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(Guardian)   Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admits to 9/11 strike, hoped to gain attention of Jodie Foster   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 312
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4209 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2007 at 12:31 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



312 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2007-03-14 09:58:20 PM  
Oh the things *I* would do for Jodie Foster's attention...

// Jodies is teh HAWT
 
2007-03-15 12:33:12 AM  
amits?
 
2007-03-15 12:34:37 AM  

Amit

\A*mit"\, v. t. [L. amittere, amissum, to lose; a (ab) + mittere to send. See Missile.] To lose. [Obs.]

A lodestone fired doth presently amit its proper virtue. --Sir T. Browne.


He is going to lose to the 9/11 strike?
 
2007-03-15 12:34:45 AM  
now, can we throw him on the bar b que pit?
 
2007-03-15 12:34:51 AM  
Yeah, I'm sure he just freely admitted it. Not coerced or anything. My government wouldn't lie to me, right?..
 
2007-03-15 12:35:21 AM  
so confessions obtained via torture are somehow valid now?

/nobody expects the spanish inquisition
 
2007-03-15 12:35:46 AM  
oh jebus, here we go...
 
2007-03-15 12:35:54 AM  
``I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z''

I do not understand there is no A or Z in dirka.
 
2007-03-15 12:37:02 AM  
Jodie Foster is most definately teh hawt... and TEH GHEY!
 
2007-03-15 12:37:31 AM  
Torture. It's the new way to ask honest questions for honest answers.
 
2007-03-15 12:38:21 AM  
CIA: Were you behind 9/11?
"terrorist": no.... *ZAP*
CIA: Were you behind 9/11?
"terrorist": i see what you did there...
 
2007-03-15 12:38:22 AM  
Seriously, fark needs a spellcheck function added onto the submission page.
 
2007-03-15 12:38:54 AM  
Just in case anyone was wondering:

Motives for instituting the Spanish Inquisition

Historians differ about Ferdinand and Isabella's motives for introducing the Inquisition into Spain. A number of possible reasons have been suggested:

1. To establish political and religious unity. The Inquisition allowed the monarchy to intervene actively in religious affairs, without the interference of the Pope. At the same time, Ferdinand and Isabella's objective was the creation of an efficient state machinery; thus one of their priorities was to achieve religious unity to promote more centralized political authority.

2. To weaken local political opposition to the Catholic monarchs. Strengthening centralized political authority also entailed weakening local political opposition. Resistance to the installation of the Inquisition in the Kingdom of Aragon, for example, was often couched in terms of local legal privileges (fueros).

3. To do away with the powerful converso minority. Many members of influential families such as the Santa Fes, the Santangels, the Caballerias and the Sanchezes, were prosecuted in the Kingdom of Aragon. However the King of Aragon, Ferdinand, continued to employ many conversos in his administration.

4. Profit. The property of people found guilty by the Inquisition was confiscated.


Human nature doesn't change.
 
2007-03-15 12:39:41 AM  
Torture is as American as apple pie and Red Rider BB guns.

9 out of 10 people being tortured recommend Dick Cheney...He is so sweet on the electrodes to the ball sack...
 
2007-03-15 12:40:23 AM  
Frak amidsn amit ot nto raesing haednils.
 
2007-03-15 12:41:14 AM  
Not bad, submitter. I went with:

"9/11 mastermind confesses plotting against Carter, Clinton. In turn, Ann Coulter proposes marriage."

But hey, what can ya do sometimes?
 
2007-03-15 12:41:14 AM  
"b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but Bin Laden"
 
2007-03-15 12:41:21 AM  
I don't know whether to believe it is true or not; but part of me wonders if he is taking one for the team.

It would do two things, make him out to be a hero for the extremists nuts and might also shield people who bear responsibility so they can carry out future acts of terrorism.
 
2007-03-15 12:41:29 AM  
another repeat thread/article



wtf fark
 
2007-03-15 12:42:05 AM  
If you farking beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it farking so!
 
2007-03-15 12:42:53 AM  
Waaaaaait a second...

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed != Osama Bin Laden.

So we invaded that country for the wrong reason, too?

0 for 2 this millenium. Not a good start, guys.
 
