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(Reuters)   16th century maritime map proves that Portugese discovered Australia, but having enough space to keep their prisoners at home, abandoned it as useless   (uk.reuters.com) divider line 77
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7105 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2007 at 11:45 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



77 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2007-03-21 08:40:50 AM  
We need more debtors prisons instead of letting them just walk among us.
 
2007-03-21 08:47:03 AM  
I love Portugese chicken
 
2007-03-21 08:53:40 AM  
They'll be dancing in the streets of Fall River today...showering the masses with Chourico!!!
 
2007-03-21 10:00:58 AM  
The Dutch got there before the English, too. Unfortunately they ended up killing each other
 
2007-03-21 11:48:07 AM  
img107.imageshack.us

We already run the misfits outta our country. We sent 'em back to Portugal.
 
2007-03-21 11:48:31 AM  
Actually the abos discovered it first.
 
2007-03-21 11:50:32 AM  
dhudd: Actually the abos discovered it first.

Don't be silly. The human race and time both began in western Europe. Everybody knows this!
 
2007-03-21 11:52:21 AM  
From FTA:
proves that Portuguese seafarer Christopher de Mendonca lead a fleet of four ships into Botany Bay in 1522 -- almost 250 years before Captain James Cook.

Proving, once again, that Portugal always beats England.

Suck it, limeytards.
 
2007-03-21 11:52:32 AM  
People actually still debate crap like this? The Aborigines were there first - get over it!
 
2007-03-21 11:53:13 AM  
Yes, but the abos didn't have a flag.
"No flag, no country! Those are the rules."
 
2007-03-21 11:53:46 AM  
Wait...Portugal still exists?
 
2007-03-21 11:54:48 AM  
Native Americans discovered America...or wait, was that the Indians?

Where the hell did they all go, anyway?
 
2007-03-21 11:57:32 AM  
Didn't the Aborigines find it 45,000 years earlier?
 
EJ
2007-03-21 11:59:05 AM  
What the fark is a Portugal?
 
2007-03-21 11:59:39 AM  
StoneyBologna

Native Americans discovered America...or wait, was that the Indians?

Where the hell did they all go, anyway?


That reminds me of my favorite Churchill quote.

"Before we proceed further let us get one thing clear. Are we talking about the brown Indians in India, who have multiplied alarmingly under the benevolent British rule? Or are we speaking of the red Indians in America who, I understand, are almost extinct?"

Helen Ogden Mills Reid, sister of the anti-British owner of the Chicago Tribune, encountered Churchill at a White House lunch in 1943 and immediately attacked him on the grounds of Britains's treatment of India.
 
2007-03-21 11:59:59 AM  
SharkUW, trippdogg, & nobozo

Yeah but they didn't use big fancy boats... they just walked there. I could've discovered Australia if I could walk there.

/ I'm off to re-discover my washroom
 
2007-03-21 12:00:14 PM  
SharkUW - my bad. This very morning I was on the eliptical and I asked the guy next to me (who up to that moment had seem intelligent) if he was a fundamentalist (his brother, also goes to the gym, is a minister). He said "I don't know". I asked him how old the Earth is, and he said "oh, about 6,000 years or so." I quitely said "Oh", and that ended not only that discussion, but any future discussions that involve anything except football. I'll talk football with a fundie, but not much else.

When I was in college my geology professor, who was a world-recognized expert in sedimentation and a Bishop in the Church of Latter Day Saiants (Mormans), told us, when asked how he could believe the world was only 6,000 years old responded "Because God likes to test our faith by playing tricks on us."
 
2007-03-21 12:01:10 PM  
"Unlike the end of a stingray, this debate is pointless."

newsimg.bbc.co.uk
 
2007-03-21 12:01:29 PM  
i56.photobucket.com



unavailable for comment
/Abel Tasman
//kinda looks Portuguese, don't he?
 
2007-03-21 12:01:43 PM  
A dingo stole moy Portuguese boybee!
 
2007-03-21 12:01:46 PM  
FTA: "It was even so accurate that I found I could draw in the modern airport runways, to scale in the right place, without any problem at all,"

Boy, they're gonna be pissed when they find out you drew on their map, dude..
 
2007-03-21 12:02:48 PM  
StoneyBologna: Where the hell did they all go, anyway?

Bugs Bunny killed the last one.

www.spaldingsoft.com
 
2007-03-21 12:03:15 PM  
EJ: What the fark is a Portugal?

It's to the left of the Spantards.
 
