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(Telegraph)   When torturing, stabbing, beating and drowning a man, make sure he's actually a pedophile and not some learning disabled guy   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 210
    More: Asinine  
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13784 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2007 at 6:13 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-25 07:41:12 PM  
duskglow2000

Then if they're going to commit again... lobby for the laws to be changed to give them the death penalty immediately upon conviction.

That's why I voted for Dewhurst (Tx Lt. Gov), he's advocating Jessica's Law.
 
2007-03-25 07:42:17 PM  
But did they see his farking baseball or not?
 
2007-03-25 07:43:23 PM  
Guess_Who:

That's a step in the right direction, then.

Me, any law actually named after a child makes me very suspicious, because I consider it to usually be a knee-jerk, poorly thought out, reactionary law.

But I don't know anything about Jessica's law, so I'll hold out on a final opinion until I know.

/won't someone pleeeeease think of the chiillllldren
 
2007-03-25 07:43:48 PM  
This is sick. Inhuman. Alien.

Physically nauseating. Nothing I've read or seen on fark.com or on the news,
not iraqi torture, cluster bombs, not jeffrey dahmer, not those parents
overdosing their daughter on add pills, nothing in recent memory has made
me want to throw up like this.

I don't understand how this could happen in England. I could maybe believe
some swamp in the deep south, rednecks involved. But elsewhere ? I mean
this is just insane.

I'm just trying to picture this guy, dumb enuff to trust everyone, dumb enuff to need someone, broken, gasping, suffocating on water...
 
2007-03-25 07:44:22 PM  
You know i have read a lot of sick stuff on here. Up to and including parents spraying substances into babies faces and killing them. This is the first story that has bothered me.
 
2007-03-25 07:45:58 PM  
"There's no justice like mob justice."


/Ethel Merman
//attributed
 
2007-03-25 07:46:08 PM  
pstudent12:

Oh come on.

I know what you're saying, but you must be naive to think this couldn't happen anywhere in the world. The English aren't any different than we are, and they'll do things just as stupid if given half a chance.

And it's insane no matter where you are.
 
2007-03-25 07:47:37 PM  
Hah. "Leanring Disabled." Is that the new politically correct term?
 
2007-03-25 07:48:38 PM  
Disfaze:

I seriously don't understand that, because I see trailers for movies all the time that frankly deal with much more blood and gore than this story, and people think that's entertainment. What's the difference between this and that, other than that this really happened?
 
2007-03-25 07:50:22 PM  
BarryJV
Bullshiat. If you didn't feel rage at a person who hurt your child you're not only not a man, you're not human.

Justice must be dispassionate, individuals are not.


The difference between FEELING and ACTING is what makes us human. One can be full of rage and yet not surrender to that rage.
 
2007-03-25 07:51:55 PM  
ChairmanKaga
You win at the internet. I wish I could invoke that much indignation.
 
2007-03-25 07:53:11 PM  
headline made me laugh
 
2007-03-25 07:54:49 PM  
Praetorius:Hah. "Leanring Disabled." Is that the new politically correct term?

Personally, I always thought "retarded" was overly-kind. It means: "Occurring or developing later than desired or expected; delayed". "Learning disabled" is closer to the truth -- they will never be at the level of a normal person do to abnormal brain development. "Retarded" implies that they'll reach the same development eventually -- it just may take longer -- but that's not the case.


/also, the article got it right. It's "pederasty" that's bad (sex with kids) -- "pedophilia" literally means "liking kids". I never understood why people don't use the more appropriate term.
 
2007-03-25 07:56:53 PM  
LordPistachio
Of course, if he was a pedophile all that stuff would be perfectly OK. Sickening.

Yes, yes it would.
 
2007-03-25 07:59:22 PM  
Scythed

After reading the article, I'm guessing at least one of the vigilantes knew the man was severely mentally handicapped.

FTA..."The court heard that Mr Miles had allegedly been bullied by Doyle in the past."

I'm going out on a limb here & putting forth that Edward Doyle was likely bullying Mr Miles because of his mental handicap.
 
2007-03-25 08:01:00 PM  
Praetorius: "Leanring Disabled." Is that the new politically correct term?

