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(911Blogger)   Panicky 9/11 truth nutjobs debate Oakland gas tanker incident, see their WTC conspiracy theories collapse as quickly as that highway did   ( 911blogger.com) divider line
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19551 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2007 at 3:55 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-30 05:15:18 PM  
This thread needs more chicken wire...

nightafternight.blogs.com
 
2007-04-30 05:15:39 PM  
TryinToThink: My perception of what is a bunny and what is a pancake are way off...

I'm glad I was able to open your eyes.
 
2007-04-30 05:15:41 PM  
SO: BUSH AND THE FBI ARE INCOMPETENT. YET IT IS THEIR NARRATIVE ABOUT 9-11 THAT YOU ARE FAITHFULLY PARROTING.

FTW.
 
2007-04-30 05:16:13 PM  
elchip


I don't think Pearl Harbor was as bad.


Depends on your view of how important the battle line is. At the time, before the significance of aircraft carriers became widely known, it was viewed as a disaster. The only major force capable of keeping the IJN from the West Coast (according to 1940's naval strategy) was pretty much gutted.
 
2007-04-30 05:17:46 PM  
9/11 may have been Bush's attempt at a conspiracy, but Bush Sr. is still the master of conspiracies. Just look at what he was able to pull off!

Click here for the ultimate in conspiracies!
 
2007-04-30 05:18:08 PM  
It's not that there haven't been horrific secret government conspiracies before (see: The Final Solution). It's just that the type of government that is required to pull off the perfect murder of 3000 citizens is also the type of government that doesn't allow any of its citizens to publicize that conspiracy. Freedom of speech and of the press tend to make such conspiracies impossible, and despite the Patriot Act, it's clear that pretty much anyone is still allowed to put up any old website with any wild accusations against the government they prefer.

Sophie Scholl was sent to the guillotine for circulating anonymous flyers that criticized Hitler. Dylan Avery, on the other hand, makes money off the "Truther" theories and walks around free, and his continuing existence pretty much disproves every one of his theories.
 
2007-04-30 05:19:52 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

actually people are parroting what every credible reporter and news organization is saying and has been for a while now. Not to mention every intelligence agency around the world that had even looked at 9/11.

Why is it that no credible documentaries exist that prove anything but the "official" story says (minus a few inconsistencies that are largely irrelevant)
 
2007-04-30 05:22:39 PM  
Someone should just build two towers and ram two planes into them to see what happens. Yeah.
 
2007-04-30 05:22:53 PM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2007-04-30 05:23:00 PM  
I think Submitter doesn't quite appreciate the amount of blind faith that said nutjobs have in their tinfoil hats.

This will be about as effective as pointing out dinosaurs to a Creationist.
 
2007-04-30 05:23:35 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

Just blame the Jews and get it over with.
 
2007-04-30 05:23:47 PM  
crunchyfist It's called spalling but I have a feeling you knew that already. :P
 
2007-04-30 05:23:58 PM  
Lee 451: Obviously the ppl who claim that "fire cannot melt steel" have never held a match to a (non-soapy) steel wool pad. It burns, it oxidizes, it's gone!

lee, lay off the crack rock man! what you doing with brillow and lighters?
 
2007-04-30 05:27:47 PM  
For the record, I do not hate Bush, only what his administration has done to my country.

And I fail to see why his administration is given a pass for 9-11. Making excuses is the quickest road to dissolution. It might be comforting to some childlike component in your conciousness to ridicule the easiest targets in the 9-11 truth movement, to accuse patriots of lying and to accept incompetence in your leadership, but it doesn't bode well for the future of the republic.
 
2007-04-30 05:29:07 PM  
Snakeophelia: ..Dylan Avery, on the other hand, makes money off the "Truther" theories and walks around free, and his continuing existence pretty much disproves every one of his theories.


But see, by letting him walk free, they are just tricking you even more. I mean, come on; use your head...
 
2007-04-30 05:29:42 PM  
Trusses. Spalling. What idiots are those that think this is a conspiracy.

Trusses kill people; in fact, there are entire towns that have ordinances in place label buildings with big stone signs if they contain truss roofs. The gusset plates on wooden trusses suck ass when heated in a housefire... imagine what happens when a truck is burning under trusses holding up concrete.

Spalling boils popcorn from the insi.. oh wait I meant concrete. Same difference... it's still a bleve either way. :P
 
2007-04-30 05:29:44 PM  
I don't buy the conspiracy stuff, but this collapse really doesn't prove or disprove anything about the WTC. The people gloating about this are being really obnoxious about it. You made your point after one post.
 