2007-03-15 12:43:02 AM  
FTA:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, confessed to that attack and a string of others during a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to a transcript released Wednesday by the Pentagon.

Well if the Pentagon says it's true, it must be.

Not that I'm defending the guy, but our government has been known to lie on occasion. This smells more like a "Hey, let's get the attention off the recent problems with the federal attorney's".
 
2007-03-15 12:43:03 AM  
oukewldave: Yeah, I'm sure he just freely admitted it. Not coerced or anything. My government wouldn't lie to me, right?..

Now herein lies the problem of using torture. You're creating a martyr and reasonable doubt. People will say anything to get the torture to stop. Interrogators often, unknowingly, feed the person the very information they want to hear.

The worst part is that while I want to believe this is the moron behind 9/11, I'll never be able to be sure. Why? Do I really think water-boarding is that bad? Yes. We tried the Japanese for it after WWII (as a war crime).

My, how times change. We used to be a moral compass. Sure, individual units / soldiers committed atrocities. If they were caught, they were generally punished for it too. Nowadays, we're just another thug in the muck.
 
2007-03-15 12:44:24 AM  
That was strange. I always mix up Sheikh Mohammed with Mohammed Ali.
 
2007-03-15 12:44:31 AM  
We really should have court-martialed the guy. In these kangaroo Guantanamo tribunals, we look no more credible to the world than some half-assed banana republic.
 
2007-03-15 12:44:35 AM  
It's probably true. But I am a little resentful that my current government has made me so jaded by their lies and distortions that I can't take anything they say as true without large reservations and doubt.
 
2007-03-15 12:45:17 AM  
>>"9/11 mastermind confesses plotting against Carter, Clinton. In turn, Ann Coulter proposes marriage."

Yours was better. Next time, try misspelling a word. Apparently, that's all it takes to get greenlit on FARK.
 
2007-03-15 12:45:35 AM  
You know what, I really want to believe that this is true. However I can't in face of the torture scandals and the fact that we have absolutely no idea what goes on when these guys are in military custody.

It actually makes me kind of pissed off because instead of being able to think, "Well I'm glad they got him" I have to wonder, "Wait, did they really get the right guy or did they just torture his ass until he said it was him?"

How shiatty is that?

Personally, I don't give a shiat about feeling good - I want the people responsible for 9/11 to all either be dead or in prison, along with the people who supported and finaced them. If the government says they got one of these guys, I want them to... well you know, really get him. I don't want to them to just say they did because while if I take them at face value I might feel good about it, the fact of the matter is if they didn't really get one of these guys, then justice has not been served.

Is that too complicated for Fark?
 
2007-03-15 12:45:45 AM  
I work as an inquisitor and I am getting a kick out of these posts.

/I think that they should wax his chest, that'll make him talk
 
2007-03-15 12:45:51 AM  
This smells more like a "Hey, let's get the attention off the recent problems with the federal attorney's".

You've got a lot to learn if you think the Pentagon gives a rat's ass about federal attorneys.

/attorneys, not attourney's btw
 
2007-03-15 12:45:57 AM  
I thought OBL was the mastermind behind 911?


//Our government coudnt find its head up its own ass if clinton was back in charge
 
2007-03-15 12:46:12 AM  
Whatthefark
Not that I'm defending the guy, but our government has been known to lie on occasion. This smells more like a "Hey, let's get the attention off the recent problems with the federal attorney's".

Yeah, they farked up catching Osama, so now they're pegging this guy when it's convenient.

Why not get the guy to admit to the JFK assassination while they're at it?
 
2007-03-15 12:46:45 AM  
I will not believe a damn word that comes out of this kangaroo-court Combat Status Review Tribunals. This is complete garbage and unfortunately a lot of people are going to buy it.
 
2007-03-15 12:47:31 AM  
Damn, if only the ACLU had gotten him his Miranda rights sooner then this information would have never been available to help George Bush.......
 
2007-03-15 12:47:56 AM  
Dear Jerk: That was strange. I always mix up Sheikh Mohammed with Mohammed Ali.

www.science.uva.nl

Approves.
 
2007-03-15 12:48:01 AM  
Whatthefark: Not that I'm defending the guy, but our government has been known to lie on occasion. This smells more like a "Hey, let's get the attention off the recent problems with the federal attorney's".

