Factory81k, yes, the thread is giving me chills.

Re: Many posters on "You had to be there", I agree, but don't devalue someone else's experience because they were not. Unlike Viet Nam, there was no warning, no numbing of the senses, little edititing to prep people. I guarantee you that no one who lived through Kennedy's assasination will say you had to be at Dealy Plaza to experience it.

But the only written account that truly carries the shock that New Yorkers must have went through to me is right here. If you don't read the whole article, just read the last paragraph. It leaves tears in my eyes and me more than a little shakey. Even though I wasn't there.

Nostradamous my ass.

Phil are you sure your not Bevets? Just because people helped each other after some arabs crashed planes into major buildings doesn't mean that help was divinely inspired or whatever your attempting to insinuate. If a few 747s crashing into buildings and people caring restores your faith in humanity you have issues.

I think ThePhil has a right to come away from this thinking anything that brings him peace. It doesn't have to work for you.

Wow, I had a whole post ready but Mrdark pretty much summed up exactly why it's different. Bravo. Thank you. A few other clarifications.

Educated's post is an excellent example of the way I view the tourists at ground zero. "we ALL were damaged that day" - clearly - and my entire point is that the wound is deeper for some than others, in particular those who live in downtown New York. The way that post is written it's apparent you have no concept of that. My original point was the sickness I felt knowing that many people will watch the 9/11 anniversary not because they still have pain that needs healing, but for the human drama. I assume that most of the 9/11 anniversary stuff will take place in NY, so I'm pointing out that the greif everyone is going to see (from widows, etc) will be much greater than the greif they themselves had, and to not buy into the drama and the close ups of CNN zooming in on the fireman holding a flag, with a tear rolling down his cheek as America the Beautiful is played. I'm not sure what you sould do, just be aware of how the media takes a sad situation and tries to make a buck.

Mrdark was dead on with the greif part. I truly had no idea how terrified people in DC were because most of the attention was on the WTC. Reading through these posts I see that.

I'm not bragging about pain here, I don't even know why anyone would ever do that. Just saying that the greif you'll be seeing on 9/11/02 will be very different than the greif you experienced (more for some, less for others - we all took it differently).

SuburbanCowboy- have you been participating in the online discussions that the LDMC has been holding? ie listeningtothecity.com? It's almost over now but it was a good oppertunity for new yorkers to clear their mind about a memorial and the new WTC site, to people that actually have influance over what the site will look like. You can read through the threads if not.

Whatever you all feel, thinking about it and talking about it has made me feel a lot better since I looked at those pics this morning. Fark rules.

Another link to a different story on Bill Biggart. This one from MSNBC/Newsweek. A little more in-depth story behind the story stuff. What a guy.

Remembering back the news reports I remember being severely peeved by some of the reporters. Maybe this was just me, but did it bother anyone that almost immediatly as the story broke Dan Rather and other anchors began telling those 'late to work' stories? I remember most the one about the girl who wanted a sandwich and the mom was late to work because of it. Yes this was a good thing..but did they have to tell those immediatly? Couldn't they wait? ..I hate to seem callous..because I'm not, I think.

While it's not a deep emotional story such as those here, September 11th definitely had mixed impact on the rest of the country.

I was in a 2nd period journalism class (actually, it was newslab during school, but same thing)at the time. I can't remember who found out about first, but we dropped everything and watched the tv for the rest of class. Later in the day, a few of the GAFFers (those who Give A Flying Fark) deciced to hold an optional prayer ceremony for anyone to attend. This is a public high school, so it may have not been the brightest idea, but even as half-Christian (Jesus maybe, religion no) I saw the need for it. Of course it was dominated by Christian prayer, being composed of middle-class white kids mostly.

A big fuss was raised by the mother of a Jewish kid who attended. The whole thing was about innappropriateness, unfairness, and unsensitivity. I just wanted to give her a good one in the breastbasket. Sure he may have felt a little left out, and I'm sorry for any real grief he experienced, but his mom is one of those biatches who fights for the rights of other people who aren't being infringed. It's not like anyone said "Jesus will help us through this time, so you Jews are f*cked," they were praying solely to God 80% of the time, who just happens to be the God of the Jews and Muslism, too. And besides, when you go to a school that's had a maximum of 6 black people attend in one year, you need to expect a prayer ceremony held on 9/11 to be Christian in nature, if not completely and over the top.