2007-04-30 05:29:44 PM  
cryptozoophiliac: And I fail to see why his administration is given a pass for 9-11. Making excuses is the quickest road to dissolution. It might be comforting to some childlike component in your conciousness to ridicule the easiest targets in the 9-11 truth movement, to accuse patriots of lying and to accept incompetence in your leadership, but it doesn't bode well for the future of the republic.

If you're not a thermite guy, what exactly do you think happened?
 
2007-04-30 05:33:21 PM  
First of all, Bush didn't do shiat. The people who put Bush into power did it. You really think Chimpy is in charge of anything? As for 9/11, I doubt the government did it, but I bet they knew it was coming and didn't stop it.

If the United States was really under attack, then why didn't the Secret Service take Bush away to a safe place? "Airplanes hijacked, run into buildings, aimed at DC... eh, just let the president sit there in a public school where everyone knows he was going to be, he'll be
fine."
 
2007-04-30 05:33:31 PM  
i have my own conspiracy theory regarding 9/11: al quaeda and related flew two planes into WTC (which later collapsed due to structural failure, steel doesn't have to melt to collapse, just weaken) and one into Pentagon, with the 4th possibly being shot down, over 3000 people killed

the government needs a united war front, and rather than give the people anger over government fark ups (with possibly gov't fark up over the plane in Pennsylvania which they may have had little knowledge of the conditions on the plane, one of those after-the-fact "doh"'s, who knows maybe the passengers FAILED and the gov't had no choice but to shoot it down?) they cover up whatever problems led to it all and instead focus on who did it, driving two wars: Afghanistan and the covert economic/military/political campaign against terrorist groups and regimes in central asia and the middle east (related to Israel), before driving a third war intended to establish America's new hegemony (their idea being permanent success) in Arabia: Iraq

if they admitted how much they farked up, they probably would've been impeached or would lose any sympathy from the population and thus making their ability to function impossible

but unfortunately for them their successes didn't change the problems that led to 9/11 in the first place (oversteering mistakes), and the same tactics used to keep the presidency and gov't intact after 9/11 are being used in regards to current (bigger) fark up of Iraq

it's like a person who say operates a piece of machinery, the machinery requires constant attention to every component, the operator focuses on components 1-5, but miss component 6, which fails and causes the machine to overheat and explode... that person, rather than admitting failure, focuses on fixing the machine (as they see is the best way to solve the situation, but the thing is there wouldn't be a situation if they had paid attention to component 6), that said you should still blame the individual for the problem in the first place as well as blaming the failure of component 6 and the chain-reaction that led to the explosion, in this example firing them and having somebody else fix things, but in an attempt to save themselves (which by rationalization is saying "in order to fix the problem") they cover up that component 6 fact, making the whole thing seem like a genuine anomaly

when it isn't an anomaly at all

9/11 wasn't an anomaly, neither is the insurgency in Iraq

that's the only conspiracy about this whole damn decade
 
2007-04-30 05:35:41 PM  
Question:

Admittedly, I've been out of touch for a while, however, I recall opponents to the war in Iraq saying that it was all about lowering gas prices by taking over the lucrative Iraqi fields and putting more oil in the supply?

Why then did I just pay $2.87 today to fill up?
 
2007-04-30 05:35:50 PM  
Paedophile_Deluxe: I have no idea. But I do know that a crime has been cynically exploited and inflated into an undeclared and perpetual war by persons with inherent conflicts of interest, given their ties to the oil and arms industries.

If I had to pitch an alternative theory, it would probably involve Islamic fundamentalist patsies with Saudi or Pakistani funding, and a deliberately compromised American security network. See? I didn't even have to include the Mossad or the "dancing Israelis".

A lot of actors here had a vested interest in seeing a war. Both the Jihadists and the Bushies, come to think of it.
 
2007-04-30 05:36:28 PM  
For the record, I do not hate Bush, only what his administration has done to my country.

Bush is also President of SuperCrazyConspiracyland?
 
2007-04-30 05:36:42 PM  
stonicus: well most obviously, he wasnt in DC so why would the secret service be concerned about planes aimed at DC?
 
2007-04-30 05:36:59 PM  
AdamK....good job.
 
2007-04-30 05:39:09 PM  
crypto: what's really different now?

