scary.

Yeah that is a good point. Still you have to agree to some kind of limits. Why can't they protest on the stage while the kids get their diplomas or medals or whatever?
 
2007-05-25 04:40:20 PM  
vernonFL: Why can't they protest on the stage while the kids get their diplomas or medals or whatever?

Obtrusive physical interference is pretty easy to distinguish.
 
2007-05-25 04:40:37 PM  
You may not like what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it!
 
2007-05-25 04:43:54 PM  
Obtrusive physical interference is pretty easy to distinguish.

Is it a kumbaya silent candlelight vigil they are planning or is it something like submitter imagines which is a circus of noisy, obnoxious, disrespectful potentially vandalous people?
 
2007-05-25 04:46:27 PM  
vernonFL
Is it a kumbaya silent candlelight vigil they are planning or is it something like submitter imagines which is a circus of noisy, obnoxious, disrespectful potentially vandalous people?

When I graduated from college (pre-9/11), Madeline Albright spoke at my commencement. Hippie liberal protestors showed up en masse. We dealt with it peaceably without crying to the courts about it.

I went a private university, by the way. West Point is public, as far as I know.
 
2007-05-25 04:51:29 PM  
When I graduated from college (pre-9/11), Madeline Albright spoke at my commencement. Hippie liberal protestors showed up en masse. We dealt with it peaceably without crying to the courts about it.


That sucks. And yeah while it should be legal that is in extremely bad taste. If it was my graduation with all my friends and relatives there I would be angry.

/plus at my graduation I was really hungover.
 
2007-05-25 04:53:53 PM  
BradBrening: If you really think that a bunch of nancies running around chanting cute slogans with their misspelled signage is going to "hit the problem at the source", you're seriously naive.

Didn't I say pretty much the exact opposite in my post?
 
2007-05-25 04:57:57 PM  
Restrictions on the right to assemble peaceably don't frighten you to the bone?

I say let 'em in and let let the chips fall where they may.
 
2007-05-25 05:01:03 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson
I say let 'em in and let let the chips fall where they may.

I'm also sure you'd be appalled if the graduates--who are the state's security apparatus, after all--were to resort to violence.

Which is good, because it would be appalling.
 
2007-05-25 05:10:10 PM  
You mean The Computer?

I think he means Landru.

Is it Red Hour yet?

/checking my watch
 
2007-05-25 05:11:44 PM  
7of7
Yeah - I meant they're seriously naive. But, while you got to call people at West Point "rednecks", I got to call the protesters "nancies". So, it all works out in the end.
 
2007-05-25 05:14:41 PM  
I'm also sure you'd be appalled if the graduates--who are the state's security apparatus, after all--were to resort to violence.

Appalled? No. Surprised? Yes.
 
2007-05-25 05:17:15 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson
Appalled? No.

Interesting. You don't oppose violence by the state's security apparatus against free speech.

Tell me again how you support free speech?
 
2007-05-25 05:40:53 PM  
Bill_Wick's_Friend: Is it Red Hour yet?

FESTIVAL!!1!
 
2007-05-25 05:47:33 PM  
FESTIVAL!!1!

Yay! It IS Red Hour!

(or, as we like to call it up here in British Columbia "Green Hour". Just like in Return of the Archons, but smokier)
 
2007-05-25 05:49:32 PM  
Legalities aside - sometimes I wonder what in the hell the anti-war crowd uses for brains. Protesting a West Point graduation ceremony is just plain stupid. You *know* it's stupid. It's not going to change anyone's minds about anything. In fact, it'll only make the pro-war side dig in deeper to defend the graduates.

The point of a protest is to raise awareness of something that is wrong. Graduating from west point isn't wrong. It's an honor. You want to protest 'the war'? Go protest on wall street, or dig up any and all dirt you can on oil company execs and their D.C. connections. Put the screws on the guys calling the shots and protest anyone voting pro-war in Congress. But protesting the men and women who's only crime was wanting to serve their country and worked their asses off to make that dream a reality is just stupid.
 
2007-05-25 05:54:28 PM  
You don't oppose violence by the state's security apparatus against free speech.

What are you talking about?
 
2007-05-25 06:02:01 PM  
Weaver95
Legalities aside - sometimes I wonder what in the hell the anti-war crowd uses for brains. Protesting a West Point graduation ceremony is just plain stupid. You *know* it's stupid. It's not going to change anyone's minds about anything. In fact, it'll only make the pro-war side dig in deeper to defend the graduates.

The point of a protest is to raise awareness of something that is wrong. Graduating from west point isn't wrong. It's an honor. You want to protest 'the war'? Go protest on wall street, or dig up any and all dirt you can on oil company execs and their D.C. connections. Put the screws on the guys calling the shots and protest anyone voting pro-war in Congress. But protesting the men and women who's only crime was wanting to serve their country and worked their asses off to make that dream a reality is just stupid.



