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(   The most amazing Sept 11th pictures you might ever see.   ( divider line
    More: Sad  
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267483 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Aug 2002 at 5:18 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

287 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-08-12 10:07:36 AM  
Looks like my anti-Harmonia rhetoric got deleted too

[image from too old to be available]

2002-08-12 10:07:59 AM  
moving forward with this thread...
Ignore the trolls.
Leave the Political Discussion for another thread.
2002-08-12 10:08:39 AM  
My vantage point on 9/11 was as good if not better (or worse!) than Biggart, as I work at 1 Liberty Plaza, which is directly across the street, but I had the wherewithal to hightail it out of there. He was a courageous but foolish man, as I'm sure his family would rather have him than his last role of film.
2002-08-12 10:08:51 AM  
The human race is doomed, and this thread proves it.

So many different realities, and everyone of them is convinced they are right.
2002-08-12 10:11:05 AM  
Thanks Chrisifa I am still waking up and my HTML skeelz are slow today.
2002-08-12 10:11:24 AM  
By the way, more photos from that website you might like to see.
2002-08-12 10:16:23 AM  
DO they know it was real? It wasn't a made for TV movie???

I've thought about this extensively, and I think that for most people, the answer is both yes and no. They believe that it is real, but can't quite reach the same level of reality as the rest of us who were here to see with our own eyes what went on. It's not necessarily their fault, as sympathy and empathy can realistically only go so far; but there is definitely a difference.
2002-08-12 10:18:45 AM

This is really nice, a good correction if you think the world is against america
2002-08-12 10:18:47 AM  
This was a pic I saw at the exhibit that really got me....
[image from too old to be available]
2002-08-12 10:19:59 AM  
I was actually in France on the Mediterranean with my girlfriend on vacation when the towers fell.

As we walked out to the beach, the matron of the hotel and the bellhop were intently watching a TV in the parlor. We didn't see what they were watching and went out totally unaware that the world had changed.

We spent a beautiful hot day at the beach, sunning ourselves. I had started to read "The Good Soldier Svek", a Czech novel from World War I that ultimately focuses on the absurdities of war.

We came back to the hotel that evening. My girlfriend went into the shower to wash the sand off her and I turned on the TV. On a German language channel I saw the second plane slam into the tower on tape. The sky was blue and cloudless behind the upper third of the white tower. Smoke could be seen off to the side of the picture and then, from off screen a jumbo jet streaked towards and was absorbed into the tower with a gush of flame. I thought it might be a movie, but knew almost immediately it wasn't.

I looked for CNN, BBC - anything in English and found a channel where they showed the New York skyline with two gaping holes. By this time, I'd called R (my gf) into the room, telling her "something big happened in New York".

We watched and held each other as the shock and the enormity of what had happened rolled over us from the tiny TV.

When we returned to Paris, we noticed a strange mix of reactions. My friends work for the OECD in Paris and are well integrated into the ex-pat international community there. The Europeans and Brits were kind but cautious around us. The mass for the dead a couple days later was particularly comforting as our prickly allies the French turned out in large numbers to express sympathy.

The Australians and Kiwis, on the other hand were downright boisterously supportive of us. That was welcome, but made me feel strange, like I should be angrier or sadder, or both. Mostly, I felt numb.

We spent more time in Paris that week than intended becasue of the flight cancellations. When we rode the metro, we sometimes sat near or across from Arab-looking people and the expressions on their faces were a mix of sympathy somtimes, hatred other times, and occasionally either or both mixed with what seemed to be fear.

We left four days later than intended, due to the groundings. When we touched down in Pittsburgh, the plane erupted in a cheer and a sigh of relief that we were home in the USA and down safely on the ground.
2002-08-12 10:21:15 AM  
I will never forget where I was when the WTC collapsed. I was working for Sprint in Kansas City and walked into one of their control rooms, (you know, the ones in the commercials that shows all the telephone traffic) and there it was on these huge displays. Very moving to see all these people screaming, crying and hugging. Very moving. Very vivid seeing it on a Jumbotron too!

But hey, I spent all of Y2K eve watching a hostage bank robbery from a friends van,
2002-08-12 10:21:30 AM  
I'm lucky enough to be married to a talented artist.

Unable to express her grief and horror, last September and October she created a series of works about the attack that let what she felt go onto the canvass. Powerful stuff.

By pure luck, this series was noticed by the Hunter Museum in Chattanooga, Tennessee. They were planning an anniversary exhibit and they liked what they saw.

