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(New Scientist)   The next in a long line of Fark circumcision flamewars: World Health Organization hails circumcision as vital in HIV fight   (newscientist.com) divider line 854
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5606 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2007 at 2:24 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-28 01:41:39 PM
wow, great tip.
 
2007-03-28 01:42:33 PM
www.alexross.com
Hassan was unavailable for comment.
 
2007-03-28 01:59:35 PM
wtf
 
2007-03-28 02:02:12 PM
And by circumcision, they mean male circumcision, not female mutilation

/Just saying
 
2007-03-28 02:03:24 PM
Tatsuma
wtf?? How is that relevant
 
2007-03-28 02:04:39 PM
Cue all the guys who are whining about being "cut" and how they are missing part of their penis and it's their parent's fault and they can't enjoy sex.... wah wah wah wah!

Get over it, you had it done as an infant...
 
2007-03-28 02:05:21 PM
"We reviewed all the evidence, and the evidence is compelling," says Kim Dickson, coordinator of the joint WHO/UNAIDS working group that produced the report.


There are some people in this world who are simply *born* to do certain things...
 
2007-03-28 02:05:47 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: wtf?? How is that relevant

It's a thread about circumcision. You can be sure FGM* will come up. Now, I think we can mostly all agree here that it's a barbaric practice that must stop.


/*Female Genital Mutilation
 
2007-03-28 02:06:26 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: wtf?? How is that relevant

Comes up every flamewar.
 
2007-03-28 02:07:34 PM
Tatsuma
uhh, I still dont see how mutilation is connected to circumcision or aids,

Do all pecker threads turn into discussions about cutting clitorises?
 
2007-03-28 02:07:34 PM
Tatsuma: Now, I think we can mostly all agree here that it's a barbaric practice that must stop.

It's sort of not quite in the same stadium--male circumcision is on the 50 yard line, and the female version is way the hell out in the parking lot somewhere. Far more severe.
 
2007-03-28 02:08:55 PM
muninsfire
What do you mean.. people actually support it?!?
 
2007-03-28 02:09:07 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: Do all pecker threads turn into discussions about cutting clitorises?

Yeah, they do. Always gets conflated by someone--usually it starts as a troll, but you know how flamewars are.
 
2007-03-28 02:09:30 PM
muninsfire: Comes up every flamewar.

And I'm personally glad it does. This is one of these issues where I wish it was under the spotlight more often.

In places like Egypt, more than 90% of women are "circumcised" and the same % believe that men prefer women that way (which might actually be true in Egypt) and want their daughters to be like that as well!

It's abhorrent.
 
2007-03-28 02:10:28 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: What do you mean.. people actually support it?!?

The usual flamewar is that it's a barbaric muslim practise (because most of the first-world examples are in muslim communities), to which the usual counter is that it's mostly an *African* tribal practise that was adopted by some african muslims--and it gets worse from there.
 
2007-03-28 02:11:15 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: Do all pecker threads turn into discussions about cutting clitorises?

Of course they do. It's about circumcision, you can be sure that FGM is going to be brought up, and you're going to find a few douchebags to defend it in the name of multiculturalism

muninsfire: It's sort of not quite in the same stadium--male circumcision is on the 50 yard line, and the female version is way the hell out in the parking lot somewhere. Far more severe.

It's not in the same league, it's not even the same sport.

muslim_pakistani_guy: What do you mean.. people actually support it?!?

yup, there are some here and a lot in the world
 
2007-03-28 02:11:39 PM
muninsfire
But its not even allowed in Islam
 
2007-03-28 02:11:53 PM
Tatsuma: In places like Egypt, more than 90% of women are "circumcised" and the same % believe that men prefer women that way (which might actually be true in Egypt) and want their daughters to be like that as well!

There was a book by...I want to say Heinlen, about a guy who gets cryogenically frozen and then gets thawed in the future, who's about to get laid when the chick he's about to roger gets freaked out because he's 'mutilated'--because the practise is unheard of there.

Sex seems to bring up some really freaky attitudes in this world, doesn't it?
 
2007-03-28 02:13:03 PM
You get the hell away from my peener with that knife, you crazy bastard.
 
2007-03-28 02:13:37 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: But its not even allowed in Islam

It is, however, a tribal custom in certain parts of Africa that has been subsumed within the frame of Islam in those areas--that is to say, the people who do it identify themselves as Muslims, and continue to do that practise; they then emigrate to...where was the last example in the news, Britain?...and import doctors/shamans/whatnot from their previous residence to perform the operation there--upon which there arises a Big Stink.
 
