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(Chron)   Off-duty cop tasers man carrying his newborn as they leave the hospital. "My baby hit the concrete floor"   (chron.com) divider line 281
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26138 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2007 at 5:06 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-16 05:17:27 PM  
2007-04-16 04:42:48 PM a4dzac


Yeah, after rtfa, I have to side with the authorities on this one...it sounds as though this guy was purposely and repeatedly ignoring staff orders that he could not leave with the baby yet.


and the staff had what right to issue him orders?

or are you just one of those people who reflexively obeys authority no matter how invalid?
 
2007-04-16 05:17:28 PM  
Put. Down. The baby.
I repeat: Put. Down. The baby
 
2007-04-16 05:19:49 PM  
"Off-duty cop just stands there as man kidnaps newborn".

No, I like TFA better.
Taser takes path of least resistance through the tasees body--not through another body.

/wrap babies in bubble-wrap
//it'll make it easier for protecto-parents to keep them from anything harmful for the rest of their lives.
 
2007-04-16 05:19:58 PM  
This couple sounds like trash. I'm sure they were shouting at the cop and anyone else who got in their way, the cop probably didn't know exactly what was going on and only saw a potential danger to a young child. It says he warned the guy repeatedly, the guy clearly ignored his warnings..

If a cop is pointing a weapon at you, you need to chill the heck out and do what he says or he's going to shoot you. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong. The guy endangered his own kid by disobeying law enforcement. If he's got some beef with authority he should take it up with them when he isn't holding his own kid as hostage.
 
2007-04-16 05:20:40 PM  
Nurse: "I'm sorry sir you can't just leave with the baby, we have to give you discharge papers and have the pediatrician come speak with you."

El Douche bag: "WHAT! I can't leave your holding me prisoner!"

*GRABS NEWBORN RUNS AWAY*

*ALARMS*

*security catches him escorts him back*

Nurse: "OK just wait we'll clear everything up"

The farking retard tries it again.

OK 1. the alarms are there for a reason, you need to be discharged. 2. Its legally not your right to just leave if you accept the terms of the hospital admission, there is a process to insure the babies safety.

Tasering was a bad choice, taking the newborn away, then restraining the husband would be a better choice.

this doesn't bode well for the future of this kid based on his gene pool.
 
2007-04-16 05:20:52 PM  
Drop your weapon!!

And...the coffin!
 
2007-04-16 05:20:59 PM  
Mom sez: "But my baby she had the shakes real bad."

Dad sez: "My deal is that I broke no laws and maybe I broke some hospital policies but I broke no laws."

Guess what color the parents were. Anyone? Bueller?
 
2007-04-16 05:21:24 PM  
Yes, let the farking snap judgements flow. I love how everyone has a strong opinion on the situation after reading a news report.
 
2007-04-16 05:21:56 PM  
Magorn

Hospitals cannot detain you from leaving unless you are invountarily committed; polcies, security measures, or procedures be damned.

The hospital wasn't trying to stop the man from leaving by himself. But if you walk out with a newborn without going through the proper channels, it does raise some literal alarms. And most new parents don't leave the hospital in the middle of the night.
 
2007-04-16 05:22:14 PM  
didnt need to taser him why not just follow the guy it wasnt like he was going to get away
 
2007-04-16 05:22:38 PM  
KaponoFor3


gilgigamesh: Thus the police have a higher burden to act responsibly when confronted with a crisis.

This is true, no one can doubt this. But, in my opinion, a larger portion of the blame must lie at the feet of those who precipitated the crisis by poor choices.


Well, by definition if their burden is higher then they hold a greater portion of the blame.

And I can't say he necessarily precipitated the crisis just because he wouldn't stop when the cop ordered him to.

We don't live in a "Papers please" society here. If you aren't otherwise doing anything illegal, failing to capitulate to a cop's demands is no crime.
 
2007-04-16 05:23:01 PM  
darkhorse23
This is also very very true. To hold someone in the hospital, without a court order, is considered kidnapping.

Could you cite the law you're referring to?

