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(Canada.com)   Desperate cancer patients are popping pills not approved by the FDA because they read in newspapers that trials in rats were successful   (canada.com) divider line 54
    More: Dumbass  
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826 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Mar 2007 at 3:08 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-16 11:26:21 AM
I can't wait until you get cancer submitter. When that happens, get back to me about how important FDA approval is.
 
2007-03-16 11:28:05 AM
Should have the Sad tag. It's heartbreaking when someone gets to that point of desperation that he/she is willing to try anything just to feel better.
 
2007-03-16 11:29:57 AM
Until you've dealt with losing someone to cancer, submitter, you might want to refrain from calling people desperate for some hope "dumbasses."

When the "approved" treatments, which already destroy you, don't work, people will try anything if it offers even a shred of hope. If you think that's stupid, here's hoping you never have to deal with it yourself.

Or maybe here's hoping that you do.
 
2007-03-16 11:33:35 AM
wtf, does the word "desperate" not accurately describe these people?
 
2007-03-16 11:36:19 AM
Was the img.fark.com tag for the patients or the FDA?

If it was for the cancer patients, eat a bag of dicks submitter...

If it was for the FDA, it pretty much tells the tale of the system
 
2007-03-16 11:36:28 AM
doublesecretprobation: wtf, does the word "desperate" not accurately describe these people?

No, it does. The "dumbass" part does not. Try having cancer and see what it feels like, then have the nerve to call someone a dumbass for trying something new as opposed to what they've been doing that's not working.
 
2007-03-16 11:39:30 AM
Chemotherapy side effects:

Hair loss

Nausea and vomiting

Diarrhea or constipation

Anemia

Malnutrition

Depression of the immune system, hence (potentially lethal) infections and sepsis

Hemorrhage

Secondary neoplasms

Cardiotoxicity

Hepatotoxicity

Nephrotoxicity

Ototoxicity

Death

But we don't call people stupid for going that route, do we, subby?
 
2007-03-16 11:42:44 AM
Mrs. Roethlisberger: ry having cancer and see what it feels like

ha, missed the tag. settle down beavis. i've lost a lot more of my family to cancer than i'd care to mention. so get off your high farking horse pal.
 
2007-03-16 11:43:33 AM
that dumbass tag better be for the fda. I've lost 3 close family members to cancer and belive me, you will try anything.
 
2007-03-16 11:44:47 AM
doublesecretprobation: ha, missed the tag. settle down beavis. i've lost a lot more of my family to cancer than i'd care to mention. so get off your high farking horse pal.

You asked, I explained. I'm not on a "high horse," bucko.
 
2007-03-16 11:48:49 AM
What have they got to lose?
 
2007-03-16 11:49:26 AM
Let's see wasting money on treatments that may actually shorten your life even further? Yep that's dumbass

/remember the Laetrile fad of the 70 and 80's? It killed more cancer patients than Chernobyl
 
2007-03-16 11:52:46 AM
I don't think DUMBASS is the correct tag here... maybe sad. The chief researcher decries the indiscrimate use of the drug, stating that even people with only six months to live have something to lose... dying quicker and in a worse way.

Rather than lingering with cancer. I don't know. The researchers are telling people to WAIT, when they don't have much time to wait. But frequently, the people taking the drug aren't doing it in a way that can help them.

I guess there's a fine line between hope and desperation.
 
2007-03-16 11:53:02 AM
Have they taken up ballroom dancing?
 
2007-03-16 12:09:38 PM
It's just a sad story all around. People may use too much DCA and harm themselves that way. People may act cautiously and use too little, losing the fight before clinical trials indicate an effective dosage. DCA might end up having absolutely no positive effects in humans.

Whatever the future holds, people are still dying. I fully understand their desire to try something new before the clock stops ticking.
 
2007-03-16 12:09:42 PM
I like this thread. It's: "People who have never actually had cancer anywhere in their lives up on a high horse of douchery" vs. "The rest of us"
 
2007-03-16 12:10:03 PM
"Dumbass?" What's the worst that could happen, subby - they die?
 
