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(CNN)   Are your kids in daycare? If yes, they are going to be losers, and you're a crappy parent   (cnn.health.printthis.clickability.com ) divider line 191
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16671 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2007 at 4:11 PM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-26 04:48:45 PM  
My nieces and nephews have been in all day professional daycares since they were babies. The oldest is 8 years old now. They're smart, articulate, outgoing kids. My 16 year old was never in daycare. He's also a smart, articulate, outgoing kid.

I had my reservations about daycare once upon a time but now I feel if you find a good one, you're going to be OK. I think it's more important how you parent and what you teach your kids when they're not in daycare. Do things with them and show them how important they are to you. They'll survive daycare just fine.
 
2007-03-26 04:48:55 PM  
Ric Romero reports: "There is no one right answer for raising kids and taking care of your family."
Film at 11
 
2007-03-26 04:49:05 PM  
IdBeCrazyIf: Joke is on them though. The sacrifices you make in your 20's means that when your 45, your kid will have been out of the house for awhile and you have the next 20 years of your life to do whatever the fark you want.

A 35 year old who starts having kids is looking at retirement by the time their little one graduates college.

suckas


or.....my daughter will have an exponentially stronger chance of going to a private school than I did because I am earning much more than I did in my 20's.

She knows her grandparents and even has met her great-grandmother; the argument of being this broken down senile wheelchair bound person by the time she graduates college does not hold water anymore.

When I was a kid it may have since the life expectancy was in the 70's for my grandparents, but I plan (God willing) to be both around and actively enjoying my daughter and my life long after she gets out of school.
 
2007-03-26 04:52:08 PM  
what ever happened to having the grandparents watch the kids? thats what my parents did with me, and i turned out alright... except i hate kids.

/get off my lawn
 
2007-03-26 04:52:16 PM  
BrotherTheodore

Pressure to look good to other women.

It is unfortunate, and I have noticed it, that a lot of women tend to be far harsher on other women for their life-choices then men are, especially when the life choices of other women differ from their own. And then you have gems like FarkingZionist who claim to speak for 99% of the rest of us. That's always cute.
 
2007-03-26 04:52:23 PM  
It's proven using daycare or being a stay at home mom is a non issue.

The real issue is having good AND affordable daycare available for those people who have to work like single parents.
 
2007-03-26 04:52:39 PM  
I bet the positive effect of a better school district is more pronounced that the negative of non-parent childcare. Thus reinforcing the idea that both parents working to afford a house in a better suburb is a better parenting decision.

I also agree that correlation is not causation.

Don't hate the yuppies. Many of us know exactly what is good for our kids and we do it.

/parenting is easier when you can afford to do it right.
//3 kids, two nannies (both college educated).
 
2007-03-26 04:53:51 PM  
uprislng: what ever happened to having the grandparents watch the kids?

my sister is lucky enough to have that, but mine are about 80 miles form us and my wife's are about 1,300 miles away
 
2007-03-26 04:55:49 PM  
SumoJeb: if you cant afford to stay at home with your kid, its time to sell your 4000 sq ft house and your 3 suv's.
/douchebag yuppies.



As an actual young urban professional (well... 36 isn't exactly young, I guess), I really got a kick out of your reply. Who can afford a "4000 sq ft" home in the city? And even if you could pay for 3 SUVs, where would you even park them?
 
2007-03-26 04:56:59 PM  
This thread is GWB without pics
work like single parents


oooh, do they work harder than dual parents?

gotta get my prejudices straight...
 
2007-03-26 05:01:09 PM  
I remember going to a few different day-cares as a kid. One of them was alright (although apparently there were too many kids there for one person to legally watch over, and when inspectors came by we had to hide in the basement and play Nintendo with no volume). One of them was awful. I don't think I ever told my parents how dreadful that place was.

However, I'm a reasonably well-adjusted human being now. Thankfully I had a brother near the same age who went to these places with me. If I were alone, I could have easily been much more negatively affected by the whole thing.

Funny side note: At the daycare center I actually enjoyed, there were Disney characters painted on the walls. The center got a letter from Disney demanding that the characters be removed because it was a violation of their property rights (big suprise). A few days later, some professional artists from Warner Brothers came by and painted WB cartoon characters over the Disney characters free of charge.

I've been a huge fan of WB cartoons ever since.
 
