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(Reuters)   As expected Vista sales at one month were double those of XP over its first month   (today.reuters.com) divider line 374
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9171 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2007 at 7:58 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-26 09:11:59 PM
"I'm not using it and know nothing about it, therefore it's crap." I have nothing against honest criticism - if you don't like a product, that's great. I just don't understand this bizarre operating system cult mentality.

What's REALLY fun is when it appears in the minds of managers with non-technical minds and the proceed to fark shiat up because of it.

Some years back, at a company that I have since abandoned for reasons that will be clear in a moment, there was a huuuuuge battle over Windows VS Unix. All the backend servers ran Solaris, and all the geeky techy guys liked it that way because the machines were stable and secure and (let's not kid ourselves) ubergeeks love Unix. But then some idiot manager who was raised on Windows found out and *demanded* that all the system be switched over to Windows immediately. His only reason was that he didn't understand why we were using an operating "from the 1970s" (as he put it), and he refused to comprehend that the variant we were using was only about two years old at the time (Solaris 7). It got so bad that about half the ubergeeks wound up quitting over it. I quit, too. Not because I'm a hardcore Unix fanatic but because I wanted to get away from the terrible environment and the retarded decisions that that stupid manager brought to the table.

(That company went bankrupt a couple years later. LOL)
 
2007-03-26 09:13:11 PM
Hand Banana: The problem is 7of7, you are to Microsoft what Bevets is to religion.

I never really cared about Microsoft either way but the fact that so many people are so intent on trying to destroy it by making shiat up makes me stabby. Sites like the Slashdot Veterans for Truth churn out day after day of complete bullshiat and idiots just eat it up. There are people in this very thread parroting the lies that have been thoroughly disproved. Sheeple make me a little sick.

It's the same with Sony. I'm not even in a social class high enough to buy most of Sony's crap but when there are hordes of idiots spreading outright lies about the company it just makes me angry. Besides, there's nothing better than creating cognitive dissonance in a Nintendo/Apple/Linux zealot.
 
2007-03-26 09:14:04 PM
i think Vista will be just fine when SP1 comes out. They rushed it out the door, yes, but much of the issue people are having with it could be hardware related. If your PoS 2000 can't handle it, wait or upgrade your hardware or stick with XP. There is no reason AT ALL to buy Vista yet.

YET.

The new code base will result in some awesome results for those who a) have the machine that handle it, b) actually know something about how to run a computer and c) get the right version for their use.
 
2007-03-26 09:15:03 PM
One of our Microso~1 fanboys upstairs in Marketing ordered a laptop from lleD with Vista. The dumbass didn't get the Vista that actually logs into the network... but that's another story.

So me and the entire IT department sit there and unwrap this thing like an xmas present. The first Vista box in the building. And we look. And we look. And that look of anticipation turned into that look a 7 year old gives you after unwrapping the third sweater in a row.

6 IT folk, not a one found a nice thing to say about it. Not one.
 
2007-03-26 09:16:48 PM
apeiron242

i think Vista will be just fine when SP1 comes out. They rushed it out the door, yes, but much of the issue people are having with it could be hardware related.

Hold the phone. Three years late and devoid of ANY promised feature is "pushing it out the door?"

God I'd hate to know how long the release would have been if they'd taken their sweet old time.
 
2007-03-26 09:19:03 PM
My issues with XP were the common ones: concern about security and performance.

I'd love for Microsoft to release (through patches, service packs, whatever) major changes to the underlying OS that revamp security. I like how in Mac OS X, one requires the administrator password to install software or make major changes. It'd be helpful if such a requirement were done on XP.

As for performance, I'm getting 60+ fps in World of Warcraft on "absurdly high graphics mode" with a two year old Nvidia GeForce 6600GT and 1GB of RAM. Sure, it lags a bit in Stormwind, but oh well.

I'd like to see performance increases in the OS, as well as making things more efficient, but I'd rather them be done to Windows XP, rather than Vista. As much as I like Windows 2000, I think XP was the best OS that Microsoft has yet released. My experience with Vista lasted a few minutes on a friends computer, and was frustrating in the extreme.
 