Her work goes on display September 7th at the Hunter. Before you point fingers and shout commercialism, be aware that museum exhibits are NOT sales events. The only thing she gets from this is a new line on her resume.

Anyway, you're all invited to come to Chattanooga to see her work. I'll be the one with the bloodshot, glassy eyes and a bag of Oreos.
2002-08-12 10:23:10 AM  
i beleive the phrase" And pooof you are now a pile of shiat "should clear that up
2002-08-12 10:24:02 AM  
You know, husband takes picture of wife and
kids in front of the destruction while they smile and wave.

Not being from NYC, I did visit ground zero as a tourist. But I must say, I didn't see any behaviour such as you noted above. When we got to the site, it was a very solemn place - everyone was pretty much solitary, lost in their thoughts. Many were crying. Until you see the ground zero site for yourself, it's very difficult to understand the level of destruction - you can see the WTC crumble on TV, but you see movies blow up the white house every day and it's difficult to understand and comprehend exactly how real this was, exactly the level of devastation, until you see it for yourself. And I think that's the point of letting people see ground zero. I took photos - not because I wanted to "show them off", but because it's difficult to explain to other people exactly how being at that site affects you. Things like the buildings on all sides of the WTC that are still standing, but shrouded, most of their windows cracked or shattered. Things like the wall by the church, covered with tributes and memoriams and lost signs.

You're always going to have bonehead tourists, but in my experience, ground zero had fewer boneheads than most places, and I came away from there sobered and saddened.
2002-08-12 10:28:51 AM  
Nightsweat: I think that's because Aussies and Kiwis are much more similar than Europeans to Americans. I'm not sure exactly why but there you go.

I just heard about it when I woke up on the morning of sept 12 (no i'm not lazy, time differences) and watched the news in disbelief. When I arrived at school we just watched the news all morning and cheered as Bush made his first major speech.
2002-08-12 10:30:04 AM  
SuburbanCowboy and LeeHerMan
And I have posted several times about how much I hate the fact that it is a "tourist" spot.

There is without a doubt a high percentage of gawkers, but I also have to believe that for many of those "tourists" there is genuine therapeutic value. New York City is my Oz, it has always inspired awe. My last trip into the greater NYC metro area was to change planes in Newark, April 2001. I flew in from the north, right at sunset and the clearest visible landmark in Manhattan was the sun reflecting of the Trade Center towers.

I have had to regrettably pass on opportunities to visit the city in this past year. I don't know that I would need to visit the site, but I do know that seeing the skyline in person would, for me, be much the same as visiting the grave of an old friend whose funeral I was unable to attend.

Perhaps the lack of time makes so many locals uncomfortable with outsiders, but as with places like Normandy and Pearl Harbor, people come to places that have been home to unspeakable carnage because for better or worse, it gives them a tangible connection to it. And it would be my hope that many of those people leave with a greater respect for the events that took place there.
2002-08-12 10:31:26 AM  
I also got deleted so I'll try more civility.

That horrible Teusday, and I despise Teusdays, I was asleep with the TV on. I was in that cat-like half-sleep mode and saw the news with a burning trade center. I thought to myself "oh no not that dream again". I had seen it before. My friend called me up a few minutes later and wondered if I was seeing this. I told him it was just a dream, then I fully awoke. I asked if this was a movie stunt. It wasn't. Oh crap. Next thing I know another airplane smashes into Tower 2. Oh crap!

I grabbed my army helmet, strapped my pistol onto my hip and began drinking like a fish. I stayed awake for over 30 hours watching the horror. Then I heard these anti-american women of a different sexual proclivity saying how America deserves the terror and all Americans should die. I flipped out, got in a row, ended up in the loony bin. One very,very bad week.

I also lost an IRC buddy who was a cool guy, but I never saw his face and knew not much about him. Still makes me sadder than I can stand sometimes.

Now, here's a question, do you have dreams about 9-11? I had them before it happened and now I have them practically every night. I think the whole nation has been scarred for life.
2002-08-12 10:34:35 AM  
Not to undermine the pictures or anything, but anyone else notice how whoever wrote this article can't spell? :P
2002-08-12 10:35:40 AM  
Conradknight ~~ IMHO, looking at the posts prior to Harmonia, most were paying tribute to the photographer in question and also sharing their own feelings/experiences of that particular day (Something very much like a funeral ~ yes?).

What was being discussed was Not the things that have happened since, or even the reasons why these people felt they needed to do what they did. And a more appropriate place would have been a discusion board geared toward that ^ topic.
2002-08-12 10:38:15 AM  


I first re-visited downtown during November, 2001.  I'd been relocated
as a result of the destruction so I had no other reason to go down other than to
see the aftermath.  I couldn't bring myself to visit sooner.

