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(911Blogger)   Panicky 9/11 truth nutjobs debate Oakland gas tanker incident, see their WTC conspiracy theories collapse as quickly as that highway did   ( 911blogger.com) divider line
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19551 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2007 at 3:55 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-30 04:26:14 PM  
elchip rules Internet with an iron fist. Thread OVER.

/Plus, he's a nerd.
 
2007-04-30 04:26:22 PM  
Lajaunie, thanks for the cut and paste directly from Alex Jone's web site.

heh
 
2007-04-30 04:26:29 PM  
Herr Konditioner, why don't you ask an actual, qualified structural engineer to answer your questions instead of making up childish fantasies? One thing the Loose Change liars never do: ask an ACTUAL expert to explain things they don't understand.
 
2007-04-30 04:26:53 PM  
Hilarious! My comfortable view of US governmental power has now been validated, once again I can relax in to the warm tub that is my trust of my leaders, while mocking any who discomfort me with their uncomfortable observations.


War forever! Vote Giuliani, he swore his party could protect us from the next "incident". That's what I'm looking for: "PROTECTION". Dig?
 
2007-04-30 04:26:55 PM  
img102.imageshack.us

where did they come from? indians??
 
2007-04-30 04:27:03 PM  
I saw a Frontline special where the engineer that designed the structure of the towers explained the weaknesses in the design and how the burning fuel melted the steel.

Please tell the the conspiracy theorists don't really believe that crap. It's just a laugh, right? Or a desire to be irritating? Or a political statement?
 
2007-04-30 04:27:18 PM  
orclover: I heard from a very reliable source that there were no j00's anywhere near the overpass when the tanker exploded....

Where was Tatsuma yesterday?
 
2007-04-30 04:27:32 PM  
9) The Death Star had planet-destroying capabilities, as it had previously demostrated with the complete annihilation of the planet of Alderaan. Yet it did not utilize that power to remove the planet of Yavin, which would have provided the Death Star with an unobstructed shot of the moon which housed the rebel base. Instead, the order was given to wait until the Death Star could orbit around Yavin until a clear shot was available. This gave the rebel fighters enough time to mount its successful attack against the Death Star

Because the Death Star was ORBITING Yavin, its destruction would have changed the local gravity situation, with unspecified effects on the death star. Had the Death Star been out of orbit and safely away from the gravity well, it could have destroyed it safely. Also, destroying Yavin would have alerted the rebel fighters to the Empires presence and given them time to attack. Stealth is best in these circumstances.
 
2007-04-30 04:28:06 PM  
Article farked by high government officials. Mulder and Scully, where are you?
 
2007-04-30 04:28:20 PM  
Once again, this steel melted so quickly because it was produced on the west coast. Much like sourdough, conditions have to be just right for it to be good, hard steel. This is becoming tragically apparent on bridges and structures all over the west, as this steel has an approximate melting point of 160oF.
 
2007-04-30 04:28:45 PM  
If fire doesn't melt steel, how do we get it into the shape of beams?
 
2007-04-30 04:28:50 PM  
1) if the US Gov't was insidious and competent enough to pull off the murder of 3000 of its own citizens without leaving anything more than trace bits of questionable "evidence," couldn't they make your pimply ass disappear after giving you Excedrin Headache #357? In other words, if you believed the Government "did" 9/11, the rational thing to do would be to cower in your basement and pretend that you don't know anything.

2)if fire never melts steel, what are steel mills for? Are they secret parties for members of the conspiracy?

And was the end of Terminator 2 a lie?????


Or maybe Rosie thinks that in steel mills they melt the steel via giant electrical wire heaters, like a great big toaster. Or magic. But not fire, or any form of fire.

Rosie: A blacksmith can make steel hot enough to bend easily in a tiny fire he makes in his forge. And he doesn't even need tons and tons of jet fuel, just coal and some bellows.
 
2007-04-30 04:29:33 PM  
Having driven ontop of an overpass on some part of the United States' highway system;
I'm getting a real kick out of these replies.


On an unrelated note. Rock, Paper, and Sciccors have all fled California for thier lives, having realized, at last, that Fire will kill them all.
 
2007-04-30 04:30:44 PM  
Herr Konditioner


In the case of the 2 towers, the fires were much weaker and far less hot.


Proof? Two airliners with fuel tanks full of jet fuel produced fires that weren't as hot as that which resulted from a tanker full of gasoline under an open bridge (exposed to air currents on all sides)? Huh?


Why did all of the columns fail at the exact same time and the building neatly collapsed into its own footprint? Finally, explain the third building - building 7.


