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(911Blogger)   Panicky 9/11 truth nutjobs debate Oakland gas tanker incident, see their WTC conspiracy theories collapse as quickly as that highway did   ( 911blogger.com) divider line
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19552 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2007 at 3:55 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-30 06:51:26 PM  
content.answers.com

www.ptfnasty.com

www.nndb.com


Look: the government told us that the North Vietnamese started the Vietnam war when they attacked us at the Gulf on Tonkin!! Uncle McNamara even said so! I'm glad the federal government doesn't lie to us. Otherwise, we wouldn't know who to trust!

Who needs to declassify all these files that they have sealed for decades and decades. We can just take their word at face value.
 
2007-04-30 06:58:23 PM  
cryptozoophiliac: So let's review: the Bush Administration is in bed with the Saudis, the oil and armaments industries, and has cynically used 9-11 to attain its foreign and domestic goals.

Don't forget the reverse vampires, the saucer people and the Rand corporation.
 
2007-04-30 06:59:07 PM  
Goodfella:

Ooh, good Strawman.

I don't recall saying the government(gubbmint?) never lies. Nor did I say that they will never lie.

You however are claiming that the government always lies, no matter what. If Bush says that gravity still works, I wouldn't leap off a building due to a belief that he is lying. Skepticism must be tempered by reason, or you are as big of a fanatic as BushCo.
 
2007-04-30 06:59:12 PM  
As a ruler of a galactic empire I am getting a kick out of these arguements.
 
2007-04-30 07:02:55 PM  
I have always had a problem with the fact that these "Rebels" spent one lousy all nighter and were able to come up with a weakness on something like the Death Star.

Why didn't the Empire just park a Star Destroyer over the opening?
 
2007-04-30 07:05:29 PM  
jedimk: Why didn't the Empire just park a Star Destroyer over the opening?

Or just put a mesh screen up to cover the hole.
 
2007-04-30 07:05:50 PM  
What I find the most incredible about the whole 9/11 truther movement is there complete lack of understanding of Occam's Razor.

They ,for some reason, find it impossible to believe a fully fueled jetliner crashing into a steel skyscraper could cause it to collapse, but they have no difficulty believing in an enormously complicated conspiracy theory involving hundreds if not thousands of people. It hurts sometimes to realize just how stupid people can be.
 
2007-04-30 07:07:02 PM  
Dododado: If fire doesn't melt steel, how do we get it into the shape of beams?

They grow in the wild that way. You know, the large, native steel beam forests of Indonesia?
 
2007-04-30 07:07:18 PM  
SheepFarker:

I just think that our government doesn't want us to know how well planned and executed the attack was. Our government is supposed to make us feel safe. That is their primary purpose.

I always find it kinda weird when 'mericans say stuff like this. Isn't the government supposed to uphold the consitution and protect the liberties of US citizens?

/I admit, it hasn't ACTUALLY done this for many decades, but isn't this really what it's supposed to do?
 
2007-04-30 07:09:25 PM  
Hey stupid conspiracy theorists: stop asking questions about 9/11.
 
2007-04-30 07:10:48 PM  
jedimk: Why didn't the Empire just park a Star Destroyer over the opening?

Radioactive Ass: Or just put a mesh screen up to cover the hole.

Look, the fact is NO SINGLE FIGHTER could have Brought Down the Death Star- wire mess aside, all this ASSUMES that one torpedo can bring down the Largest SPACE STATION ever created.
 
2007-04-30 07:12:31 PM  
jedimk if you keep it up with all of the "why didn'ts," it'll only run you around in circles.

Also, each and every one of you who is continually suggesting that Alderaan, a loyal (if occasionally troublesome) planet under Imperial rule, was destroyed by the Imperial Navy should be ashamed of yourselves for believing Rebel lies and propaganda. What's the real conspiracy here? Blaming the government for the deaths of millions of soldiers in battle, or blindly accepting that it destroyed an entire planet just because one senator's daughter was a troublemaker?
 
2007-04-30 07:13:56 PM  
Infinite Entropy

What I find the most incredible about the whole 9/11 truther movement is there complete lack of understanding of Occam's Razor.