Even during the 11/2001 visit I noticed a family taking a photo in the matter
I described.  It was not the norm at that time, though people were taking
somber pictures and generally exhibiting the behavior you'd expect when visiting
a "mass burial site".

However, 11 months later, now that I've returned downtown for almost two
months now, the scene is now of a tourist trap.  Lots 'o' photos, and
plenty of knock-off FDNY and NYPD shirts for sale.  I still find it

For the record, I finally took some photos in April, when I returned to my
old office for the first time to pack my stuff.  I've got no problem with
taking photos in that manner, and I took them more for myself than anyone else,
though I did share them with friends and family.  The photos were taken
from 14 stories above ground level and show the clean-up efforts nicely. 
Photos available on request.

2002-08-12 10:38:58 AM  
I finally get a link posted.. and its one of the saddest i've ever seen..

My GF was here in Newfoundland with me when it happened.. she is a native New Yorker and her mother was in the city alone recovering from a mild heart attack about a week before.. It was one of the most tense days in my life.. I remember feeding information from CBC and what ever news source I could find to an american friend so he could post it in his LiveJournal and keep the people who couldn't get to a TV informed about what was happening.
2002-08-12 10:42:13 AM  
PegLeg, I agree totally with you. But, it is one thing to go there to mourn or pay your respects. It is totally unacceptable to use it as a photo opportunity. People shouldn't be smiling in front of a camera there. It is disrespectful and ignorant.

On the subway the other day, I saw a family, obviously tourists. The youngest girl, must've been 8 or 9, was looking at a big picture book of photos from 9-11. The book was called "Day of Terror" or something sick like that. She was flipping through the pages like it was a Dr. Seuss book or something. A girl that age, with parents dumb enough to buy her something like that, doesn't really grasp what happened that day. Trivializing it with bad products is going to give us of a generation of kids that has no idea what that day meant to so many people, and how it tore so many people's lives to shreds.
2002-08-12 10:44:36 AM  
these pictures are amazing, yet at the same time disturbing...i hate thinking back and seeing the plane fly into the towers, but at the same time i'm somewhat glad i was there...anyone else here that worked in the John St. area?
2002-08-12 10:45:15 AM  
No hypocrisy. As I said, I shall not morn the loss of the hijackers lives in anyway shape or form. Their familes in their sick belief they are martyrs will morn them. But I will not. Many of the terrorists who fight our forces in Afganistaion are young and brainwashed into believing they will become martyrs. Do they not have families?

I morn the innocent people killed in WTC attacks and innocent men, women and children killed in the bombing of afghanistan by my country and the USA.

It's a shame I have to spell it out for you Nightsweat.

A life, is a life. Live with it.
2002-08-12 10:49:30 AM  
A few things from my prospective:

1. I can't look at the pictures or view that video with Enya singing in the background without getting chocked up.

2. The NYPD, NYFD, NYEMTs, and all other personnel that worked that day and the days that followed are heroes. Every one of them.

3. The personnel that worked the Pentagon were heroes.

4. The personnel that worked the Pennsylvania crash site were heroes.

5. Todd Beamer and the passengers on all the flights (DC, NY and PA) were all heroes.

6. I can understand (in a twisted way) why Bin Laden wanted to bomb the Pentagon. His grudge is with the US military and wanted to throw a wrench into the works. But, to bomb the WTC? I know that by doing that, he hampered our financial networks. But there was little if any military aspect to the WTC. From that, comes my anger. I know that there are phases people go through when they greave. I have not let go of the anger.

7. I am not an uncaring man. I care very much for my family, friends and the people of the United States (all races, religions and nationalities). But I believe Bin Laden is evil. He must be removed from the face of the earth. And the US has the know how to do it.