2007-03-26 09:19:18 PM
Just as I thought. We're getting opinions from people that have actually used Vista, and they're not all "Blah, blah Microsoft sucks, OSX rules."

It's exactly the same thing as the Playstation 3 is suffering from, an overall public opinion formed completely by the opinions of a few, without anyone actually thinking for themselves.
 
2007-03-26 09:24:38 PM
7of7: I never really cared about Microsoft either way but the fact that so many people are so intent on trying to destroy it by making shiat up makes me stabby. Sites like the Slashdot Veterans for Truth churn out day after day of complete bullshiat and idiots just eat it up. There are people in this very thread parroting the lies that have been thoroughly disproved. Sheeple make me a little sick.

It's the same with Sony. I'm not even in a social class high enough to buy most of Sony's crap but when there are hordes of idiots spreading outright lies about the company it just makes me angry. Besides, there's nothing better than creating cognitive dissonance in a Nintendo/Apple/Linux zealot.


Just to offer some support...

100% in agreement...

I have an old Nintendo, a PlayStation 2, a Dreamcast, and I love all of them.

I Love Kodak digital cameras because of the colours, and overall quality. My big camera is a Sony. My PCs are Acer, HP and a built machine, all run great.

I don't like Apple machines because they never performed well every time that I used them, and some of my dislike comes from the fanboys' obsession over them. But also, I like the software that I use on a daily basis, and these aren't available on any other platforms anyways.

I don't like Adobe, but I do enjoy Corel.

I can do amazing things with my choice or software, but I've seen some amazing stuff done with Adobe stuff...

But like in every thread, people must push their superiority, and/or validate themselves, and/or justify their investments.

But then again, some are just asshats...

If one has an opinion, then validate it, but these jerks do nothing more than be a bunch of asshats... what can you do?
 
2007-03-26 09:25:30 PM
That's pretty amazing considering that XP was replacing the worst OS in history. I'm looking at you, Windows ME.
 
2007-03-26 09:26:14 PM
7of7: Sheeple make me a little sick.

lol
 
2007-03-26 09:28:41 PM
its too bad XP isn't cheaper, I'd like to run boot camp on my mac so i can check out websites I build in windows easier.
 
2007-03-26 09:29:21 PM


2007-03-26 08:38:51 PM imfallen_angel

Donald_McRonald: Can someone tell me why there are MS fanboys?

For the simple reason that there will be fanboys about anything.

And honestly, in this thread, you have the idiots that can't do anything more than bash anything that they aren't in the club for.

There are those that probably don't have a clue on how to have a smooth running machine, and those that don't get that their old machine with their various parts can't do what a new machine (built on tested specs) can, at least, for a while, just like any OS does when it comes out.

If those people have any brains, they should STFU, and wait a good 6 months to a year for the patches for their older components gets revised for this new OS. (that's been the same for all previous versions, and truly NOT MS's fault... come on, use common sense here)

The fact remains that MS did a fairly good job at keeping XP compatible with the software from previous version, and I hope that they did it again.

I'm NOT a MS fan whatsoever, but I will give them credit. To built an OS that is compatible with so many tangents is quite an accomplishment.

As I mentioned, I am a newbie with Vista, and plan to play with it BEFORE I make my opinion GOOD OR BAD about it.

/why can't people grow up... oh well...


Hardly a compelling post.

"I'm NOT a MS fan whatsoever, but I will give them credit. To built an OS that is compatible with so many tangents is quite an accomplishment."



Most everything that has been broken in regard to backwards compatibility was due to poorly designed api replacements, instead of taking the time to incorporate additional features on top of existing api's.

IBM has large systems that can easily run code written in the 1960's. At the same time, it can run the latest gcc compiler and any number of open source software, along with the latest J2EE apps. The same can be said about most Unix or Linux OS's, though the history would be shorter.

Microsoft deserves credit for a lot of things, but backwards compatibility would be at the bottom of the list.
 
