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(Sports by Brooks)   Los Angeles Times sportswriter announces he is transsexual and will change his name to Christine. Seriously   (sportsbybrooks.com) divider line 168
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14280 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2007 at 12:45 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-26 02:37:10 PM  
Well it grosses me out and I think it's totally farked up. But hey, if you've got some wires crossed and this will make you happy, go for it.

/would not hit it
 
2007-04-26 02:37:34 PM  
Dayum. She most be miserable to shell out that kinda dough.

Plau, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's not a particularly pleasant process, either. that's GOTTA hurt.
 
2007-04-26 02:39:16 PM  
Arman N. Havana:
The issue is that even if we can't be completely physically female, we completely don't want to be physically male. Are you saying a woman who has had a hysterectomy is incomplete and should thus hate herself? Post-op gets rid of a physical day-to-day reminder and source of frustration and pain. And the end result, though we can't have kids, still can function well for... recreational purposes?
 
2007-04-26 02:42:44 PM  
Arman N. Havana: Even if you are a "woman trapped in a man's body," I don't get wanting to be a defective female.

Simple. She's not a guy. You were lucky enough to be born with your brain matching your bits. You are a guy, both brain and body. That is why you don't understand.

It's not a want, just who we are. We don't like the testosterone damage any more than you do.

Sometimes it's bad, sometimes not so bad, it depends on the amount and time of testosterone exposure.

But there's still very little choice involved, either way.
 
2007-04-26 02:43:55 PM  
The one person I've seen go through this didn't end up any happier. They sent an email out to everyone at work, introducing the "new" person, and generally tried to force their new persona into established social groups (office cliques) that shehe was not a member of to begin with. Nobody cared and desperate for attention, this person began acting out with daily tantrums, and general emotional freakouts.

Maybe an isolated case since the person in question didn't have many friends (at least at work) to begin with, but seems pretty standard with the apparent happiness level of some of the people I see dealing with this problem in various D-HC programs on TV.

I hope this reporter and people like "her" get out of life what they're looking for, but I suspect that the gender mixup issue is as much a symptom of emotional problems as a cause and happiness will be elusive for most of these people. Especially those that make it into adulthood before they can get their situation "corrected".
 
2007-04-26 02:46:29 PM  
Whatever makes a person happy... it's none of my business. But I reserve the right to be made queasy at the idea of someone's junk getting taken off.
 
2007-04-26 02:48:36 PM  
Arman N. Havana: My point is that unless doctors can do much more miraculous things than I'm aware of, sex-change surgery won't really make this guy into a biological female, but into a defective facsimile of a female. Even if you are a "woman trapped in a man's body," I don't get wanting to be a defective female.

Well, in some sense, MtF TSs think they are already defective females. Why not at least have the outward physical and social appearance of their proper mental gender?
 
2007-04-26 02:49:08 PM  
bring it on, folks - this is nuts. i work with his brother & have known mrs christine for 25 yrs!! i'm gonna wander over to his/hers/it's desk for a shenangians check. unpossible ...
 
2007-04-26 02:49:10 PM  
Daniels

Whatever makes a person happy... it's none of my business. But I reserve the right to be made queasy at the idea of someone's junk getting taken off.


Don't worry, I think every man does...

//I still clenched about it
 
2007-04-26 02:49:59 PM  
Bonehead
Men liking other men is fine. Nothing wrong with saying "I like X". I view transgenderism as a failure to grasp physical reality, mostly you happen to a certain gender as shown by physical organs yet consider yourself to be the other.

mister aj
Very informative. Made me think. I wonder if transgender issues could be treated by being caught early on life. Such as detecting that there is a chemical imbalance shoving the brain in the other direction and providing supplments to make sure the brain aligned with the phyiscal gender during puberty. Looks that field needs a lot more research.
 
2007-04-26 02:54:02 PM  
(Thanks for the TotalFark!)
Atreyou40:
I've known a few people who transitioned and ended up still unhappy after, but I've also known many, myself included, who have found very happy and fulfilling lives.
There's a lot of trauma in repressing yourself so long, and there is something known as the 50/50 rule, which says that 50% of transpeople will attempt suicide. Many hold onto life with the thought that transition will instantly solve all their problems and make everything the way it should be. It's not a magical cureall, though. It simply opens up the door to being yourself.
 
