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(News.com.au)   Study finds that lawyers are, on average, more depressed than any other group of professionals, though you'd be depressed too if everyone made jokes that mean about your profession   (news.com.au) divider line 171
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3375 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2007 at 3:21 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-22 11:31:25 PM
Good
 
2007-04-22 11:43:08 PM
Obvious

I read that something like 70% of practicing lawyers wish they never went to law school.

I read that four years ago and still went to law school.
 
2007-04-22 11:52:11 PM
I'm entering law school this fall, and the wife is finishing up her first year. Law is like any other profession: for some people, it's work - and they do it to earn money or achieve other goals, and they find happiness in other things, a game of golf, their children, etc. Or, maybe they don't find happiness, and are bitter. But for others, it's not work, it's something they do, and they would still do it even if they weren't getting paid for it.
I suppose, ask yourself if you're counting the days until retirement, and if you are, you're in the wrong field.
 
2007-04-22 11:54:35 PM
You know who love their jobs? Clergymen (pops).
 
2007-04-22 11:55:19 PM
Huh. I heard it was dentists. Guess if I had to dig in some pigs diseased yap, drilling away at the crusty, putrid remains of a neglected wisdom tooth day after day I'd be bummed too.

(I coulda' went to med school! Ahhhhh!)

And in my experience, mortgage brokers are far more slimy than the run of the mill lawyer.
 
2007-04-22 11:56:28 PM
1981 law school graduate. Out of practice since 1991. Those were the worst years of my life. It wasn't the work load, it was the mental whoring and the politics. I'd rather paint houses.
 
2007-04-22 11:57:52 PM
Most newby lawyers rack up over $100K in student loans to get through law school, then have to work 80-hour-per-week jobs doing mind-crushingly boring beginner tasks like discovery stuff and document review, and most n00b lawyers get paid shiat wages like $65K a year for their efforts. For each new lawyer making $150K, there are probably 50 others making only $50K. Most plumbers make more per hour actually worked than most junior lawyers, and they don't have six-figure student loan debts. It gets a little better after several years of practice, but it's still usually no picnic.

It's no surprise whatsoever that more lawyers are depressed than any other profession. The statistic bigspur quoted is consistent with the views of the lawyers I know (and as a lawyer myself, I know a shiatload of them). If anything, 70% seems a little low.
 
2007-04-23 12:05:13 AM
I work part-time as a research assistant in a law firm, and even that is depressing.

I do it because I can't get anywhere near as good money with another job while I'm still in school.
 
2007-04-23 12:13:20 AM
Cyberluddite: If anything, 70% seems a little low.

Do you think there's a way to fix it? (honest question)
 
2007-04-23 12:14:12 AM
Damn, I'm at 8 with engineering.
 
2007-04-23 12:15:25 AM
2007-04-22 11:52:11 PM Theaetetus [TotalFark]
I'm entering law school this fall, and the wife is finishing up her first year. Law is like any other profession: for some people, it's work - and they do it to earn money or achieve other goals, and they find happiness in other things, a game of golf, their children, etc. Or, maybe they don't find happiness, and are bitter. But for others, it's not work, it's something they do, and they would still do it even if they weren't getting paid for it. I suppose, ask yourself if you're counting the days until retirement, and if you are, you're in the wrong field.


Yeah, yeah, you're different, right? All the lawyers who tell you it sucks are jade/cynical/lousy/lazy, but it's gonna be great for you right? All those disgruntled lawyers are wrong, and you know better. They aren't suited for it, and you are. I know, I know. All people feel that way--that they're different--when they get into law school. But most aren't.

Talk to me again in three years. I wish I had a buck for every person I tried to talk out of a law school and a law career who ignored me and then three or four years later admitted I was right and wished they had listened. Check out this thread (TF only) for a case in point.

I love the law. I liked law school. Ultimately, I've had a great (but very atypical) career. But the bottom line is that it's undeniable that the actual business of the practice of law sucks for the vast majority of people.
 
2007-04-23 12:22:02 AM
Cyberluddite:

Talk to me again in three years. I wish I had a buck for every person I tried to talk out of a law school and a law career who ignored me and then three or four years later admitted I was right and wished they had listened.

QFT. Wish I had lsitened to all the naysayers. I honestly thought it'd be different for me, but I have become increasingly concerned the past two years. I graduate in a few days and if I could find a viable option outside the law, I would probably take it.
 
