RubyRed


I have to work on my "tact" around management, hahaha.
I was told that people are afraid of me, I'm kinda proud of that.

That's nothing to be proud of. In fact, it's kind of pathetic and juvenile.


Boobies!!!

Women should be embarrassed that they haven't earned the raises men have earned.

You sir, are a genius! 10/10

What puzzles me is, I am not sure how someone in a job that requires aggressiveness can be very successful in it if they are not aggressive enough to ask for a raise.

previous employer had TWO Assoc. Directors, a one male, a one female. salary for these positions were not DOQ, the man made $97K, the woman $72K take that sugartits...

One thing I've noticed...a man acts the same at work and outside the office. If some guy is a dick at the office, it's a guarantee he's a dick away from it too.

A woman can be night and day: almost silent at the office and a rabble-rouser out of it, or completely the other way around. Heck, I've even seen that in other ways: my 7-year-old stepdaughter just brough home a report card which referred to her as a "quiet and polite" student. We're wondering whether someone else is going to school in her place.

So, wait wait wait...if these two women are getting paid less because they have failed to ask for better raises as the article asserts, that would mean all 16 of the other men they work with HAVE actively asked for raises?

I don't think the desire to "not rock the boat" is a gender issue at all...a guy friend of mine who prides himself on being a take-charge kind of guy just accepted a promotion/more work for the same pay, when he very easily could have asked for more money. His reason? "I don't need more than what I have."

/hooray gender flamewar
/men can be p*ssies too

All_Farked_Up


The primary caregiver is almost always going to have to put their carreer on hold, that's just a fact of life.

It is not discrimination.

But... but.. but... that's not what they told me!!! I can do it all... so who cares if I need to outsource the raising of my children for 10 years... I'm a dynamic mover and shaker who marches to the beat of my own drum!

Exerpts from a Glenn Sacks article on the subject:


Full-time employed males (whether fathers or not) on average work eight hours a week more than full-time employed females. According to the International Labor Organization, the average American father works 51 hours a week, whereas those mothers of young children who do work full time (themselves a minority) work a 41-hour week.

Full-time employed females have, as a whole, 25% less job experience than their male counterparts.

Of the 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States (according to the U.S. Department of Labor), all of them are overwhelmingly or exclusively male. Over 90% of American workplace deaths and serious injuries occur to men. It is not unfair in the least that dangerous jobs pay more than safe jobs at the same skill level.

If NOW were correct that women earn 75% of what men earn for the same job, why wouldn't American businesses hire all-female work forces, cut their labor costs by 25% and annihilate their competition?

From another article:

The second question is much easier to answer than the first, so let's start there. According to the International Labor Organization, an estimated 1.1 million workers are killed in industrial accidents each year, exceeding the number killed from war, violence, road accidents and AIDS.

...The ILO doesn't keep figures by gender, but in countries where such figures are available (such as South Africa, England, Australia and Canada), the fatalities and serious injuries are usually over 90 percent male.

smedrick

PlusCestLaMeme
So, who's gonna take Jimmy to soccer practice then? You talk about childraising responsibilities like they are optional. Jimmy's only 8, but fark him, give him the car keys and let him take himself to soccer practice. Oh, he needs an emergency appendectomy? Little whippersnapper, he doesn't need a functioning appendix to drive, does he?

Try reading his post again. That's not what he said.

Actually that's a pretty good example of what he said. A man's reasoning is if you don't want this type of thing slowing up your professional career, it might be a good idea to refrain from having kids. At least, find a woman who wants to stay home (there certainly isn't a shortage of them).

Women get paid less, but at the same time they account for up to 80% percent of the discretionary spending in our economy - how the hell does that work?

I can bring home the bacon.

fry it up in a pan...

PlusCestLaMeme

Whichever parent has taken a more flexible, probably lower paid job. And most likely that's mom because the kids are probably more important to her than they are to dad who is not biologically programmed to be quite as involved or to feel quite so bad if he's not.

And I'll be laughing my ass off at all of you as you fritter away your income on shiatting, vomiting, screaming brats.