2007-03-26 05:02:52 PM  
My 4 year old son spent much of his first 3 years in a daycare. It was the one I went to, my mom's friend ran it and they HAD to have a lesson plan and set curriculum and it was a great experience for him. I was going to school full time and so was his dad. There was no one else in my family to watch him, everyone who was young enough was working and my 78 year old grandparents certainly shouldn't have had to watch him just for the sake of keeping him out of those "hell holes". I took the education I got and got a better paying job and now have the flexible hours to be able to be home with him M-F and he spends the weekends at home with daddy just having "guy time" while I work. But the funny thing I never expected? He LOVED going to "school", he wants to go back, and now I am looking for a half day program to take him to twice a week, so he can make real friends instead of making UP some!
 
2007-03-26 05:05:17 PM  
Mel636
Welp, if she doesn't sacrifice her career she's a selfish hateful greedy biatch who cares only about herself, and if she does sacrifice her career (and income and personal source of savings and retirement) and the marriage goes south a few years later she's a selfish hateful greedy farking biatch for getting any assets in the divorce.

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not too sure why women are still even having kids these days.


Preach on, brotha! What a breath of fresh air on Fark. Kinda turning me on.
 
2007-03-26 05:05:31 PM  
PeopleFirst

FTW!

Seriously. If you can't afford them, or if they're gonna cramp your career/lifestyle, don't have 'em. It's as simple as that.
 
2007-03-26 05:06:10 PM  
Once again the obvious tag is caught napping with it's feet up on the desk.
 
2007-03-26 05:07:32 PM  
We're lucky, I make enough for the wife to stay home with the kiddos. However, don't get all "why does she stay home?!" in my face. She stays home because she made less money. If she pulled in the bacon, I'd be the one at home.
 
2007-03-26 05:08:25 PM  
Too bad this isn't the 1950's anymore and a family can get by on one income. My wife and I both work full time to make a decent living and provide our kid with everything she needs (NOT wants). My wife would LOVE to stay home and take care of the kid, but that isn't realistic in this day and age. We have 2 student loans, rent, car payment, health care premiums, and a very meager amount going into a Roth IRA. We have our kid in a small, home-based day care 4 days a week and grandma gets one day a week. If we wanted to move into a small apartment and seriously reduce our standard-of-living, she may be able to be a stay-at-home mom.

We'd be crappy parents if we did that. Suck it CNN!

For the record:
- We rent our house, can't afford to buy just yet.
- We have 2 cars, a 2003 Toyota Matrix and a 1998 Mercury Mystique. 1 year left on the Matrix.
- We don't wear designer clothes.
- We buy our groceries at Aldi's.
- We RARELY go out to eat.
- My wife has a BA, I got a tech cert. (I make 2x what she does)
 
2007-03-26 05:08:42 PM  
It takes a village...
 
2007-03-26 05:09:15 PM  
FarkingZionist: 99% of women would like to say home and take care of babies.

What? From what reputable source does that figure come? Your ass doesn't count.
 
2007-03-26 05:09:21 PM  
LouDobbsAwaaaay: Funny side note: At the daycare center I actually enjoyed, there were Disney characters painted on the walls. The center got a letter from Disney demanding that the characters be removed because it was a violation of their property rights (big suprise). A few days later, some professional artists from Warner Brothers came by and painted WB cartoon characters over the Disney characters free of charge.

That sounds an awful lot like an entry in "12 Examples of the Dark Side of Disney" from the 1995 edition of The Book of Lists, which I just so happen to have here in my office.

It describes how Disney murals in three preschools in Hallandale, Florida, were ordered removed by Disney lawyers in 1989. In this version, it was Hanna Barbera that donated new murals (and threw a party for the kids).

So, be honest now: Did you misremember a real story (which is not entirely out of the question), or did you (and possibly also The Book of Lists) just pull a fnorgby?
 
2007-03-26 05:11:03 PM  
noYOUare: What? From what reputable source does that figure come? Your ass doesn't count.

How do you know how reputable his ass is?
 
2007-03-26 05:13:32 PM  
It's kinda funny all the bickering over whether women are equal enough to work or not. That kinda side-steps the issue of "why the hell should both parents HAVE to work to make ends meet?"

Are we Americans really that bad at budgeting? Or is it something greater than that?
 
2007-03-26 05:14:31 PM  
It's called par-en-ting. You're supposed to bond with the kid before you ship him/her off to school for 18 years followed by college followed by marriage followed by your death. Lazy, filthy breeders. I have to turn my chair *this* way now.
 
