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(ESPN)   Vince Young selected as the next NFLer to suffer the Madden Curse   (sports.espn.go.com ) divider line
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658 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Apr 2007 at 10:13 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-17 06:29:41 PM  
Oh thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou

/Charger fan
 
2007-04-17 07:05:03 PM  
Seconded!!!!
 
2007-04-17 08:18:42 PM  
if i were an NFL player, i would refuse to be on the cover, no matter how much they paid me. i don't normally believe in curses and superstitions, but this Madden cover thing is getting a bit scary...

they should just go back to Madden's fat head on the cover like the good ole days. that would be a more accurate description of this bloated, useless product anyway.

/misses 2k football
 
2007-04-17 08:23:58 PM  
Mine was better and what would be the curse, have less than an 8-8 season?
 
2007-04-17 09:21:49 PM  
Thank GOD!!! Now I can hope for a repeat superbowl...

/Colts fan
 
2007-04-17 10:22:50 PM  
creepingdeath: Mine was better and what would be the curse, have less than an 8-8 season?

he is the least accomplished NFL player to ever get on the cover. Less so than even Dorsey Levens and Michael Vick.

WOO a passer rating of 66! Even in his teams win's with him as QB, he had a passer rating of 87.4, not exactly superstar material.

Oh well, it's easy because he's obviously going to have a worse season this year anyway (win/loss wise, not necessarily number wise because it can't get much worse)

/I submitted this much much later with a better headline...which wasn't allowed because of this one ;)
 
2007-04-17 10:24:12 PM  
Don't know if it the Sports Guy who suggested putting players we WANT to fail on the cover of Madden but, let me begin a list of candidates:

T.O.
 
2007-04-17 10:29:52 PM  
Heh, let's see him get outta this one.

/glad Peyton wasn't put on the cover
//Go Colts!
 
2007-04-17 10:33:22 PM  
I think it was Bill Simmons who said hes gotten a lot of emails suggesting that Bin Laden should be put on the Madden cover because thats our best shot at getting him.
 
2007-04-17 10:35:04 PM  
bah, I had a QB who threw for about 100 TD and maybe 10 INT and had a QB rating over 100 every game, was undefeated and won the Super Bowl as a rookie on Madden Superstar and HE didn't make it on the cover.

/Also had a WR with about 4000 yards receiving and at least 40 TD per year for 6 season who still isn't on the cover
 
2007-04-17 10:44:07 PM  
BrownManUPS

Yeah, because the "strength" of the Titans is going to matter to the Colts Super Bowl chances?
 
2007-04-17 10:45:32 PM  
star_topology: Don't know if it the Sports Guy who suggested putting players we WANT to fail on the cover of Madden but, let me begin a list of candidates:

T.O.


Tom Brady, too.
 
2007-04-17 10:49:08 PM  
sorry, subby, but another headline was much better

Kerry Collins to be Titans starting QB

/It got an insta-red though
 
2007-04-17 10:52:37 PM  
srhp29: Yeah, because the "strength" of the Titans is going to matter to the Colts Super Bowl chances?

no, he didn't want any Colts on the cover, like, say a certain Manning. For some reason he doesn't trust Sorgi to win a Super Bowl.
 
2007-04-17 11:11:41 PM  
Well I didn't like the green because it didn't make sence in terms of Vince's stats to this point. I read better but, I'd bet 50$ that this is another The Nakar post. Greens no matter how horrible.

About the Vince cover, couldn't have made a worse selection. EA must be getting turned down left and right.
 
2007-04-17 11:16:15 PM  
At this point, I think athletes are signing up to be on the cover just to be the guy that breaks the curse. Now that Young has the cover, if he survives the next season, he's going to be the man.
 