Some people are just good at ignoring the big picture and looking at their own I guess.

thelander: it's spelled 'g r i e f '

I work for a company who's #1 customer is CitiGroup, who as some of you may/may not know has around three great big building, especially One Citibank Plaza, in the New York area. Also, a branch of Citi, Salomon Smith Barney, had most of their offices destroyed in building 7.

That day started relatively early, as is the case around here. Business as usual, rushing frantically to get the day's workload done, and it was in one of those eras where we were completely swamped and working 14 hour days.

Then the news came, and suddenly all the work didn't mean anything anymore.

The entire office, all 80+ employees, were glued to the TV screens, trying frantically to call our points of contact on the seventh and eighth floors of Citi. I don't remember exactly when the official evacuation was given, but I remember hearing of some people that stood staring out the window of the building, wondering what the hell happened, only to see the second plane. One person hesitated in the evacuation because she wasn't sure where she'd prefer to be: out in the open on New York streets or locked inside a potential target.

I didn't lose anyone I know, but I have business contacts that did. I find myself worrying about people, people that on a normal business day I can't stand to talk to and curse their name, and how they were doing. Situations like this unify people to the point that the only enemy remaining is those that actually caused it.

I didnt say the help itself was divinely created, its just evidence that we have a soul deep down. We have a love for each other that, tho it only manifests in the worst of times, is powerful and definitely divinely created. To believe a brotherly love like this evolved from animals and bacteria and space dust is a little too crazy for me. I definitely see love as a divine gift.

Bevets mostly shows up on evolution threads. I take over for him on the other ones. :)
Personally, I like the guy.
*highfive for bevets!*

its amazing how a few photos can bring back all the sorrow and pain of the tragic day. I'm glad to see them again so to not forget that the enemy wants us dead.

We all have the choice to embrace victim status or work through it and eventually get way over it.

You cant and wont and dont want to forget, but you can make the choice define your life on your terms, and not in terms of 9/11.


Our world was rocked, no doubt. But how long it keeps rocking because of 9/11 is up to us.

thelelander, yes. i agree. some were more affected personally ... you, clearly, were more affected personally than i. but this is not a contest, so . . .

"The way that post is written it's apparent you have no concept of that. My original point was the sickness I felt knowing that many people will watch the 9/11 anniversary not because they still have pain that needs healing, but for the human drama."

this is exactly why i will not be watching the 9/11 anniversary. I can not stand the idea of people profiting (money or ratings) off of this. i certainly will not contribute to it.
I apologize for the way i must have come off for you to write the above. i assumed you were in the profiteering business (emotional) and you assumed i was in the bandwagon business (dumb shiat, liberal commie, total ass, etc). i meant no offense, as i am sure you did not. respect and acknowledgement all around.

Rbuzby

Our world was rocked, no doubt. But how long it keeps rocking because of 9/11 is up to us.

Well, I hope the mods will leave this in place, because it touches on the political, but I think it is germane to the thread.

Our world wasn't "rocked," it was kicked over. Hard. And the ramifications are still rumbling through the whole world. The U. S. and many european countries have put in place draconian restrictions on civil liberties. We tend to think on a wartime footing. Few people snicker at "flag wavers" any more. The U.S. got (and, regretfully, pissed away) goodwill from countries ranging from England to Cuba, Australia to Iran.

We simply don't exist inthe same "universe" we used to, and the change from one to the other was unthinkable "before."

As for the 9/11 anniversary, while profits are a motive, what happened was history, and it is worth a look back. The CBS compilation of the Naudet footage was both impressive and tasteful, things I thought I'd never say about a current CBS production.