2007-04-26 02:57:34 PM  
ha-ha-guy: So if an evil demon descended upon you while you slept tonight and replaced your ween with a vagoo, you'd just accept it, start wearing skirts, change your name, and all that other wonderful stuff?

How you think, how you act, and how you feel are a lot more important in determining who and what you are than what's between your legs. The only organ that really matters is your brain. Weens and vagoos are just furniture.
 
2007-04-26 02:58:41 PM  
ha-ha-guy

Such as detecting that there is a chemical imbalance shoving the brain in the other direction and providing supplments to make sure the brain aligned with the phyiscal gender during puberty.

Another slippery slope. The "cure" for gayness and transexuality is already being pushed by fundies. Personally I think it's wrong simply because they are doing it not out of a sense of fixing any medical issues, but because gay/trans/*different* = evil. I think I'd rather they dealt with the issues after birth then screw with the chemicals during development...

//But at least the fundies now admit you're born that way
 
2007-04-26 03:02:34 PM  
Espera: Arman N. Havana:
The issue is that even if we can't be completely physically female, we completely don't want to be physically male. Are you saying a woman who has had a hysterectomy is incomplete and should thus hate herself? Post-op gets rid of a physical day-to-day reminder and source of frustration and pain. And the end result, though we can't have kids, still can function well for... recreational purposes?



I'm not saying anyone should hate himself/herself. It just seems to me that if you had a normal healthy male body, it would be preferable to keep it and wear a dress or whatever than spend such huge amounts of money and go through such awful surgery, etc. only to get 80% (or whatever) of the way toward being a woman. If someone wants to do it, that's his/her business -- I just don't get it.

And while I obviously don't know, it doesn't seem to me that it would be surgically possible to make the new parts function for "recreational purposes" the way women's parts usually do. Heck, most women with OEM genitals can't get them to function for recreational purposes as consistently as most men.
 
2007-04-26 03:04:06 PM  
Sports figures are known to be the most open minded persons around too... Lucky to keep his/her job for 6 months.

/que the deep breathy voice... jeez
 
2007-04-26 03:05:34 PM  
Atreyou40


The one person I've seen go through this didn't end up any happier. They sent an email out to everyone at work, introducing the "new" person, and generally tried to force their new persona into established social groups (office cliques) that shehe was not a member of to begin with. Nobody cared and desperate for attention, this person began acting out with daily tantrums, and general emotional freakouts.

An incredibly common occurrence amongst transsexuals, sadly. Most tend to force their change upon others without any care and then react forcibly when they're not accepted. It tends to result in a rather negative view of transsexuals in general.

Maybe an isolated case since the person in question didn't have many friends (at least at work) to begin with, but seems pretty standard with the apparent happiness level of some of the people I see dealing with this problem in various D-HC programs on TV.

Starting the transition requires a fairly intense social support network. Many transsexuals receive inadequate counseling and lack the structure to really survive. They find that after the surgery their life is not any better, they still have no friends and now they're in debt up to their ears.

I hope this reporter and people like "her" get out of life what they're looking for, but I suspect that the gender mixup issue is as much a symptom of emotional problems as a cause and happiness will be elusive for most of these people.

For some, it is indeed a result of emotional problems that stem back to their childhood. Others, like myself, were born inter-sexed and had our gender forced upon us. Still more have chemical imbalances in the mind. The causes for transsexuality are varied and I firmly believe that not all of them require Sexual Reassignment Surgery to correct the issue.

Especially those that make it into adulthood before they can get their situation "corrected".

Some of us have to wait until adulthood. I confronted my parents about certain physical deformities that I had when I was younger and they insisted that I was "born only as a male". Now I'm 27 and, not surprisingly, it turns out that I was born with female genitalia that was removed by surgery. It happens pretty frequently, sadly.

/Transsexual
//Healthy
///Happy
////Married.
 
2007-04-26 03:06:23 PM  
You can say: "The batter has two balls on him"
but you can't say: "I think he hurt his balls on that one Tony, don't you"?

/George Carlin
//When he was still funny, maybe 35 years ago.
///Now, just a bitter old man. Too bad about that.
 
2007-04-26 03:07:26 PM  
she won't be doing sports anymore, so the locker room queries etc are moot...
 
2007-04-26 03:10:29 PM  
:-\ Might hit it now, probably not later.
 