We have a PATRIOT act, a deficit again, politics that are a bit less civil than they were a decade ago, and a needless foreign war. Admittedly this needless foreign war is costlier than any war in a long time, but if you look back we've probably had (on average) one needless war per administration. The Patriot Act is almost certainly unconstitutional, but frankly half of the laws (or more) passed in the last 150 years would have been unconstitutional if the SC hadn't decided that Article 1, section 8, clause 18 completely farking negates the 10th amendment. If you look at the grievances against George III of Britain in the Declaration of Independence, almost every one of them could be leveled at the U.S. government at least as far back as LBJ with the Great Society and Vietnam. You perceive that America is catastrophically losing its liberties all at once. I say it's been a slow march for a long time, and this is only a little speed bump.

Each party wants your liberties. GOP lawmakers want to focus on your right to dissent and to certain types of immoral behavior. The Dems would rather focus on your economic rights and your right to do things that aren't safe. Either way they get rolled back, slowly but surely.
 
2007-04-30 05:39:25 PM  
elchip:

Then why have most oil contracts gone to NON US companies???
 
2007-04-30 05:39:40 PM  
Tweekster, because supposedly they didn't, at the specific "my pet goat moment" know 100% how many planes were hijacked and where all of them were headed.

As far as inside job, again, I don't think it was an inside job, just that the "insiders" knew it was coming. Like FDR knowing Pearl Harbor was coming. He didn't do it, but let it happen so he could go to war. Sounds kinda familiar.
 
2007-04-30 05:40:03 PM  
The governments blood lust has no end. Check out this.
Unfastened Coins
 
2007-04-30 05:41:41 PM  
crypto: Lying? No, I think truthers are generally sincere, if somewhat deluded.

And I give Bush a free pass on 9/11 because the overwhelming body of evidence says that he wasn't involved and didn't know about this specific attack in advance (yeah, he knew OBL was up to something -- there's a big difference between "this guy is going to do something" and "this guy is going to hijack four planes and blow up important buildings on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 8:45am eastern").

Now, what he has done before and after 9/11 -- a stupid, costly, bloody war, abdridgement of due process, an ever-more powerful, approaching unchecked, executive branch, governmental secrecy, large-scale corruption, incompetent leadership, and dismal economic and social policy -- he doesn't get a free pass for those. He's a horrible, horrible president with serious tyrant potential, and I can't wait to be rid of him.

But he didn't blow up WTC.
 
2007-04-30 05:41:57 PM  
Staypuft_Mushmallow_Manz:

You left out the part about Habeas Corpus being trashed, and how US citizens can now be detained by the government without charges or legal counsel indefinitely.

But that's not the point here, the point is: OMG look at the conspiracy nutjobs run because a road collapsed 1!!!!
 
2007-04-30 05:42:04 PM  
stonicus:

It is debatable what FDR knew and what he could have done about it. We supposidly knew planes were going to be used in attacks..just not when, where, or what.

We had abundant warnings, actually we had soo many warnings people stopped taking it seriously.
 
2007-04-30 05:42:23 PM  
All these 9/11 conspiracy theories later and I'm still of the same opinion: I wish our government really was that efficient and effective. Why must life be as exciting as a Hollywood movie?
 
2007-04-30 05:44:57 PM  
elchip: /worked for John Titor

Radioactive Ass: So you must be getting a kick out of these responses.

No, but he will be.
 
2007-04-30 05:45:02 PM  
SusanIvanova, I don't think GW blew up the WTCs. I think his FBI deliberately whistled and looked the other way while our enemies plotted.

Why would they do this? Incompetence is what people here seem to believe. I'm not so sure, given the amount of money involved in having a new military industrial paradigm, readymade on cue to replace lucrative Cold War spending.
 
2007-04-30 05:45:27 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

all of those horrible things you have brought up that Bush has done since 9/11 has nothing to do with proving that bush was directly or indirectly involved in 9/11

He seized the opportunity to push through legislation like any politician would have done. But none of that has ANYTHING to do with 9/11 being a conspiracy. That only gives weight to potential motivation but not proof that it was a conspiracy the way the truthers like to fabricate it was.
 
2007-04-30 05:47:26 PM  
I agree with tweekster, nothing Bush has done post-9/11 point to wether he did or didn't do anything on 9/11... but it does point to whether he is idealogically capable of it, or capable of turning a blind eye to it, and it points to Hell Yes!
 
2007-04-30 05:48:04 PM  
tweekster:
"all of those horrible things you have brought up that Bush has done since 9/11 has nothing to do with proving that bush was directly or indirectly involved in 9/11

He seized the opportunity to push through legislation like any politician would have done. But none of that has ANYTHING to do with 9/11 being a conspiracy. That only gives weight to potential motivation but not proof that it was a conspiracy the way the truthers like to fabricate it was."

But sweetheart, 9-11 was a conspiracy. You're just on the side that believes that Bush and his associates version of the conspiracy is the correct one. And this in spite of all the rest of his shady dealings.
 