The columns failed around the same time because it was a cascading failure. As each column warps and gives (because the strength of steel decreases rapidly as heat is applied...doesn't need to liquify...just warp) the stress is multiplied on the remaining load bearing structures. These structures, presented with larger and larger loads, failed rapidly in turn.

As for falling into its own footprint, first of all if you'd ever seen the site you'd know that was hardly true and secondly all that mass isn't going to easily tip over...gravity pulls it downward and there was no where near enough lateral force or deflection to steer it in another direction.
 
2007-04-30 04:31:19 PM  
platypusjones: where did they come from? indians??

That's what Bush wants you to think. He's always trying to frame minorities.
 
2007-04-30 04:31:27 PM  
MrToast: Please tell the the conspiracy theorists don't really believe that crap. It's just a laugh, right? Or a desire to be irritating? Or a political statement?

All of the above?
 
2007-04-30 04:31:31 PM  
Fire can't melt steel?

How did all those medieval swords get made? They certainly didn't have any modern technology to heat it.
 
2007-04-30 04:32:17 PM  
How did all those medieval swords get made? They certainly didn't have any modern technology to heat it.

A wizard did it.
 
2007-04-30 04:32:18 PM  
You know, 9-11 really hit close to home, in both the figurative and literal sense, but I damned near pissed myself at the hulk hogan pictures....
 
2007-04-30 04:32:42 PM  
lajaunie: "2. Those 200 foot flames were acting on a single support truss that was fastened to the two columns. That truss (and the connectors that fastened it to the columns) represent a quantity of steel that doesn't even equal 1/50th of what would have been found on a single floor of the towers or WTC7. So again, far more heat focused on 1/50th the steel."

And no other flammable materials to hand, whereas the WTC was packed with other flammable materials.

And an unloaded section of overpass - the only thing sitting on it was the truck that was on fire, and most of the weight that had been in that was spilled and burnt off - yet still the overpass collapsed when it was basically completely unloaded.

And the overpass itself was completely undamaged, *except* for the fire damage - whereas each WTC tower had significant structural damage from the unexpected high-speed ingress of a commercial passenger jet.

But, you know, feel free to pick and choose only the facts that seem to support your story, while ignoring everything else.

"4. You'll notice that the concrete roadway that "pancaked down" on the roadway below did not cause the lower freeway to collapse. Nor has the concrete disintegrated into a fine powder."

You'll also notice that the concrete roadway didn't have the weight of dozens of fully loaded floors above it bearing down on it (and adding significant momentum with which to help it pancake the floors below).

You'll further notice that roadways are not built in the same way as buildings (they tend to have rather thicker concrete than the average skyscraper wall, for one thing).

You'll continue by noticing that the roadway didn't have a good thousand feet to fall, smacking into many other roadways on its way down to meet the ground and giving it the opportunity to really get beat up and pulverised.

"5. You'll notice the columns were not torn down by the collapse, nor did they evaporate into thin air, rather they are still standing (having only lost the the truss and connectors that held the roadway to them.)"

You'll also notice that the columns aren't over a thousand feet tall, and didn't have the debris from a collapsing building smashing into them to destroy most of their height.
 
2007-04-30 04:33:21 PM  
Bill_Wick's_Friend: A wizard did it.

Well the Lady in the Lake helped...
 
2007-04-30 04:33:26 PM  
How did all those medieval swords get made? They certainly didn't have any modern technology to heat it.

Christendom's blades were forged by the Glory and Grace of Almighty God.

Everyone else hammered theirs out in the Fires of Hell, which are by definition supernatural fires, and therefore don't count.
 
2007-04-30 04:33:40 PM  
Herr Konditioner

Why did all of the columns fail at once?

They didn't. They failed in successive order as mass, increasing with each floor's collapse by a factor of that equal to an entire floor, slammed down onto them from above.

Why did it collapse into it's own neat footprint?

Are you seriously this stupid? Because the j00s turned on the machine that makes gravity pull in a straight line toward the center of the Earth, unlike other days when the machine is being serviced.
 
2007-04-30 04:33:52 PM  
Because the Death Star was ORBITING Yavin, its destruction would have changed the local gravity situation, with unspecified effects on the death star.

Actually, because of conservation of momentum and mass, the gravity of the debris cluster formally known as Yavin would exhibit the same gravity effects on the Death Star as Yavin itself. Therefore there was no reason to not shoot through Yavin, unless Lord Vader wanted the Death Star destroyed by the rebels so his buddies could get more high paying government contracts to build another Death Star.

What else did Lord Vader know? Anyone who disagrees with me is a sheeple.
 
2007-04-30 04:35:42 PM  
The theory that the towers were brought down by something other than the planes probably doesn't hold much water, but such implausibility hardly dismisses plenty of other discrepancies about the official story of September 11th.
 
