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(ft.com)   China upset at U.S. over WTO complaints. Threatens to embargo exports of poisoned wheat gluten   (ft.com) divider line 67
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3136 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2007 at 8:22 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-04-10 08:10:25 PM  
You know what would be really funny? If we (the US) decided to stop importing from China. Shift everything we import from China over to, say, Taiwan. Or South Korea. Their entire economy would collapse, and their country would spiral down into crap. Want to rattle swords with us? Fine -- we'll get our $.99 t-shirt made by KOREAN 8-year-olds, thank you ver much.
 
2007-04-10 08:25:39 PM  
Woof!
 
2007-04-10 08:25:45 PM  
yeah, fark China!
 
2007-04-10 08:25:54 PM  
That'd be kind of hard to implement.
 
2007-04-10 08:26:57 PM  
Better yet, shift production to Africa. Sticks it to the Chinese plus gives a less-than-dirt-poor peasant a big boost in his or her income.
 
2007-04-10 08:28:38 PM  
You know what would be really funny? If we (the US) decided to stop importing from China.

Yeah... what's even funnier is that 'we' aren't really the US. Wal*Mart, KMart, Target and all the other importer/distributer/retailers are. And if you think 'they' give a rat's fat ass about what 'we' think... well... better just start learning how to use chopsticks now and avoid the rush.
 
2007-04-10 08:29:42 PM  
And so it begins.
 
2007-04-10 08:30:20 PM  
floor9: Their entire economy would collapse, and their country would spiral down into crap. Want to rattle swords with us? Fine -- we'll get our $.99 t-shirt made by KOREAN 8-year-olds, thank you ver much.

they would shift their consumer base, raise prices, and sell to Europe and Asia, Just like they did when we laid heavy tarrif's on textiles in the 70's

We would end up paying 2 to 3 times as much for the same products due to lack of manufacturing capacity and the learning curve.

would solve nothing but make 20 people look smug
 
2007-04-10 08:30:36 PM  
I think youre gonna have trouble finding 1 billion cheap workers in Taiwan.
 
2007-04-10 08:30:40 PM  
Better yet, produce stuff in the united states and stop pretending its a great idea to use a foreign labor force because they don't need to be treated the same way we all would expect to be treated. Theres a reason we have laws in the US concerning pollution, labor wages, labor safety and a variety of other things. When certain people figured out that you can still exploit people as long as they aren't citizens of this country to save a dime, they weren't brilliant, they were unethical assholes. Consumers need to stop supporting them.
 
2007-04-10 08:32:12 PM  
@ floor9 Tiawan nor SK have the cheap manpower and capcity to do even compete with China now if China dump the dollar and go with the Euro there goes our Economy
We need China as bad as they need us
 
2007-04-10 08:32:19 PM  
You mean you'd rather bankrupt China just to punish them for poisoning a few dogs and cats?

Think of the chillun!

/ate a puppy for breakfast
 
2007-04-10 08:32:23 PM  
It had to happen sooner or later. This is how WWIII starts, ladies and gentlemen. It starts with an embargo on T-shirts and cheap plastic toys. We've still got a couple ICBMs, right?
 
2007-04-10 08:36:32 PM  
Oh noes, where will I get my $.05 cheaper crap that can't last a year without breaking now?
 
2007-04-10 08:38:32 PM  
NickelP: When certain people figured out that you can still exploit people as long as they aren't citizens of this country to save a dime, they weren't brilliant, they were unethical assholes. Consumers need to stop supporting them.

How much would an iPod cost if it was produced in America? and would you pay that price? if you won't pay then you are in that group of unethical assholes.
 
2007-04-10 08:40:59 PM  
works both ways. we export some raw materials to China, not to mention reducing the quantity supplied from China would greatly reduce the overall available amount of these lower priced goods and drive the price up. the only country in the world that can even come close to China in labor is India.

China is definitely one of the countries with the most to gain from the WTO... While I'm against it, I think it is inevitable. If the WTO fails this time, it will keep coming back up.
 
2007-04-10 08:41:59 PM  
Didn't I read about this on the main page already? Is this some sort of follow up?

/DRTFA
 
2007-04-10 08:42:26 PM  
I'd love to bankrupt china, just to watch them die. I'd love that. The chinese government (like ours) is chock full of liars, thieves, and shysters. Their merchandise is CRAP. And will remain so.
 
2007-04-10 08:45:05 PM  
Kanemano
Not sure exactly, I seriously doubt costs would rise more then ten percent. I probably would pay it. A lot of stuff I buy comes from china, it pretty much has to anymore.
 
2007-04-10 08:46:27 PM  
LOL @ the WW3 fear mongering. China does not have the capability to stand up to the US in a conventional war. Maybe in 50 years...

In fact, China would be a perfect target for us because our army was built to destroy huge, conventional armies. Not a bunch of anonymous ragheads shotting behind buildings and civilians.
 
2007-04-10 08:48:39 PM  
floor9

I doubt you'll find cheap unskilled labor in Korea and Taiwan. Unless you can time warp us back 30+ years...
 
2007-04-10 08:56:06 PM  
I buy stuff made in China and getting a kick out of this.
 