2007-04-17 11:27:39 PM  
Zombie Hitler: At this point, I think athletes are signing up to be on the cover just to be the guy that breaks the curse. Now that Young has the cover, if he survives the next season, he's going to be the man.

no, it's a free excuse for his suckage next year. his passer rating against the top half of the league in passing defenses last year? 58.1. Not exactly honor-winning material.
 
2007-04-17 11:53:06 PM  
IAmRight:

Passer Rating is kinda overrated. Favors Completion percentage too much and doesn't take into account yards per catch. It favors West Coast QBs which is why Steve Young had the highest ever Rating for a long ass time even. Tom Brady has never had a passer rating at or over a 100 but hes still the best in the business - cause he wins. Points being that VY might have a bad Passer Rating but he did go 8-5 as a starter, plus won a bunch of games with his legs. Hes a helluva player. Don't hate.
 
2007-04-18 12:01:11 AM  
Silver_Kestrel: Points being that VY might have a bad Passer Rating but he did go 8-5 as a starter, plus won a bunch of games with his legs. Hes a helluva player. Don't hate.

He's a mediocre player who won some games more due in part to his defense stepping up than he actually had to do with anything. I guarantee he won't have a better year next year. Young had the 30th best numbers of anyone. The defense is what won most of those games. Even in wins he didn't even break 90 in QB rating!

He's okay. He's not worthy of being on a Madden cover, though. I'd say he's the least worthy since Dorsey Levens. Even Vick won a game in the playoffs before getting on the cover.
 
2007-04-18 12:04:53 AM  
Attention fantasy football players: Draft Tomlinson AND sleep well!
 
2007-04-18 12:07:49 AM  
Silver_Kestrel: So you must be a Rex Grossman fan. Not big on completion percentage, but you like yards per completion. Also, 15-4 as a starter last year.

Anyway, I think they picked VY because he has a chance to be a star, so his best years are in front of him. By picking an MVP, you are picking a guy who's best years are usually behind him.

/I like Rex, but he needs experience.
 
2007-04-18 12:09:55 AM  
Silver_Kestrel: IAmRight:

Passer Rating is kinda overrated. Favors Completion percentage too much and doesn't take into account yards per catch. It favors West Coast QBs which is why Steve Young had the highest ever Rating for a long ass time even. Tom Brady has never had a passer rating at or over a 100 but hes still the best in the business - cause he wins. Points being that VY might have a bad Passer Rating but he did go 8-5 as a starter, plus won a bunch of games with his legs. Hes a helluva player. Don't hate.


Kyle Orton had a better record as a starter in his rookie year. Why wasn't he on the cover?
 
2007-04-18 12:12:52 AM  
Fark It: Kyle Orton had a better record as a starter in his rookie year. Why wasn't he on the cover?

Furthermore, this last year was Grossman's first full season. He "led" his team to the Super Bowl as much as Young "led" his team to an 8-5 record. And he had a better passer rating.

/Leinart is better
//none of the rookies deserve to be on it
///put TO on it to cripple him or Favre on it so he can finally retire
 
2007-04-18 12:16:31 AM  
Silver_Kestrel

And if you want to just go off stats, Young never even passed for 250 yards in a game. He was held under 100 yards passing in 3 games he started. That's not impressive. In fact, ordinarily it would be pathetic. They were 2-1 in games he passed for less than 100 yards. He was not the reason they won games; their defense was.
 
2007-04-18 12:20:55 AM  
IAmRight: Silver_Kestrel

And if you want to just go off stats, Young never even passed for 250 yards in a game. He was held under 100 yards passing in 3 games he started. That's not impressive. In fact, ordinarily it would be pathetic. They were 2-1 in games he passed for less than 100 yards. He was not the reason they won games; their defense was.


And they lost Pacman Jones for the season (he had 3 punt return TDs and averaged more yards per return than Hester). And they finished 8-8, so they can't draft terribly high. And they're in the AFC. In other words, they're farked. The Bears, on the other hand, will be starting out with a healthy Mike Brown and Tommie Harris, draft well, and play in the NFC North. If Grossman is only slightly better than last year the Bears are easily making it back to the Super Bowl.
 