2007-04-23 12:27:58 AM
007-04-23 12:13:20 AM Zenken13 [TotalFark]
Do you think there's a way to fix it? (honest question)


I don't know. The problem is that most lawyers, regardless of how smart they might generally be or how competent they are as lawyers, are terrible businesspeople and awful employers. They treat their employees like shiat and work them like slaves. Obviously, the more hours an attorney works the more money the firm makes (even though the attorney is paid the same wage, in general), so why not--other than out of a sense or decency, which many legal employers do not possess--work them until they drop? The law schools make so much money off law students that they pump out way more lawyers than the market needs, so legal employers can get away abusing and overworking their employees because the supply of freshly-minted lawyers exceeds the demand. Employers treat younger associates as fungible goods--they abuse and work the living shiat out of them until they outlive their usefulness, and then replace them with more (lower paid) n00bs.

There are also certain newby lawyers who--similar to attitude expressed in the post I responded to above--feel that the practice of law is some sort of exalted calling rather than a job or profession, and are willing to make martyrs of themselves and allow themselves to be screwed over in the name of pursuing this supposed exalted activity. Some even revel in the self-flagellation, and brag about how many hours they had to work last week. These people are their own--and their co-workers'--worst enemies. Law firms figure that if these people will take it without complaining, then others should too. These people set the bar, and everyone else has to meet it.

If ever there was a profession that could benefit from unionization, it would be the associates at major law firms.
 
2007-04-23 01:09:03 AM
Well, female lawyers can cure their depression with ice cream. How about a nice pint of

farm1.static.flickr.com

/mmm
 
2007-04-23 01:14:12 AM
The worst thing about being a lawyer is that half the people whom you serve are idiots and can't understand why you do the stuff you do.
 
2007-04-23 01:39:56 AM
Manfred Richthofen: The worst thing about being a lawyer is that half the people whom you serve are idiots and can't understand why you do the stuff you do.


You forgot the part about biatching about the bill and ultimately stiffing you for half of it.
 
2007-04-23 03:23:55 AM
They're lieing.

/but who am I refering to?
 
2007-04-23 03:35:29 AM
If that made me sad, I'd just cry into my huge piles of cash...

As it is, I'll attempt to pay for the house AND the bills at the same time! Let's see how I do!
 
2007-04-23 03:36:04 AM
I'm starting law school in August, hooray for depression!
 
2007-04-23 03:36:13 AM
Wow, is *this* person in trouble, then.

img323.imageshack.us
 
2007-04-23 03:36:35 AM
No wonder that link was submitted for the graveyard shift posters and people cramming for finals.

img206.imageshack.us

/Who cares?
 
2007-04-23 03:37:58 AM
I would have thought it was dentists. They have the highest suicide rate.
 
2007-04-23 03:38:20 AM
Burns: Now before we begin, let me make one thing clear for you. I
want your legal advice. I even pay for it. But to me you're
all vipers!
You live on personal injuries, you live on divorces, you live
on pain and misery! I--
[getting ahold of himself]
Oh, but I'm rambling. Would anyone like some coffee?
Lawyer: Yes, I would like some coffee.
Burns: Want it black, don't you? Black like your heart? It's so
hard for me to listen to you, I hate you all so much!
[pause]
I'm sorry, it's my problem, I'll deal with it. Please
continue.
Lawyer: If you offer Homer Simpson a token cash settlement, say a
couple of thou, he'll be so dazzled, he'll sign anything you
shove under his nose.
Burns: [sarcastic] Oh, brilliant, a cash settlement. I could have
figured that out, you buttoned-down maggot!
Lawyer: Got any cream?
Burns: Oh yes, of course, where are my manners?
 
2007-04-23 03:38:27 AM
They're just pissed they haven't been able to penetrate the Massey pre-nup.
 
2007-04-23 03:43:27 AM
"WAH! I charge 500 dollars for having my secretary write a letter on behalf of my client to another bastard making 500 dollars to read it on behalf of his client.

Not to mention all the hot babes giving me BJ's hoping I'll marry then so they can brag about being married to a lawyer.

SOB, My life is SO HARD!"


Look into my eyes and please notice the absence of tears.
 
2007-04-23 03:45:40 AM
Manfred Richthofen

The worst thing about being a lawyer is that half the people whom you serve are idiots and can't understand why you do the stuff you do.


Software Engineering is a bit like that as well:

The people making the decisions know next to nothing about what you do.

The people in Marketing know next to nothing about what you do.

The clients know less than nothing about what you do.

....and yet....somehow everything is your fault when something wasn't delivered last year, under budget, and bug-free, even when people who know next nothing about what you do made all the decisions.

This is probably the case in most professions where the technical details just aren't seen by anybody except the people involved in the work itself. I only know software, but I'm sure lots of professions are similar that way. I sometimes wish I did something like drive buses, at least the product of your work is a constant and obvious reality to the people you're serving. When your daily grind is so abstract to everyone around you, it gets a little frustrating.
 