2007-03-16 12:18:08 PM
Right HLTG you just know that anyone who disagrees with might not have suffered an illness because you know each and every one of our personal medical histories.

/asshole
 
2007-03-16 12:19:11 PM
What? Dying patients might die if they take unapproved pills? Uh Oh
 
2007-03-16 12:21:00 PM
NuttierThanEver: Let's see wasting money on treatments that may actually shorten your life even further? Yep that's dumbass

Hmm. Let me look around a sec... Nope, I only see one asshole here. You let me know when you watch one of your best friends wither away and die at 27. Because I did, and you should shut the fark up.
 
2007-03-16 12:23:07 PM
Like I said HTLG the fact that you assume I've never experienced a personal loss due to cancer or that I've never been sick myself says a hell of alot more about you than me.
 
2007-03-16 12:24:42 PM
NuttierThanEver: Let's see wasting money on treatments that may actually shorten your life even further? Yep that's dumbass

Right, because the FDA is the only organization on the planet that can determine which drugs are beneficial to you.
 
2007-03-16 12:30:01 PM
And supporting charlatans only out to make a buck without regard to whom they hurt helps whom Arcadian? I'm not saying the FDA is perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than the quackery and snake oil salesmen that was going on before it was created.
 
2007-03-16 12:48:51 PM
NuttierThanEver: I'm not saying the FDA is perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than the quackery and snake oil salesmen that was going on before it was created.

Perhaps, but a lot of the drugs that could help sometimes need to wait years for FDA approval. These people usually don't have the time to wait.

And since a lot of the approved meds can also "shorten your life even further" when they don't work, yeah, I can see the desperation people can feel. When you have no hope, giving a charlatan money for hope may not be a whole lot better, but it sure as hell ain't a whole lot worse.

Besides, think of these as "human trials". ;)
 
2007-03-16 12:53:44 PM
think of these as "human trials". ;)

I thought that was what prisons were for.

/kidding
 
2007-03-16 01:03:24 PM
NuttierThanEver: And supporting charlatans only out to make a buck without regard to whom they hurt helps whom Arcadian? I'm not saying the FDA is perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than the quackery and snake oil salesmen that was going on before it was created.

While true, like most organizations that start with altruistic purposes, once they started getting power things got all farked up. Now what was once a legitimate org. is mired in politics and beurocracy, and the only people who really suffer are those that already are.
 
2007-03-16 02:00:51 PM
Ahh, yes. Medical ethics and the Dying. Almost always a fascinating subject.

And before anyone rags on me I'll point out a woman I was engaged to died a very slow and very painful death from cancer a little less than seven years ago. To this day I wonder what my life would have been like if she lived.

===========================

Maybe the FDA can/should set up some formal human trial programs using promising but unapproved drugs for the terminally ill.

If a person is terminally ill anyway and is fully aware of the risks involved in taking unapproved drugs, a lot of scientific progress could be quickly made.

One big problem though: To do things right you would need to do double blind tests with a control group taking placebos.

I can't speak for others, but if I was in the late stages of terminal cancer and could take part in a drug study, I would-- even knowing the pill I was taking might be a fake.

Just don't be stingy with the pot and/or morphine.
 
2007-03-16 02:13:50 PM
Pocket Ninja Until you've dealt with losing someone to cancer, submitter, you might want to refrain from calling people desperate for some hope "dumbasses."

Okay, but according to the evidence, can we at least call them rats?
 
2007-03-16 03:13:07 PM
SoiledDude: If it was for the cancer patients, eat a bag of dicks submitter...

for reals.

And the fact that the link says canada.com on it, I'm not even going to bother. Overregulation isn't the ONLY problem we've got in the US, but it's part of it. Last thing we need is MORE.
 
2007-03-16 03:13:51 PM
That's the most heartless tag use I've ever seen. +1
 
2007-03-16 03:23:43 PM
Blarrgh! Anecdotes and emotion are more important than evidence-based medicine! How dare you besmirch the memory of my relative/friend/loved one/generic puppet, you heartless subby!