You claim you are 'not defending the guy', yet readily engage in sleazy equivocation and misdirection on his behalf?
 
2007-03-15 12:48:39 AM  
Never enough masterminds for 9/11.

/wake me up when it's over
 
2007-03-15 12:49:35 AM  
MrToast: Next time, try misspelling a word. Apparently, that's all it takes to get greenlit on FARK.

Its a disturbing trend, I agree :)
 
2007-03-15 12:50:40 AM  
I love it, the same people with 20/20 hindsight on Iraq and WMD are refusing to accept the plausibility that KSM was responsible for 9/11.

On the one hand, our government was "completely wrong" with regards to Iraq, b-b-b-b-b-but on the other, OBL is incontrovertibly responsible for 9/11.

You people can't even keep up with your own BS.
 
2007-03-15 12:51:59 AM  
after this long, i'm not even sure i believe him.

if i were in his shoes, i'd confess to nailing jesus to the cross if would put me out of my misery. f the afterlife.
 
2007-03-15 12:52:17 AM  
Damn, if only the ACLU had gotten him his Miranda rights sooner then this information would have never been available to help George Bush

Translation:

Damn, if only the ACLU had gotten him his Miranda rights sooner then this information would have never been available to help the United States

Please proceed to the nearest exit.
 
2007-03-15 12:52:25 AM  
Oh god no i hope they didnt torture him.....

I mean our sanctioned torture techniques include putting underwear on peoples heads.....

I could never stand it if my country hurt our enemies, I would rather sacrifice my entire culture and my freedom in a bizarre self destructive altruistic impulse....

Luckily for us evil conservatives, the liberals will be the first ones executed by our new Islamic Overlords.
 
2007-03-15 12:52:46 AM  
If there was any doubts of the legitimacy of the Iraq Invasion, I think we can finally put them to rest now.

/suck it libs
 
2007-03-15 12:52:48 AM  
linkolnkatz: part of me wonders if he is taking one for the team

He probably is. Qaedans are true-believing insurgents, fighting by any means necessary from martyrdom to lying. Just because they've been captured doesn't mean they've stopped fighting.
 
2007-03-15 12:53:42 AM  
Detroit_Bob:
You claim you are 'not defending the guy', yet readily engage in sleazy equivocation and misdirection on his behalf?

I don't think those words mean what you think they do.

Fact: The administration has lied occasionally to the public.
Fact: This could cause some people to be skeptic concerning unverifably information that the administration presents.

I mean a confession is all good and everything I suppose, but evidence you know... that would be awesome. If he's talking about admitting to it then he ought to be able to give collaberating evidence that shows how he did it.

Right?

P.S. I think you're insane. Or very stupid. I can't decide.
 
2007-03-15 12:54:26 AM  
I like pie
 
2007-03-15 12:54:40 AM  
*were*
 
2007-03-15 12:56:04 AM  
I like how everyone else seems to be thinking the same thing. You know, about the torture thing. It makes me feel confident about this country's future.

So, when the second great American civil war breaks out...whose side will you be on?
 
2007-03-15 12:56:18 AM  
If I had had electrodes shoved up my ass for the last 4 years, I'd confess to 9/11, the Great Chicago Fire, the Boston Tea Party, and Pompeii.
 
2007-03-15 12:56:25 AM  
cthu1hu:

the Iraq invasion was a mistake..

/not a lib
// likes Reagan and Bush sr.
 
EJ
2007-03-15 12:56:36 AM  
Now who's going to work on 9/11?
 
2007-03-15 12:57:11 AM  
Mateyush :

you caused the Chicago fire? are you a cow?
 
2007-03-15 12:58:12 AM  
archichris: Oh god no i hope they didnt torture him.....

As if they wouldn't? He admitted to every act under the sun- including the attack of Bushies daddy.
 
2007-03-15 12:59:26 AM  
Mateyush

If I had had electrodes shoved up my ass for the last 4 years, I'd confess to 9/11, the Great Chicago Fire, the Boston Tea Party, and Pompeii.

If I was being relentlessly hunted by Navy SEALS and the CIA, I'd probably admit to 9/11, the Great Chicago Fire, the Boston Tea Party, and Pompeii.