Also, for future reference, making your text larger and brighter than everyone elses does not make your opinion more valid, nor does it automatically qualify as 'last word'.. you may want to just try presenting valid and well conceived points in the future.
 
2007-04-16 05:23:03 PM  
Boling estimated in his report that the baby fell from the father's arms about two feet before landing on the floor.

Damn these midget baby-kidnappers.
 
2007-04-16 05:23:27 PM  
Regardless of how big an asshat the father was, the Cop is still guilty of wreckless endangerment at the very least. No way in hell he should have ever fired a taser at anyone holding a 2 day old baby. Even if he was careful enough to hit the suspect well away from the child, a fall of even as little a 2 feet could have done serious damage to the baby.

That Cop could have easily restrained the father without resorting to disproportionate force. Aint like the guy was gonna fight him holding his two day old child.

Weeners here is bang on the money. Major lawsuit.
 
2007-04-16 05:24:34 PM  
While I'm pretty certain the cop didn't know the the man was the baby's father, he still was out of line for tasering someone carrying a baby. He could have just as easily hit the baby by accident. As is, he caused the baby's father to drop the baby.

That being said, unless the baby was in NICU or had some other issue that made it unsafe to remove the baby from the hospital, why was the staff against them taking the baby home? It doesn't say why in the article.
 
2007-04-16 05:24:37 PM  
Sinto: But if you walk out with a newborn without going through the proper channels,

Hmm does that mean parents who can't foot the bill for their labor and delivery stay have their child repossessed? Since hospitals obviously own the children born there....
 
2007-04-16 05:24:41 PM  
gilgigamesh: We don't live in a "Papers please" society here. If you aren't otherwise doing anything illegal, failing to capitulate to a cop's demands is no crime.

Sure, it's no crime, but it is absolute stupidity.
 
2007-04-16 05:24:47 PM  
img.photobucket.com

the baby gave him the finger, man.
 
2007-04-16 05:25:33 PM  
So what should the cop have used to safely remove the baby from the clutches of a possible kidnapper?

Pepper spray? No, risk of spraying the baby
Baton the guy? No, risk of hitting the baby
Force the guy to the ground? No, risk of injuring the baby
Forcibly grab the baby from the guy? Quite a stupid idea! Again, baby injuring

Options were running out for the cop. Verbal warnings were repeatedly attempted, to no avail, and the hospital could've been held liable if something happened to the baby after being illegally removed. What other non-physical alternatives were there?
 
2007-04-16 05:25:52 PM  
BooBoo23: However did things like this ever get solved before tasers?

I guess they just waited for the kid to turn up...
 
2007-04-16 05:26:05 PM  
KaponoFor3

Sure, it's no crime, but it is absolute stupidity.

Now on that, we can 100% agree. Especially when you are holding a newborn and know how trigger happy cops can be.
 
2007-04-16 05:26:42 PM  
Dancin_in_Anson
Absolutely. And an anti kidnapping alarm went off.

I guess we should just ignore things like that.


God, nobody's the master of the logical fallacy like you, DIA.

Let's spot what fallacy this one is.

Anti-Kidnapping alarms are installed in the hospital, and sound when somebody is attempting to leave with his baby.

Do you respond by:

a) Ignoring the alarms.
c) Tasering the person carrying the baby.

You'll notice I've excluded b to give you a hint as to the logical fallacy used here. It is the fallacy of the excluded middle!

Example: b) Have two security guards physically detain the suspect so that one may extract the baby while the other subdues him.

By the way, I know you're pro-authoritarian DIA, but we still live in a world where babies don't belong to hospitals. You'd do well to remember that.
 
2007-04-16 05:26:52 PM  
Leaving a hospital without clearance is simply called "AMA." It reads: Against Medical Orders. Nothing happens to you, because they can't legally hold you, unless the court deems you must remain in a psych. ward for no longer than 36 hours. (This may vary by state, however).

All other escapes are perfectly legal. However, the father shouldn't leave with the baby, and without the mother. It'd look fishy to me, and I'd call the REAL police, instead of tasering someone holding a baby. EVER.