2007-03-21 12:03:16 PM  
2007-03-21 11:52:21 AMFlashman73


From FTA:
proves that Portuguese seafarer Christopher de Mendonca lead a fleet of four ships into Botany Bay in 1522 -- almost 250 years before Captain James Cook.

Proving, once again, that Portugal always beats England.

Suck it, limeytards.


Portugal and England have the longest military alliance that is still in force. It's been there since 1386. So technically when Portugal wins, England wins.

\Suck it Canaditards.
 
2007-03-21 12:03:34 PM  
jingks: Yeah but they didn't use big fancy boats... they just walked there.

No. You could walk to New Guinea, but not Australia.
 
2007-03-21 12:03:38 PM  
"16th century maritime map proves that Portugese discovered Australia, but having enough space to keep their prisoners at home, abandoned it as useless"

Ha-Ha. Australia is considered useless.

/ drtfa
 
2007-03-21 12:04:49 PM  
dhudd: I'll talk football with a fundie, but not much else.

QFT.
 
2007-03-21 12:06:21 PM  
nobozo - Didn't the Aborigines find it 45,000 years earlier?

How can aboriginal people discover their homeland? Perhaps you mean, ancient people settled in Australia long before anyone even knew it was a distinct continent.

/I know what you meant.
//Can there be just one slash?
 
2007-03-21 12:06:58 PM  
0Icky0 You could walk to New Guinea, but not Australia.

Bah, I had a feeling it wasn't a complete land bridge. Stupid half-assed ice age. What's the running theory? canoes?
 
2007-03-21 12:08:43 PM  
2007-03-21 08:47:03 AM Bob Down


I love Portugese chicken


Nando's is South African though.
 
2007-03-21 12:09:11 PM  
Well yeah, but just because abos were there first doesn't mean that Australia WASN't discovered by other people. Did Mendonca know it was there? No. Did he find it? Yes. He discovered it. Plese quit playing word games for the sake of riding down Western European achievement, huh?
 
2007-03-21 12:10:11 PM  
jingks: What's the running theory? canoes?

No idea, but windsurfboards would be teh coolest!
 
2007-03-21 12:10:55 PM  
Flashman73:

From FTA:
proves that Portuguese seafarer Christopher de Mendonca lead a fleet of four ships into Botany Bay in 1522 -- almost 250 years before Captain James Cook.

Proving, once again, that Portugal always beats England.

Suck it, limeytards.


Botany Bay? Botany Bay...oh, no!
memory-alpha.org
 
2007-03-21 12:11:11 PM  
jingks Stupid half-assed ice age continental shelf

FTFM
 
2007-03-21 12:11:46 PM  
...the history of the continent begins with what is translated as the Dreamtime, the creation myth that tells of the origins of its peoples, animals and geography. Dreamtime traditions were - and continue to be - recorded in songlines and stories throughout Australia...In The Dreaming Everywhen of unbounded timelessness, these shapeshifting Totemic Spirit Beings (sometimes called Sky Heroes, or Creative Ancestors) dream: dream of waking, waking in dream. Their dreamings are of their future waking pastimes, dreaming their past. Upon dreaming and waking these shapeshifting Creative Spirit Beings transform into one another. The dreaming constitues the seed-patterning (refer Guruwari), the archetypal patterning, the 'dreamform' thoughtform of their future waking pastimes. Upon waking in play, they embody and manifest their dreamforms of animals, plants, people, constellations, land features, elemental processes and natural phenomena and/or inanimate objects and their energetic existence is revealed by their formative journeyings, their relationships and in their engaging archetypal pastimes. This formative manifestation of The Dreaming is in turn a phantasmagoria and archetypal play of energy. This primordial formation in nonlocal timelessness is a temporal and spatial confluence, a simultanous happening: evocative dreamings, dreams within dreams, each dreaming the other into being.

The Totemic Spirit Beings invest and merge their primordial archetypal essence-quality into all aspects of phenomenality; animate and inanimate. The totemic life spirit of human beings derives from these connections with the Spirit Beings and The Dreaming of the land. Therefore, each human being may be considered an emanation of the primordial totemic Spirit Beings and their spirit invested in The Dreaming and totems of the land. At death, the spirit returns to The Dreaming.
 
2007-03-21 12:12:56 PM  
That hypothesis has been speculated for some time, not due to the existence of any map but due to the strange coincidence that a bunch of words which are part of the australian aborigine's vocabulary are oddly enough exactly like the portuguese counterparts.


/me portuguese
 
2007-03-21 12:19:59 PM  
GreatBunzinni: but due to the strange coincidence that a bunch of words which are part of the australian aborigine's vocabulary are oddly enough exactly like the portuguese counterparts.