Yeah Occam's Razor is great, I remember some idiot came up to me once and said there were this invisible bugs that were so small they could crawl into your skin, and that these bugs somehow took over your body and then started to make you sick. "Why would a bug do that?" I asked, and then he started going on about how they have to transmit some code and have babies inside your body (uhh how is this even possible). It was all elaborate and complicated and I'm sitting there thinking "Uh, hello, diseases are just curses, dumbass" but I just sort of smiled quietly to myself and let him talk about it. Invisible bugs lol!
 
2007-04-30 07:16:41 PM  
reverting to serious mode:

rush22 the curse explanation accounts for a higher, magical power responsible for enforcing the terms of a supernatural contract made with your enemy for unspecified terms. Hardly a simpler explanation than tiny organisms.
 
2007-04-30 07:18:02 PM  
What I find the most incredible about the whole 9/11 truther movement is there complete lack of understanding of Occam's Razor.

Occam's Razor isn't a law of nature.
 
2007-04-30 07:19:19 PM  
Infinite Entropy: What I find the most incredible about the whole 9/11 truther movement is there complete lack of understanding of Occam's Razor.

They ,for some reason, find it impossible to believe a fully fueled jetliner crashing into a steel skyscraper could cause it to collapse, but they have no difficulty believing in an enormously complicated conspiracy theory involving hundreds if not thousands of people. It hurts sometimes to realize just how stupid people can be.


OK...a slight twist on Occam's Razor. They knew it was coming and stood down. Doesn't require a lot of people "in the know". No controlled demolition, no missle, no shoot-down. Just intentionally fark up the air defense system on a chosen day, thwart a late attempt at intercepting #77 (I'm looking at you Cheney), and start-up the war machine. So simple......

/Props to Cryptozoo.
 
2007-04-30 07:20:11 PM  
JerkyMeat:
""The same people who think a portion of freeway equals 110 story steel struction also believe teh earth is less than 10k years old.

They want to believe in a fairy tale.""

But the last time I checked steel still equaled steel, and steel still loses half its strength 650C.
 
2007-04-30 07:22:12 PM  
Staypuft_Mushmallow_Manz

rush22 the curse explanation accounts for a higher, magical power responsible for enforcing the terms of a supernatural contract made with your enemy for unspecified terms. Hardly a simpler explanation than tiny organisms.

Oh great another conspiracy theorist. You know what is simpler? God is cursing you. That's obviously the truth. Have you got a problem with the way I apply Occam's Razor? Perhaps you don't know what it means: it means "whatever answer sounds simplest is obviously correct so shut up you idiot." Who's the deluded moron? Me who believes that a spirit has simply possessed the person through normal channels or tiny bugs that I can't even see infesting a person? Yeah, I can't see spirits either. And I can't see these bugs. Which one has a more simple explanation?
 
2007-04-30 07:24:06 PM  
Tears_that_smell_like_dogfood simpler than that, even, is the political reality that shooting down an airliner full of citizens because of information that is believed to be credible not only requires more courage than any politician in this country has had in a long time, it also requires a pilot to shoot down the jet, and finding one of those will be difficult.

Now if you want to say that the pols made the crass assessment "I can shoot this thing down, and I'll have been right but no-one will ever believe it and I'll be impeached and imprisoned for this atrocity, and my party will be out of power for 50 years, or I could hesitate, for which few will blame me, and then rally the country around the tragedy and stay in power longer" then that might be fair. I also don't think there's a politician in America who would have handled that in the tough but right way.
 
2007-04-30 07:24:22 PM  
Staypuft_Mushmallow_Manz: Alderaan, a loyal (if occasionally troublesome) planet under Imperial rule, was destroyed by the Imperial Navy should be ashamed of yourselves for believing Rebel lies and propaganda.

Look, I'm not trying to attack OUR TROOPS, I just believe that certain "SYSTEMS" have a lot to loose if the Empire can now SCARE everyone into line - all of a sudden certain "COMMODITY'S" become much cheaper to obtain, the "Dark Market" becomes flooded with with cheap Spice and Deathsticks (and we KNOW that the Empire uses those markets to fund "Dark Projects" as well) - And untold numbers of TROOPERS are wasted so a small, powerful bunch of "Senators" can continue to accumulate credits.

These guys selflessly put their lives on the line for us, they deserve to be used only when needed and NOT blown to pieces for PROFIT!!
 
2007-04-30 07:24:31 PM  
i94.photobucket.com

/quick and dirty
 
2007-04-30 07:25:06 PM  
Infinite Entropy: What I find the most incredible about the whole 9/11 truther movement is there complete lack of understanding of Occam's Razor.