8. May God bless the souls lost.
2002-08-12 10:49:57 AM  
I was so struck by the pictures of the police and firefighters.
i think of the men and women in and under those buildings, and the people in the plane that went down in PA, and to me they inhabit spaces in time that are impenetrable, shrouded in mystery. we can't know what they did under thaose towers, or in that plane, because they were obliterated entirely and wiped off the Earth. Although they are revered, their specific deeds are not remembered, for rescuer and rescued alike were buried and pulverized into dust, or strewn in pieces across a field.
These pictures are a small window into that mystery. Imagine a relative of one of these firemen or police, seeing one of these pictures, and for the first time being able to understand what happened to their loved one and what they were doing when they died. Imagine us all being able to understand.
THAT is the value of walking toward a collapsing building with a camera.
2002-08-12 10:52:37 AM  
There is a time and place for every conversation. Some of you have no tact. This is not the time nor the place for some of you to whine about deleted posts or political crap. Get over yourselves and stop trying to make yourselves the story because you are not.
2002-08-12 10:54:24 AM  
The pic that gets me every time is the one where the firemen are carrying Father Mike out of the building. I saw the documentary made by those 2 brothers that followed that particular squad (? if that's what they are called) and I can still hear the bodies of the jumpers making that sickening thud as they fall onto the roof above them. What pure hell must they all have gone through. It makes me shake to think about it.
2002-08-12 10:54:49 AM  
Let me just put my two cents in by saying I *did* know people that were victims of the attack. I knew one of the passengers on the first plane to hit the WTC, someone who worked on the 47th floor of Tower 2, and a New York City firefighter. Now I'm not looking for a lot of sympathy, as the only one I knew well, the woman who worked in Tower 2, survived, the other two were passing acquaintances. My brother-in-law also worked part-time in the WTC as a temp employee, and fortunately was not assigned to that office on September 11. So Harmonia, your assumption is incorrect.

Now that I've said that, let me also say that the photographer on this link was not only a hero, but his contribution is different, a little more subtle than one would think. Because of the way he put himself forward, not just to take some pictures, but to record what was obviously an historic event, we have this moving record of one of the most horrific days in history, and *THE* most horrific in your or my memory. Unless you were standing around Hiroshima or Nagasaki, I don't think there's much that can compare with what we all saw on that day.

Yes, people die in war. Yes, the US action probably caused civilian casualties. Yes, that sucks. However, take a look through these pictures and tell me how there should be no response to such a cowardly, senseless act of murder. They declared war on us, years ago. It was demonstrated on 9/11 very clearly. When the comment was made in 1941 about waking a sleeping giant, it is the most accurate description I have ever heard. Democratic societies are incredibly inefficient and look weak and ineffective to the outside world, until they are angered. For many years, the government has been trying to do something about Bin Laden, and only received ridicule in the local press and comparisons to "Wag The Dog" were made. Until 9/11 these actions that were taken were limited in scope, and tried to be precisely targeted. They are the ones who escalated the levels of this war, and the Taliban backed them up and provided a base of operations for this war. Sorry, but they brought themselves into this conflict. Yes, it's tragic that many people lost their lives over the past 11 months. Noone feels this more keenly than the people serving in the Armed Forces of the nations invloved in teaching a lesson to those who would commit such heinous acts. But we did not start this. We will, however, finish it. And because of people like Bill Biggart, we have everlasting reminders of why we cannot allow the people responsible to go unpunished.
2002-08-12 11:02:36 AM  
I'm originally from Oklahoma City, and I lost two high-school buddies when T.M. blew up the federal building. Somehow it made it easier to accept by looking at all the photos taken right after the blast and the subsequent events. It made be aware that I was not the only one shocked and horrified.

My hat's off to all the brave photographers that documented the attack on the World Trade Center. I'm pretty sure I would have just turned away and hauled ass.
2002-08-12 11:03:13 AM

Some disturbing stuff.
2002-08-12 11:06:44 AM  
Nightsweat: No problem. Glad it made things clearer for you.

To take images like this shows a great deal of bravery. To even hold a camera when you would be shaking from the shock is amazing. God bless him and everyone who died on that horrible day.
2002-08-12 11:08:56 AM  
The most disturbing thing for me was the jumpers. The big CBS documentary a few moths ago did not show them, but there was a sickening thud every few seconds or so when they would show footage of the NYFD command center inside the second tower. I don't know how anyone could think clearly with that going on.
2002-08-12 11:12:17 AM  
When I was a boy on Long Island, my mom and dad would take me in to visit grandma and grandpa, who lived towards the City. There was one entrance ramp onto the LIE where, on a clear day, although they were 40 miles or so away, you could just make out the tops of the WTC peeking over the trees. Each trip, I would hope it would be clear enough to see them, and if we went up that ramp and I saw them there, I would get so excited.

Even though I'd been to NYC and the WTC dozens of times since, when I reflect on 9/11, my thoughts always go back to those excited little glimpses.
2002-08-12 11:14:49 AM  
Wow, hard to believe that it's nearly been a year since the WTC disaster. Seems only like yesterday. I'd love to look at the pictures from that site, but I could barely read a few paragraphs before my eyes got all watery. I can't find the words to express how those pictures made me feel. *goes outside to hang the flag*
2002-08-12 11:21:21 AM  
Basically, you've all read my account of what happened, so I won't repeat it. I still haven't been back downtown. I don't want to talk about it.