Which aborigines? And which words?
If it is costal groups and words for things that the abos didn't have, such as ships and gonorrhea, that would be cool.
 
2007-03-21 12:25:32 PM  
I too heard that some aboriginal tribes had a word for musket, in Portugese, before comming in contact with the English.
 
2007-03-21 12:30:13 PM  
what the fark is a Portugal

Laughing like an idiot at my desk. For some reason found this hilarious.
 
2007-03-21 12:41:58 PM  
I thought the Chinese were there first
 
2007-03-21 12:47:39 PM  
Daddy_was_a_Donkey: I thought the Chinese were there first

Menzies is a crap historian.

To paraphrase his book;
"See that ship-shaped coral reef in the Bahamas?"
"Yeah"
"That's a sunken Chinese junk from Zheng He's expedition to America!"
"Have you done any digging to check it out?"
"Um..no. But it's kind of shaped like a ship, don't you think?"
 
2007-03-21 12:47:53 PM  
Daddy_was_a_Donkey

1421 ftw
 
2007-03-21 12:53:09 PM  
Olcky Yeah, some of it was a bit tenuous, but some of it was quite compelling.

As I'm lazy, I can't be arsed to find links and exact quotes, but I'm sure he mentioned (a) the language of some indiginous tribe in S.America being closer to mandarin than that of a tribe a couple of miles down the road (b) the fact that Magellan had a map (c) jade objects being found in S.America and (d) certain S.American plants being found in Oz.

Anyone else read it and not nearly as lazy as me/actually has a functioning memory?
 
2007-03-21 12:56:42 PM  
"Plese quit playing word games for the sake of riding down Western European achievement, huh?"

Lolz. Shall I call the whaaaambulance for ya?
 
2007-03-21 12:59:17 PM  
other than the map, is there any other proof? the Vinland map is backed up by artifacts found in North America.
/I know, it hasn't been proven either way but the items found lend some credibility to it
 
2007-03-21 01:01:40 PM  
It has always amazed me how Europeans discovered everything.
Around St. Louis there are signs that say something like 'Visit Meramec Caverns - Discovered by Jesse James!'
Boy, were the local Indians stunned when he showed it to them.
 
2007-03-21 01:05:00 PM  
The article does say portugese artifacts have been discovered along the coast.
Also, regarding Oz being the dumping ground for British criminals, this only started after the previous dumping ground declared independence and started a ruckus over taxes and tea.
Or something.
 
2007-03-21 01:20:14 PM  
the aboriginies that "discovered" it first forgot there was a rest of the world after they decided to live there.....
 
2007-03-21 01:21:59 PM  
I have better technology than you......I own
 
2007-03-21 01:24:29 PM  
filthhorseman

I was just about to offer a kleenex myself.
 
2007-03-21 01:28:33 PM  
NYRBill

other than the map, is there any other proof? the Vinland map is backed up by artifacts found in North America.

/I know, it hasn't been proven either way but the items found lend some credibility to it


Kind-of, sort-of, not really. There's a fabled Mahogany Ship which nobody seems to be able to find and a bunch of Portuguese cannons from the early 16th Century somewhere around Timor. Wikilink

The standard theory was that Australia was first discovered by a Dutch pirate in 1606. The "Capitan Cook discovered it" theory is just wrong and is repeated by people who don't know any better. He "claimed" Australia (or at least it's Eastern Coast) for the British.

And AFAIK, the Vikings in Vinland has been pretty much proven. It just takes some time for these things to filter down and sink in with the general population who were fed the story of the Columbus at school.
 
2007-03-21 01:32:53 PM  
Oh, there's also the interesting fact that in 1529 the Portuguese renegotiated the Treaty of Tordesillas (which divided the entire world between themselves and the Spanish), shifting the line of demarcation 17 degrees east. There's nothing of interest which lies within that 17 degrees, except the east coast of Australia.
 
2007-03-21 01:39:04 PM  
Gandalf_is_dead

Also, regarding Oz being the dumping ground for British criminals, this only started after the previous dumping ground declared independence and started a ruckus over taxes and tea.

Georgia was just along for the ride.
 
2007-03-21 01:45:05 PM  
Bad_Seed
And AFAIK, the Vikings in Vinland has been pretty much proven. It just takes some time for these things to filter down and sink in with the general population who were fed the story of the Columbus at school.

there is an article about Vinland on Wiki with a link to their article about the artifacts found in Canada. there is some slight dispute as to whether Canada is in fact "Vinland" but they were there around 1000AD.
 