2007-03-26 09:29:33 PM
Its funny how in the last month i've loaded four new pc's with xp to get rid of vista. I remember the same problems when they rolled out xp. No one would tolerate a new car with as many problems. Microsoft depends on its deals with the major pc manufacturers to keep its market dominance. Everytime one of the big guys starts talking about selling linux desktops macroshaft justs cuts them a deal on their licenses and it goes away.
 
2007-03-26 09:30:44 PM
Meh I am going to take the wait and see attitude. I have played with Ubuntu and its not bad but since I do gaming as well that leaves me tied to my XP Pro box. I do not see Vista becoming a big hit especially with that licensing crap that MS plans on using. Either pay once and forget it or pay monthly but a LOT less. 5$ a month would be plenty for an OS. Especially since you are not having to upgrade servers and bandwidth like WOW and still make tons and I mean TONS of money.
 
2007-03-26 09:30:53 PM
I'd like to see if there was a spike in new PC sales right about the time Vista came out... of course I'm sure that was just people trying to get PCs before Vista was released, but were just a little too late (drat!).

I've said it before, I've tested Vista from the 1st Beta to RC2 to release, there's nothing frigging wrong with it if you're running it on very good hardware. Otherwise, yes, stick with XP. Or switch to Apple, or try Slackware, I don't give a shiat.

Personally I'm waiting a year or so, out of habit.
 
2007-03-26 09:32:28 PM
jcuffe
Do you think we'd have gotten anywhere in the game industry if every nintendo system was required to play SNES games?

Given the horrendous ton of shiat games post-SNES, one could argue that "we" haven't gotten much of anywhere anyways.

Technologically speaking, there's no reason why DX10 can't be made for WinXP. However, by making DX10 Vista-only and disabling OpenGL on Vista, you have a classic slimy Microsoft anti-competitive strategy. It's illegal as hell and they'll probably get away with it.
 
2007-03-26 09:34:48 PM
ChadManMN: Microsoft deserves credit for a lot of things, but backwards compatibility would be at the bottom of the list.

I don't really have that many issues with backwards compatibility. I can run Windows 3.1 and DOS games on XP, including PC games from 1981. Most of the games that have problems are newer ones and in many cases it's the developer's fault, not Microsoft's. I'm looking at you EA. As far as programs XP can run almost every PC program ever made. Windows 2000 can run console applications from OS/2 1.0 for pete's sake. Meanwhile try getting a game to work from one version of Linux to the next without having to recompile it or resolve dependencies. I think Microsoft has done all right as far as backwards compatibility is concerned, and at some point you just have to let some things go like the OS/2 subsystem being removed in XP. It isn't needed anymore, it's just legacy baggage.
 
2007-03-26 09:35:57 PM
Wow. Who cares?
 
2007-03-26 09:36:24 PM
We had a Microsoft consultant in last week that said sales were not good on vista.. WTF??!?!?! I think Microsoft is feeding a bunch of BS on this one..
 
2007-03-26 09:36:38 PM
www.ubuntu.com

w/
beryl-project.org

on both my compy and my lappy. Both do all the same stuff as Aero on 1/8th the memory...and they do it for free. That is all.
 
2007-03-26 09:36:43 PM
LavenderWolf: I haven't wanted anything new since windows 98. All I want out of new windows releases is better performance. This has never once been delivered.

So run 98 on a dual core and 1 gig of ram, you'll be fine.
 
2007-03-26 09:37:13 PM
MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Technologically speaking, there's no reason why DX10 can't be made for WinXP.

While I wouldn't put it past them, isn't it actually because of the new graphics foundation in Vista? Genuine question, I am not sure but I always thought that was the reason.
 
2007-03-26 09:37:14 PM
im_fallenangel

Looks like we may be made for each other.
 
2007-03-26 09:37:19 PM
Even though I won a copy of XP Professional 3 years ago
it's still sitting in the box.
I use WIN2k Pro on all my machines and I see no reason to
start using a piece of genuine bloatware.

/fark ballmer: He's a good a liar as the monkey currently occupying the White House
 
2007-03-26 09:37:47 PM
PMpapouse

It's exactly the same thing as the Playstation 3 is suffering from, an overall public opinion formed completely by the opinions of a few, without anyone actually thinking for themselves.