If the FDA would only license rat poison for use in cancer treatment, I would still have my mommy! The only people who take advantage of the sick are the allopathic medical establishment and Big Pharma!

/sewiously
 
2007-03-16 03:33:57 PM
when i was diagnosed with non-hodgkin's lymphoma i decided to try everything remotely reasonable to fight it... everything.


what i learned along the way is that cancer is big business and doctors are often full of shiat and don't have many final, conclusive answers.


until, subby is in a similar situation, i suggest he/she refrain from using the DUMBASS tag.


/i got better
//6 years healthy
 
2007-03-16 03:35:02 PM
Why not? What's the pill gonna do, kill them a few weeks before the cancer would?
 
2007-03-16 03:58:48 PM
If I had terminal cancer, I think the last thing I'd be worrying about is the risk of side effects from an untested drug. OH NOES I might go blind! I might have kidney damage! I might have my hands and feet rot off!

These things are ALL preferable to death.

And if it doesn't cure me after all, none of those things matter anyway.
 
2007-03-16 04:06:39 PM
If I had terminal cancer, the last thing I'd be worrying about is an insufficiently sensitive Subby.
 
2007-03-16 04:11:13 PM
Dumbass is the submitter
Dumbass is the liter

Too sad for my amusement
 
2007-03-16 04:37:30 PM
Pocket Ninja


Until you've dealt with losing someone to cancer, submitter, you might want to refrain from calling people desperate for some hope "dumbasses."

When the "approved" treatments, which already destroy you, don't work, people will try anything if it offers even a shred of hope. If you think that's stupid, here's hoping you never have to deal with it yourself.

Or maybe here's hoping that you do.


So just because they're in pain anything is ok? Do you think it's right that cancer patients fly down to Mexico to pay some quack thousands of dollars for false hope? Yeah, sitting in a magic magnetic box is going to cure cancer, and for only 50,000 dollars. Just because they're desperate doesn't mean they should act foolishly.

When the doctor who did the study says it's a bad farking idea, don't you think you might be wrong?
 
2007-03-16 04:42:17 PM
Chemotherapy side effects:
Hair loss
Nausea and vomiting
Diarrhea or constipation
Anemia
Malnutrition
Depression of the immune system, hence (potentially lethal) infections and sepsis
Hemorrhage
Secondary neoplasms
Cardiotoxicity
Hepatotoxicity
Nephrotoxicity
Ototoxicity
=========


You forgot leukemia. Cancer sucks. The courts have already denied a dying woman marijuana, what the hell else is this supposedly 'moral' society going to keep doing to make having cancer even more of a living hell?

What? Submitter can burn in hell.
 
2007-03-16 04:46:05 PM
img.fark.com
 
2007-03-16 04:50:36 PM
What i learned along the way is that cancer is big business and doctors are often full of shiat and don't have many final, conclusive answers.
=======


Yup. I've said this many times. People in books have said this many times. We live in a capitalistic society. We make drugs ONLY if they bring in the money for the BUSINESS that is drugs manufacturers.
 
2007-03-16 04:54:21 PM
I'm failing to see how going from 'certainly going to die' to 'might not die' isn't a step up. If the doctors say 'You've got six months to live, enjoy it', I'd probably choose to enjoy it by traveling to exotic places and trying new things too.
 
2007-03-16 04:55:41 PM
14 months ago one of my very good friends died of cancer. It was the single worst event in many people's lives. Mine included. I'm telling you this because I want you to understand where I'm coming from when I say that submitter is correct in calling these people dumbasses. Now, I'm no expert of the FDA, but I'm sure there's a pretty good reason that drugs have to get approval before they can be given to people.

It's sad to watch a loved one dying. You want to do anything you can to help them. But stop for a second and think about the logical progression here. If people start taking anything they can get their hands on because they are desperate then that's going to do a lot of harm to innocent people, not to mention the medical industry.

At the same time though, fark the government. Their regulation is needed, but they have managed to royally screw up the medical community. The government is why medication and health care is so expensive.
 
