"Not to mention there are an enormous amount of men that have no hope of ever getting married because of the lack of females."

This is very true, and will almost certainly lead to big time problems.

2010.

/Be there!
//Aloha.

Don't think so, but I'd love to see china nuked. Seriously. Just for my entertainment. really.

//get in line, I'll hate everyone's guts eventually.

Alcohol was definitely involved when creating this link.

It has nothing to do with Taiwan, etc.

WayneBuckwheat: I'd love to see america nuked. Seriously. Just for my entertainment. really.

How about this, Taiwan capitulates without any war because of internal forces that seek to reunite with the mainland after decades of purchasing U.S. military technology. That stuff then gets reverse engineered on the mainland, closing the gap dramatically between the already narrowing divide between U.S. and Chinese military technology and capabilities.

Tom clancy's critique of the situation, from http://www.taiwanese.com/protest/critiques/TClancy1.html:

"America sell out the ROC on Taiwan?

First, can the PRC hurt the ROC?

People, as I have said twice before, the only way the People's Liberation
Army (PLA) can get to Taiwan is via airliner. For those of you with maps,
the blue part between the Chinese mainland and the island of Taiwan is
water. Deep water. To cross deep water, one needs ships. The PRC navy
(technically the naval service of the PLA) is at least an order of
magnitude too small to support a major raid (ala Dieppe) much less an
Overlord-class invasion. Of all military undertakings, "Combined
Operations" (the use of land, air, and sea power to assault a distant
objective) is by far the most difficult. Were this not the case, Napoleon
would have conquered England, and Hitler would have done the same. The
similarity of the cases is striking. But Hitler and Napoleon DIDN'T, did
they?

Therefore, the PRC can wish, and snarl, and bluster all it wants, but it
CANNOT, on objective fact, land enough troops to cause more than an
annoyance to the ROC, and THAT assumes that the ROC navy is asleep for the
crossing. One is reminded of Bismarck's reply to the possibility that the
British Army would land in Pomerania, on the German Baltic Coast: "I would
send the police to arrest them." All that's going on right now is some
primo training time for the ROC military. This will have them awake and
motivated for years.

Second, what would America do?

There are numerous reasons why America would have no choice but to
respond, but I will ignore the ancillary ones, like trade, tourism, and
the Chinese-American community. Let's concentrate on two: regional
stability and America's global credibility.

A. Regional Stability

When one country knocks over another country in any region of the world,
the other countries in that region necessarily get nervous. Rather like
having a home in your neighborhood burglarized. People start buying guns
and alarm systems. Such a development is just generally bad for everyone.
We have alliances with countries in that area, Japan, the Republic of
Korea, Thailand, for starters. Toss in the ANZUS Treaty. All of those
countries would get nervous, and America is committed by treaty to the
collective defense of the region. All are important trading partners, most
have been allies in war, and all have friendly relations with us. Which
leads us to:

B. America's Credibility

If America does not respond to such an attack here, then, people will ask,
where will she? Failure to react would devalue to zero all of America's
treaty commitments, not to mention the informal understandings we have
with countries which are not formal allies. A nation like America cannot
allow such things to happen, because if such a thing does happen, you are
out of business as a great power. Cicero, when asked how Rome grew great
and powerful (this was under the Roman Republic, remember, not the later
Empire) replied that it wasn't through military power, but through defense
of her allies. Rome was great and powerful because Rome's word was good.
That rule, people, has therefore been around for 2,000 years.

Methodology

Moreover, interfering with such an invasion would be easy, and even
deniable. How to do it? Submarines. Say 3-5 of them in the Formosa Strait
could get into an invasion force, and the havoc would be worthy of Homer
-- plus being something we could deny. Our subs? Not us, Chairman Deng.
The ROCs have subs, too, you know. Sorry about all the ships and troops.
You can display carriers to show resolve. For the serious work, you don't
show anything, and few really appreciate the effect a few nuclear
submarines on the minds of naval commanders, though for a taste of the
idea, look what happened to Argentina in 1982. One (1) shot put their
whole navy alongside and pinned it there. Like Sigourney Weaver's "Alien,"
you don't know where they are until people start dying, and even then
there's damned little you can do about it. Any sub skipper would rather
have an opportunity like this than a weekend in Vegas with Meg Ryan. The
PRC navy would be utterly defenseless against such an attack. Taking candy
from a baby is a difficult assignment in comparison.

In short, if the market value of Taiwanese stock issues falls, go long on
some good ones. The PRC can only hurt the ROC if the Taiwan government
allows it to happen. Whatever threat might exist to the ROC, it is not
physical, but rather psychological, and then only to those who don't know
about the blue ink on the map."

clancy rules.

bolzy

Another proof Fark is full of overgrown juveniles who believe they got it all figured out. Just think for a minute, Taiwan has been thumbing its nose at China for the past 50 years, yes the same China that invaded Tibet, Korea, India, USSR (yes they did in 1969 and got their ass beat in two weeks), Vietnam (invaded in 1979 and came back licking their wounds). So why has China been waiting so long to get back at Taiwan? Because they lack naval power to invade across 150 miles of water. Its very very hard to launch a naval attack, even if you have an army of 2 million men, women and boys.

