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(UPI)   Coming up with a completely original idea, Sen. Biden wants to divide Iraq into three regions   (upi.com) divider line 28
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258 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 May 2007 at 3:23 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-05-02 08:25:08 PM  
Split 'em up, bring our boys home and break out the popcorn. If things get to hairy we can always nuke the place from orbit.
 
2007-05-02 08:28:33 PM  
First we build a giant wall in Baghdad, now we want to split up the country into regions. Did I imagine the last 50 years of history? Are we going to set up Checkpoint Chuck, next?

It did kind of work for India/Bangladesh/Pakistan. I mean only two of them have nukes, now.
 
2007-05-02 09:01:06 PM  
Biden's had this idea for a long time.
 
2007-05-02 09:37:07 PM  
Biden's had this idea for a long time.

certain folks have had their fingers in their ears, chanting Lalalalalalalala for a while now.
 
2007-05-02 11:55:43 PM  
i27.photobucket.com

approves, effendi!
 
2007-05-03 01:13:34 AM  
Actually, they were pretty much divided along tribal/sect lines until the Brits unified Iraq after the Ottoman Empire was broken up. It makes sense. Or we could let them kill each other and blow up all that fine oil.
 
2007-05-03 03:01:33 AM  
Too bad that there isn't a natural geographic "border" between the Sunnis and Shi'a anymore. That means such a boundary will have to be drawn more or less arbitrarily and we all know how well that works out.

Secondly, the Sunnis are unlikely to be in favor of this deal as the Shi'a would probably gain control of the major oil-producing regions. I imagine there could be some sort of profit sharing worked in, but I don't think the two will be trusting the other for a while with their economic well-being (it's only been a millineum or so ... give it time people!).
 
2007-05-03 03:28:56 AM  
 
2007-05-03 03:48:08 AM  
thedodo

How, exactly, are the 1967 borders more sensitive than the current ones? Especially now that that the borders are settled to the point that you'd be putting Jews in Lebanon.
 
2007-05-03 04:03:37 AM  
One major flaw in his partition plan is that it wasn't made by Iraqis.
 
2007-05-03 04:11:02 AM  
I think the Turks will have a thing or two to say about an independent Kurdistan on its border. Ditto the Saudis on having a Shi'ite (and presumed Iran friendly) state next door.

Never goona happen.
 
2007-05-03 04:19:53 AM  
AuntNotAnt: How, exactly, are the 1967 borders more sensitive than the current ones? Especially now that that the borders are settled to the point that you'd be putting Jews in Lebanon.

Well, my take on it is that it's a 'catch-all' approach. I don't really support the uprooting of decades old settlements(as was done in Gaza in '05), but a main source of the animosity towards Israel from their neighboring countries is the land Israel annexed during and after the Six-Day War and Israel's refusal to comply with the Arab's view on UNSC Resolution 242(the language is somewhat different between languages, "all" and "the" are missing from the English version when pertaining to the returning of annexed and occupied land, if I remember correctly).

However, I'd also love to see Jerusalem taken away from everyone in the area and made into a UN Mandate State, free to entrance and worship by all, but the main focus here is on the repartitioning of the whole area by cultural boundaries rather than economic.
 
2007-05-03 04:42:45 AM  
Well the Shia and the Kurds will go for it because this is bascially what they want and because they have access to oil. The Sunni's will shiat bricks over this and their insuregnecy will be fueled if we force this idea down their throats. Also it's not as easy to implement as Biden makes it out to be. I use to advocate this idea too until I found out that a lot of the major cities in Iraq have mixed populations so it won't be so easy to just draw borders. You would have to force relocations of a lot of civilians and that could get messy. Of course a lot of them are being forced to relocate due to all of the sectarian violence so as always with Iraq all we are left with is more bad choices. There is no "win" or "victory" to be found. A lot more people are going to die and suffer because of Bush deciding to go into Iraq. The question is how many more american soldiers are going to die needlessly before we bring them home.
 
2007-05-03 05:11:34 AM  
Let's divide Biden into three parts before he goes into his "If I Only Had A Brain" number again.
 
2007-05-03 05:42:52 AM  
the dodo

Even in that fantasy map of the Middle East, the West Bank is labeled "status undetermined". Goes to show you how farked up the situation is over there.
 
2007-05-03 05:49:24 AM  
Suckmykiss: Even in that fantasy map of the Middle East, the West Bank is labeled "status undetermined". Goes to show you how farked up the situation is over there.

Indeed it is. What makes it so bad is the actual source of the map:
The following map was prepared by Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters. It was published in the Armed Forces Journal in June 2006, Peters is a retired colonel of the U.S. National War Academy. (Map Copyright Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters 2006).