Well, if Women would just stay home like they are supposed to do this would not even be an issue.

/hides

Man: I'd like a raise

Woman: These shoes are tight.*

*(which is said in the hopes the boss will start thinking about how she must not make enough money to afford new, better fitting shoes and probably deserves a raise)

Women get paid less, but at the same time they account for up to 80% percent of the discretionary spending in our economy - how the hell does that work?


viator est answered your question.

I remember looking at the research on this in one of psych courses and the thinking then was that besides not asking for raises one of the major contributors to the salary deficit for woman was their unwillingness to negotiate salary deals when they were hired. As a man, if I negotiated an extra grand per year when hired and a female coworker didn't negotiate, I would always make more than her (assuming similar reviews, bonuses, % based raises, etc).

Moral of the story: Men are cocky and dicker more... I mean negotiate those salaries up at hire and this disparity gets a lot better.

trippdogg
Women get paid less, but at the same time they account for up to 80% percent of the discretionary spending in our economy - how the hell does that work?

There's an art form to it.

trippdogg

Women get paid less, but at the same time they account for up to 80% percent of the discretionary spending in our economy - how the hell does that work?

You're talking "discretionary" as in being "the decider," yes? Women still being primarily homemakers make the decisions on things like groceries, furniture, etc.

they should be concerned about only looking good anyway. gives the men who get the work done something to look at during the day. hot wimmins increase productivity. proven fact.

Gothnet

And I'll be laughing my ass off at all of you as you fritter away your income on shiatting, vomiting, screaming brats.

But all that shiatting, vomiting and screaming provides hours of entertainment.

Oh, but they will email up a shiatstorm.
Passive-aggressive behavior is quite healthy in the women I've worked with.

bada chish

Don't be sexist. Broads hate that.

The kitchen and laundry room give out paychecks?

NEWS TO ME!

I'd be more inclined to believe statistics from the Enquirer before I believe CNN.

I'm sure they took stats from jobs such as professional Athletes, and not professions like models where women make at least 2 times as much and have a much higher success rate as that of a career.

I Like Bread

How does

"Let me be clear, there is NOTHING wrong with being a good parent. In fact, it is THE single most important responsibility that a person can undertake." - phillyguy1547

equate to

"You talk about childraising responsibilities like they are optional" - PlusCestLaMeme

?

He's saying a mother (or father) should not expect huge pay increases if she chooses to have a child. The responsibilities are NOT optional and should be taken on, but they will also take time away from the career.

It's a natural instinct for humans to procreate. It's also a natural instinct for women to raise their children. You can choose to do both, but don't expect to be treated the same as full-time employee.

gothnet

Food for thought: if women's lower pay scales are due to biological programming, that comes pretty close to discrimination, doesn't it?

PlusCestLaMeme But all that shiatting, vomiting and screaming provides hours of entertainment.

Indeed! But I had my annual fill of it at the weekend on a 14 hour flight. Across the aisle was a family of 5. Mom, Dad and kids aged 1, 3 and 5.
All the children and dad had food poisoning and were vomiting and (except dad) screaming and wailing. Mom was up and down to the bathroom with someone every two minutes, or off to the galley to get more sick bags from the staff. She also had a huge ass and kept knocking into me.

I've had my annual dose of the joys of being around children now.

I must learn to close my tags
I must learn to close my tags
/slaps self on wrist

So, here we all are on a Tuesday morning at 11:45, comparing productivity notes.

The irony is delicious!

/for the record, the suckers I work with who make less and bust their asses trying to impress everybody, don't get half as much actually done as I do. Work SMARTER, not harder, fools.

I thought women got paid less because they are stupid.

Pro Zack

Can't a caveman get a break?

You can get your own Geico commercial ;)

mrdaewoo_alt: Same pay...same sh it ty outcome...

More hot soldier chicks, please.

RubyRed: I would have received a slightly higher raise if I didn't "speak up" as much.