2007-04-26 03:17:04 PM  
I've always been disappointed with the "don't tread on me" approach to difference, especially gender differences. Trans' issues in particular seem to trigger the bigoted behaviour most people don't believe they exhibit because they are educated, stable, or "civilized". An individual does something you can't fathom and one immediately declares, "you do whatever you want, but come near me and I'll punch you in the face and feel perfectly justified in doing so". THAT baffles me.

So few bodies fit across the strict gender guidelines of, specifically, American culture. Women get masectomies and hystorectomies and go through a terrible time (sometimes) about still feeling like a women. Men can be born with Androgen Insenstivity and develop hyper-feminine qualities. And those are extremes where medical science and psychology intervene and speak about in support (though not always). If you don't have something wrong with you in the strictest medical sense, you experience uncomfortability with your gender presentation and feel the need to conform.

Luckily, even though most of our culture is insensitive to gender differences, a lot of individuals still get a life experience where they are able to make really tough choices with the goal of being happier or comfortable. The two aren't mutually exclusive, either.
 
2007-04-26 03:17:35 PM  
homosexual man

:-\ Might hit it now, probably not later.


Can I be the first one to say...well duh...
 
2007-04-26 03:18:05 PM  
So if an evil demon descended upon you while you slept tonight and replaced your ween with a vagoo, you'd just accept it, start wearing skirts, change your name, and all that other wonderful stuff?

I can think of something else I'd probably do for an hour.

/or two.
 
2007-04-26 03:19:06 PM  
Bonehead
Well first off I want to seperate homosexual desires and gender issues. Homosexual desires show you happen to like one thing, transgender issues are caused be a clear chemical imbalance. The fact that a guy likes another guy is not caused by a chemical imbalance.

Clearly we lack a full understanding of how homosexuality comes to occur. My personal theory is everyone is born as a fairly blank slate, they may strongly lean one way or the other at birth but I feel that upbringing does help shape one's gender. To me, at least, a guy being attracted to another guy is no different than a guy who has the jungle fever. Somehow they were shaped to find a certain body type and look pleasing.

While I buy into the concept of a rainbow of sexual preferences I do not buy into the concept of a rainboe of gender's. With the exception of some genetic mutations, ie XY girls, there are two genders and you happened to be born from one of them.

To me gender swapping surgery is not acceptable as a final solution to transgender issues. It may be useful while science works to solve this problem, but even as Espera stated many transgender patients still have issues post surgery. To me the long term solution needs to focus on getting people to accept the fact that their genetic makeup makes them one of two genders.

Maybe I'm a bigot, but I define human society as having two genders, with your gendering being established at birth and unchangable.
 
2007-04-26 03:19:26 PM  
SusanIvanova: How you think, how you act, and how you feel are a lot more important in determining who and what you are than what's between your legs. The only organ that really matters is your brain. Weens and vagoos are just furniture.


I would say just the opposite -- in my experience, men and women are mentally more or less the same. Maybe you can say that men and women mentally trend in certain directions, just like men trend toward being the taller humans and women trend toward being the shorter humans, but that doesn't make a tall woman a man or a short man a woman.

I'm not convinced that there's such a thing as a "female" brain or a "male" brain. I am convinced that there are such things as ovaries and testes and different male and female genitalia. If you naturally have ovaries and a vagina, you're a woman; if you naturally have testes and a penis, you're a man. As far as feeling like your brain is a female brain while your body is biologically male, I don't know how you separate what is a purely mental phenomenon (like feeling like you are really Napoleon, despite what your birth certificate says), and what has a biological basis.

If people like this sports guy want to have the surgery and it makes them happy, more power to them. It's really none of my business. But I have trouble with the whole theory that he's really a woman's brain trapped in a man's body so the appropriate solution is to fill him up with female hormones and surgically alter his secondary male sex characteristics. It just doesn't make much sense to me.
 
2007-04-26 03:23:52 PM  
*continues blathering at the wall*
 
2007-04-26 03:29:53 PM  
ha-ha-guy
Maybe I'm a bigot, but I define human society as having two genders, with your gendering being established at birth and unchangable.