Doubtless there will be pontificating and pompousness from the likes of Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, Dan Rather and Andersen Cooper, but there will be news, too. We've changed a lot. Some guy stands up on a plane and tries to say "This is a Hijack--" and he's gonna get pummelled into his component cells before he gets any further. That wouldn't've happened before. Even in europe, where they've had a far more unpleasant history of hijackings.

So it's a fundamental change. Hopefully not too much of a change, because, IMHO, we're hurting ourselves as much as we're hurting "the enemy."

Wow, my last post was deleted.

I guess this is special time.

08-12-02 12:53:17 PM BigHonky

BigHonky,
I can't believe there was no SLAYER, Frank Zappa, or Dead Kennedys songs on that list.

Wallowing in it is not good and only makes certain evil people happier everyday .

I haven't seen Bevets in a while, thats probably because I don't read comments that often though. I just think that this whole dance party of self pity needs to end, your letting the turban warriors win the game.

Regardless of those who think wallowing in self-pity is letting the terrorists win, there is a legit reason for talking about things like this. It's a way of working through any grief/issues still surrounding 9/11. If any of you guys who think talking about 9/11 is a bad thing actually have the nuts to put everyone on a timetable for dealing with their grief... please, enlighten us. Date and time would be nice.

Rbuzby, must be nice to not have a soul.

jesus christ

Looks like I'm not too late on all this.

My husband and I were getting ready to go out hiking - I was in the shower when he comes pounding on the door, yelling at me that "they" had bombed the WTC and the Pentagon. It was around 11am central time. I nearly killed myself trying to get dressed and down to the TV. We spend the day glued to the news, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep. I cried more than once, and he did too - At the time he was still officially a cop, even though he was out on a back injury. He said, more than once, that he felt like he knew the officers that had died because they were the kind of cops that he was. There is no doubt in my mind that if we had lived any closer and/or if his back hadn't been farked up that he'd have been in the middle of that place inside of a day. It was killing him to not be able to do anything. Hell, he was ready to go back into the army.
Later that night we heard a jet fly over. We knew that all planes were still grounded... it took a few seconds to remember that we had F-16's flying patrol over the area. I remember being pissed that these farkwad terrorists had made me afraid of airplanes.

A week later we had an afternoon thunderstorm crop up while we were both asleep. I woke up thinking that it sounded more like morters or explosions. I lay there wondering if I should wake up my husband, but I didn't. Turns out he was thinking the same thing I was but didn't want to scare me.

We still have our gear ready for a bug out (It's also ready for a hurricane, we're practical geeks). I get choked up frequently over something I see or hear. I have my usual American flag on my badge for work along with an NYPD 9 11 badge.

And to top it all off, am I the only person who picked this out of FOTR? I mean, I about came unglued when I first saw FOTR and heard this. It still makes me choke up, big time...

Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happned.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

Goddamn dentist's office trips. I go in to get a farking wisdom tooth pulled, a series of x-rays shows I have a BB sized chunk of calcified stuff in a sinus. Never did get the wisdom tooth pulled.

Anywho, now that I'm off my high horse and back to reality, these are powerful images. I suppose I'll be talking to the grandchildren about that day in history.

I know some of this may have been said before and that some of this may p*ss people off, but here goes:

I like the story. It is a good story. It is not a sad story. What I like most of all is that the word "hero" is not mentioned once. That is what makes it real. To have called him a hero would have been wrong and detracted from the amazing pictures. He was photographing heroes. He wasn't helping. I would like to know the rationale he had for not helping these people. I would think that being a human being would outweigh being a journalist in a situation like this, but, obviously I am wrong.

To paraphrase Bobcat, "If you ever see me getting covered by a falling building, put down the camera and come help me!"

This has been one of the most interesting threads I've ever read, moderators censoring notwithstanding....

I wouldnt know.
Hysteria has never been my bag.

This is gonna make me sound completely naive, but I honestly figured that a computer error or some such thing was responsible for the two aircraft hitting the World Trade Center (when I first heard the news). Even after the word "terrorism" was first mentioned on television, I didn't think it could be a correct analysis -- I just didn't have any idea that people could be so evil. These were unarmed, defenseless civilians, after all. I honest-to-God thought it was a bug in the software or somthing akin to that. The bad news is that... yes, there are people out there in the world who are just this evil.