= your argument if/when OBL is caught
 
2007-03-15 12:59:40 AM  
I remember seeing those few British citizens in prison in Saudi Arabia confessing to all sorts of things on camera. Beat the crap out of anyone long enough, they'll confess to being their own grandparent.
 
2007-03-15 01:00:28 AM  
rppp01a:

As if they wouldn't? He admitted to every act under the sun- including the attack of Bushies daddy.


what about that requires the conclusion that there was torture?
 
2007-03-15 01:00:38 AM  
If you beat someone long enough........
 
2007-03-15 01:00:48 AM  
Pissing Coon

`I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z'

I do not understand there is no A or Z in dirka.



heh. I guess he should have said:

"I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from Alif to Zin (or Yeh)."

/studying Arabic
//look up the Arabic alphabet, then hopefully it will be teh funnay.
 
2007-03-15 01:00:51 AM  
archichris: Oh god no i hope they didnt torture him.....

Pretty much assured we did.

I mean our sanctioned torture techniques include putting underwear on peoples heads.....

Not to mention sleep deprivation and also water-boarding. We tried the Japanese who did the latter to Americans in the II.

I could never stand it if my country hurt our enemies, I would rather sacrifice my entire culture and my freedom in a bizarre self destructive altruistic impulse....

You know, at one time we thoroughly believed that our principles alone would give us victory. We believed that we would unite under those principles and fight the good fight. Now we act like just another thug in the muck.

Luckily for us evil conservatives, the liberals will be the first ones executed by our new Islamic Overlords.

Actually they'd probably kill all the bible-thumpers first. Christian-Crusaderists are the ones they typically demonize as their enemy. Of course they might change their mind about that, liberals are more dangerous right now because they believe in the rule of Law not God.

Let's not kid ourselves: Troll -1 for you.
 
2007-03-15 01:00:55 AM  
Unassuming Local: So, when the second great American civil war breaks out...whose side will you be on?

My own.
 
2007-03-15 01:00:56 AM  
It appears unclear whether he provided true information because 1) there's apparently little chance for the transparency of a public trial to test it and 2) because whatever the gov't has chosen to release was apparently gained from him with extreme methods over many years. It's bad there are terrorists. It's therefore unhelpful to aid their cause by making their guilt or innocence unclear. Public trials please, and the sooner, the better.
 
2007-03-15 01:01:56 AM  
Did you read that part at the end where he also claimed to be the Green River Killer? And to have come up with the idea for American Idol?
 
2007-03-15 01:02:32 AM  
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed : Osama Bin Ladin :: Scooter Libby : Dick Cheney
 
2007-03-15 01:02:41 AM  
Unassuming Local:
So, when the second great American civil war breaks out...whose side will you be on?

img339.imageshack.us
 
2007-03-15 01:03:02 AM  
Its pretty sad when the Bush Administration has lost so much credibility and is so ingrained into falsehood and unethical behavior at every higher level than when they actually do something right and bring someone to a trial (even if its a kangaroo trial) many people can't believe what is said there. We've come to expect so damn much lying that we're completely oblivious to the possibility of truth. Yet another victory for Al-Qaeda, I'm sad to say. And yes, its Mr. Bush's fault. No one but the real crackpot wackos during Clinton's time doubted the guilt of Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadzic. No one but crackpots doubted Timothy McVeigh's guilt either. Yet Mr. Bush has managed to insert doubts in the general public's mind about genocidal conspirators like Khalid Sheik Mohammad. Its not just on Fark. That's sad beyond belief.
 
2007-03-15 01:03:33 AM  
I guess Kahlid could only take 2 years of car batteries being attached to his scrotum before he cracked.
 
2007-03-15 01:04:32 AM  
TwistedFark

fallout reference. nice.
 
2007-03-15 01:05:49 AM  
>>many people can't believe what is said there.

Or just don't want to.
 
2007-03-15 01:06:12 AM  
Kahlid means "I blow goats" in Arabic
 
2007-03-15 01:06:37 AM  
wow..

it was a good picture.

I promise
 
2007-03-15 01:06:39 AM  
TwistedFark: P.S. I think you're insane. Or very stupid. I can't decide.