They ,for some reason, find it impossible to believe a fully fueled jetliner crashing into a steel skyscraper could cause it to collapse, but they have no difficulty believing in an enormously complicated conspiracy theory involving hundreds if not thousands of people. It hurts sometimes to realize just how stupid people can be.


Hmmmm... you know, it actually does make good sense that a building couldn't withstand a collision with a large plane.

i165.photobucket.com

/Btw, that's the empire state building after being hit by a B-52... it didn't fall down
//not that I'm throwing my hat in the ring with all conspiracy theorists, it's just a good thing to have an open mind
 
2007-04-30 07:27:17 PM  
Bastar

That was the point I was trying to make.

How could "Rebel Skum" with all kinds of problems getting money and weapons have destroyed the Death Star....let alone the Death Star II without inside help. These facts will illustrate my point.

1. R2D2 belonged to a Darth Vader before getting lost and getting "found" by rebels.

2. R2D2 happened to get access to the entire schemadics (sp) of the Death Star.

3. R2D2 I am sure was programmed to help these rebel skum in finding the one weakness of the battle station.

4. Darth Vader was the ONLY survivor of the whole debacle. Not only that he let the ones responsible for the attack go to let them "lead" him to the hidden planet.

That covers the first Death Star

5. Darth Vader just happens to let the rebel forces go down on the planet. Telling Admiral Piett "Leave them to me"

6. According to reports actually murdered the Emperor while siding with his son.

The evidence is against him. Darth Vader has never forgiven the Emperor lying about his wife's death. He came up with this plan to get the Emperor out in the open where he could challenge him an kill him.
 
2007-04-30 07:31:06 PM  
Goodfella:

You know you can be skeptical of the government without buying into the idiocy, lies, and junk science conspiracy theorists put forth.

It isnt an either or situation, just because you find Truthers to be total sheep and morons doesnt mean you absolutely believe the government 100%. The government lies, the truthers are simply wrong. flat out wrong, and probably need to be medicated for mass paranoia and delusions.
 
2007-04-30 07:33:43 PM  
I know exactly what made September 11, 2001 happen.

It all began when the Earth coalesced from its components with a rotating motion, so that the resulting planet would rotate about its axis. Eons later, after H. sapien sapien evolved, Julius Cæsar set up a calendar with twelve months and an average of 30½ days per month. Later, a monk who was lousy at math tried to determine the birthday of a religious figure who may or may not have existed, and so reset the beginning year of that calendar to the miscalculated birth year of said religious figure. Then Pope Gregory tweaked it a bit, and established the concept of Leap Centuries, to prevent further discrepancy that had already resulted in needing several days removed from the calendar.

And that is why, right after September 10, and just before September 12, September 11 happened. See? It all fits!
 
2007-04-30 07:35:53 PM  
Mercutio:/Btw, that's the empire state building after being hit by a B-52... it didn't fall down, not that I'm throwing my hat in the ring with all conspiracy theorists, it's just a good thing to have an open mind.


Quoting the webpage that the image is from:
"Too late the pilot of the U.S. Army B-25 bomber with three men aboard, saw the Empire State Building loom up before his eyes. At 300 miles per hour, he plunged through the 34th Street side of the building wreaking havoc. The major portion of the wreckage penetrated the 78th floor. An engine hurtled down an elevator shaft igniting a furious fire in the basement. Parts of the motor and landing gear tore through the entire building landing on top of a 13-story ediface across the street and igniting a second conflagration.

With legs held down by two newsmen, photographer Ernie Sisto crawled out on a harrowing ledge and took the historic photo. It ran on page one of the New York Times."

End point:
It was a B-25 bomber, which was a light army bomber, the same type that was light enough to take off from carriers to do Doolittle's raid.

//Yay Reading.
//Mabye reading is a conspiracy too, just trying to keep an //open mind.
 
2007-04-30 07:37:38 PM  
These 911 Truthers will believe anything that makes our government look bad, especially the Bush Administration. They should foresake their belief in the 911 Fantasy and turn to God to help them see the real The Truth.
 
2007-04-30 07:41:06 PM  
jedimk: The evidence is against him. Darth Vader has never forgiven the Emperor lying about his wife's death. He came up with this plan to get the Emperor out in the open where he could challenge him an kill him.