2007-03-26 05:15:51 PM  
I wonder if how you interact with your kids at home has anything to do with whether they will be losers or not?

Naaaa, let's go with whether or not they go to daycare, that way we will have someone else to blame.
 
2007-03-26 05:15:51 PM  
aureliawestlake: Maybe if we had a reasonable maternity/parental leave system in the United States (the only other nations without paid maternity leave are third world African nations), we wouldn't see so many kids being raised by poorly paid daycare workers. Maybe if caring for children was viewed as an important job worth paying for in order to protect our nation's future, daycare workers wouldn't be chronically underpaid and overworked.

Or maybe, just maybe, contraceptives being so widely available and all, parenting should be planned a bit more carefully so that the need for daycare is limited, and the means to pay for quality daycare are available from the parents themselves.
 
2007-03-26 05:22:35 PM  
people, who raised kids a few centuries ago? hell, even at the beginning of the 20th century? or if you live on a farm? relatives, generally the older members, who lived with you, or older siblings. kids roamed in gangs (not meant asa negative term, as gangs are nowadays, more as in groups), olders looking after youngers. of course, some of these gangs were gangs, and run by a mr fagin, esq.

childhood was a bit of a myth, and still is, in many parts of the world. lucky we recognise its imperative now, but we did swing the pendulum a bit far in angsting over it.

before anyone grumbles at me, i have worked part time, studied part time, worked full time, during raising of five kids. except the part time stuff was the first five years for each of them (last one is nearly 4, so in that zone again). no work at all under age of 3, maybe some light study after age 18mos.

when i have had no kids under 5, full time work. school based care until post work, or grandparents happy to spend time with their beloved grandkids for part time. im lucky, yes.

do i believe in piling guilt on parents? no. do i believe kids benefit from stay at homeparenting? thats a bit broad - i know many parents who would scr their offspring if forced to stay home, but are good parents BECAUSE they get adult work time. their kids get great quality care.

and there is lenty of examples of sahm and sahd who are terribly abusive, kids living in poverty etc, that suggests them working would improve thinks somewhat.
 
2007-03-26 05:23:52 PM  
Adman12
That sounds an awful lot like an entry in "12 Examples of the Dark Side of Disney" from the 1995 edition of The Book of Lists, which I just so happen to have here in my office.

It describes how Disney murals in three preschools in Hallandale, Florida, were ordered removed by Disney lawyers in 1989. In this version, it was Hanna Barbera that donated new murals (and threw a party for the kids).


That does sound an awful lot like what happened to my daycare center. Except we didn't get a party.

Adman12
So, be honest now: Did you misremember a real story (which is not entirely out of the question), or did you (and possibly also The Book of Lists) just pull a fnorgby?

Since I've never read "12 Examples of the Dark Side of Disney", I don't see how it could have been beamed into my brain and scramble the events I witnessed. And I don't know what "pulling a fnorgby" is. But I DO remember watching the painters arrive and working on the wall paintings, and it wasn't until years later that I found out what the story was behind it from my mother.

If you want to accuse me of lying, I guess you can go right ahead, since I don't have any proof. But in retrospect, it does sound like Disney's M.O. to enforce this kind of thing, so I don't understand how it can be so impossible to imagine that it happened to someone on FARK. It's like someone on FARK being sued by the RIAA for downloading music.
 
2007-03-26 05:25:51 PM  
Fun_Size

No, I could never afford to have kids and give them the proper attention (at least one parent at home during the first four years) so I chose not to have any.

I'm sure the world's a better place for it.

The vast majority of young parents I talk to who warehouse their kids have all the trappings and trimmings of upper middle-class lifestyles...and their kids are in a franchise all day getting who knows what from who knows who.

Keep making excuses for not even being a bad parent - just not being a parent at all. Just because you can reproduce doesn't make you anything but an animal, and warehousing your kid(s) makes you lower than most of them.
 
2007-03-26 05:26:43 PM  
Oh...one more thing.

In a few years you'll have them on Ritalin because it "helps them focus."

All the best parents do that, haven't you heard?
 
2007-03-26 05:27:51 PM  
After the best 15-months of my life (the time when my son has been around) I've come to my own conclusions about this whole child-rearing thingy.

