Look! When I've got these antlers on I am dictating, and when I take them off, I'm not dictating!

The website linked there has some stills from North Korean propaganda footage of the Pueblo crew. The sailors and marines of the Pueblo surreptitiously flashed the middle finger at every opportunity. When discovered, they told the Norks that it was a "Hawaiian good luck sign". Of course, when their captors found out the true meaning (thanks to an article in Time magazine!) the men were beaten for it.

MidnMike: In the US we have a code of conduct for servicepersons captured by an enemy... In summary, it says that they're not to sign or speak any statements given to them by their captors... Many of our Vietnam vets endured years of torture while upholding their code, but this chick seems to have cracked like an egg from the moment the Iranian Navy pulled up.

I hate to interrupt your "Rah! Rah!" chest-thumping...

CIA members who've undergone the technique as part of their training have lasted an average of 14 seconds before begging to be released. The Navy SEALs once used water boarding in their counter-interrogation training, but they stopped because the trainees could not survive it without breaking, which was bad for morale.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/water-boarding.htm (pops)

Oh Royal Navy, what the hell happened? You used to be cool.

I for one believe this one hundred percent. I bet when the rescuers finally come she turns them away and causes them infidels. Yep, she's seen the light.

The propaganda is for these people:

Fantine71 [TotalFark]
/This woman clearly does not represent the finest traditions of the British Navy.

How so?

While I disagree with the illegal actions of the Iranian government in this matter, this "sailor" clearly caved in like a cardboard house during a snowstorm.

I am not saying that I wouldn't fall to torture, with God's protection I will never know how well I would stand up to such treatment. But I do know for damn sure that I would be making these statements with AT LEAST one less eye and a few broken fingers.

It's sad that we put our women in harms way like this.

Loose_Cannon: Ok, I've had enough. This is the last straw.

We need a Delta or SEAL team to extract these hostages and show the Religious Fundamentalist government in Iran that they can't continue to bully our Religious Fundamentalist government without repercussions.

Seriously, though, Iran has been behind every kidnapping in the Mideast for the last 30 years. Enoughs enough. Let's show them we can do more then express 'Grave Concern', like the UN, and send a team in to get our Allies out of there.

Bet the Ayatollah would pissed his pants if we did this and they'd think twice before taking another US/British hostage.

Man up!

O...K...

First, Yah, Iran hasn't been behind EVERY kidnapping...but, whatever.

Second, you are aware of how well things went the last time we sent Delta into Iran, right?

No so pretty.

How 'bout this, and it's just an idea, but how 'bout we stop bullying Iran so doggedly, so that the government of Iran can't use us as a bogeyman to frighten the Iranian people, who are largely sick of them, into keeping them in power.

A lot of this wouldn't have happened if we hadn't been such colossal, meddling dicks for the past 60-70 years of Iran's history (at least).

Or, you know, kill them all. Which ALWAYS works.

2007-03-30 09:26:36 AM ChairmanKaga

This is why we have rules, and this is why we ourselves need to respect those rules.

We are in no longer in a position to critic the Iranians after Gitmo and Abu Garab.

Of course, with tirty seconds of thought, anyone could realize that is not case at all. There's lots of ways I could point out how different these situations are that you're comparing, and argue that one doesn't somehow "negate" the other. Like, for instance, England != United States and terrorist != serviceman in uniform. I could go on and on, but, frankly, I've already lost enthusiasm. What's the point in arguing with someone who's already so far down that road? You most likely don't want to hear any actual logic that might threaten your preconceptions.

MadAsshatter: Some would consider that a godwin.

??

I just picked a random innocuous country with no traditional world-superpower ambitions.

Any godwinning is totally unintentional

Loose_Cannon: We need a Delta or SEAL team to extract these hostages and show the Religious Fundamentalist government in Iran that they can't continue to bully our Religious Fundamentalist government without repercussions.

At this point, my sarcasm meter exploded.

IXI Jim IXI [TotalFark]:

http://people.howstuffworks.com/water-boarding.htm (pops)

Nobody expects the Spanish Italian inquisition!

Captain_Impavid: Counter_Intelligent: This is obviously a secret ploy instigated by the Japanese Argentinians Equatorial Guineans in order to spark nuclear war between U. S. and Iran, leaving Japan Argentina Equatorial Guinea as the world's leading superpower.

FT(again)FY

MadAsshatter: Nobody expects the Spanish Italian inquisition!

Just as long as they don't bring out the comfy chair.

What do we do if we are pretty sure both sides are full of crap? I find it unlikely that either side is innocent in this or that either side is being truthful.

The net result of the Iraq war is we have created a terrorist training ground for the next generation of jihadists, we have ensured that Iran will eventually control their oil resources and is more powerful than ever before.

So now Iran is going to push its weight around a bit. They will see just how the committed the British are to this cause. They suspect not very much. Once that is confirmed then they know it will be the US alone if there is an attack on them. They know already that we will be defeated, since there is no possible way we can take them if we can't take Iraq.

This is just posturing.

IXI Jim IXI: At this point, my sarcasm meter exploded.

yeah, i noticed that after the fact.

Captain_Impavid [TotalFark]:

??

Many escaped Nazis ran to Argentina after WWII, a number of their descendants are still there. The godwin was a stretch, but I think you pulled it off nicely. +1.

Cowboy Neal: Like, for instance, England != United States and terrorist != serviceman in uniform.