With that whole argument, you've just invalidated mixed-gendered and hermaphrodites. These people are born with both, a mixture, or nothing at all. They are not strictly male or female, and forcing them to be one or the other only does harm. Transsexual and transgendered people are similar, in the fact that their body does not match watch they're mind is telling them. True, it would be nice to have a society where everyone is accepted for who they are regardless and maybe not all would seek surgery, but some still would. But still...it's not right to force one view of things onto other people just because you believe there is only male and female and nothing else...
 
2007-04-26 03:29:54 PM  
Transexuals are for the most part hideous to look at. I don't have a problem with transexuals, just hideous looking people.
 
2007-04-26 03:30:19 PM  
nullandvoid

In seriousness, isn't your situation entirely different? You were born with both, they tossed a coin and picked the wrong one. Isn't that entirely different than someone who's born with one set of stuff and thinks they should have another?

I think most people would have an easier time understanding your situation then the other.
 
2007-04-26 03:36:02 PM  
Daniels: I think most people would have an easier time understanding your situation then the other.

True. But it's basically the same thing! Studies (which I unfortunately don't have links to right now) are finding that the brain does sexually differentiate. Usually at a certain time, according to hormone levels in the womb.

It's speculated that maybe brain development is more sensitive to the imbalance than the genitals. So transsexuals are also intersexed, just not by outward appearance.
 
2007-04-26 03:38:43 PM  
Par for the course at the L.A. Times.

What a ridiculous rag.
 
2007-04-26 03:43:46 PM  
nullandvoid: It's speculated that maybe brain development is more sensitive to the imbalance than the genitals. So transsexuals are also intersexed, just not by outward appearance.

The rumor is that Adult Gender Dysphoria is being delisted from the upcoming DSM-V (that's what, 2009?) and because child gender dysphoria has been used by the wrong sorts of psychologists to try and "treat" homosexuality in kids, it's getting some revisions as well. Not that it's going to make anyone more accepting, but it is certainly a start.

/also TG
//it sucks being TG
///I wish I wasn't TG
////but... oh well
 
2007-04-26 03:46:49 PM  
I say good for her!

/Wonders if it is an elaborate plot to comply with gender quota minimums... "Okay boys, if we're not hiring any women, whoever draws the long straw has to have a sex change."
 
2007-04-26 03:47:33 PM  
Useless without pictures....

apse.dallasnews.com
Los Angeles Times sportswriter

announces he is transsexual

www.bbc.co.uk

and will change his name to
content.answers.com
Christine.

www.buddytv.com
Seriously.
 
2007-04-26 03:51:55 PM  
An SBB link? Christine???

Oh. Not the good Christine. Damn.

images.sportsbybrooks.com
 
2007-04-26 03:52:30 PM  
While I buy into the concept of a rainbow of sexual preferences I do not buy into the concept of a rainboe of gender's. With the exception of some genetic mutations, ie XY girls, there are two genders and you happened to be born from one of them.

Many in the mental health profession would disagree. There are instances in which both homosexuals and transsexuals possess a chemical brain structure similar to their opposite sex.

To me gender swapping surgery is not acceptable as a final solution to transgender issues. It may be useful while science works to solve this problem, but even as Espera stated many transgender patients still have issues post surgery.

I'd suggest you not have a 'gender swapping surgery then. Those of us that do choose that route should have every right to do so. To be perfectly frank, it's none of your god damn business.

Many of those who do pursue Sexual Reassignment Surgery do so without adequate counseling or preparation. They just save up $9k and jet off to Thailand, only to find that such a surgery is not what they needed. What is necessary is a more thorough screening process.

To me the long term solution needs to focus on getting people to accept the fact that their genetic makeup makes them one of two genders.

Having them "accept" their plight is ridiculous. Transsexuality is a birth defect, an error in children that occurs when they are born. There are instances of individuals who have this problem due to emotional trauma as children and in that case, counseling should be sufficient. Those who have an actual chemical imbalance may require SRS surgery.

Maybe I'm a bigot, but I define human society as having two genders, with your gendering being established at birth and unchangable.

That's not bigoted, but it is a definition that many, myself included, would disagree with. You're entitled to it, but kindly keep your opinion away from my body and my choices. :-)
 
2007-04-26 03:53:25 PM  
CtrlAltDelete:

Yes, I'm so glad. =)

Do you know what the changes are going to be exactly?
 
2007-04-26 04:01:07 PM  
nullandvoid: Yes, I'm so glad. =)

Do you know what the changes are going to be exactly?