No, the Playstation 3 thing is because it has not titles to speak of and costs an arm and a leg for the privilege of having roughly the same experience AS EVERY OTHER GAME CONSOLE.

I do IT for a living. Think your little computer there is a big expensive power machine? I build servers that THE DISK ARRAYS cost $12k on. And the tapes to back them up cost more. My budget this year for data center improvements is around half a million dollars.

Yes, THAT kind of hardware.

So from the experience of a guy who has built machines with his bare hands since before you knew what the Internet was, VISTA IS CRAP.

And it is crap for the following reasons:
1) Memory Usage
2) Completely breaks games
3) Security STILL sucks
4) 6 different versions? You have to be shiatting me
5) You need a 5 at this point? How about anyone with half a brain and a 1/4 knowledge of computers would have stopped at 1). An operating system that eats RAM for breakfast will never enjoy high benchmark numbers. It has to spend most of it's life pushing mondane bits across the memory bus instead of doing useful things with them.

SQL Server has a 2GB memory recommentation
Exchange 2007 Server has a 2GB memory recommendation
A base install of Vista needs 2GB of memory? What is it doing? I have Servers with a fraction of that ram pushing GB of data
 
2007-03-26 09:37:57 PM
heypete
You can run on XP as a user and use the MMC to do admin stuff.

The command
runas /user: mmc will prompt you for admin's password and then pop open the MMC to do admin work on the system. To launch EXEs/MSIs you can do the same runas /user: file path also works. Or you can CTRL+Right click on a file and select runas from the menu that appears to work with it.

While not as nice as Macs way of doing business the runas command has let me do day to day operations as a user with no virus scan in memory and remain safe. I normally just have the scanner sweep my machine while I'm asleep since I'm paranoid.
 
2007-03-26 09:38:34 PM
I hated Vista when I installed it. It's a huge resource hog, but after running it for a few days, it does grow on you. Plus I have built in nix support, save me a lot of hassles. So I have to buy a gig of ram, what ever.. Of course work bought me Ultimate to test for all our desktops.. so I am not out anything yet on it.
 
2007-03-26 09:38:47 PM
MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I'm not an expert on the subject, so I'm not going to say you're wrong, but everything I've seen about the new way that all things graphical are handled in Vista points to complete backwards compatibility being a huge PITA. Also, wasn't DX10 made for use with Vista? Why waste time and money retrofitting a new technology for what is now an old product?

By the way, one could argue anything. That's not really the point.
 
2007-03-26 09:39:21 PM
WBlows: I use WIN2k Pro on all my machines and I see no reason to start using a piece of genuine bloatware.

What is bloated about XP compared to 2k? You can turn the Luny theme off, disable the themes service and others and by the time your done I've found it to be as lean running and more stable than 2000. Of course judging by your name I may have just been trolled.
 
2007-03-26 09:39:21 PM
Slight edit
runas /user:AdminAccountNameHere mmc will launc the MMC. I was retarded and made it so fark thought my admin name was a html tag. My bad.

Oh and MMC = Microsoft Management Console
 
2007-03-26 09:40:12 PM
Yeah, well.. a lot of people that are having problems with drivers and such shouldn't be using a computer anyways. I've had Vista installed since Oct. and it's fine. No problems. then again, I'm running XP, Vista, OS X, and Ubuntu. I guess I'm not qualified to make a comment.
 
2007-03-26 09:40:51 PM
"The Windows franchise is the centerpiece of Microsoft's business, because the company makes more than 75 cents in operating profit for every dollar of sales. The cash flow generated by Windows allows Microsoft to make investments in new businesses like digital music players and online services."

Yes, that's how they force their way into new markets with inferior products, sold at a loss; they can throw money at problems due to their near monopoly on OS's.
 
2007-03-26 09:41:48 PM
King Keepo

Uh, what, copy and paste? I just wrote that myself...

Maybe I just posted something similar somewhere else and it looked exactly the same.