Considering that Iran is using this as rationale, and that the rest of the world has been so annoyed at us taking that "terrorist != serviceman in uniform" idea to such absurd levels, your logic might not be as logical as you think.

From the waterboarding article: "In 1947, a Japanese soldier who used water boarding against a U.S. citizen during World War II was sentenced to 15 years in U.S. prison for committing a war crime. "

Interesting...

well, attempts to rescue hostages from iran have always gone swimmingly well in the past

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

sorry for the no linky

Dorf11: Equatorial Guinea

God I hate those people. So farking arrogant and elitist.

I much prefer the citizens of Arctic Guinea

Prime Meridianal Guineans aren't bad either.

Cowboy Neal

We are in no longer in a position to critic the Iranians after Gitmo and Abu Garab.......

Of course, with tirty seconds of thought, anyone could realize that is not case at all. There's lots of ways I could point out how different these situations are that you're comparing,

You're right. As far as I know the Iranians have not anally raped any of the male sailors or tortured anyone to death.

The military in both the US and UK are told to go along with these kind of meaningless "confessions" to avoid torture.

That the Iranians continue such BS shows them to be the childish chestthumping political primitives they are. Not unlike other ridiculous wannabees like NK, Saddam, Castro and Chavez.

Noisy children with dangerous toys.

11235: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

Well, this time, we won't have either Jimmy Carter or Oliver North involved ;)

While the rest of the world knows this is complete bullshiat, those that are completely reliant on their government to spoon feed them their news, heavily laden with propaganda, will believe every word, just like this business about the holocaust being fake. They don't have much of a choice.

As much as we whine, biatch and moan about all the spin and 'liberal' or 'conservative' media, at least we have the right and ability to question and seek answers for ourselves. It isn't an ideal situation, by a long shot, but over where its kin to Farenheit 451, this is totally believable...and pretty much must be believed.

Oh yes, and the movie 300 was also anti-Iranian propaganda..remember? 9_9

Captain_Impavid: Dorf11: Equatorial Guinea

God I hate those people. So farking arrogant and elitist.

Buncha pigs...

IXI Jim IXI: Well, this time, we won't have either Jimmy Carter or Oliver North involved ;)

Hey, even one of the soldiers involved eats a peanut, and he will have brought the Curse of Carter down upon them all.

thank god for small favors.

IXI Jim IXI: your posts always seem pretty reasonable. Tell me this: do you believe, as ChairmanKagagoogoo seems to, that due to our mistakes in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo we have no right to criticize anyone else's actions? That because of our misdeeds we need to withdraw from the world stage completely?

I don't.

That said, this administration is so completely unAmerican they are an embarrassment to me, and any Americans who beleive in real freedom and accountable government.

Gitmo is a disgrace, not because I beleive stories of torture, but the idea of holding captive without charges is farking unconscienable.

The Iranians wantnooclear weapons.

I say we give them nuclear weapons.

(if you know what I mean)

downtownkid: IXI Jim IXI: your posts always seem pretty reasonable. Tell me this: do you believe, as ChairmanKagagoogoo seems to, that due to our mistakes in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo we have no right to criticize anyone else's actions? That because of our misdeeds we need to withdraw from the world stage completely?

We always have the right to criticize actions that we view to be unjust. But our mistakes...mistakes, mind you, that were signed off on by administration officials such as Gonzales and Rumsfeld, have put us in the position where our moral high ground has eroded in situations like this.

We have the right to complain...and the rest of the world has the right to call us hypocrites for doing it.

Captain_Impavid:Or, you know, kill them all. Which ALWAYS works.

As long as you get them all, then yes, it does. Graveyards are very peaceful places...

Where is your UN now? Oh, that's right. The rules don't apply to countries like Iran.

IXI Jim IXI: We have the right to complain...and the rest of the world has the right to call us hypocrites for doing it.

This, by the way...along with the fact that it was just farkin' WRONG, was one of the things that the anti-torture people were saying was going to happen from the beginning.

jshine: Graveyards are very peaceful places...

And then the zombies arrive.

adm_crunch

Look! When I've got these antlers on I am dictating, and when I take them off, I'm not dictating!

*tappety-tap-tap*
"I'm... not... dictating."
*tappy-clicky*

IXI Jim IXI: I completely agree, and I'm glad the administration has been pretty muted on the issue of the kidnapped sailors and marines. I just think the idea that we pull out of all engagement with the rest of the world is a little silly.

They're picking a fight. What the Iranians are hoping for is an air strike to put the people in line behind the gov't (and against the west) without starting a real war. I think they'd be happy if we sunk a few of their boats.


What I think we ought to give them is some infrastructure damage. They have a single refinery to make gasoline with. Level that and see if they still want to come get some.

Counter_Intelligent: There are better ways to make someone talk than breaking fingers and plucking out eyes.

Yeah, but is it funner? Eye-gouging and finger-breaking are usually not dispassionate attempts at efficient and reliable information extraction.

Here is an article with a link to the video of one of them "apologizing" on Iranian TV, looks like he's taking cues from someone offscreen.

Look, if he was dying, he wouldn't bother to carve 'aaaaaggh'. He'd just say it!

Perhaps he was dictating.

All I know is that when this woman gets back, the book deal and the made-for-tv movie will more than compensate her for her suffering.
/Might need a good editor...

RussianPooper: So, apparently, Iran wouldn't have done this if the stuff at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo didn't happen?

That's really naive.

Ok...I'm going to give you a free pass. Go back and quote where I even HINTED that that would be the case.