2007-04-23 03:46:54 AM
I'm considering law school, but I promised myself I would work 1-2 years after graduation before applying for law school, to make sure that being a lawyer (along with the good and the bad) is really for me. I graduate in May and I have a good job lined up. Any advice on what to consider and what not to consider for deciding on whether to be a lawyer would be greatly appreciated (email in profile).
 
2007-04-23 03:47:01 AM
I have my last law school final on May 5. I am skipping graduation because I don't give a damn, and I will be glad to be out of that school forever.

I have a pretty good job lined up after graduation. But I am going in with eyes wide open. Work sucks, that's why they call it work. The only person I know who loves her job is a pre-school librarian who reads to four-year-olds for a living and gets paid a ton of money by the State of Texas's head-start program. Other than that, all jobs suck in their own special way. I was an engineer for 6 years before law school. That sucked too. Is the career change going to make my life better in any way? No, but I will get paid more and that's enough for me.

/bitter ray of sunshine
 
2007-04-23 03:47:36 AM
Ive worked for several major law firms (200+) lawyers, and its like working in a shark tank. Lawyers basically are law salesmen and women. They peddle their shiat to juries and judges...most of the time being a golf buddy of the judge. Whenever they have to reach an agreement with another attorney, they chat for five minutes on how to best screw both thier clients, spend an hour bsing about how well they did on the course the previous weekend, then charge the whole thing to both their clients. They can all rot in hell. I turned down MC law and ole miss law after working in these law factories, and havent regretted it once since.
 
2007-04-23 03:48:25 AM
Am I the only one amused by:

"Yeah, yeah, you're different, right? All the lawyers who tell you it sucks are jade/cynical/lousy/lazy, but it's gonna be great for you right? All those disgruntled lawyers are wrong, and you know better."

being followed by

"I love the law. I liked law school. Ultimately, I've had a great (but very atypical) career."

/for what it's worth, I know far more satisfied than disgruntled lawyers at my firm
 
2007-04-23 03:49:24 AM
I'm a used-car salesman so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2007-04-23 03:51:27 AM
used car salesmen can rot in hell too
 
2007-04-23 03:52:46 AM
Its funny. My ex-wife's attorney for her DUI case got her the lightest punishment possible because he knew the prosecutor on one of her hearing dates. Thats it. Guilty as sin and, while she plead guilty, she found every other person she encountered with similar circumstances got hosed.

While it was good for us, I'm still kind of on the fence about how fair that actually is. Especially since we're no longer married. I think a few extra days in the pokey would have been good for her.
 
2007-04-23 03:57:56 AM
Cyberluddite:

Talk to me again in three years. I wish I had a buck for every person I tried to talk out of a law school and a law career who ignored me and then three or four years later admitted I was right and wished they had listened.

I've got one myself. Little numbnuts hasn't listened to a single thing I ever told him. Worst part is, he's such a milquetoast momma's boy, I know that he'll get his ass thoroughly kicked. He's doing it because momma wants his son to be a lawyer or a doctor, and he's just way too bookish to be a doctor.

He's stopped calling me for advice. I think he believes my advice sucks. Too bad it's also not wrong...
 
2007-04-23 04:02:57 AM
i just came in here to see what all the lawyers had to say. after all, one of these days, one of you guys will be president, and i'll have my chance to say i knew you when you were young, before he/she became a big shot!
 
2007-04-23 04:02:57 AM
No one tried to talk me out going to law school... I wish that they had. I'm way too lazy to be a lawyer. =p
 
2007-04-23 04:06:04 AM
"The younger professionals have higher rates of depressive symptoms than older professionals," the report by Beyond Blue and Beaton Consulting said.

Well. No shiat.

The younger ones are the ones that got all the promises. See Fight Club. These promises are now being systematically broken. Not only are we coming up on the dawning realization that we will not all be rock stars and movie gods, the younger generation is also coming to the realization of how badly the older generation has F*CKED UP to need these laws in the first place, and how much "screw over everybody else as hard and fast as you can" is the real life ideal. Today's kids were taught in grade school, share, play friendly, and work together. Then they get dropped in the real world, where the older folks are greedy, mean, and hypocritical, but more than ready to invoke the need to 'get along with others' if you can't kiss up to THEM.

Then they find out that, hour for hour, you could make more dosh by working double shifts as a grunt in a factory. Gee, THANKS, that's yet another societal promise (go to college and you'll be better than a grunt, better paid, held in higher prestige, the elite of society) broken.
 
2007-04-23 04:08:52 AM
Don't trust anyone over 30, Ishidan!
 