Some posts on FARK from that fateful day:

09-11-01 09:11:59 AM Mme.Mersault
Someone is going to get nuked.

09-11-01 09:12:34 AM Arcaist
*Two* planes crashes in *both* of the buildings? What's that, a terrorist attack??

09-11-01 09:16:32 AM ExcessiveForce
Unsane...all those people.
I agree with Mme.Mersault, but I'm not sure we'll nuke the right people. :/ There's no such thing as too much force.


09-11-01 09:17:13 AM Squinth
Man, this has to be intentional. How could the second pilot NOT see all the smoke and shiat?

This is horrible.

Squinth :(


09-11-01 09:20:34 AM Jaxomlotus
I SAW it happen on my morning commute. I'm shaken.


09-11-01 09:21:39 AM Monkyman
This is so completely messed up.
One of my co-workers sisters work in that building.


09-11-01 09:23:44 AM Bluefenderstrat
This is farking unbelievable. Bin Laden? Whoever did this must be killed.


09-11-01 09:24:35 AM Mme.Mersault
Osama.


09-11-01 09:26:37 AM Mungo
Mme: I actually doubt it was Osama - the Afghans know the kind of shiat they'll get if it's pinned on them - but it will be some religious extremists, you can bet that.


09-11-01 09:26:49 AM Mme.Mersault
People on the top floors are dead.


09-11-01 09:28:35 AM Mme.Mersault
Bush is going to speak at any moment. This should be good.


09-11-01 09:29:57 AM Sensate
Jaysus. I used to work there, in the S. tower. I'd have been dead.

Let's just make sure we get missile defense. As long as we have that, nothing will hurt us. (repeat)


09-11-01 09:30:29 AM Squinth
Significant date? Good question. I have no idea. Farfetched: today's date is 911.


Trading on the NYSE, etc. postponed indefinitely.

This is horrific.

G.W. is on live now, will report in a few.



09-11-01 09:31:20 AM Mme.Mersault
Bush:
"Apparent terrorist attack"
"Hunt down and find those folks who commited this act."



09-11-01 09:33:52 AM Corporate Mofo
I can see the towers from my office building. The pictures don't do it justice. Smoke--thick black smoke--is billowing from the top floors of both buildings. The news says hundreds of people have run out and are flooding lower Manhattan. I work above Penn Station, and my entire office is around the TV in the reception area.

The entire top sixth of each tower is engulfed in smoke. It looks like each plane may have taken out 20 floors in each tower. People above that will be trapped. They're unlikely to collapse, since they're built pretty strong. I pray to God for whoever's still in there.



09-11-01 09:34:35 AM AzraelBrown
Be proud, Fark - with the major internet newsfeeds down, Fark is my source for news on this :)


09-11-01 09:35:09 AM Mungo
Sensate: Yep, this kind of proves that the missile defense system is a crock. When a nuclear bomb destroys NYC, it won't be delivered by missile, it'll be delivered by UPS.


09-11-01 09:36:31 AM Sicksock
Holy Farking shiate!!!

Dubya's gonna open up a can of whoop-ass on who ever did this. Nothing like a little Texas justice to boost your approval rating.


09-11-01 09:37:49 AM Blackvampyr
For once, I think I'm glad that we have Bush in office. Oh, and I want to go home now.


09-11-01 09:40:04 AM AzraelBrown
Just reported: possible explosion at the Pentagon...


09-11-01 09:40:25 AM Monkyman
Your ass better be kidding


09-11-01 09:40:36 AM Qambient
its just been reported there was an explosion at the pentagon.



09-11-01 09:40:38 AM Redbull_(UK)
We are getting reports of a third plane hijacked.
Are you getting this ?????


09-11-01 09:40:46 AM Sicksock

Manhattan has been sealed off!?!?!?

This is gonna be interesting.