No, I think you can still call them child molesters.
 
2007-03-25 08:02:00 PM  
jshine:

because people are stupid.

/I'm people too, but I claim right of speaker. :-)
 
2007-03-25 08:02:48 PM  
duskglow2000

But I'd channel that anger productively. Not in some childish search for vengeance that will really have no positive effect and will eventually destroy me.

People have different ways of coping with tradegies. You feel that your way is best, as do I.
 
2007-03-25 08:04:51 PM  
Whatever, and a Pediaphile is someone who likes to have sex with feet.

Everyone knows what we are talking about, damn... You'd guys would debate the meaning of fire before leaving a burning buildling.
 
2007-03-25 08:06:16 PM  
Guess_Who
Are you kidding me they are the ones who are most likely to committ again. Many doctors have testified that their urges never go away. They may be able to contain them for periods of time but most eventually give into them.

Actually, statistically speaking, pedophiles have the lowest rate of recidivism of any crime except murder. How you define "recidivism" is variable, but if we're talking about using "child sex offender reconvicted of another child sex crime", then there's somewhere around 15-20% lifetime recidivism, with an additional 20% chance to be convicted of a violent, non-sexual crime and yet another 20% chance to be convicted of a nonviolent crime such as shoplifting.

That's why I voted for Dewhurst (Tx Lt. Gov), he's advocating Jessica's Law.

The problems with strict laws such as this:
1. The child is the only witness to the crime. If molesting can give the death penalty, there's a strong motive for the molester to kill the victim if the victim threatens to talk. Right now that is discouraged by the fact that killing the victim increases the penalty to death.

2. Most molestation happens within a family, and as such, a very large number of victims love the molesters. I knew a girl who was molested by her uncle, she never spoke of it to anyone until the uncle died, because of things like mandatory minimum sentencing; she felt the punishment was far worse than the crime. Whenever dealing with crimes between family members, the punishment can hurt the victim as well as the criminal. Mandatory minimum sentencing laws, as well as death penalty options, make many victims less likely to come forward.
 
2007-03-25 08:07:04 PM  
Guess_Who:

And that's why we have law, so people like you can't harm people just on the suspicion they did something.

I just lost all respect for you, your attitude is extremely selfish.
 
2007-03-25 08:09:20 PM  
2007-03-25 08:02:48 PM Guess_Who

duskglow2000

But I'd channel that anger productively. Not in some childish search for vengeance that will really have no positive effect and will eventually destroy me.

People have different ways of coping with tradegies. You feel that your way is best, as do I.


Somebody post a picture of Picard channeling the captain from Moby Dick. I can't seem to find one.
 
2007-03-25 08:12:01 PM  
ChairmanKaga:Everyone knows what we are talking about, damn... You'd guys would debate the meaning of fire before leaving a burning buildling.

I was simply observing that it's strange to use a slightly incorrect term when a perfectly correct one exists.
 
2007-03-25 08:13:32 PM  
Sum Dum Gai

1. The child is the only witness to the crime. If molesting can give the death penalty, there's a strong motive for the molester to kill the victim if the victim threatens to talk. Right now that is discouraged by the fact that killing the victim increases the penalty to death.

I'm not saying that we will eradicate it. That will never happen after all we are human. I'm simply saying that it would deter some who thought about it. They would know full will that if they committed the crime and were caught that they would receive death. Although it would make them more likely to kill their victims it hasn't stopped them in the past. Even without fear of the death penalty kids are still being raped and murdered. We can only hope to contain the problem.
 
2007-03-25 08:13:57 PM  
duskglow2000: I'd be angry too.

But I'd channel that anger productively.


Yeah, good luck with that. And good luck dealing with the consequences of that repressed rage as it eats you up from the inside for years afterwards, every time you see your child flinch from a stranger or wake in the middle of the night crying.

I hope I'd have the self-control to turn the bastard over to the police, but I wouldn't expect to, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who, if they caught a paedophile with their child, killed them where they stood.
 
2007-03-25 08:17:43 PM  
2007-03-25 08:09:20 PM Damnhippyfreak

2007-03-25 08:02:48 PM Guess_Who


duskglow2000

But I'd channel that anger productively. Not in some childish search for vengeance that will really have no positive effect and will eventually destroy me.