You are such an idiot. There are many ways to fight wars that do not require moving millions of troops onto Taiwan at the start of the war.

The main reason why China hasn't invaded Taiwan is because Taiwan is full of Chinese.

/you, my friend, are a dumbass

devioustrevor

To be fair it would be easier to defend a small island than a nation 80% the size of Canada or the United States. Cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzen are so heavily populated that a few cruise missles (which Taiwan has and China has no defence against) would cause utter and complete havoc with 10's of thousands of deaths in a matter of seconds.

You are also as deluded as bolzy. Considering the size of China and the number of "cruise missiles" Taiwan has, it wouldn't even make a dent. China's government doesn't give a shiat about losing a few million residents.

Considering the size of Taiwan and the number of missiles currently pointed at them, in one day their economy will come to a halt. Patriot missiles only work when you don't run out of them. Taiwan is also densely populated, and with a small country, it is much easier to destroy their infrastructure.

Then if China deploys more nuclear submarines and use their nuclear advantage to keep the US from entering the war, they can effectively embargo Taiwan and starve her to death.

It isn't easier to defend a small country. Where did you come up with that deluded idea? You think Israel won because they are small? No they won because of better weaponry, tactics, and really bad opponents. You don't have to defend all the areas of a big country you know?

gund

You are such an idiot. There are many ways to fight wars that do not require moving millions of troops onto Taiwan at the start of the war.

There are plenty of means to start a war without invading Taiwan, but there's absolutely no way to win without conducting a massive amphibious invasion. Such an attack is exceptionally difficult to coordinate and China lacks the ability.

The main reason why China hasn't invaded Taiwan is because Taiwan is full of Chinese.

Do you know anything about the history of Taiwan? The entire reason Taiwan exists is because the Communist forces defeated Chiang Kai-Sek's loyalists, forcing them to abandon the mainland. There's been an atmosphere of hostility since the 40s. Both sides mutually hate each other, despite the similarities in race.

It's a matter of MAD. If Taiwan feels threatened enough they would just need to get a missile with a suitable warhead over to the Three Gorges Dam.

China is much more likely to pull a political coup over Taiwan.

I work for the Taiwan military, so I'm getting a kick out of these comments...

/actually was discharged a number of years ago.

My grandfathers both fought against the Communists after World War 2, and eventually evacuated to Taiwan after losing in 1949. My parents were both born there, I was born in the US but lived in Taiwan my first 2 years. I've frequently visited there when I was younger but have been back in about a decade.

So what I have to say...I say because I have a better idea of the "state" of things. Taiwan is a small country run by small people. The fact is simply that the greater majority of "Taiwanese" people ARE Chinese, but they deny it, they even go as far has removing and changing any mention of China and Chinese from everyday life. I read an article a few months ago that they spent a small fortune removing "Chinese" from all their post offices and associated things. It is shameful for people to deny their heritage in my opinion. The only true Taiwanese are the myriad groups of aboriginal people who settled on Taiwan a thousand years ago. With people like that, no wonder they would accept a corrupt president who is embezzling the country's money and running the country into the ground. At least our president does this behind closed doors. Taiwan's president and his entire family actively steals from the people in front of the public.

Taiwan just suffers from the "little man" syndrome.

Chirping_Cricket: Do you know anything about the history of Taiwan? The entire reason Taiwan exists is because the Communist forces defeated Chiang Kai-Sek's loyalists, forcing them to abandon the mainland. There's been an atmosphere of hostility since the 40s. Both sides mutually hate each other, despite the similarities in race.

But the people who came in after the civil war are the ones who are more likely to lean towards status quo/reunification now. It's the people who were there before the KMT took over that are more likely to want independence.

Gund

You, my friend, need to grow up, See ya in about 35 years.

Juvenile = immature, childish, infantile = Unable to form coherent, logical, consistent argument.

The main reason why China hasn't invaded Taiwan is because Taiwan is full of Chinese

China's government doesn't give a shiat about losing a few million residents.

??????????????????????

Were you Mao's puppy supplier by any chance

- Taiwan is already independent. The squabble over "declaring independence" is just stupid face-saving.

- People are forgetting (or just don't know anything about the subject) that Taiwan holds several islands just off the coast of China, much closer than Taiwan proper:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinmen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsu_Islands

Any invasion from China will have to go through these first. They've tried once before, and lost:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kuningtou

As some have mentioned, you can bomb and missle a country all you like and indeed do significant harm to it, but to make it meaningful, to actually control the region, you need occupation on the ground.

Ruroni:

The only true Taiwanese are the myriad groups of aboriginal people who settled on Taiwan a thousand years ago.

Does this mean that we have to stop calling people born and raised in Canada, whose families have been there for generations, Canadians? What about Americans and Australians? Taiwan declared independence in 1895, but the Republic of Taiwan was swiftly invaded by Japan. When the Japanese left it was promptly invaded by Chinese, but that does not change the fact that Taiwanese and Chinese are different, so are British people and American people. If China invaded the US (unlikely, but this is hypothetical), it would not mean that all US citizens were suddenly Chinese. Nationality is about more than skin colour.