09-11-01 09:41:13 AM Henchman
Before we go off half-cocked, I want our agencies to get ALL of the facts. How many people yelled "nuke Iraq" before we discovered that one of our own bombed Oklahoma City?


09-11-01 09:41:38 AM Mungo
From the Telegraph:

It is believed one of the aircraft was a United Airlines 737 twin-engine plane carrying 150 passengers.

There are fears the towers could collapse due to structural damage.


09-11-01 09:42:03 AM Bloodypulp
One Jet was a united and the other was American Airlines


"September 11, 2001, a date that shall live in infamy"
Sound familiar?



09-11-01 09:42:04 AM Fb-
I hope we nuke those sand n1gg3rs back to hell.


09-11-01 09:42:24 AM Skullgrin
anyone heard anything about a fire at the pentagon? CNN has a braking news bar about it at tyhe bottom, but isn't reporting on it...


09-11-01 09:42:39 AM Drew
However keep in mind it's early in, and that details are generally farked initially


09-11-01 09:42:57 AM Slippy
I surrender.

Heard about it from coworkers as I walked into the office this morning, and spent about five minutes looking for something on the news sites - found 'em all farked, as noted.

Shortly after that, I remembered that we can see the towers from our building...and sure enough, gigantic plumes of smoke right out the top of the towers. Frightening.

Find who did it, and nuke the farking shiat out of them. I'm not a violent person, and frankly think that our little skirmishes with countries like Iraq are bullshiat. But this is uncalled for.



09-11-01 09:44:04 AM Albert

ITS TIME TO FACK SOME PEOPLE UP!

WE WILL TAKE 1000 LIVES FOR EVERY AMERICAN LIFE LOST!



09-11-01 09:44:09 AM Drew
One radio station just reported the pentagon is in flames. Part of it anyhow



09-11-01 09:45:25 AM Bluefenderstrat
We are at war!!



09-11-01 09:45:42 AM Drew
NPR was talking to a guy IN the Pentagon when it happened



09-11-01 09:46:42 AM Overlord
CNN says there's a fire on the Mall (the main road headed up to the White House).



09-11-01 09:47:55 AM Corporate Mofo
We going to war?


09-11-01 09:48:12 AM Stebain
Major important buildings are being evacuated... (Sears Tower etc....)

I'm a bit nervous, my wife works in the Headquarters building for the USAF



09-11-01 09:49:35 AM Thepostaftermeisgay
good god. i worked last summer at Martin Progressive in the WTC 2. kill now. kill quick.



09-11-01 09:49:45 AM Dr.Washuu
I just woke up to this, here, and all I have to say is that if this is some ass-backwards arabic terrorist crap, we aught to have nuked them back into the stone age in '91 in the first place, and we should definitely do it now. Those bastards aren't ever going to stop with this crap until they get (insert here:that stupid square mile of land in the desert they want, total religious domination), and, as we won't ever meet their expectations, we should just remove them entirely. They sound like children throwing a tantrum, and when the tantrum kills innocent people, the child needs a permanent spanking.

Yeah, so it's too early to be PC. Oh well.


09-11-01 09:49:57 AM Yawgmoth
holy shiat dood...i was not expecting that headline before walking out the door...shiat, I really don't feel like going to class now.
And when i get to work, I'm not gonna biatch at all. shiat....replay of the second crash. sucky as my life is at the moment, I'm really, really, happy to be here.
I'll never forget this moment.

09-11-01 09:59:56 AM AzraelBrown
A large chunk of the WTC just collapsed


09-11-01 09:59:58 AM Overlord
Massive explosion in Tower 2. -- CNN



09-11-01 10:00:05 AM PacMan
Holy shiat! One of the towers just collapsed live on NBC.



09-11-01 10:00:22 AM Obscene Pickle
I think the second tower may have fallen
09-11-01 10:00:46 AM Jaxomlotus
obscene - no it didn't
09-11-01 10:01:27 AM Jaxomlotus
oh my bad - it did



09-11-01 10:01:39 AM Mungo
Here in the UK we're getting transcripts through of people phoning from the tops of the WTCs. They're getting cooked up there.