Neither can the rest of us :) When you whine in another thread that very same night about your boys getting caught perpetrating systemic Presidential election fraud in New Hampshire in 2004, its time to throw in the towel.
 
2007-03-15 01:06:50 AM  
Maybe be is guilty, maybe he isn't. But that is the whole point behind having a judicial system that is open and transparent. When you have kangaroo courts like Guantanamo, where defendants cannot defend themselves or see evidence...or worse yet are simply tortured, or have all of their statements cherry picked by the government....than the entire thing becomes a pointless charade that the public can't get behind.

The only people that are going to get behind this garbage are Bush loyalists, and the moron talk shows who will talk about this guy instead of Gonzalez. And that is really the entire point behind anything Bush ever does...it is only about damage control and politics. It has never been about anything else.
 
2007-03-15 01:07:15 AM  
Somacandra

he reaps what he sows, I guess.
 
2007-03-15 01:08:09 AM  
iKill

the same people with 20/20 hindsight on Iraq and WMD are refusing to accept the plausibility that KSM was responsible for 9/11.

Well to be honest, the confession of a guy who hasn't seen daylight for years in a place notorious for torture doesn't exactly ring of truth. At this point he may well have done it, but extracting a confession with torture more or less invalidates any of the evidence the prosecution would have had in court.
 
2007-03-15 01:08:39 AM  
TwistedFark:
I mean a confession is all good and everything I suppose, but evidence you know... that would be awesome. If he's talking about admitting to it then he ought to be able to give collaberating evidence that shows how he did it.

RTFA:
The transcripts also lay out evidence against Mohammed, saying that a computer seized during his capture included detailed information about the Sept. 11 plot - ranging from names and photos of the hijackers to photos of hijacker Mohammad Atta's pilot's license and even letters from al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.


But zomg! MOAR LIES!1111

You guys have a Wahabi-like zeal when it comes to attacking anything that might possibly be considered 'good' (or even 'not bad') for the United States.
 
2007-03-15 01:09:52 AM  
Unassuming Local: So, when the second great American civil war breaks out...whose side will you be on?

Well there'll probably be the United States of America and the Christian States of America.

The USA can have a chunk of the Eastern Seaboard and many of the upper Midwest states. It might even merge into Canada and tell the Quebecois to shut the f**k up. The CSA can have the Southern States, ND, SD, et al. California, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Oregon, and Washington would probably go it alone or in a group(s) together (the Western States of America?).

Personally I'd aim anywhere but the CSA. I'm willing to hope it'd be bloodless too. Take all the fundies and shove them in the same place hopefully and let them believe in their myopic view of creation (how long is a day to god?), and they'll either die of disease or just be outcompeted by foreign countries. Heck they'll probably do a good job killing each other over doctrinal differences. The USA and WSA would probably have to put up fences to keep out starving CSA citizens because their backwards a$$ country constantly tries to limit scientific progress.

Therein there will be no second civil war because Conservative Christians know they'd be f**ked if they left or took over completely (at least the clergy / upper echelons know).
 
2007-03-15 01:10:17 AM  
Detroit_Bob: You claim you are 'not defending the guy', yet readily engage in sleazy equivocation and misdirection on his behalf?

Good point. Why even have an open process where we hear all the facts...let's just sic dogs on anyone we suspect is a terrorist.

By the way, I think you are a terrorist.

/get him, Cujo!
 
2007-03-15 01:10:38 AM  
Not trying to advocate torture or anything, but anyone with a brain that has researched Al Qaeda knew this a looooong time ago.
 
2007-03-15 01:11:35 AM  
submitter: hoped to gain attention of Jodie Foster

You should have stolen her daughter.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2007-03-15 01:11:37 AM  
Detroit_Bob: You guys have a Wahabi-like zeal when it comes to attacking anything that might possibly be considered 'good' (or even 'not bad') for the United States.

And you have a Stepford Wife like zeal for defending your abuser.
 
SGF
2007-03-15 01:12:01 AM  
Jodie Foster is so hot, I'd hold the turkey baster for her.

Hell, I'd be the turkey baster

Moe- Who?

9-what?

Dude, where's your tattoo?

Why come you don't got one of these?

My tagline was better
 
2007-03-15 01:12:34 AM  
vroomazoom: the Iraq invasion was a mistake..