2007-03-21 01:49:33 PM  
I love Portugese chicken

Nando's is South African though.


Exactly. If the Poras did discovered Aussie, where's the remnants of their corner-shops?

/Last year I saw the oldest European buildings in the southern hemisphere on a visit to Ilha de Mozambique .
 
2007-03-21 01:58:42 PM  
she comes in colors - Sorry, I'm a farking retard when it comes to acronyms. QFT is what, quit farking thinking; quit farking trying; quit fundie talking, I'm at a loss - what is QFT?
 
2007-03-21 02:00:51 PM  
Don't you just hate it when an entire continent like that just goes missing and you know only a European can find it for you. Arogant Euros.
 
2007-03-21 02:02:21 PM  
Bad seed - actually there is Viking mitochondria present in the bones of folks that were buried at the time the pilgrims landed in Plymouth; and for that matter, there is Viking mitochrondria in the bones of the people that were living there before the pilgrims landed.
 
2007-03-21 02:04:03 PM  
QFT: Quoted For Truth... it's a compliment.
 
2007-03-21 02:04:40 PM  
Hah, damn straight MerlinX. I also hate it when some damned natives get in the way of manifest destiny, so i slaughter them. Also, i hate it when those damned Philipinos don't want to trade so i generally send in the armed forces and make them. Also, when arrogant people misspell arrogant, that also gets on my tits.
 
2007-03-21 02:16:47 PM  
jingks - thanks; a rare thing for me indeed.
 
2007-03-21 02:30:49 PM  
It's either Quantum Field Theory or Quoted For Truth.

Kinda like the quantum one myself. Sounds scienceyer.
 
2007-03-21 02:34:50 PM  
In order to be a country you need:
a flag
a football team
and a beer
it also helps to have nuclear weapons but we'll forgive them for that because nobody had any in the 15th century except maybe Xenu

Abos were obviously lacking in nation building skills

/apologies to Frank Zappa for paraphrase
 
2007-03-21 03:06:48 PM  
Go Portugal.
 
2007-03-21 03:10:12 PM  
They deported people to their own colonies - I read that they shipped all their Gypsies to Brazil and Africa in the 18th century.
 
2007-03-21 03:11:37 PM  
strange coincidence that a bunch of words which are part of the australian aborigine's vocabulary are oddly enough exactly like the portuguese counterparts.

Guess what the Japanese word for "bread" is.
And they didn't get it from Spaniards, either.

Portugal had the hook-ups, man.
 
2007-03-21 03:12:44 PM  
other than the map, is there any other proof? the Vinland map is backed up by artifacts found in North America.

I think we know the Vikings probably landed somewhere in North America. We don't know if they were just visiting, or tried to set up a permanent settlement, or what. So yeah, they beat Columbus.

The Vinland MAP on the other hand, is pretty suspect.
 
2007-03-21 03:16:34 PM  
Portugese came to North America before the English also.

/I'm Melungeon
//look it up
 
2007-03-21 03:28:26 PM  
yelmrog
I think we know the Vikings probably landed somewhere in North America. We don't know if they were just visiting, or tried to set up a permanent settlement, or what. So yeah, they beat Columbus.

they built homes and other buildings so I'd think they planned to stay for a bit.
/I said the map is suspect but I'm sure there was a real map that looked like it since they did go to Canada
 
2007-03-21 03:33:04 PM  
Again, again, you viking retards - there is VIKING MITOCHONDRIA in the bones of the natives who lived in the area where the Pilgrims landed.

And, if you folks who are interested in all this really want to know about pre-columbia visits to the "new world" read "1492" - its an amazing bit of research and very well written.
 
2007-03-21 05:13:25 PM  
jcache
In order to be a country you need:
a flag
a football team
and a beer
it also helps to have nuclear weapons but we'll forgive them for that because nobody had any in the 15th century except maybe Xenu


Check, check, and check.

i10.photobucket.com

i10.photobucket.com

i10.photobucket.com

Don't think they have nukes, though.
 
2007-03-21 05:42:56 PM  
Those guys don't look like football players, they look like soccer players
/let the bashing from soccer players begin
 
2007-03-21 06:18:48 PM  
go angloshpere !

/sorry
//luv that word
/anglosphere
 
2007-03-21 08:12:13 PM  
"Bay Aryan" is a cool geographic term too!
 
2007-03-21 09:44:08 PM  
Damn you to Hell, inkling79.
 
2007-03-21 09:57:35 PM  
Why does Portugal have a trampoline on their flag?
 
2007-03-22 03:07:46 AM  
Lifeguard Lizzie
What's their access to NATO nukes?
 
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