People have different ways of coping with tradegies. You feel that your way is best, as do I.



Christ. We are trapped in a cliche huh. I just had a discussion yesterday about the mindset of people who blow themselves up.

I mean if you had lost enough, if you were feeling so powerless, and wanting so desperately to strike back, at something, anything. Even if it destroyed you in the process. Scary shiat.

/no real relevance to this discussion
/end threadjack
 
2007-03-25 08:18:04 PM  
jshine

A pederast is a man who has sex with a boy. A pedophile is an adult who has sexual desire for children or has had sex with a child.

How perfect is that for you?
 
2007-03-25 08:18:21 PM  
Happened a couple of years back to a guy in our old town. The girl made up a story because he wouldn't buy her some beer from the off license and ended up having his house firebombed and he burnt to death before she admitted she lied about it. Vigilante justice is no justice at all.
 
2007-03-25 08:19:14 PM  
BarryJV:

If you actually *catch* them with your child, then all bets are off. But that's NOT WHAT ANYONE IS TALKING ABOUT. I've even said that you'll probably get off if you do something to someone who is actively harming your child.

What pretty much everyone here but you is talking about is finding out something happened after the fact, and going after them.

But, anything to lend your argument some credence, eh?

Oh, and besides, I'm mature enough to let go of most rage. If you know my story, you'd know why I am qualified to make that statement, and why it wouldn't eat me up from the inside. Because if it did, it already would have.
 
2007-03-25 08:21:00 PM  
limeyfellow:

But someone got to release their rage, so it's all worth it!

Little manipulative biatch, btw...
 
2007-03-25 08:22:37 PM  
2007-03-25 08:13:57 PM BarryJV

duskglow2000: I'd be angry too.

But I'd channel that anger productively.

Yeah, good luck with that. And good luck dealing with the consequences of that repressed rage as it eats you up from the inside for years afterwards, every time you see your child flinch from a stranger or wake in the middle of the night crying.

I hope I'd have the self-control to turn the bastard over to the police, but I wouldn't expect to, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who, if they caught a paedophile with their child, killed them where they stood.


I'm not sure man. Channel productively doesn't seem to be the same as bottling it up. There are ways of dealing with rage other than going out and punching something. But then again, we're guys. If we can't blow it up or kill it, what else can we do?
 
2007-03-25 08:24:25 PM  
Damnhippyfreak

I mean if you had lost enough, if you were feeling so powerless, and wanting so desperately to strike back, at something, anything. Even if it destroyed you in the process. Scary shiat.

I could never feel the way you do. If you knew someone had brutally raped your young child and you channel your pain in a "productive" manner only to see the person get out of jail before your child graduated HS and all you can say to yourself is oh well he paid his debt to society and justice ran it's course then you are something else.
 
2007-03-25 08:24:43 PM  
Damnhippyfreak:

"I'm not sure man. Channel productively doesn't seem to be the same as bottling it up. There are ways of dealing with rage other than going out and punching something. But then again, we're guys. If we can't blow it up or kill it, what else can we do?"

Ron Goldman.

He didn't get any justice out of the criminal justice system, but instead, he just figured out how to ruin OJs life, and he did it completely legally.
 
2007-03-25 08:26:49 PM  
Guess_Who
I'm not saying that we will eradicate it. That will never happen after all we are human. I'm simply saying that it would deter some who thought about it. They would know full will that if they committed the crime and were caught that they would receive death. Although it would make them more likely to kill their victims it hasn't stopped them in the past. Even without fear of the death penalty kids are still being raped and murdered.

Actually, very few are murdered, only a very small percentage of all molestation victims are killed. Sure, the ones who make the news, but they make the news because the story is so sensational. Some groups claim that there are about 300,000 children molested in any given year. By contrast, about 1700 children are murdered every year, and of course that includes many/most who are not murdered by child molesters. So currently the odds of a child molester murdering their victims is less than 1 in 200, probably closer to 1 in 400 or 1 in 500.
 
2007-03-25 08:30:30 PM  
2007-03-25 08:24:25 PM Guess_Who

Damnhippyfreak

I mean if you had lost enough, if you were feeling so powerless, and wanting so desperately to strike back, at something, anything. Even if it destroyed you in the process. Scary shiat.