I have read much of the journals for awhile so I don't know the specifics. But the general gist of it is they're looking at making gender dysphoria more of a physiological issue, a birth defect that should be corrected, than a psychological dysphoria; but most likely reccommending psychological intervention to assist with the depression and anxiety associated with deformity (and also to confrom with existing SOC to weed out those who are not truly gender dysphoric: the attention whores who attempt to do it to bring focus on themselves; the "Buffalo Bills" who attempt to do it because of a sexual fetish; and the people who attempt to do it to get a second chance at life or to escape.)

It's not likely to allow the Health Law standards of care enter in to US/Canada/Western Europe hormonal and surgical treatment, unfortunately. The Benjamin SOC are probably going to be here for a while.

So until 2009, we're still all lunatics.
 
2007-04-26 04:05:23 PM  
nullandvoid: But it's basically the same thing! Studies (which I unfortunately don't have links to right now) are finding that the brain does sexually differentiate.


So can you have a test done to determine if your brain is biologically male or female? It seems like if there were clearly physical differences between men's and women's brains and this could be determined by some physical examination or test, it would clarify whether this guy really should get the surgery or not.

/I once had a boss who got in trouble for telling one of his employees "Stop thinking like a woman!" Maybe he was onto something.
 
2007-04-26 04:07:07 PM  
Svengali4Life: I don't have a problem with transexuals, just hideous looking people.

Hideous people

CtrlAltDelete: So until 2009, we're still all lunatics.

Heh. Well, considering some of the things they've had in there in the past... I thumb my nose in their general direction.
 
2007-04-26 04:14:11 PM  
Reminds me of a joke:

What do you call a nun who's had a sex-change?

A trans-sister!

/I'm outta here!
//Enjoy the veal!
///Don't forget to tip your wait staff!
 
2007-04-26 04:17:25 PM  
Arman N. Havana: So can you have a test done to determine if your brain is biologically male or female?

You can, but it (currently) requires the individual to be quite dead.

Regardless, there are already perfectly good standards of care (Harry Benjamin) in place.

Even if someone with a male brain transitions to female (unlikely), who cares, as long as they're happy and comfortable? It's their body.
 
2007-04-26 04:24:13 PM  
vartian


Congratulations. You are now farky'd as Vagina Love Taco.
 
2007-04-26 04:25:53 PM  
My local MD did the same thing and announced to the world that he is switching teams. I have only seen him in passing once since he started wearing the dresses (definitely hasn't had the final snip-snip), but she (damn specific pronouns) looked better than I expected.

I don't know how he 'practiced' before to make sure since he always had a beard.

/Still wouldn't hit it.
 
2007-04-26 05:51:03 PM  
My truth is that I am a transsexual American?

/Pro athletes freak out to learn that a man with a woman's brain has been looking at their weeners in the locker room?
//But it was a man!
///Not his brain!
////I don't want no woman's brain looking at me!
 
2007-04-26 06:02:44 PM  
The penis mightier than the sword.

The scalpel, on the other hand...
 
2007-04-26 06:20:42 PM  
I wonder how this being accepted compares to Body Integrity Identity Disorder, which from what I can tell, is not widely accepted by the medical community. (Meaning ... they won't cut off your leg if you ask them).
 
2007-04-26 06:43:39 PM  
If people claim they are transgendered M to F and then start wearing a lot of dresses and makeup and uncomfortable underwear, I have to wonder if they really aren't just playing dress up.

I wear dresses maybe 5 times a year and Panty hose only if I'm forced. Makeup for my wedding and occasional eyeliner. Heels as often as the dresses. Stupid things. Garter belts? Never in my life. I am 100% female in both mind and body.

It seems like the TG all have to go weirdly overly feminine. I don't get it.
 
2007-04-26 07:01:02 PM  
espn.go.com

The Worm approves!
 
2007-04-26 07:01:31 PM  
DBD_Smeagol: Any others?

Yeah, shoehorned anal sex references.

/You know they'll be here
//Owl
 
2007-04-26 07:01:59 PM  
Catracks

That's because they're desperate to appear as women. Unfortunately, many completely miss the target. However, there's quite a few that just fit in as ordinary women.

Read She's not there for one account of an ordinary transition. You might be confusing TG's and Drag Queens. (Seriously, sometimes I'd swear every single trans-person gets their own personal label ;)
 
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