2007-04-30 04:35:49 PM  
narstoi.com
 
2007-04-30 04:36:15 PM  
SusanIvananova: "Did Bush make 9/11 happen by shooting a missile at the Pentagon, claiming it was a plane, throwing two actual planes at WTC but have the destruction accomplished by explosives cached within the buildings, shooting down a flight over rural Pennsylvania, and fabricating several reams of records? No. Don't be a dumbass."

Don't you be the dumbass. Why not be a citizen and look in to why your FBI was ignoring its own agents' warnings in the run up to the attacks, why those incompetents were promoted, why FBI whistleblowers have been gagged, why FEMA was given control over the crime scene, why Congress was asked to limit the investigation, why said investigation was underfunded, why the National Security Advisor seemed to know nothing about terrorists and their tactics, why the defining attack of the 21st Century just happened to occur when US air defenses were compromised by extensive drills, etc.

No tinfoil hat needed. Just a desire not to see a great country go down the tubes thanks to a gang of greedy, venal sociopaths.
 
2007-04-30 04:36:30 PM  
You know what I've never had a "truther" explain to me?

If 9/11 was a government job where GWB masterminded a plan to plant explosives in the two towers, plus more in WTC 7, then fire a missile into the Pentagon and finally kamikaze another airliner in order to gain public sympathy so he could start a war with Iraq...

Why didn't he plant WMD's in downtown Baghdad?
 
2007-04-30 04:36:30 PM  
Notice there weren't any Jews around when it happened? Hmm?
 
2007-04-30 04:37:03 PM  
elchip: Other possible theories:

WAS IT BARACK OBAMA?


Is this an actual wikipedia entry?!
 
2007-04-30 04:38:38 PM  
Because the Death Star was ORBITING Yavin, its destruction would have changed the local gravity situation, with unspecified effects on the death star.

yes - but the deathstar was outside Yavin's Roche radius.

(just playing along)
 
2007-04-30 04:39:30 PM  
For those who don't understand the pancake theory, observe the following diagram:
i21.photobucket.com
 
2007-04-30 04:40:50 PM  
Diamond Dave: "If 9/11 was a government job where GWB masterminded a plan to plant explosives in the two towers, plus more in WTC 7, then fire a missile into the Pentagon and finally kamikaze another airliner in order to gain public sympathy so he could start a war with Iraq...

Why didn't he plant WMD's in downtown Baghdad?"

Diamond Dave, this isn't a Hollywood Movie, where you are either a good guy or a bad guy.

First of all, Bush et al really thought Sadaam had WMDs, since their cronies sold him said WMDs in the 1980s.

Next, Bush wouldn't have had to plan anything regarding 9-11. His Saudi buddies could have taken care of all the details. Don't hear too much about who funded that little operation, do ya?
 
2007-04-30 04:40:53 PM  
Donald_McRonald: observe the following diagram:

It all makes sense now...
 
2007-04-30 04:41:19 PM  
DiamondDave: Why didn't he plant WMD's in downtown Baghdad?

Seems simple enough for the mastermind that came up with the tower caper. Yet, somehow, the operatives couldn't quite pull it off, even with the resources of the entire government to hand, on something the administration would dearly love to prove. Wait, they didn't want to flush out Bin Laden too soon. WTF?
 
2007-04-30 04:41:35 PM  
cryptozoophiliac
Don't you be the dumbass. Why not be a citizen and look in to why your FBI was ignoring its own agents' warnings in the run up to the attacks, why those incompetents were promoted, why FBI whistleblowers have been gagged, why FEMA was given control over the crime scene, why Congress was asked to limit the investigation, why said investigation was underfunded, why the National Security Advisor seemed to know nothing about terrorists and their tactics, why the defining attack of the 21st Century just happened to occur when US air defenses were compromised by extensive drills, etc.


And herein lies one of the flaws with government conspiracy theories. Pretty soon, the conspriacry is so big that it involves roughly 100,000 people, but no one involved ever comes forward.

The government can't even pick up my trash correctly, I doubt they could pull this off.
 
2007-04-30 04:42:26 PM  
cryptozoophiliac:

Of course. Because believing that Bushies are not guilty of this particular charge is exactly the same thing as wholeheartedly supporting their agenda. Obviously.

I don't think you did 9/11, either. Does that mean I'm a mindless sheeple slave of Lord Crypto?
 
2007-04-30 04:43:11 PM  
SusanIvanova: Did Bush make 9/11 happen

by ignoring all warnings and intelligence in the preceding months? Maybe.
 