1) I am not, nor will I ever be, a fully capable parent.
2) Daycare is not, nor will ever be, a great replacement for a parent at home.
3) That said, the 40 hours he gets in daycare, helps him to relate to and interact with people who look different than him, talk different than him, and who probably don't have it as good as he has it. Skills he wouldn't get staying with me or my wife all day.
4) Daycare is expensive, but if you find a good one, they are worth every penny.
 
2007-03-26 05:29:55 PM  
donwregefark
In a few years you'll have them on Ritalin because it "helps them focus."


i9.tinypic.com

RAAAH!
 
2007-03-26 05:29:56 PM  
I would rather spend time with my kids than have a fancy car and a big house.

When you get older you realize what's important in life.
 
2007-03-26 05:30:23 PM  
Rich people & unbechilded people:
"Nyaah nyaah nyaah, you should have planned better."

People with kids:
"We do what we think is in the best interest of our children. Other than that, we are splintered into tiny factions who agree on nothing else."

Note that everyone defending daycare mentions structure, like there's anything great about raising lil' stormtroopers.

Teach your kids discipline & they'll grow up to like being spanked.

Teach your kids SELF-discipline and they'll grow up to be unstoppable.

/not a big fan of meaningless structure
//check out some George Carlin for why
 
2007-03-26 05:31:46 PM  
i just read the actual article from this month's Child Development. "Children with more experience in CENTER settings continued to manifest somewhat more problem behaviors through sixth grade."

From the methods section, child care types were classified as follows:
A) center
B) chid-care home (any home-based care outside the child's own home but not the grandparent's home)
C) in-home care (any caregiver in the child's home except dad or grandparents)
D) grandparent care
E) father care.
 
2007-03-26 05:32:51 PM  
FarkingZionist: 99% of women would like to stay home and take care of babies.

Speak for yourself, June Cleaver. I have not heard one woman in my company say that she wants to "stay home and take care of babies."

/85% of my company's workforce are women
//About 80% of that 85% are mothers

 
2007-03-26 05:34:07 PM  
Svengali4Life: I would rather spend time with my kids than have a fancy car and a big house.

So would I. But since neither of those is possible, I'll settle for making sure there's food on the table and a good preschool for her to attend. I make the most of the time I spend with her and make sure her school does, too. And I sleep just fine.
 
2007-03-26 05:37:09 PM  
I heard that children that go to day care are more outgoing and do better in social situations ( including jobs that require "people persons" )
 
2007-03-26 05:37:23 PM  
Mrs. Hog started staying home about 2 month ago and it is so worth it. No more both getting home at 6 PM, trying to make dinner, say hi to each other, talk to the kids (who are now acting out because they haven't seen us all day and they are looking for attention), give baths, clean the kitchen, only to finally be done around 8-8:30, which is then bed time. We finally decided, paying someone to raise our kids wasn't worth it.

Now, dinner is ready or almost ready when I get home, the kids are happier, the stress level in the house has gone way down. Best of all, Mrs. Hog is not the tired swine she use to be at nights, and now I get to show her my bacon much more.

Did we have to give up on a few perks, sure. Was it worth it, yup.
 
2007-03-26 05:38:05 PM  
My kids aren't in daycare, but my girlfriend is.

/can I have the low sodium meal please?
 
2007-03-26 05:38:39 PM  
Dr._Love: Note that everyone defending daycare mentions structure, like there's anything great about raising lil' stormtroopers.

Erm, I think we are referring to teaching, learning etc and not just drop off the kids for a free for all. I didn't know Hitler Youth was still alive and well in our daycares.
 
2007-03-26 05:41:25 PM  
For those 2 parent households, all I'm saying is. As nice as that paycheck maybe or having that extra vacation money in the bank.

Can you really put a price in missing, watching your babies grow up? Is the money worth not seeing your babies grow up?
That's all I'm saying.

noYOUare [TotalFark]



"Are you basing that on what you think day care costs or what kind of salary you think people make?

better with 2 working parents but is your family or kids in a better position in relation to you, the parents?"


I'm not basing it on money per se, just the time lost and the moments which the parents and children can never really regain.


"My ex-husband is a professional student, which is one of the reasons I left him. I guarantee you my daughter's better off with me working full-time and putting food on the table than if we stayed home in our cardboard box out in the alley. I understand that anectodal evidence doesn't conclusively undermine the article's point, but there are holes in all of these arguments."