2007-04-23 04:10:26 AM
With the stroke of a hand, the demand for lawyers and accountants could be obliterated. I see more people heading into these fields as they are perceived to be outsourcing-protected with relatively good earning potential. Either the price they can charge will be driven down, or demand will remain high artificially until the system is declared broken and sweeping reforms brought in. The hedge against that happening is that most in government have a law background, or depend on lawyers and accountants protect them through obfuscation.

Seeing as how they contribute little to growth (as in production, development, and innovation--the source of our increasing wealth) I see the result not as an if or what, but simply a matter of time.

Middle managers were once essential, today they are almost gone. That happened within a generation. Looking forward change is not slowing down, and probably accelerating on average.
 
2007-04-23 04:13:35 AM
hypnotoad
I have my last law school final on May 5. I am skipping graduation because I don't give a damn, and I will be glad to be out of that school forever.


Mine's on May 10, and I feel the same way. I'm heading back to good old Alaska, and the long term (within 5 years) plan is to work for myself and work when I damn well feel like it.
And fish, etc...
I'd be depressed if I was gonna work 80 hours a week, but I figure I can pay off the 80 grand I owe eventually and I've learned a lot, and will have decent options from now on.
At least that's the plan.
 
2007-04-23 04:19:30 AM
Also, anybody notice how bullshiat this article is?

LAWYERS, insurance brokers and accountants are among the most depressed workers in Australia, according to a wide-ranging study.

Nearly 16 per cent of lawyers who responded to the survey displayed "moderate or severe symptoms of depression"


AMONG the most depressed workers in Australia? Nearly 16 percent displayed moderate or severe?

/Yeah, I know. lawyers suck anyway.
 
2007-04-23 04:22:21 AM
hotter than a cold sore,
Depression means more than just sad or burned out.
 
2007-04-23 04:44:22 AM
The other day my friend and I were sitting across from two lawyers on a train. The lawyers only had one ticket between them. When we asked them what they were going to do, the lawyers said 'don't worry, we're lawyers!'

A few minutes later the ticket collector walked down the aisle. The two lawyers hid in a toilet cubicle. When the conductor knocked on the door, a hand shot out holding the single ticket, which the conductor collected before going on his merry way.

Needless to say, my friend and I were impressed. We decided to try the trick ourselves on the return journey

On the return trip, we ran into the lawyers again. This time, they didn't have any ticket at all. 'Don't worry, we're lawyers', they reassured us. When the conductor came, my friend and I hid in the toilet cubicle with our one ticket. Soon enough, there was a knock on the cubicle door. Thinking it was the conductor, we held the ticket out, which the lawyers collected before hiding in the next cubicle.

/Law student
//reading you loud and clear, subby
 
2007-04-23 04:47:15 AM
Think how depressed bartenders, nuns, and guys with a duck on their head must be.
 
2007-04-23 04:59:29 AM
most n00b lawyers get paid shiat wages like $65K a year for their efforts

Maybe some minimum-wage folks can take up a collection for them.
 
2007-04-23 05:06:05 AM
h to the ojo

Depression means more than just sad or burned out

yeah, i know. i've had a little experience with it.

you okay?
 
2007-04-23 05:07:43 AM
Why is there such a disproportionate amount of Australian news on Fark in recent days?
 
2007-04-23 05:12:41 AM
Beave0101

Why is there such a disproportionate amount of Australian news on Fark in recent days?

We've always been a little over-represented here. The best explanation I've heard is that we submit while everyone else is sleeping.
 
2007-04-23 05:16:36 AM
the opposite of charity is justice
most n00b lawyers get paid shiat wages like $65K a year for their efforts

Maybe some minimum-wage folks can take up a collection for them.


Yeah, but how many of those minimum wage folks are in the hole to Sallie Mae for around 80k? Exactly.

2L here. I'm utterly bored with law school at this point and I'm glad I only have one more year to go. My last final (for this year) is on May 7th and it can't get here soon enough. I've decided that I don't want to work for a big firm in my mid to large size city because, although the 100k is nice, the 70 hour work weeks aren't.

Who knows where it'll all end? Maybe I won't even be practicing in 10 years, but I'd like to have the option. And let's be honest. After a few years in the business, it beats swinging a hammer.
 
2007-04-23 05:19:10 AM
hotter than a cold sore,
I re-read what you wrote the first time--the key word was AMONG. But thanks for looking out for me and asking how I'm doing.

Maybe the study isn't BS in that Australians are really happy with their beaches and sunshine. Maybe a lawyer in Australia is high paid lollipop delivery man in America. Or just maybe, reporters have just become a very bad way of rehashing information released elsewhere because they have too little time to write about something they don't understand. I don't know because I'm still too lazy to read the link.
 
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