2007-04-10 08:57:13 PM  
China is going to destroy you economically, not militarily. They ship you loads of cheap crap, but those dollars you ship in return are still pretty good quality. Haha on you.
 
2007-04-10 08:57:53 PM  
2007-04-10 08:38:32 PM Kanemano


I won't pay for one now at ANY price. I see all you disconnected assholes jamming out, not paying attention to anything else at all, totally self-absorbed...... And I think, wow, what a bunch of self absorbed, disconnected, selfish assholes. "Hey, man, don't hassle me, I'm listening to Modest Mouse...it totally speaks to my disconnected, urban angst...who are the Talking Heads??..."


\gets old......
 
2007-04-10 08:59:22 PM  
omg teh azn thread!!!

www.orlyowl.com
 
2007-04-10 09:00:06 PM  
Cheap labor does not equal low cost goods, cheap labor equals bigger shareholder profits. The real reason we don't want to pay american workers is simply because sharholders won't realise as big a return.
 
2007-04-10 09:01:13 PM  
Zexyness

What's the standard for victory? Certainly, no Chinese tanks rolling through D.C. are possible, but neither are American tanks rolling through Beijing...well, maybe Beijing, but we sure as hell couldn't control the country.

As for the others, the trade-warriors: it's too farking late. Loose trading policies with the PRC farked you in the ass, people. They have too much of our currency and supply too many of our consumer goods for us to seriously screw with them. Look at the numbers and think really hard the next time you vote.
 
2007-04-10 09:02:35 PM  
Poisoned wheat gluten? There goes their livestock feed.

/General Tso's Spicy Mr. Boots, anyone?
 
2007-04-10 09:06:31 PM  
The Americans, Germans, French and Russians are all idots... What did they think China was going to do, Not steal the technology.
 
2007-04-10 09:06:50 PM  
China needs the DIAF tag, but so do the overweight, under-educated mouth-breathers that shop at Walmart.
 
2007-04-10 09:07:29 PM  
Cheap labor equals lost production costs. If companies decides to pass that lower cost on to us or keep prices as the same point to increase earnings is a different matter. Typically though for low cost consumer goods, there is little differentiation and companies are forced to compete in regards to price, so that savings will be passed on to us. Most stuff in the big box stores the manufacturer doesn't sell traditionally either(IE they don't sell at a set price). The big box stores name a price that you can produce at using foreign labor, and say thats what they are willing to pay. If you don't want to produce in china they won't buy from you. Now pretend your a big consumer products company, and your #1 customer, who covers 30% of yoru sales says they won't buy from you if you continue to produce in america, what are your options really?

That situation has put many companies out of busienss that refused to take production out of this country. Rubbermade is one example.
 
2007-04-10 09:10:52 PM  
I may have to go out of my way to do this, but I avoid buying cheap, Chinese-made crap. If everyone else did this, retailers would get the message.

Why can't we have manufacturing in Mexico and other countries? That would solve 2 problems at the same time.
 
2007-04-10 09:11:06 PM  
Simple solution- reciprocal trade restrictions. Our markets will be as open to their goods as their markets are open to our goods.

Sweaty Jerry: They have too much of our currency and supply too many of our consumer goods for us to seriously screw with them. Look at the numbers and think really hard the next time you vote

I would contend it's the exact opposite- they need our money a hell of a lot more than we need their goods. It's a lot easier for us to find new manufacturers than it is for them to find new customers.
 
2007-04-10 09:18:22 PM  
Bah, let oil get past $70/barrel. Suddenly all this "let's cart scrap iron to China and ship back golf clubs to the US" will stop making economic sense.

Well until they switch container ships to nuclear power...
 
2007-04-10 09:19:35 PM  
NineInchNader: 'we' aren't really the US. Wal*Mart, KMart, Target and all the other importer/distributer/retailers are.

That is, until we demand going back to tariffs and getting some anti-transfer-pricing laws going.
 
2007-04-10 09:23:01 PM  
Hate to break it to y'all but Chinese labor is not going to be cheap forever. We'll be lucky if it lasts 5 years. Even now wages are shooting up and job turnover is 25%+.

Which means prices in the stores will be shooting up real soon. Raw materials are already up, look at steel and oil. On top of that, by sending all our manufacturing there, we dragged 1 billion+ people out of poverty and made them middle-class, SUV-driving consumers.

I think we all need to pat ourselves on the back for a job well-done, but the golden age of cheap toys and cheap gas is just about over.
 
2007-04-10 09:26:45 PM  
They have too much of our currency and supply too many of our consumer goods for us to seriously screw with them. Look at the numbers and think really hard the next time you vote


I remember those kind of panicky comments regarding Japan back in the 60's. OMG they are shipping too many cheap consumer goods...

Chinas economy is growing and will probably surpass all others eventually. But it will come at a cost.
Bethlehem Steels old polluting BOF was sold to them...to go pollute mainland China.

You won't change the global economy by not buying a clock radio....


/BTW Mexico already is involved in manufacturing... has been.
 