2007-04-18 12:31:12 AM  
Even in wins he didn't even break 90 in QB rating!

@ WASW 25-22 - 85.6
HOUW 28-22- 87.4
NYGW 24-21 - 107.9
@ BUFW 30-29 - 127.7

Plus Wins in weeks 13 and 14 where he had passer ratings of 70ish and rushed for over 70. There was the 39 yard run in OT to win agianst Houston in week 14 which directly won a game.

Look you're probably right - he is the worst player to grace the cover based on previous seasons stats. But I am certain that he is also a future superstar. This was his rookie Season. Look at this progression from the start of the season to the finish. He is going to be a very good quarterback in this league, and he will mot probably end up as a top 5 QB next season.

Kyle Orton had a better record as a starter in his rookie year. Why wasn't he on the cover?

Cause hes not black.

So you must be a Rex Grossman fan. Not big on completion percentage, but you like yards per completion. Also, 15-4 as a starter last year.

No not really. Just not fond of West Coast QBs with Inflated numbers.
 
2007-04-18 12:36:49 AM  
Silver_Kestrel, I was referring to his overall rating in wins, not in specific games. He won't be a top 5 QB next year because he's going to get injured ;)

And he's not as good as people are making him out to be. He's average and he's not a good passer. Maybe he'll learn how to pass but he looks and sounds like an idiot.

/I will never like him, USC cost me $500 by losing to him and the Longhorns in the Rose Bowl
//he did not win it, the Trojans gave it away
 
2007-04-18 12:39:09 AM  
Someone put my main man Matt Millen on the cover. EXPLODE THE CURSE!
 
2007-04-18 12:44:11 AM  
endlessben: Someone put my main man Matt Millen on the cover.

LMAO have a group picture of Millen, Al Davis, Terrell Owens, and whoever else is reviled around the league.

/I'd say Pacman but he's already got his penalty
//no one better say Chad Johnson, his is a fight for hilariousness
 
2007-04-18 01:19:59 AM  
Joey Porter is good asshat because he enjoys thugging and mugging.

/Levi Jones getting beat down by 6-7 is not okay.
/DIAF Joe
 
2007-04-18 01:33:54 AM  
Sure, he led the otherwise hapless Titans within one win of the playoffs, but his statistics weren't all that impressive:
51.5% completion
66.7% passer rating
more INTs (13) than TDs (12)
Michael Vick nearly outrushed VY by a 2:1 ratio, and provided about 500 more yards of total offense (passing & rushing)... and I certainly don't consider Vick an outstanding quarterback by any stretch of the imagination.

So, if he doesn't have a statistically good 2007 (i.e. much better than '06), is it going to be written off as a result of the jinx? Or what if the Titans miss the playoffs/stink miserably? Cover jinx, again?
 
2007-04-18 02:28:52 AM  
This is a whole lot of discussion over what will most likely be a crap game that makes way too much money despite minimal effort by the developers.
 
2007-04-18 03:40:04 AM  
IAmRight

//he did not win it, the Trojans gave it away

Um...did you even watch that game? I have no arguments regarding his NFL career so far, as watching a Texans game is so far on my list of things to do, but how do you figure he didn't win that game?
 
2007-04-18 03:49:38 AM  
moonka: but how do you figure he didn't win that game?

Bush threw away a lateral, White didn't convert on 4th and 2 for probably the only time ever, Trojans didn't defend against him running at all all game.

/and the refs allowed a lateral well after Young's knee was down
//they'd have probably scored a TD that drive anyway, the USC defense sucked that year
 
2007-04-18 04:10:13 AM  
2004 USC > 2005 Texas

/w0rd
 
2007-04-18 04:20:50 AM  
DasDingus

1995 Nebraska > 2004 USC > 2005 Texas

/FTFY
 
2007-04-18 04:33:58 AM  
IAmRight
So what you are saying is that USC didn't play a PERFECT game, and so VY's game doesn't count?