2007-03-28 02:13:49 PM
Wait a minute, those weren't Funyuns?
 
2007-03-28 02:14:42 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: But its not even allowed in Islam

Honor killings or throwing acid in the face of women isn't either

I don't think this is a Muslim phenomenon, but rather something cultural from North Africa/Middle-East that was too ingrained to leave when Islam arrived.

If you notice, FGM seems to be mostly restricted to the Africans and Arabs... I don't think I ever heard about asians having such practices, although I could be wrong
 
2007-03-28 02:14:58 PM
For countries in which condoms are not an available option (nor is giving up the "healing sex") this seems like a good option.

They're not getting near me though.
 
2007-03-28 02:15:06 PM
Tatsuma: yup, there are some here and a lot in the world

Not too many on Fark outside of the trolls, though.
 
2007-03-28 02:15:53 PM
muninsfire: There was a book by...I want to say Heinlen, about a guy who gets cryogenically frozen and then gets thawed in the future, who's about to get laid when the chick he's about to roger gets freaked out because he's 'mutilated'--because the practise is unheard of there.

You can see it's fiction, cause even in the future, you can be sure there will be two things: Coca Cola and Jews.

Also, stop explaining my points before me, in a clearer manner.
 
2007-03-28 02:16:18 PM
Tatsuma: I don't think I ever heard about asians having such practices, although I could be wrong

Look up "foot binding" for a similar sort of practise--though rather than expressing sexual dominance, it's a more generalized form. Used to be practised in China all the time; I think it was outlawed early last century--at least, *officially* outlawed.

/Though I'm pretty sure I saw a fetish website for it once.
 
2007-03-28 02:16:29 PM
muninsfire: Not too many on Fark outside of the trolls, though.

Oh, there are some. As I said, it's in the name of culturalism ("See, the women there like it! And the men, too! Who are you to say it's wrong?")
 
2007-03-28 02:17:09 PM
Seriously, though, how is it not mutilation? You're cutting off a beneficial part of your anatomy for, really, no reason. That the WHO has now found that there's some advantage with one disease that's only been relevant for a few decades doesn't explain why we've been cutting off foreskins for eons.

And don't give me that "cleanliness" crap either. It's called "bathing". It takes an extra 20 seconds in the shower to clean properly.
 
2007-03-28 02:17:45 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: But its not even allowed in Islam

Yeah, but you know... it's a cultural thing for some people.

/How are things in Karachi goin'
 
2007-03-28 02:17:46 PM
Tatsuma: You can see it's fiction, cause even in the future, you can be sure there will be two things: Coca Cola and Jews.

For Jews, you'll want Niven, IIRC. I seem to vaguely recall that there was a significant Jewish presence in a few of his books.

Also, stop explaining my points before me, in a clearer manner.

Heheheh. And to think, I'm doing it on one pot of coffee, with "Convoy" stuck in my head.
 
2007-03-28 02:18:01 PM
muninsfire: Look up "foot binding"

I told you, I don't want you to share kinky websites with me


/Of course I know about foot binding, sheesh. I wasn't saying women had it easy over there, I was saying that particular option wasn't popular.
//On the reverse, Arabs and Africans never really burned alive the widows of the recently dead on a funeral pyre either.
 
2007-03-28 02:18:51 PM
Thorak: Seriously, though, how is it not mutilation? You're cutting off a beneficial part of your anatomy for, really, no reason. That the WHO has now found that there's some advantage with one disease that's only been relevant for a few decades doesn't explain why we've been cutting off foreskins for eons.

And don't give me that "cleanliness" crap either. It's called "bathing". It takes an extra 20 seconds in the shower to clean properly.


If you bathe yourself for 70 years, that's an entire 6 days you've spent cleaning your foreskin.
 
2007-03-28 02:19:53 PM
elchip: If you bathe yourself for 70 years, that's an entire 6 days you've spent cleaning your foreskin.

I can think of worse ways to spend 6 days.
 
2007-03-28 02:19:54 PM
Tatsuma: Oh, there are some. As I said, it's in the name of culturalism

Ah, I see what you're getting at there. I'm not sure if that's an actual held belief, or more a devil's advocacy/borderline trolling thing--but then, I'm not generally the one arguing with those folk, so I haven't kept as close an eye on their arguements.

Thorak: why we've been cutting off foreskins for eons.

And don't give me that "cleanliness" crap either. It's called "bathing". It takes an extra 20 seconds in the shower to clean properly.


True, but we've only had indoor plumbing for a couple hundred years now.

Aside from the Romans, but what did they ever do for us?
 