All parties involved are asshats.
 
2007-04-16 05:26:54 PM  
Reverend Otis: Explosive collar on the baby.

Think Battle Royale.
 
2007-04-16 05:27:09 PM  
gilgigamesh: Now on that, we can 100% agree. Especially when you are holding a newborn and know how trigger happy cops can be.

Hell yeah it is. There will be a lawsuit, and it will be settled out of court. Stupid all around.
 
2007-04-16 05:27:11 PM  
If the guy was kidnapping the baby and the security guard / cops just let him walk out of the hospital and get into a car and drive away, we'd be screaming, 'Why didn't they DO something??? WHY WHY???'

/if you don't want to get tazered - obey the cop that is pointing his tazer at you.
//i have yet to see the cop fire the tazer at anyone that was following instructions. it's always the guy doing the OPPOSITE of what the cop is instructing them to do.
 
2007-04-16 05:27:13 PM  
The baby had a "Welcome to the real world" experience quite early in life. Unfortunately it will not be the last as she has a father who likes to ignore police directives and a mother who likes to blame everyone else but themselves. Good luck kid. You can pick your nose, but you can't pick your parents.
 
2007-04-16 05:27:47 PM  
2007-04-16 05:21:56 PM Sinto


The hospital wasn't trying to stop the man from leaving by himself. But if you walk out with a newborn without going through the proper channels, it does raise some literal alarms. And most new parents don't leave the hospital in the middle of the night.


The Don't have loco parentis powers over the child either, so the nautral mother and father are the sole persons able to make decisions for the child as well. In fact under an archiac bit of common law, still fully in force however, the child is chattel (literally property) of the parents.
 
2007-04-16 05:28:00 PM  
Options were running out for the cop. Verbal warnings were repeatedly attempted, to no avail, and the hospital could've been held liable if something happened to the baby after being illegally removed. What other non-physical alternatives were there?

How about just following him until he stops? Presumably he will go to a car, and when he puts the baby in the car, cuff him.
 
2007-04-16 05:28:52 PM  
we must protect this baby at all costs

FIRE THE TASER AT THEM
 
2007-04-16 05:29:43 PM  
smblion


darkhorse23
This is also very very true. To hold someone in the hospital, without a court order, is considered kidnapping.

Could you cite the law you're referring to?

Also, for future reference, making your text larger and brighter than everyone elses does not make your opinion more valid, nor does it automatically qualify as 'last word'.. you may want to just try presenting valid and well conceived points in the future.




False Imprisionment

Assault and Battery

Without;

(a) a order of 5150

(b) Obvious mental incapacitation, w/ Implied consent
(c) orders of a court order guardian of a minor or someone adjucated incompetent to make decisions for themselves
 
2007-04-16 05:29:54 PM  
Dr. Mojo PhD: It is the fallacy of the excluded middle!

No, it's not.

You're mixing False Dilemma, which is what's going on here, with the Law of the Excluded Middle, which says that, for every p either p is true or it is false.
 
2007-04-16 05:29:54 PM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2007-04-16 05:31:00 PM  
You've really got to be an idiot to taser a human being holding a two day old infant several feet above a floor made of concrete.

Not to be outdone though, you've got to be twice as idiotic to defend such behavior on an internet chat forum.
 
2007-04-16 05:31:15 PM  
I'm a newborn who fell to the floor when my daddy was tasered so I'm getting a kick out of some of these replies.
 
2007-04-16 05:31:48 PM  
They wouldn't let us leave the hospital without a car seat for the baby the wife in a wheelchair and an entourage of staff to make sure Baby went straight fromt the secure ward to the car. I believe these folks were trying to pull something. Why wouldn't you let them take the anti-theft alarm off at least?
 
2007-04-16 05:31:59 PM  
Because being a REAL man means sometime you need to spike your newborn's head into the sidewalk to prove you're not afraid of standing up to The Man.

Jackass. If you're going to get into a dicksizing competition with the cops and the hospital staff, at least have the guts to do it without using a kid as a prop.
 