Harmonia posted some inappropriate stuff and apparently will be sitting in the corner for a while.
2002-08-12 11:22:06 AM  
suburbancowboy: why do people feel the need to 'own' 9/11 more than others? why do you hate people coming to see ground zero? i agree that while some might come and not feel awed by the significance of what is essentially a grave, those people are few.
2002-08-12 11:25:51 AM  

Too bad about the thread eviscerating that occurred today. I think it wholly appropriate to /rant on when this topic comes up and some seriously deluded bastage whines about the babies being killed in the ME or Asian Subcontinent by the "evil American bombs". We would have no interest in wasting our taxpayer dollars on that forsaken corner of Earth if it's inhabitants hadn't come over here and started some serious shyatt. Shyatt for which they and theirs will be punished for years to come.

God Bless the men, women and children, the innocents, who were unfairly taken from this world on 9-11-01.

2002-08-12 11:28:10 AM  
I cant read through all the comments to see if its already been done, and I was planning on trying to post this next month, but for anyone who hasnt read the days comments on fark, here they are:
2002-08-12 11:29:33 AM  
Ka Ching.
2002-08-12 11:29:36 AM  

It's not a question of "owning" "ground zero". It's a question of respect and appropriate behavior.

Most people wouldn't go to a cemetary and start taking photos, so I can't quite understand why they do so in downtown NYC. Perhaps I see things differently because I was there, and shouldn't judge others, but I'm funny that way.
2002-08-12 11:29:42 AM  

I realize you directed your post to suburbancowboy, but I feel I needed to add.

People do not 'own' 9-11. People were affected by it in differing degrees. If you wish to argue that point, a person losing a loved one has a significantly different stake in it than someone who did not. (Just an example.)

Second, the people coming to see ground zero as a tourist attraction are not few. A couple of guys from the cleanup crew have told me they see hundreds of asshats a day.
When I say asshat it's the family picture type asshats that have previously been mentioned.

Persons going there for grieving are not the asshats.

You are completely incorrect when you say. "those people are few."
2002-08-12 11:30:33 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
2002-08-12 11:31:06 AM  
Not to be gross, but I have seen the video of the doctor that carried a videocamera with him when he went in to help. In the video, you here a constant beeping noise. I thought it was all the car alarms going off. But it turns out that firefighter have alarms that go off if they do not move for over a minute or so. Very chilling.
2002-08-12 11:31:33 AM  
Also, anyone else flaming on this subject will join him.
2002-08-12 11:37:26 AM  
2002-08-12 11:40:17 AM  
I certainly wasn't trying to justify people who don't act with dignity and respect when they go to ground zero. I think that's really pathetic. But banning all tourists who want to see where it all happened seems stupid too, people who could get a lot out of visiting the site. I also understand that there are differing shades of experience, losing a loved one vs being close to the physical event vs hearing about it on tv. it just seems strange to me that all of my friends who live in new york (none of whom lost loved ones fortunately) are very quick to say 'oh, you couldn't understand what is was like to be there'. they seemed to need to illegitimize the rest of the country's feelings about 9/11. sems like it would be a lot mroe healthy to just listen and share all of our experiences, as opposed ot this discrediting of non-new yorkers...
2002-08-12 11:40:41 AM  
I will always remember waking up in the ER, dehydrated and unable to stand, watching the 2nd plane hit and my already mutated reality became surreal tenfold.

Come 9/11 I will probably revisit the hospital and try to gain perspective and humilty.
2002-08-12 11:45:07 AM  
Its not really that cool. 9/11 was one of the most photographed events in history.

I dont think he bought anything for his life. He didnt save anyone, or attempt to save anyone. He was chasing the money you get when you take photos of a breaking news story.

By being a glory hound, he deprived his friends and family of his company for the rest of their lives.
Losing someone you are close to hurts like hell. Losing a person because he was trying to get pictures to make him famous is even sadder.
2002-08-12 11:46:09 AM  
suburbancowboy: why do people feel the need to 'own' 9/11 more than others?

I don't feel the need to own it, at all. I was affected by it, but I know I wasn't affected by it nearly as much as thousands of other people that lost loved ones.
I find it disgraceful, the way I saw people acting when I was down there. Seeing people all happy and taking pictures is sickening when you see other people there crying. When you see people trying to make a quick buck off of merchandise that no one should be buying in the first place, that too is sickening. Buy an NYPD shirt of FDNY shirt, and buy it from a legitimate source.
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