I could never feel the way you do. If you knew someone had brutally raped your young child and you channel your pain in a "productive" manner only to see the person get out of jail before your child graduated HS and all you can say to yourself is oh well he paid his debt to society and justice ran it's course then you are something else.


That's just the point now is it? I'm not sure the only release you can find for the complex emotions and pain one would feel in that kind of situation is violence. Of course one would feel like shiat during and afterwards. But I do think it's a mistake to think that going out and beating on the guy is the one and only way to feel better. I wish I knew more about this kind of thing. I think Herman Melville and any number of people who have written about the double-sided nature of revenge know something though.
 
2007-03-25 08:32:13 PM  
Damnhippyfreak:

"That's just the point now is it? I'm not sure the only release you can find for the complex emotions and pain one would feel in that kind of situation is violence."

That's really the difference between the mature and immature, isn't it?
 
2007-03-25 08:32:17 PM  
duskglow2000

If you actually *catch* them with your child, then all bets are off. But that's NOT WHAT ANYONE IS TALKING ABOUT. I've even said that you'll probably get off if you do something to someone who is actively harming your child.

To be fair I am talking about people who ARE guilty such as John Couey who is pictured above wearing that nice suit and shaven. I'm not talking about going on a witch hunt and accusing anyone. I'm talking about people like Couey.
 
2007-03-25 08:34:46 PM  
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often considering all the pervos who are let off with a slap on the wrist.
 
2007-03-25 08:37:41 PM  
I believe in being vigilant.
If it turns out that these people tormented, injured, and murdered an innocent retarded person...well then I'm in for some burning.
 
2007-03-25 08:41:59 PM  
images.thesun.co.uk

Sean Miles, the guy who was murdered.

'They allegedly stripped him, slashed him and battered him so badly with a golf club that the head bent. The gang, from the Littlemoor area of Oxford, thought "shy" Miles was abusing a boy of four.'
 
2007-03-25 08:45:18 PM  
Hey. All you guys on the pedo angle - was he, wasn't he, what if and all that crap.....

You ever think for a second that the 4 farking assholes only mentioned that they thought he was a pedo as a form of defence in court?
 
2007-03-25 08:49:20 PM  
www.stealthputter.com

Oh bloody 'ell



/so that's why there's Due Process
 
2007-03-25 08:49:35 PM  
Wow. Just...wow.

This is one of those cases where I could see the "eye for an eye" argument making a very strong case.

But seeing as how a 37-year-old man with an I.Q. of 50 would most likely make no worthwhile contribution to society, it could also be argued that they did him (and the world) a favour.

But still, was all that REALLY necessary?

I demand mugshots!
 
2007-03-25 09:00:47 PM  
On a last note, anyone who's wondering about the problems with vigilante justice of this kind should look at the article 3 up from this one.
 
2007-03-25 09:02:10 PM  
lol
 
2007-03-25 09:13:54 PM  
One irony is that The Telegraph (owned by a pornographer) is one of those particularly nasty British tabloids that tries to whip readers into a lynch mob frenzy about pedos (when it's not ranting against immigrants etc). Britain's media in general has done a fine job of turning life in the UK into an endless parade of manufactured panics and paranoia. I bet this rag doesn't give a rat's arse if the occasional innocent mong gets done to death as a result.
 
2007-03-25 09:41:45 PM  
Mr Gronk - that's the Express. Telegraph was owned by Hollinger last time I looked.

Angry mob you say?

news.bbc.co.uk
"We're from the internet. GET HIM!"
 
2007-03-25 09:55:40 PM  
trainonthebrain - I stand corrected. Still a shiat paper though.

/ worked for The Scotsman once
// now that was shiat
 
2007-03-25 11:00:56 PM  
EMPulse_of_KC:
But seeing as how a 37-year-old man with an I.Q. of 50 would most likely make no worthwhile contribution to society, it could also be argued that they did him (and the world) a favour.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
 
2007-03-25 11:01:30 PM  
If I knew what award to give ChairmanKaga: I'd give it to him. He owns this thread completely and thoroughly.
 
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