By "laggy" I mean when you drag around a full window (rather than the old outline method), it doesn't move smoothly. Windows XP, on the other hand, never had a problem with that.
 
2007-03-26 09:43:37 PM
IBM has large systems that can easily run code written in the 1960's. At the same time, it can run the latest gcc compiler and any number of open source software, along with the latest J2EE apps. The same can be said about most Unix or Linux OS's, though the history would be shorter.

Heh. One day I checked a certain executable because I wanted to see if it had been stripped or not. I was expecting an ELF executable, but was shocked to discover that it was a farking PDP-11/70 executable.

It wasn't running directly on the hardware, though. It was being launched by what amounted to a PDP-11/70 emulator.
 
2007-03-26 09:44:07 PM
FeeltheIllinoise

its too bad XP isn't cheaper, I'd like to run boot camp on my mac so i can check out websites I build in windows easier.

Boot Camp? Amatuer. Run Parallels. Why dual boot when you can run both OS's side by side.

Then again I work for a non-profit with a site license for Windows/Office/etc. So I get to play with all this shiat legally for pennies.

/Oh we'll take the Per-Processor license for SQL server thank you
//In 64 bit
///And at Dell we are classified as Small Business so we are still ordering machines with XP Pro
////Largely because our ticketing software named "Vista" won't run under "Vista"
 
2007-03-26 09:44:33 PM

2007-03-26 09:37:19 PM WBlows

Even though I won a copy of XP Professional 3 years ago
it's still sitting in the box.
I use WIN2k Pro on all my machines and I see no reason to
start using a piece of genuine bloatware.

/fark ballmer: He's a good a liar as the monkey currently occupying the White House


I'm a certified MS critic, but I have never had many complaints about Win2k. As someone previous to you said, that OS was their pinnacle.

I would use Win2k on my current computer if I had a copy. Instead, I run Ubuntu because this is a 700mhz Athlon with 320mb RAM. Its snappy as hell, and solid as a rock, but I cant play .wmv files which is a hindrance.
 
2007-03-26 09:44:53 PM
Evil Twin Skippy: Wait, Vista is backwards compadible? With WHAT? Every game site not sucking Microso~1's dick has BIG WARNING on tech support sites that "our shiat don't farking work with Vista so stop axein!"

Can't speak for gaming really, I run WOW under vista without issue though. As far as normal apps, I actually haven't run into anything that doesn't run on vista. (I'm talking normal apps, not disk or os specific utilities, obviously current versions will need to be upgraded)...

I also certainly did NOT say that vista was 100% compatible, I said that people want it to be.

That said...

My statement still stands. Everyone complains that Vista does nothing new or not enough new yet want a new os that is 100% backwards compatible but want it slimmer than dos 3.1.

In any OS, weather apple, ibm, MS, etc... You can't have new, and backwards compatible and innovative. In order to be innovative you have to scrap the old and write from the ground up. This goes for everyone. As long as the end users want backwards compatibility, current os's will stagnate.
 
2007-03-26 09:45:27 PM
7of7: I never really cared about Microsoft either way but the fact that so many people are so intent on trying to destroy it by making shiat up makes me stabby. Sites like the Slashdot Veterans for Truth churn out day after day of complete bullshiat and idiots just eat it up. There are people in this very thread parroting the lies that have been thoroughly disproved. Sheeple make me a little sick.

Mod -1 troll.

Seriously I think I've said as much on Slashdot - something to the effect, "hey I'm not defending Microsoft because they're Microsoft, I'm arguing with you because you're full of shiat!" Bunch of RMS wannabes parroting "defectivebydesign" and "DRM" over and over again.
 
2007-03-26 09:45:33 PM
Evil Twin Skippy: I do IT for a living. Think your little computer there is a big expensive power machine? I build servers that THE DISK ARRAYS cost $12k on. And the tapes to back them up cost more. My budget this year for data center improvements is around half a million dollars.

Yes, THAT kind of hardware.


So, small penis?
 
2007-03-26 09:48:27 PM
jcuffe
but everything I've seen about the new way that all things graphical are handled in Vista points to complete backwards compatibility being a huge PITA.