2007-04-30 04:43:52 PM  
DiamondDave: Why didn't he plant WMD's in downtown Baghdad?

If your not convinced by the mountains of facts and science that the 9/11 truthers are nutjobs, this seals the deal. It would be infinitely easier to plant WMDs in Iraq than to pull off the 9/11 conspiracy the nuts claimed happened.
 
2007-04-30 04:45:01 PM  
Just so that everyone knows, burning jet fuel is more than capable of melting steel. I've taken part in around two dozen jet engine failure investigations (really getting a kick out of these replies) and I've seen many superalloys with much higher heat tolerances than conventional steels charred, melted, and mangled beyond almost all recognition by jet fuel. Also, you don't need to melt steel in order to collapse a structure. Even at as low as half the melting point of most metals you see a major drop in many load-bearing properties which could easily cause fracture.

So in conclusion, the "steel doesn't melt that low" conspiracy theorists are retards, which I'm sure you already knew.

/Materials Engineer
 
2007-04-30 04:45:03 PM  
shipofthesun: Wait, they didn't want to flush out Bin Laden too soon. WTF?

He was hanging on to him in a secret prison until late October 2004 to win the election...
 
2007-04-30 04:45:17 PM  
img239.imageshack.us

My official, very sad, entry

/woo mspaint!
 
2007-04-30 04:45:25 PM  
why FEMA was given control over the crime scene

Do you even know what FEMA is an acronym for?
 
2007-04-30 04:45:33 PM  
Rapmaster2000, you eediot, all the government had to do in this case was 1. have foreknowledge and 2. nothing. I think they were and are capable of that much.

And SusanIvanova, I did indeed do 9-11 by reading Illuminatus! out of sequence the night before.
 
2007-04-30 04:45:35 PM  
cryptozoophiliac

FBI was ignoring its own agents' warnings in the run up to the attacks, why those incompetents were promoted, why FBI whistleblowers have been gagged

Nobody ever accused the FBI of being compitant.

why FEMA was given control over the crime scene

It's not expected for the emergency management agency to be given control over an emergency?

why Congress was asked to limit the investigation, why said investigation was underfunded, why the National Security Advisor seemed to know nothing about terrorists and their tactics

Investigations are irrelevant to the political favor that Bush was able to get from the situation. Why bother?


why the defining attack of the 21st Century just happened to occur when US air defenses were compromised by extensive drills, etc.

How often did extensive drills happen? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? I bet there were "extensive drills" happening on a regular basis. The fact that a drill coincides with the attack, in itself, means nothing.

No tinfoil hat needed. Just a desire not to see a great country go down the tubes thanks to a gang of greedy, venal sociopaths.

Without some concrete facts, it sounds pretty finfoil-hattish to me. Its one thing to ask questions, its another to draw conclusions.
 
2007-04-30 04:45:46 PM  
cryptozoophiliac: Don't you be the dumbass. Why not be a citizen and look in to why your FBI was ignoring its own agents' warnings in the run up to the attacks, why those incompetents were promoted, why FBI whistleblowers have been gagged, why FEMA was given control over the crime scene, why Congress was asked to limit the investigation, why said investigation was underfunded, why the National Security Advisor seemed to know nothing about terrorists and their tactics, why the defining attack of the 21st Century just happened to occur when US air defenses were compromised by extensive drills, etc.

I could hope to laugh harder... but then I would kill puppys if I did.
 
2007-04-30 04:46:01 PM  
From blog server: "Note: Due to server load comments may dissapear during periods of high load."

Hmmm... this is the first time high server load has ever caused comments to dissapear. Something fishy here.

/still trying to get over it
 
2007-04-30 04:46:39 PM  
Where are the Farking engineers? You "melted steel" Farkers are simply ignorant. What is all this shiat about 2700degF?

Standard structural steel starts to soften at about 950degF. It doesn't have to melt. A pool of Gasoline will sustain temperatures of up to 1300degF in open air burning, more than enough to soften the freeway support structure,
 
2007-04-30 04:46:44 PM  
One thing nobody seems to point out is that (and I'm going to ever let them believe that fire can't melt steel... even though it can... ask a blacksmith) the steel in the twin towers didn't have to "MELT". It just had to weaken enough from a jet-liner flying though it and an uncontrolable jet-fuel stoked fire raging in it for the steal to not be able to support the weight above it.

Buildings collapse all the time... not because steel "melted", but becaude the support structures became too weak to do their jobs.

By the way dude, did you notice that black helicopter flying around near your house lately? you'd better get down into the basement for a while.
 
2007-04-30 04:46:45 PM  
Nightjars, why don't you go do a gis for Sibil Edmonds and then get back to me.
 
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