2007-04-10 09:33:49 PM  
Would the average consumer be better off (or even willing) to purchase tube socks made with $1.50 an hour labor or $15.00 an hour labor? Yes, it sucks that unskilled laborers in North America are suffering. However, former "workshop" economies like Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea have adapted, why can't we do the same?

A lot of products are "made in China" but very little is "made by China". Many of their high value exports are assembled from parts imported from around the globe. Simply screwing parts together adds very little value to the final product e.g. home computers are high value exports but trade figures can be deceiving. They're actually made with processors from the U.S., motherboards from Taiwan, memory chips from Korea, etc.

Many of China's globally competitive exports are products of joint ventures with western companies. Success in China helps buoy the bottom line -- to the benefit of the company, shareholders and even employees. Some may argue with this point. I believe a successful company is better than a bankrupt one.
 
2007-04-10 09:35:53 PM  
Damned Chinese greenlights. Two hours after the first one you have another one.
 
2007-04-10 09:40:21 PM  
robogun is correct, turnover is INSANE in China. My company makes equipment in the electronics industry for quality assurance. It requires some training to use. I trained 7 guys at a factory, 8 weeks later we get a call saying a part broke, and they need me to come fix it. We ship the part, and I arrive about 2 weeks later.

They have already installed the part we shipped-they didn't need me to install it, they needed me to train more people, because in 8 weeks ALL 7 of the guys I trained changed jobs. Why-well because they were "trained" now and could find better work. Keep in mind-this is in a country where its COMMON to receive 2+ months of wages as a bonus every year, and nothing if you leave.

The chinese are worried about India and Korea taking jobs away from them. They know that slave wages made thier economy possible, but the people want to make more $.

I honestly believe that a combination of wage increases, competition from India, bureaucracy, and corruption is going to FARK China. Big time. India is going to be the next big place. I think China is going to hit a road bump, and when it does its all going to start coming apart, with major corruption scandels.

In the meantime, I think its highly appropriate to start WTO actions. We've followed the "be patient me and my negotiaters can work this out" line too long as it as. Thats like saying "yeah take it in the ass hard now, and as we get further into this I will slow down some". Uhmm...no they're going to keep doing it to us until they are happy, and we're just sore in the butt and thrown away like some cheap hooker.
 
2007-04-10 09:42:20 PM  
totalsecurity -- "Why can't we have manufacturing in Mexico and other countries? That would solve 2 problems at the same time."

Then people would be complaining about Mexico or whereever instead of China.

robogun -- "Hate to break it to y'all but Chinese labor is not going to be cheap forever. We'll be lucky if it lasts 5 years. Even now wages are shooting up and job turnover is 25%+."

I just visited a factory in Guangzhou. The owner complained about the difficulty attracting and retaining good employees, high taxes and rising utility costs. LOL, success does have a price.
 
2007-04-10 09:43:19 PM  
"The decision to file the cases amid pressure from Congress and Hollywood"

China should just spit in their faces and ask for full payment of all outstanding debts from the USA.

Hollywood and Congress, the same azzholes going after single moms and their kids for piracy. Fark them.
 
2007-04-10 09:43:52 PM  
D_moran, Its a trade DEFICIT. Yeah they buy the cpu or whatever from here, but they sell the whole thing back to us.

They buy cotton [or whatever], make something out of it and sell it to us.

so lets say they buy 10 Billion a month from us, they are selling back 30 Billion. 30-10=20.

Not a good deal for us.
 
2007-04-10 09:45:01 PM  
WayneBuckwheat I'd love to bankrupt china, just to watch them die.

There's a country song in there somewhere.
 
2007-04-10 09:46:51 PM  
Oh BTW-We're not the only ones china farks this way. pretty much every country they trade with has the same issue.
 
2007-04-10 10:03:47 PM  
Zexyness: In fact, China would be a perfect target for us because our army was built to destroy huge, conventional armies. Not a bunch of anonymous ragheads shotting behind buildings and civilians.

Too bad we've spent billions reworking our military with disturbingly accurate munitions and unmanned developments that we're relatively weak against a conventional force now.

Not saying we're weak, just not as strong as if all the money we throw at our military were put to a better use than changing crap all the time.
 
2007-04-10 10:04:04 PM  
Greywar -- "It's a trade DEFICIT."

I know.

"Yeah, they buy the cpu or whatever from here, but they sell the whole thing back to us."

Just who are "they"? Lenovo, Toshiba, Sony or Apple?
 
2007-04-10 10:10:01 PM  
Maybe we can get Antigua to mediate?
 
2007-04-10 10:18:15 PM  
submitter: China upset at U.S. over WTO complaints. Threatens to embargo exports of poisoned wheat gluten


Awesome submitter.

And for their next trick, selling us their surplus poisoned baby milk?

/yeah, so only 12 babies died, but the firm was fined $24,000 .... so ..... yeah.
 
2007-04-10 10:19:48 PM  
Gothmolly: China needs the DIAF tag, but so do the overweight, under-educated mouth-breathers that shop at Walmart.


I know that Wal*Mark is supposed to be evil and all, but - what's with the vitriol for the people who buy inexpensive home goods?
 
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