Although the map does not officially reflect Pentagon doctrine, it has been used in a training program at NATO's Defense College for senior military officers. This map, as well as other similar maps, has most probably been used at the National War Academy as well as in military planning circles.

"This map of the "New Middle East" seems to be based on several other maps, including older maps of potential boundaries in the Middle East extending back to the era of U.S. President Woodrow Wilson and World War I."
In ~80 years they haven't figured it out. Sadly, it doesn't look like the issue will ever be resolved. And yet, I've still yet to hear any legitimate reason or logic as to why it can't just be declared a state, or a UN Mandate, for the Palestinians and it be done with.
 
2007-05-03 07:35:26 AM  
Am I the only one who thinks the Turks should STFU and GBTW with regards to a country that is not thier own?

/I just wish my country (the U.S.) had done the same 4 years ago. . .
 
2007-05-03 07:37:29 AM  
Now he just needs to write a commentary in eight books:

"All Iraq is divided into three parts, one of which the Sunni inhabit, the second the Shiites, the third..." .
 
2007-05-03 08:21:48 AM  
The only problem with this, is aside from the Kurds, the Iraqis don't want to be split up.
 
2007-05-03 08:54:30 AM  
Seabon: The only problem with this, is aside from the Kurds, the Iraqis don't want to be split up.

Actually, it's mainly the Sunni who wish that, because they are afraid of losing oil revenues.

Any such plan would need to include some sort of oil-sharing arrangement, like is currently provided for in the Iraqi constitution.

May I suggest:
img223.imageshack.us

The internal politics of such a split are discussed at length.

Oh, and in many ways this split is occurring even as we speak, whether the nation of Iraq wants it or not. Sunnis and Shias are moving en mass into areas controlled by their sects--similar to what happened after the partition of India.
 
2007-05-03 09:03:23 AM  
Another problem is what do you do with Baghdad's seven million mixed population.

Part of the problem is the oil lies in Kurdish north and shiate south and the Sunnis who are used to having it all have none.

The fermenting of hatred between them makes for easy cheap pickings for Iran and Syria.
I was kind of surprised to learn there are now Al Qaeda training camps in Iraq!
Thats were the Saudis said their insurgents were trained.
Let's see how many Sunni's were indoctranated in the Saudi financed Madrassa schools?
Thats about the number of suicide bombers in the various places they have the schools.
 
2007-05-03 09:22:03 AM  
larry00: Another problem is what do you do with Baghdad's seven million mixed population.

There is no good solution for Baghdad. However, a very bloody and horrific solution is occurring as we speak. Baghdadis are more and more segregating themselves into sectarian enclaves--the layout of which is highly based on historical contingency and not convenience for spliting the capital. There are some very telling maps showing neighborhood distribution of Shia and Sunni today vs before the war that show this intracity migration very vividly--but I just can't find them to link.
 
2007-05-03 09:35:08 AM  
This links should show it.

Hit on 'ethnic areas' and click between 'pre-2006' and 'current' to see this segregation occur.
 
2007-05-03 09:43:43 AM  
Skleenar

Stupid book title. It should read, "How internal religious zealots, warlord wannabes and external agencies created a civil war". We didn't fark it up, a religion did. But don't let a little thing like REALITY get in the way.

The three way split could work, despite Turkey, IF we build permanent bases there and make then we support Turkey's membership in the EU.
 
2007-05-03 09:52:19 AM  
apeiron242: We didn't fark it up, a religion did.

Here's another book for you:
img223.imageshack.us

But don't let a little thing like REALITY get in the way.

Indeed. Please do better in the future.
 
2007-05-03 11:01:51 AM  
Biden's defense of a federated state is a pretty good one to my ears. You don't need three separate countries to separate the country into three semi-autonomous regions held together in baghdad.

There are already millions of displaced refugees within the country. This is already happening as a response to the war, if we went along with it as policy it could help ease the inevitable transition.

Splitting into three "states" plus creating a working oil-sharing revenue plan could go a long way to stemming the sunni insurgency and the shia paramilitary groups.
 
2007-05-03 11:09:21 AM  
thedodo, that map is very cute, but I notice it involves breaking bits off substantial numbers of countries, including Iran. Anyone else think that'll be a problem?
 
2007-05-03 11:15:53 AM  
I think that setting up a situation like this is a good idea. I have heard of a situation where a county is made up of individual parts, lets call them states, and the set up a representative parliment. Hmmmm a federal system with a republic style government. It is called freedom.
 
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