2007-04-30 05:49:43 PM  
cryptozoophiliac

Did the FBI have reason to give the evidence about plane hijackings more credence and a closer look than all of the other business it has to attend to? Sometimes they probably have more leads than they can run down. Somebody chose the wrong ones for extra attention. It's tragic, but it's not a plot. They get a lot of unfiltered data, and each analyst is a petty king of his own little bureaucratic kingdom, each convinced that his data is the more important, and each vying for the attention of the superiors. It's a lot of crap to sort through for the FBI to find that one lead that might have prevented the whole thing.
 
2007-04-30 05:49:47 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

I now know for a fact you have never dealt with the FBI. They one of the most incompetent and bureaucratic organizations ever designed not to mention the mentality in that organization of never stepping out of the group think dynamic.

If you have ever seen the FBI in action you would realize just how laughable your statement is: "I think his FBI deliberately whistled and looked the other way while our enemies plotted."
 
2007-04-30 05:50:17 PM  
elchip just owns this thread. SO farking funny!!! :)
 
2007-04-30 05:50:25 PM  
Have we gotten to the stage of the thread where the whackjobs outnumber the semi-sane people?

/Let me know, that is my favorite part
 
2007-04-30 05:53:01 PM  
Truther = "Gullible & Ignorant"

Bottom Line.
 
2007-04-30 05:53:30 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

you have yet to point out anything concrete or credible. Everytime someone prompts you to pinpoint something exact, you just rant about how evil bush is and what he has done after 9/11

Point out something specific that implicates bush in a very clear manner. not just an assertion, an accusation etc. but something tangible or REAL.
 
2007-04-30 05:53:37 PM  
I'm not too interested in the details that large conspiracy theorist embroider their fantasies with anymore. I just want to hear their answer to the ONE QUESTION(tm).
And the ONE QUESTION(tm) applies to all large conspiracy theories, not just 9/11.
We are not all experts in metallurgy, ballistics, physics - all the technical fields whose expertise might come into play in evaluating these events - but we are all experts in one thing - human nature. We have all been studying it since the day we were born. And that brings me to the ONE QUESTIONJ(tm):
Your "theory" (Kennedy, 9/11, you name it) is incredibly complex. It would have required the complicity of hundreds, maybe thousands of people. We all know damn well, and have since we were five, that the human being who can keep a secret for any significant length of time is a rarity. And yet, with all the years(or decades) that have elapsed since the event, NOT A SINGLE ONE of these conspirators has blabbed. Not one. How is this even remotely possible? How statistically improbable does something have to be before you reject it as an explanation?
 
2007-04-30 05:54:58 PM  
StayPuft:
"Did the FBI have reason to give the evidence about plane hijackings more credence and a closer look than all of the other business it has to attend to? Sometimes they probably have more leads than they can run down. Somebody chose the wrong ones for extra attention. It's tragic, but it's not a plot. They get a lot of unfiltered data, and each analyst is a petty king of his own little bureaucratic kingdom, each convinced that his data is the more important, and each vying for the attention of the superiors. It's a lot of crap to sort through for the FBI to find that one lead that might have prevented the whole thing."


Go and research the subject and get back to me if you are truly interested. I'm in awe of those who casually dismiss Sibil Edmonds, as if allegations of spying at the FBI are no big deal.
 
2007-04-30 05:57:20 PM  
9/11 was another example of the "perfect crime". Much like the O.J. murders. Allow me to explain. Nicole and Ron Goldman were killed in a robbery. But to cover up the robbery the murderer made it look like a crime of passion. And in an brilliant move, did not actually take anything. Hence a "perfect crime".

/Or, O.J. did it and so did the Arab hijackers.
 
2007-04-30 05:58:56 PM  
As a bar of thermite, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2007-04-30 05:58:56 PM  
crypto:The FBI is a great big bureaucracy, and most of its staff stay on from one administration to the other -- it's therefore resistant to quick change. Bush had been in power less than eight months on 9/11. If rank and file FBIers were ignoring data about a pending attack during the run-up to it, it's highly unlikely Bush had anything to do with it.

Perhaps it's more likely, with all the millions of communications they intercept, it's really really damn hard to tell what's important and what's not without the benefit of hindsight which we now, in fact, have.
 
2007-04-30 05:59:00 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

Look. I have to leave in a minute. Could you please just blame the Jews for 9-11 and get it over with? You'll feel better. You'll feel a tremendous weight lifted off your broad, broad shoulders. You've carried a heavy load, my friend, a heavy load.
 
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