09-11-01 10:01:41 AM EggYolkEnema
oh my farking god, the whole building collapsed!



09-11-01 10:01:51 AM NexR
Get war out of your heads people. There is no one country at fault for this. It one or more terrorist organizations united in a common effort. I'm not going to start beating the war drum. Who would we declare war on? Its a thousand people responsible at most.



09-11-01 10:02:14 AM Sgamer
something in the second tower just exploded....smoke EVERYWHERE...might be farking biological! :(



09-11-01 10:02:31 AM Patron
its crumbling
09-11-01 10:04:04 AM Henchman
The whole skyline is being obscured. You can barely make out anything below the fire on the remaining tower.



09-11-01 10:04:10 AM Blackvampyr
NexR - very true. However, in the heat of the moment we all say stupid stuff. For example - nukes are not the answer. the fallout from them that many people would want would affect the world. it'd punish everyone for something 1 group did. That's worse than the events of today.



09-11-01 10:06:08 AM FuzzyMonkey
Squinth- *big hug*

Dude this is so farked, i'm in midtown ny. insane.
Can't type, shaking.



09-11-01 10:06:10 AM Jaxomlotus
Arabs in palestine are dancing in the streets right now



09-11-01 10:08:14 AM Shugos
watching CNN/NBC

South Tower of World Trade Center just collapsed. CNN's calling it a third explosion. All Airports in US are CLOSED. People are jumping from the WTC tower. Treasury, White House, Capitol evacuated. People with automatic rifles are keeping civilians out of Lafayette park in washington.
09-11-01 10:10:38 AM Holyman887
my god... i'm at school right now, just by city hall in philadelphia. we're being called down for an assembly pretty soon. i'm thinking about getting away. PLEASE people, update this with the newest info, i'm relying on it. thanks.
09-11-01 10:13:09 AM Grumman
Fox reports Capitol hill explosion



09-11-01 10:13:48 AM Thepostaftermeisgay
i am in class at college right now...and this teacher is teaching how to make a graph in MS Excel. im th eonly one shaking and looking funny. god help us all.



09-11-01 10:14:49 AM Wallythecat
Why is anyone suprised? We can go off and bomb whoever we want but when someone has the nerve to attck us.... It's all out WAR! No one seems to mind that there hasn't been a war on american soil since the civil war, yet all the other wars in all the other countries just gets a shrug and is dismissed entirely.... Innocent people are killed all the time. It's just happening to us this time. Get over it...



09-11-01 10:15:39 AM Toxie
Stebain:
Only significance I can think of is that it's 9-1-1 day. But that's so silly it has to be a coincidence.

So what are you all doing for 9/11 this year?

One of the things that upsets me the most is all of the disabled people that were not able to use stairs and were left behind waiting at an elevator. To think those people had no choice but to 'wait out' their fate, instead of being able to do something, just pains my heart. Of course, all of it is painful but I believe that each and every victim is at peace.

Rbuzby
So what are you all doing for 9/11 this year?

If I could, I'd be riding a big-assed passenger jet, touring the airspace of as many big cities as possible, fist in the air in proud defiance.

As it is, I'll be at work, business as usual, which is probably the next best thing.

reading eceryone's experiences here has made me cry...

i was reading metafilter when i found out about the attacks. the person that posted the link said that the WTC was in chicago. i flew to the tv. i remember posting furiously on mefi anytime anything new was on the news.

when the pentagon was attacked i started pacing and crying and freaking out. i tried calling my dad. he lives right outside of dc, and he works for the government in maryland. since i have no idea what his schedule is like and what way he takes to work, i had no idea if he'd be alive or not.

i called my mom, and my grandparents to see if they'd heard anything from my dad. i left him 5 or 6 voicemail messages at his office. he finally called me back a few hours later and said that everyone in his building had been shut up in a room there to protect them, and he didn't even really know what was going on.

i didn't go to any classes that day, since i wasn't leaving my apartment until i had heard from my dad. none of the teachers cared that most of their students hadn't showed up that day.

it looked like what i imaged the end of the world looking like