You earn no points for this.


It's not going to change anyone's minds about anything. In fact, it'll only make the pro-war side dig in deeper to defend the graduates.

Really, we shouldn't protest if people aren't going to change their minds? Civil rights and voting rights would have gone real well with that plan.


The point of a protest is to raise awareness of something that is wrong.

Yes, the war.


Graduating from west point isn't wrong. It's an honor.

They aren't protesting graduating from West Point. They are protesting the war.


But protesting the men and women who's only crime was wanting to serve their country and worked their asses off to make that dream a reality is just stupid.

Again, they aren't protesting graduating from West Point. They are protesting the war.
 
2007-05-25 06:02:55 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson
What are you talking about?


This:

Dancin_In_Anson [TotalFark] 2007-05-25 05:14:41 PM
I'm also sure you'd be appalled if the graduates--who are the state's security apparatus, after all--were to resort to violence.

Appalled? No. Surprised? Yes.
 
2007-05-25 06:03:41 PM  
Weaver95, I'm missing a close-italics. My bad.
 
2007-05-25 06:15:25 PM  
I'm missing a close-italics. My bad.

That's ok - you didn't say much worth discussing.
 
2007-05-25 06:24:57 PM  
Reasonable time, place, manner restrictions? Those don't even apply to non-public forum if I remember correctly.
 
2007-05-25 06:26:31 PM  
I think that I would be surprised...In other words I don't think it would ever happen. And if it did, I would NOT be appalled as I think that it would take a great and appalling effort on the part of the protesters for the graduates of West Point to even notice their pitiful existence.
 
2007-05-25 06:29:40 PM  
Weaver95: Legalities aside - sometimes I wonder what in the hell the anti-war crowd uses for brains. Protesting a West Point graduation ceremony is just plain stupid. You *know* it's stupid. It's not going to change anyone's minds about anything. In fact, it'll only make the pro-war side dig in deeper to defend the graduates.

This presumes two things:

1) Anti-war protest leaders have brains and know how to use them effectively
2) Anti-war protest leaders have, as their goal, the conversion of other third party listeners to their train of thought.

#1? They obviously have brains, no one can deny that, but they really aren't using them very well on this occasion.

#2? I think it's pretty clear that if this is their goal, they are using the wrong means to obtain it. I would hazard to guess that most objective third parties who might be swayed to either the pro- or anti- side (of which there are, realistically, probably few left) would be turned off by such a display, if for no other reason than its inappropriateness.
 
2007-05-25 06:30:14 PM  
Weaver95
That's ok - you didn't say much worth discussing.

Good debating there. You sure showed me. The logic of your argument is flawless.
 
2007-05-25 06:31:37 PM  
I think that I would be surprised...In other words I don't think it would ever happen. And if it did, I would NOT be appalled as I think that it would take a great and appalling effort on the part of the protesters for the graduates of West Point to even notice their pitiful existence.

So long as you realize that violence against peaceful protestors is appalling, we are on the same page.
 
2007-05-25 06:35:17 PM  
inTheJungle: So long as you realize that violence against peaceful protestors is appalling, we are on the same page.

This could probably be a pretty effect litmus test for someone's reasonableness.
 
2007-05-25 06:36:36 PM  
Good debating there. You sure showed me. The logic of your argument is flawless.

I happen to think that protesting a student graduation ceremony is tacky, pointless and rude. You seem to think any action taken for 'the cause' is justifiable.

Not much point in discussing that difference in opinion, now is there? You go right ahead with your bad self, I'm sure you'll win lots of people over with your fanatical attitude and dedication to 'the cause'.
 
2007-05-25 06:43:32 PM  
Weaver95
I happen to think that protesting a student graduation ceremony is tacky, pointless and rude.

Ah, this is not what you wrote before.


You seem to think any action taken for 'the cause' is justifiable.

I don't, and your jump to conclusions is astounding.


Not much point in discussing that difference in opinion, now is there?

Not if you're going to make up beliefs for me.


You go right ahead with your bad self, I'm sure you'll win lots of people over with your fanatical attitude and dedication to 'the cause'.

Do you think that I *am* one of these protestors?
 
2007-05-25 06:48:17 PM  
This could probably be a pretty effect litmus test for someone's reasonableness.

Indeed. Which is why I was surprised when he wrote that violence against the protestors would not be appalling.
 
2007-05-25 07:06:45 PM  
I like to think of the US as the Roman Empire. And Bush is a little bit like Neron.
 
2007-05-25 07:09:01 PM  
hahaha

Hippies suck
 
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