2007-04-16 05:32:14 PM  
//i have yet to see the cop fire the tazer at anyone that was following instructions.

There was a video on fark a while back where a student in a library gets tased five or six times while he's complying with the rent-a-cop's orders to leave.

The cop even continues to tase him after he falls to the ground helpless from being repeatedly tased.

It happens. And predictably, people were on here defending that too.

Anyone have a link?
 
2007-04-16 05:32:21 PM  
Maybe the Dad is an idiot - and I can understand being obstinate when it comes to YOUR kid - but the officer was a bigger idiot.

I never realized hospitals were strict & so serious about newborns with regards to alarms (which went off anyway at the hospital I was at) and inspecting your carseat before leaving the hospital until I had my own kid. But damn, have some farking sense!
 
2007-04-16 05:32:29 PM  
Trojan_Whore: You've really got to be an idiot to taser a human being holding a two day old infant several feet above a floor made of concrete.

Not to be outdone though, you've got to be twice as idiotic to defend such behavior on an internet chat forum.


Spoken like a true USC Trojan -- nice and elitist, casting others who disagree with them as idiots. Well played, Tommy.
 
2007-04-16 05:32:34 PM  
Bubba-work: People bring this on themselves.

Yeah, stupid baby - what was it thinking? Newborns are such 'tards.
 
2007-04-16 05:32:47 PM  
whitetrashcompactor: cops lie


more often than most people would believe.
 
2007-04-16 05:33:40 PM  
unemployed_philosopher
No, it's not.

You're mixing False Dilemma, which is what's going on here, with the Law of the Excluded Middle, which says that, for every p either p is true or it is false.


No, I'm not. You're equivocating the Law of the Excluded Middle with the Fallacy of the Excluded Middle, which is a synonym for the False Dilemma, Bifurcation, Faulty Dilemma, etc.

Oops.
 
2007-04-16 05:34:06 PM  
gilgigamesh: There was a video on fark a while back where a student in a library gets tased five or six times while he's complying with the rent-a-cop's orders to leave.

This is the UCLA incident I was talking about. You have the story wrong. The guy was asked to show ID or leave. He chose to be belligerent, saying he would only show ID if the cops asked others in the library to do so as well. Cops started escorting him off the premises and then tazered him in the lobby.
 
2007-04-16 05:34:20 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson

Let's agree, for the sake of argument, that Dad deserved to be tasered.

So that's not an issue.

The issue is now: how do we protect the babies?

If someone is holding on to a baby, it seems obvious that if the person were to become unable to hold onto the baby, it would fall to the floor. So employing an incapacitating electric shock does not seem to really fulfill the mission statement here.
 
2007-04-16 05:35:01 PM  
They should just taser everybody leaving the hospital so guys like this can't complain about unfair treatment.
 
2007-04-16 05:35:27 PM  
KaponoFor3
Spoken like a true USC Trojan -- nice and elitist, casting others who disagree with them as idiots. Well played, Tommy.

The irony of this statement is overwhelming.
 
2007-04-16 05:35:33 PM  
HomerButt: HIS baby. He broke no laws. The hospitals would LIKE you to believe you can't leave without their "permission", but you CAN leave at any time.

No, the WOMAN'S baby. The hospital is liable for the mother and infant, NOT for this farkhead who decided to prance out the door with a 2-day old baby at 1:30 a.m. Had he walked, she would have been screaming at the hospital for letting him take her child.

The woman had had a C-section; typically a 3- or 4-day stay for recovery, and the baby stays with her, partly since the mother may be breastfeeding. The baby CAN be released; but most mothers want to keep the baby with them.
 
2007-04-16 05:35:50 PM  
gilgigamesh
How about just following him until he stops? Presumably he will go to a car, and when he puts the baby in the car, cuff him.

Or maybe he just wants to toss him down the stairs, who knows? We'll just follow him and see!
 
2007-04-16 05:36:22 PM  
If a cop^H^H^H knuckle-dragging thug tells you to stop, you stop.

FTFY

If a cop tortures you with electric shocks, you sue.
 
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