It's hard to argue with that, and I'm sure that was ONE ASPECT of it - but look at how this "New Republic" is a financial nightmare - Do you HONESTLY think that Vader wasn't part of this MONEY MAKING SCAM! Hell, he was PERSONALLY INVOLVED in most (if not all) of the development of the TIE Weapon System, you know that he was getting SOMETHING from Sienar Fleet Systems for his "EFFORT" - I wounder how much he stood to make on the Death Star project.

No, Vader was a STOOGE for the beings that stand in the shadows, washing Credits around for their own amusement. Keep your eyes on the IBC boys, thats where it all comes together. And we KNOW who runs them...

No, I think Vader's (unsuccessful) ploy for power is also a side show, there to distract us from the shadowy powers that be.
 
2007-04-30 07:42:24 PM  
Mercutio74
If you're going to talk about having an open mind at least present facts that are true. It wasn't a B-52 that hit the ESB. It was a B-25. If you want to compare that to a 767 you'll get the following -

67 ft 6 in - B-25

156 ft 1 in - 767

Know the facts.....
 
2007-04-30 07:43:12 PM  
Mercutio74:
That was a B-25, in 1945, NOT a B-52. Big, HUGE difference. The B-25 was a twin-engine (prop) light bomber. Wingspan: 67 ft 6 in, loaded weight: 33,510 lb.
Meanwhile a B-52 has EIGHT jet engines, a wingspan of 185 ft, and a loaded weight of 265,000 lb.
With this kind of sloppy homework, its no wonder wacy conspiracy theories get started. By comparison a 737 is a little more than half as big as a B-52. (And many times larger than a B-25.)
 
2007-04-30 07:45:12 PM  
Mercutio74

First of all get your facts straight it was a B-25 used in WWII not a B-52. That makes on heck of a difference

Second of all a b-25 is 1/3 the length of a Boeing 767 that hit the trade centers here is a diagram of the specs of both planes.

I just picked a type of 767 Wiki didn't tell what type of 767 it was that crashed into the towers.

767-200 767-200ER
Length 48.5 m
(159 ft 2 in)

Wingspan
47.6 m
(156 ft 1 in)

Empty Weight
176,650 lb
(80,127 kg) 181,610 lb
(82,377 kg)

Maximum take off weight
315,000 lb
(142,882 kg) 395,000 lb
(179,169 kg)

compared to a b-25

Length: 52 ft 11 in (16.1 m)
Wingspan: 67 ft 6 in (20.6 m)
Height: 17 ft 7 in (4.8 m)
Wing area: 610 ft² (57 m²)
Empty weight: 21,120 lb (9,580 kg)
Loaded weight: 33,510 lb (15,200 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 41,800 lb (19,000 kg)

Most important of all is the speed

B-25
Maximum speed: 275 mph (239 knots, 442 km/h)
Cruise speed: 230 mph (200 knots, 370 km/h)

Boeing 767
Mach 0.80 (470 kt, 530 mph, 851 km/h at 35,000 ft cruise
altitude)

Comparing those incidents is like comparing a 2000 lb bomb blast to a firecracker.
 
2007-04-30 07:49:02 PM  
mrspock42--

I highly doubt Mr. Open Mind can tell you the difference in specs between a B-25, B-52, or a Boeing 747.

In all likelyhood his open mind simply led him to copy the picture, quote about the importance of open minds, and all critical thinking wholesale from a CT site.

For future reference:
B-25 bomber: length 50ft, weight ( empty ) 21k lbs.
B-52 bomber: length 160 ft, weight ( empty ) 185k lbs
Boeing 747: length 231 ft, weight ( empty ) 400k lbs

You know what's even more important than having an open mind?

Brains, and the ability to use it occassionally.
 
2007-04-30 07:49:46 PM  
Mercutio74

A B-25 is not a B-52.


B-25:
# Length: 52 ft 11 in (16.1 m)
# Wingspan: 67 ft 6 in (20.6 m)
# Height: 17 ft 7 in (4.8 m)
# Wing area: 610 ft² (57 m²)
# Empty weight: 21,120 lb (9,580 kg)
# Loaded weight: 33,510 lb (15,200 kg)

B-52:
# Length: 159 ft 4 in (48.5 m)
# Wingspan: 185 ft 0 in (56.4 m)
# Height: 40 ft 8 in (12.4 m)
# Wing area: 4,000 ft² (370 m²)
# Empty weight: 185,000 lb (83,250 kg)
# Loaded weight: 265,000 lb (120,000 kg)


And just for kicks:
Boeing 757:
# Length: 54.47 m (178 ft 7 in)
# Wingspan: 38.05 m (124 ft 10 in)
# Height: 13.56 m (44 ft 6 in)
# Loaded weight: 123,600 kg


Also you may want to look up the structural differences between the WTC towers and the Empire State.
 