2007-03-16 05:34:13 PM
Honest Bender, the problem is, drug approval is a mine field of bureaucracy and overcautiousness. And you need to be pretty damn cautious about giving drugs to the general population. But it DOES take WAY too much time, and yes, it is vitally important that you screen the drugs that will cause seizure and riotous vomitting alongside their intended effects, but the process for most drugs takes an entire decade, and that is completely unnecessary. The FDA is a bloated psuedo-corporation that really need to get the kinks out.

There is a reason why drugs must be approved, but approval takes way too long. Thing is, if you want to know a drug's effects in the long term, you need way more than even the 10 years a perfectly good drug might sit on the shelf before the FDA bothers with it. And no one will wait the 50 years that a human trial would take to see if the volunteers develop giant warts on their genitals or if they have a massively increased risk of heart attack. So the long wait is fairly pointless to see the long term effects, and is way too long to reasonably judge the short term effects.

Short bursts of real testing and analysis are separated by very long wait periods involving submitting forms, waiting for answers, and sitting on your ass. If the FDA simply "can't handle the volume", it may be time to increase the size of the FDA. Or maybe just its efficacy. From what we've all seen the last thing the FDA needs is an increase in size. It needs a massive overhaul.

Our understanding of biology and the ability of our chemistry to make serious impacts on the lives of millions of people is increasing exponentially, but every new advance, life-saving or penis-enlarging, is bottlenecked by an excessive wait period.

Now, these patients took these pills only after rat testing? I really wouldn't think that's quite enough time to judge if they're safe. But if I were dying of cancer, getting a stroke might be a lesser issue I'd want to deal with later. And I've heard things about DCA... it does sound like an incredible weapon against cancer.
 
2007-03-16 05:54:39 PM
Honest Bender: If people start taking anything they can get their hands on because they are desperate then that's going to do a lot of harm to innocent people, not to mention the medical industry.

Please explain how innocent people get hurt if they are already TERMINAL?

As in, there is NO HOPE.

If they want to take the drugs, no one is hurt at all by it.

It isn't like doctors are handing these pills out like candy to kids with boo-boos. These people are facing their imminent, unavoidable death. Let them do whatever they can for any hope they might be able to find from it...
 
2007-03-16 07:33:02 PM
Freudian Please explain how innocent people get hurt if they are already TERMINAL?

Sad to say the assholes you sell coffee enemas as a cure for leukemia don't care if you are terminal or if you could still be cured by normal therapies, they're more than happy to tell patients what they want to hear and then cash their checks before giving useless treatments and false hope. Secondly I don't know about you but when I die I don't want my family stuck with debt because I paid a ton of money to Dr. Nick Riviera in a futile attempt to save my life and my wife is stuck with 3 kids and a mortgage.
 
2007-03-16 07:51:35 PM
So has the submitter come in to defend their use of the dumbass tag or is he/she gonna be a coward.
 
2007-03-16 08:12:30 PM
When you are faced with your own mortality, subby, let's hope that noone calls you a 'Dumbass' for trying anything under the sun to stay alive. A funeral is tomorrow for a friend of mine. I've known him since childhood. He died two days ago from brain cancer. He was only 52. RIP Kevin Gibbons
 
2007-03-16 09:07:39 PM
Freudian_slipknot

Please explain how innocent people get hurt if they are already TERMINAL?

You do have a point there. But if we let terminal patients take experimental drugs that's essentially human experimentation. Would you be cool with that? It's a slippery slope. Once we let terminal patients submit for experimental drug studies, how about we let death row prisoners do the same? Or prisoners with life sentences? Or anyone who wants to volunteer? See what I'm getting at?
 
2007-03-16 11:08:58 PM
"Of course you have things to lose, because you can die earlier and in much worse shape"

How does one die in worse shape? Just wondering...
 
2007-03-16 11:27:34 PM


How does one die in worse shape? Just wondering...


Well you can die peacefully in a bed, or suffering horrible spasms that void your bowels BEFORE you die, along with making every inch of your body hurt.
 
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