On an unrelated note, you think the Texans should have taken him?

/Likes USC
//Likes Texas even more.
 
2007-04-18 04:55:03 AM  
I said from day one that Vince Young would be the better QB out of the gate, but after 3-4 years, Leinart would have more success in the long-run. I really don't like Leinart and don't believe he will be a star QB, but he'll settle in as an average NFL starter. Young will be a Michael Vick. A lot of fans, puts butts in seats, shows some thrilling moments, but ultimately will never get you a ring... not even close to a ring.

And yes, huskers97 the 1995 Husker crew was clearly the greatest college team in history. Just yesterday I watched the 96 Fiesta bowl where they slaughtered Spurrier's Fun-N-Gun disaster of an offense. I'm still simply amazed at the domination and speed across that entire team. What makes it sweeter is that everyone was trashing them all year, and now they are #1 in virtually every poll.

And the USC squads don't compare. They came darn close to getting beat... more often than they should have. That's not the mark of a truly great team. Domination each and every week. No surprises, no upset watch games. Look back at where Nebraska's opponents in 1995 finished in the polls. They played a lot of ranked teams that year and demolished them all going away. The ultimate moment was an utterly humiliated Steve Spurrier. Tommie Frazier's brother played fullback for Spurrier too. Boy would I not want to be that guy!
 
2007-04-18 05:03:32 AM  
moonka: So what you are saying is that USC didn't play a PERFECT game, and so VY's game doesn't count?

I'm saying USC played a retarded game, wtf was that lateral???

And Carroll should've had something to contain his running; Young's passing isn't impressive or scary.

And I'd take the 2004 USC team against anyone.

/needed Tatupu to win that third consecutive title...instead he wanted to lead my other favorite team, the Seahawks, to the Super Bowl
 
2007-04-18 05:07:01 AM  
08/31 Oklahoma St. Stillwater W 64-21
09/09 Michigan St. E. Lansing W 50-10
09/16 Arizona State Lincoln W 77-28
09/23 Pacific Lincoln W 49-7
09/30 Washington St. Lincoln W 35-21
10/14 Missouri Lincoln W 57-0
10/21 #8 Kansas St. Lincoln W 49-25
10/28 #7Colorado Boulder W 44-21
11/04 Iowa State Lincoln W 73-14
11/11 #10Kansas Lawrence W 41-3
11/24 Oklahoma Lincoln W 37-0
01/02 #2Florida* Tempe W 62-24

No comparison at all. I had not heard that about Tommie Frazier's brother before, that's a rather amusing tidbit, thanks.

And the 'skers never jumped to no. 1 in the polls til after the win in Boulder. Although, they were number 2 in the polls up til that point so I wouldn't go so far as to say they were being "trashed." Still vastly underrated though, haha.

/Huskerpedia.com on the source for the schedule, btw.
 
2007-04-18 05:22:01 AM  
moonka: but how do you figure he didn't win that game?

In addition to the reasons already given, when faced with 4th and 2 at around the 25 yard line, leading by 4 in the final minutes of a game, a field goal is an option.

That being said, VY's Rose Bowl performance was still the greatest individual performance in a team sport championship I've ever seen.

That being said, VY will never win a Super Bowl because he's dumb as a brick.
 
2007-04-18 05:23:58 AM  
Er, disregard my last statement about VY never winning a Super Bowl... now that I think about it, so did Terry Bradshaw.
 
2007-04-18 07:54:31 AM  
This Madden Curse thing is ridiculous. I hope VY lights up the NFL next year injury free so people stop talking about this stupid thing.

/so many NFL players get injured every year the odds are in favor of getting hurt and having to sit out
//unless you're a quarterback
///that doesn't run
 
2007-04-18 08:53:33 AM  
IAmRight: And Carroll should've had something to contain his running; Young's passing isn't impressive or scary.