2007-04-30 07:50:13 PM  
Bastar

It was Grand Admiral Thrawn pulling the strings.

He was behind everything from the death of the outbound flight to the invasion of the Yuuzhon Vong (SP).
 
2007-04-30 07:51:53 PM  
damn you faster typers/ fact looker uppers!

shakes fist at Remarkable_Anus, Moglandor, and jedimk...

or was it...a...CONSPIRACY????
 
2007-04-30 07:53:25 PM  
FritzyvonFritz

It was the work of Grand Admiral Thrawn.

I know you think he is a fictional character.....but that is what he wants you to believe.
 
2007-04-30 07:53:49 PM  
i second that Fritzy i am way to slow and for that i am shamed
 
2007-04-30 07:53:53 PM  
Lol.... 's what I get for getting up from the pc for a few min after starting to type the reply.


//well said to all making the correction.
//Make sure your mind isn't so open that it falls out
 
2007-04-30 07:53:55 PM  
Ha ha ha ha, now we started the vietnam war!
Holy crap this is fantastic, I wanna dip my chips in the back of Rosie's head.
Tinfoil hats RULE!!!!
 
2007-04-30 07:54:38 PM  
Has anyone mentioned the difference between a B-25, a B-52 and a 767 yet?
 
2007-04-30 07:58:59 PM  
natas6.0

Why would you want to eat pure fat. That is about all she has for brain ya know.
 
2007-04-30 08:00:57 PM  
So, let me see if I get this straight. Humans are engaged in a never ending struggle to try and hurt each others feelings through partisan bickering, a back and forth cat fight that neither will ever give up on.

Righto.

Scotty, beam me up...
 
2007-04-30 08:03:58 PM  
jedimk: It was Grand Admiral Thrawn pulling the strings.

Nope - Thrawn was another "Operative", probably recruited by the IBC when he was in the "Unknown Regions". Gotta watch those bankers...
 
2007-04-30 08:05:16 PM  
//Han shot first. What does that say about the Rebel Alliance, HMMMM?!

That's Imperial propaganda. Recent evidence has shown that his attacker shot first. Besides, Han wasn't even in the Alliance at that time.
 
2007-04-30 08:06:22 PM  
jedimk

Well, it's fortunate for him that you, me and the deluge of other posters responding to the B-25 issue are easily led sheeple who believe what our government tells us...if only we had the power of TRUTH on our side...

/how's that whole open mind thing workin out for you Mercutio74?
 
2007-04-30 08:07:31 PM  
jedimk and kaitou broke it down a lot nicer than I did. Kudos...
 
2007-04-30 08:07:34 PM  
Mugato: Besides, Han wasn't even in the Alliance at that time.

Or so "The Powers That Be©®™" would have you believe...
 
2007-04-30 08:10:15 PM  
Dear god some of you people are freaking retarded as..well a retard, but still I really hope mercutio 74 and the other nutjobs never have children. Please keep preaching about keeping an "open mind" while giving us such dumbass facts as the Empire State Building collision. We all need some new fodder to make fun of you about.
 
2007-04-30 08:11:09 PM  
bastar

I figured it would be the IBC. Those guys have always been slimy.

I bet it was the butler droids like ZZ-4Z...cuz it is always the butler.
 
2007-04-30 08:11:10 PM  
the blue man? In charge of it all? Hardly. Now that Solo character - he might seem like an insignificant bit-player but consider: he comes from a powerful family from isolationist Corellia, where there happens to be a Seinar Fleet Systems foundry, and where his extended family is no stranger to genocide and other atrocities. Look how he fits into this mess: he "escapes" from the death star, "survives" Lord Vader's custody, and winds up married to the second President of the Republic! That's how the Corellians always do it: man behind the leader. Look at all the help he had - senator Bel Iblis, Antilles, etc etc. This whole racket begins and ends in Coronet.
 
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