Being a professional student myself and having a very long term gf who's also a professional student, I kind of take offense to that. Then again I don't see the direct logic in comparing your educated ex-hubby's desire for education, to living in a cardboard box. If you look at education as an expense and a waste of time, rather than an investment, well I really don't know what to say to that.

As my father once said, they can take away your money, clothes, home, freedom, and even your country, but they can't take away your education.

//Both gf and I are working on post grad degree.
//Won't see or join the real workforce until our early thirties.
 
2007-03-26 05:41:26 PM  
I think all this discussion shows just exactly what the problems might be. First of all, yes, it would be best if parents were able to stay home and raise their children without the need for daycare. BUT, not all parents are capable of raising children, let alone pets or small animals... I've seen SOOOO many bad parents just wandering around the grocery store that it's sad. So we can't just say that daycare is the only reason for behavioral problems at older ages.

It's all about environment. If children are put in an environment that helps them learn and grow, that's great! If the daycare that parents choose happens to be a "just drop your kid off here for 12 hours to play all day!" type that doesn't really do much to stimulate their minds, they have nothing better to do than to entertain themselves, which sometimes leads to "behavioral problems" with other children because they're not busy learning, like they should be. Give them projects, crafts, art, painting, etc. Encourage them to challenge themselves, to build things, and work together. It's amazing how a kid with these "problems" becomes an angel when you give them the attention and stimulation they're looking for and craving.

Of course, having the proper environment means having that good stimulation all, or at least most, of the time. You can't give them a good environment at home and then send them to a daycare that sucks. Likewise, you can't send them to a good daycare and then treat them like crap at home. They're always learning. Make sure you spend time with your kids and keep them learning and stimulated. Be PICKY about where you send them to daycare or school, even if it means driving a ways to get there. It does matter! If some parents used their brain more, cared more, put forth more effort for their child's welfare, maybe the next generations of kids wouldn't have so many "behavioral problems." Raising a kid isn't like raising a hamster. They need more than food, water, and a wheel to run in.

I know not everyone has money to send kids to private schools, stay at home instead of daycare, etc. But you do what you can. There are an awful lot of selfish parents nowadays. Parents need to care more about their kids than themselves (Like Your Company's Computer Guy, for example. Way to do your best to be a good parent!!! Keep it up!). To some crazy parents complaining of being broke: Stop buying designer clothes for your infant!!! WTF!?!?!?! And learn to live within your means. If you can't afford to give your kids a proper environment to grow up because YOU want stuff that costs more, think a bit more before having kids. And some parents who buy expensive stuff wonder why they need food stamps... Having kids isn't just about what YOU want. It almost always means making major sacrifices to provide for them.

Some people just piss me off... and crappy parents, or parents who just don't think things through are just some of those people. In most cases, I blame these "behavioral problems" on poor parenting. Maybe it wasn't intentionally bad parenting. But some parents just don't know how to be GOOD parents.

/There! I said it!!
//My rant is done now.
///maybe...
 
2007-03-26 05:41:45 PM  
Why the hell have a kid if you're just going to toss it in daycare?

You are a crappy parent
 
2007-03-26 05:47:17 PM  
I didn't go to daycare, my parents were excellent, and yet I'm a loser.

I feel disenfranchised somehow.
 
2007-03-26 05:50:18 PM  
What if I put my dog in doggie-daycare? Am I a bad owner???

/can't afford it, but considering getting in on the PAID side of that equation instead of the PAYING side
//maybe we'll open one that lets you drop off the kid AND the dog...
///your dog is welcome in my house at any time
 
2007-03-26 05:53:51 PM  
NCg8r,
That's not a bad idea.
/serious
 
2007-03-26 05:57:43 PM  
School is a daycare center.
 
2007-03-26 05:58:40 PM  

That's not a bad idea.


Allowing the dogs inside and making the kids stand out on the yard??? If I catch Timmy eating turds again, I'm going to turn the hose on him.

/seriously, how hard would it be to buy 10 Futons, 10 webcams and charge rich people hundreds of dollars for the ability to spy on Precious while she gnaws on her butt-hole during their vacation in Aspen?
 
2007-03-26 06:01:15 PM  
Gurlugon, I was about to say something about all the winners here taunting their best. at least you are not alone... it turns out losers just don't voice their opinions as much as those supposed winners do.
 
2007-03-26 06:03:44 PM  
Are we talkin' white kids or black kids?
 
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