This is true of both genders... I was frequently denied raises by my CEO. I am a white male but that means nothing, I wasn't his type of white male. This whole 'white males get everything' is BS... Sure, a lot of people in power a white males, but that hardly translates to the rest of us getting anything.

feralbaby: You're talking "discretionary" as in being "the decider," yes? Women still being primarily homemakers make the decisions on things like groceries, furniture, etc.

And the more amusing thing is something like two third of couples have money problems in their homes.

Aurelia, when a kid gets sick, who does he or she scream for? Mommy or Daddy? I know kids, I've got six of 'em. My wife raised 'em all. We both are of the opinion that raising a child is a full-time calling for a mother --or a father, sometimes-- and giving a kid over to day care is a disservice to a baby. I know, sometimes it can't be helped with single mothers. Doesn't change the fact. It takes a mother, not a farkin village.

Now, go find a man and bake him some cookies.

smedrick, Phillyguy did say what you quoted. But he also said:

Once you decide to have a kid, you CAN'T have the same focus on your career as someone who ISN'T a caregiver.

I don't think he was really suggesting that the decision was hers alone, only that the decision to be a CAREGIVER is hers alone. But too often, that really boils down to: he's on strike from his second career as a caregiver:
"Sorry honey, I'm too busy at the office. You're going to have to take Jimmy to soccer practice again. And don't forget, he has an emergency appendectomy after practice."
;)

Yes, it's a woman's natural instinct to raise her kids. Which implies that it isn't a man's natural instinct. But just as you can choose not to procreate, in opposition to your natural instinct, you can also choose to take care of your kids, even if you don't feel like it.

Utter nonsense.

When they work at the SAME job for the SAME length of time
women make the SAME pay.

this is a lie that just wont die.

PlusCestMeme If women's lower payscales are due to...

Err, no, not if their behaviour effectively self selects them away from higher paid work.
The other reason a lot of figures about pay are skewed is that women do tend to take on worse paid roles like caring/teaching/cleaning more than men do. The types of work and the hours that people are willing to put in determine the pay.
It's discrimination if someone is kept out of a role or payed less because of gender.
It's not discrimination if someone is paid less for doing less, regardless of gender.

Sense, no?

IdBeCrazyIf

feralbaby: You're talking "discretionary" as in being "the decider," yes? Women still being primarily homemakers make the decisions on things like groceries, furniture, etc.


And the more amusing thing is something like two third of couples have money problems in their homes.

Well, all that beer and steak we need to buy to get you all to shut up is not cheap ;)

I wouldn't have been passed over for a promotion if I didn't speak up as much.

I couldn't help it, when surrounded by asshattery it was all I could do to keep what I said on-topic and relevant to the work at hand, instead of doing what I secretly wished (to point out how much of a douche my boss was)

good thing I had a baby and quit. The pay is less but the baby is far more consistent and predictable than the boss ever was.

I love when people biatch about thinking they deserve more, but never go to speak with their boss about it. Why should the boss just give you more money when they think you are happy with what you are making. If you dont go and tell them you deserve more and why, then why in the world would they just be like "hey have more money"

Gothnet

I was kidding.

BackAssward

Well, white males do have one thing going for them, acording to an exec I know (and we'll leave it there), you can fire them for incompetence or laziness.

This exec is of the opinion that it's far better to hire a young white male for the job than anyone else because if they don't do it they'll have a much harder time taking you to court/tribunal or forcing some sort of discrimination settlement out of you. In "sue everything" culture, the anti-discrimination laws have actually backfired in some places.

feralbaby: Well, all that beer and steak we need to buy to get you all to shut up is not cheap ;)

See and you could just skip the beer and steak and go right to the blow job.

Think of it as taking one for the family wallet!

PlusCestLaMeme

Fark broke the needle on my Sarcasm-O-Meter some time ago, I must get around to having it fixed.

Women are paid less because nobody likes putting up with their constant mood swings, complete biatchiness to each other, and the fact that they hold grudges from the day they start at an office until the day they retire.

Then there's the fact that their productivity is always down because they're complaining about female problems.

Then there's the added risk of sexual harrasment lawsuits.

THAT is why women are paid less.