1) Carroll had LBs spying on Young off and on throughout the game; didn't help.
2) Carroll sent the kitchen sink at Young in the final drive, then sometimes backed off entirely only rushing 3-4; didn't help.
3) Vince in the Rose Bowl: 29-40 passing to 7 different receivers. Leinart: 30-40 passing to 7 different receivers.
4) Vince had the nation's highest QB rating most of the season and ended the Rose Bowl #3 nationally in QB rating.
5) You lost, quit making excuses like your crybaby QB. Be a man and admit you lost to the better team that night.
 
2007-04-18 11:59:53 AM  
Rivers had a much better year. Boy am I glad he's not on the cover either.

This Madden Curse thing is ridiculous.

Mr. Alexander and Mr. Vick are just two of several that would disagree with you.
 
2007-04-18 12:30:26 PM  
madden101:
you forgot the rushing touchdowns too. he had more TD's than turnovers. The only way to go is up for that young man.
 
2007-04-18 03:14:47 PM  
"Passer Rating is kinda overrated. Favors Completion percentage too much and doesn't take into account yards per catch."

That's technically not true. The problem is that it's taken into account via Yards per Attempt, which is (Yards / Completion) * (Completions / Attempts). What ends up happening is that Completion % gets, if not a double weight, then a 1.5 weight, while TD% and Int% each get a 1 weight, and Yars / Catch a .5 weight.

I guess I should mention I'm one of like ten people in the world who know off the top of their head how to calculate QB rating. I'm also probably the only person who learned how at age 13.
 
2007-04-18 05:22:50 PM  
dionysos: 5) You lost, quit making excuses like your crybaby QB. Be a man and admit you lost to the better team that night.

If you think the better team won then you're delusional. Sometimes the best team doesn't win. It happens. If the teams were to play ten times, the Trojans would've won 9 of 'em. Just so happened that the 1 of 10 happened to be the game that was played.

3) Vince in the Rose Bowl: 29-40 passing to 7 different receivers. Leinart: 30-40 passing to 7 different receivers.

Well the Texas defense was a lot better than the USC defense. In a fantastic bout of revisionist history, he supposedly beat a great defense AFTER the game, but before the game, much of the talk was of how much the defense had slipped and really wasn't good. They gave up 51 to Fresno State, for god's sakes.

Simply put, if Bush doesn't throw that insane lateral after a 30 yard gain for no real reason, the game goes the same way as USC-OU the year before.
 
2007-04-18 05:47:18 PM  
tarkus1980: What ends up happening is that Completion % gets, if not a double weight, then a 1.5 weight, while TD% and Int% each get a 1 weight, and Yars / Catch a .5 weight.

the reason it goes that way is to even out the passing offenses; obviously a team that takes more deep shots (like the Raiders WANT to do) is going to have a lower completion percentage, so the formula attempts to correct for that by having yards per catch count as well.

PonchoLibre: This Madden Curse thing is ridiculous. I hope VY lights up the NFL next year injury free so people stop talking about this stupid thing.

I thought it was ridiculous until it happened to my RB (Alexander). We all think it won't happen to our guy. :/

I hope he doesn't get injured and just gets exposed as the not-even-mediocre QB he is.

49.2 QB rating against teams in the top half of the league in defense.
 
2007-04-18 05:55:31 PM  
the reason it goes that way is to even out the passing offenses; obviously a team that takes more deep shots (like the Raiders WANT to do) is going to have a lower completion percentage, so the formula attempts to correct for that by having yards per catch count as well.

Right, I understand that. My point was that the formula doesn't do a sufficiently large correction to account for this; by using Yards/Attempt instead of Yards/Catch, it ends up counting both Yards/Catch AND Completion %, and in the process makes Completion % about 3 times more important in the formula than Yards/Catch.
 
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