2007-03-28 02:20:19 PM
Thorak: Seriously, though, how is it not mutilation? You're cutting off a beneficial part of your anatomy for, really, no reason.

There are religious/traditional reasons

More than 90% of Israeli Jews will circumcise their children. Something like 80% of atheist Jews do it too.
 
2007-03-28 02:20:25 PM
Thorak: I can think of worse ways to spend 6 days.

I can think of better ways to spend it, too...
 
2007-03-28 02:21:04 PM
muninsfire: Ah, I see what you're getting at there. I'm not sure if that's an actual held belief, or more a devil's advocacy/borderline trolling thing--but then, I'm not generally the one arguing with those folk, so I haven't kept as close an eye on their arguements.

Oh, on Fark, you can be sure SOMEONE is going to hold a retarded opinion

/psst, I think we got this one running as soon as it hits the ground
 
2007-03-28 02:21:23 PM
Tatsuma: I told you, I don't want you to share kinky websites with me

*shrug* Neither you nor I can stay the infinite variety and myriad wonders of Rule 34.

/Of course I know about foot binding, sheesh. I wasn't saying women had it easy over there, I was saying that particular option wasn't popular.

Oh, I know. I was just pointing out that the kink ran along a different path there.

Thorak: I can think of worse ways to spend 6 days.

Remember, if you clean it for more than three scrubs, you're playing with it.

/It's mine, and I'll clean it as hard and as long as I like!
 
2007-03-28 02:21:41 PM
The age old debate rages on ...
img67.imageshack.us or img67.imageshack.us
 
2007-03-28 02:22:17 PM
elchip: I can think of better ways to spend it, too...

Having someone else clean it for you?

Giving it a real spit and polish job?

Tatsuma: Oh, on Fark, you can be sure SOMEONE is going to hold a retarded opinion

I think that's a law of physics for the Internet in general.
 
2007-03-28 02:22:58 PM
dillenger69: The age old debate rages on ...

Shouldn't there be a badger in there for that snake?
 
2007-03-28 02:23:17 PM
dillenger69: The age old debate rages on ...

I always likened it to an elephant trunk, but I guess an anteater works too.

/doesn't have an elephant trunk/anteater
 
2007-03-28 02:23:28 PM
muninsfire: True, but we've only had indoor plumbing for a couple hundred years now.

Granted. But mutilating your pecker, for only a very small cleanliness (and no health) benefit? Doesn't seem justified, frankly.

I can understand religious reasons, but it's still a mutilation. Definitely not as damaging as FGM, by any means, but that's like saying punching a baby isn't as bad as poking it with hot irons.
 
2007-03-28 02:24:25 PM
Anyway

www.nextbook.org

I think it's frightening when it's cut off. It's like a Doberman - let it have its ears.

/thread over
 
2007-03-28 02:25:24 PM
Thorak: Granted. But mutilating your pecker, for only a very small cleanliness (and no health) benefit? Doesn't seem justified, frankly.

Better'n getting a yeast infection in there....

I can understand religious reasons, but it's still a mutilation. Definitely not as damaging as FGM, by any means, but that's like saying punching a baby isn't as bad as poking it with hot irons.

Branding is practised by some peoples, as well. And if you read up on your tribal markings, you'll find even worse--for instance, again from Africa, there are certain peoples who incise a cut into the skin, then fill the wound with ash before closing it, thus resulting in a raised scar.

They get some pretty cool designs going with that, actually; I'm sure that the next big teenage/young adult rebellion sign will be a modification of that.
 
2007-03-28 02:27:45 PM
muslim_pakistani_guy: wtf?? How is that relevant

Well, for one, there are no studies saying that cutting up a woman's hoo haw will help stop the spread of AIDS. See, that is why its relevant to distinguish it.

Time to get a lop-it-off-a-me.
 
2007-03-28 02:28:04 PM
Darth Vader > Bananas
 
2007-03-28 02:29:23 PM
i wonder if this is solely because of a loss of sensation increasing control, or whether there is another factor involved?
 
2007-03-28 02:30:28 PM
muninsfire: Branding is practised by some peoples, as well. And if you read up on your tribal markings, you'll find even worse--for instance, again from Africa, there are certain peoples who incise a cut into the skin, then fill the wound with ash before closing it, thus resulting in a raised scar.

I guess my biggest issue is that, as much as a given mutilating practice may be encouraged in a given culture, that doesn't mean other cultures will understand it. I'm not even saying it's bad, I just don't get why circumcision should be pushed, in the Western world, as much as it is.
 
2007-03-28 02:30:34 PM
I perform female genital mutilations and I am getting a kick out of the confusion.
 
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