As a consumer with a line of credit, my succinct response to things like that is always "Wow. Not my problem."

Linux and Mac do just fine with their superior eye candy and far less needy systems. Windows isn't getting my money until they can do finally do better than the mouthbreathers.

By the way, one could argue anything. That's not really the point.

True. And that's why I like these and political threads probably.
 
2007-03-26 09:49:28 PM
I use vista and I love it.

/Didn't pay for it though.
//Not sure if I would.
 
2007-03-26 09:50:20 PM
Stinky Pinky

Yeah, well.. a lot of people that are having problems with drivers and such shouldn't be using a computer anyways. I've had Vista installed since Oct. and it's fine. No problems. then again, I'm running XP, Vista, OS X, and Ubuntu. I guess I'm not qualified to make a comment.

I'm a network admin with 25 years experience with computers, 24 of them programming, and I've been a professional admin handing everyting from ISP interconnects to desktop support for 10 year running and I'm not qualified to make a comment.

And did I mention my first program was at age 8?

Despite having 4 computers on my desk:
1) A PPC rackmount running OSX Server
2) A Dell rackmount running 2003 Server
3) A Dell rackmount running Ubuntu and a $21k tape library
4) A MacBook running OS X, WindowsXP, and Ubuntu all at the same time through Parallels

NEWB. I'm a NEWB.
 
2007-03-26 09:52:04 PM
IBM has large systems that can easily run code written in the 1960's. At the same time, it can run the latest gcc compiler and any number of open source software, along with the latest J2EE apps. The same can be said about most Unix or Linux OS's, though the history would be shorter.

Code written in the 1960s said "do this and output a result." No big surprise machines today can still run it. However, code written last year for XP uses a horribly old API that simply isn't elegant enough to last as long as 1960s stuff did. It's the same for everything everywhere, or close enough. Things don't last as long as they used to because new things are more and more specialized. That's the price of progress.
 
2007-03-26 09:52:06 PM
When_Did_I_Eat_Corn

So, small penis?

By Finback Whale standards, I guess so.
 
2007-03-26 09:52:18 PM
Wow. They make $.75 on the dollar profit in the Windows unit.

Wow.
 
2007-03-26 09:54:03 PM
Evil Twin Skippy: I do IT for a living. Think your little computer there is a big expensive power machine? I build servers that THE DISK ARRAYS cost $12k on. And the tapes to back them up cost more. My budget this year for data center improvements is around half a million dollars.

Meh. Your machine probably plays FEAR for shiat.

So from the experience of a guy who has built machines with his bare hands since before you knew what the Internet was, VISTA IS CRAP.

Not really. It's quite a bit more bloaty than XP but honestly I was already running XP at 1 GB at home and 2 GB in the office (I use stuff that requires big nuts), and the memory usage in Vista hasn't been that much of a problem.
 
2007-03-26 09:54:36 PM
I'm running Vista Home Premium right now and I'm really getting a kick out of these replies!
 
2007-03-26 09:55:25 PM
Windows Vista is a sixty-four bit follow on to a thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit micro-processor written by a two bit company that couldn't stand one bit of competition.
 
2007-03-26 09:55:35 PM
Evil Twin.. I glad you caught that. I built my fist PC when I was 15. I'm 27 now (well, tomorrow) I love Vista. I love OS X, and Ubuntu. It's all about how much the user knows.
 
2007-03-26 09:57:45 PM
In any OS, weather apple, ibm, MS, etc... You can't have new, and backwards compatible and innovative. In order to be innovative you have to scrap the old and write from the ground up. This goes for everyone. As long as the end users want backwards compatibility, current os's will stagnate.

Though I feel it might be a bad decision on my part to argue with God--, I have to say that I totally disagree.

I have twenty years of experience on a multitude of platforms. I can tell you, for certain, that backwards compatibility is obtained by adding to, not taking from, the capabilities of the base system.

Microsoft has continually scrapped older interfaces because a) they were poorly designed to begin with, b) they didnt want to fix it or support it (or didnt know how), and c) they have the muscle to force the industry into submission.
 
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