/not a lib
// likes Reagan and Bush sr.


I have to admit that while I disliked both at least I could respect Bush Sr. for doing the necessary thing and cleaning up Reagan's mess. Fine thing we did too: tossing him out of office for doing the right thing. Meh.
 
2007-03-15 01:13:33 AM  
Somacandra: Yet Mr. Bush has managed to insert doubts in the general public's mind...

Heh, a handful of angry toolbags on Fark is hardly 'general public'.

You guys should try leaving the echo-chamber of select internet sites every now and again, and have a look at the real world...
 
2007-03-15 01:14:03 AM  
Aren't the bozos supporting this crap afraid at all of the chance that they'll be the next terrorist, confessing to all sorts of horrible things? If you think it can't happen, then you're making it all the more possible that such abuses will be inflicted on US citizens by the US government.

Despotism and tyranny is not something abnormal, it is in fact the human norm; it is democracy and human rights which is the abnormal state (given human history). If we don't work ceaselessly to keep it from happening here, it will happen here. If you don't defend basic human rights all the time, you then lose them. You can't have an apartheid system of justice and expect it to work.
 
2007-03-15 01:14:06 AM  
img139.imageshack.us
 
2007-03-15 01:15:47 AM  
vroomazoom: how was this a kangaroo trial?

Its a kangaroo trial because it fails pretty much every recognized international standard for a fair hearing. No public witness, defense lawyers not allowed to see all the same evidence prosecutors can, the ad hoc and hastily written nature of the tribunal rules, etc. --hell, even the U.S. Navy's Judge Advocate General at the time, Retired Rear Admiral Donald Guter, called bullshiat on the tribunal system.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5521926

People who are/were assigned the duty of defending Guantanamo detainees, like Charles Swift, are asked to resign if they do *too good* a job.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7422513

Waht could possibly legitimate such a sham of a legal process? Court-martials already have safeguards in place to handle national security evidence and the UCMJ is already recognized internationally as an adequate legal standard for administering the laws of war.
 
2007-03-15 01:16:09 AM  
Wait, I'm confused.

I thought OBL was responsible for 9/11? It was this guy?

So what did OBL do?
 
2007-03-15 01:17:48 AM  
Detroit_Bob: You guys should try leaving the echo-chamber of select internet sites every now and again, and have a look at the real world...

As you selectively cut out the already-supplied relevant answer to your point via editing, thanks for proving my point. Perhaps you should apply for a job in the Bush Administration?
 
2007-03-15 01:18:58 AM  
I was going to say that I was wondering if his confession was "helped along", but I see that many have already beaten me to it!
 
2007-03-15 01:19:54 AM  
Detroit_Bob: Heh, a handful of angry toolbags on Fark is hardly 'general public'.

You guys should try leaving the echo-chamber of select internet sites every now and again, and have a look at the real world...


Real world that overwhelmingly voted for the president's party just a few months ago? I guess you are right.
 
2007-03-15 01:20:09 AM  
has anyone mentioned jodie fosters hotness yet?
 
2007-03-15 01:20:28 AM  
inglixthemad: I have to admit that while I disliked both at least I could respect Bush Sr. for doing the necessary thing and cleaning up Reagan's mess.

You know it's bad when you long for the days of pappy Bush.
 
2007-03-15 01:20:51 AM  
ElRonHubbardsBalls: And you have a Stepford Wife like zeal for defending your abuser.

I call it "Battered Dittoheads Syndrome," myself.
 
2007-03-15 01:21:30 AM  
So all this time after 9/11, how many legitimate convictions has Bush gained? I can't think of one.
 
2007-03-15 01:22:15 AM  
iKill You know, if I got my hands on you, after less than a week in my control you'd sign a confession sending your mother to the gas chamber. And you'd believe she did it, too, whatever it was I wanted you to believe.

Do you always trust what any government tells you, or only the Republican administrations?
 
2007-03-15 01:23:33 AM  
Wait, I thought that Conrad Black dude was behind 9/11. Who's this guy?
 
2007-03-15 01:23:47 AM  
Jodie is a lipstick lesbian so.... he won't be getting her attention.
 
2007-03-15 01:25:04 AM  
cthu1hu: You know it's bad when you long for the days of pappy Bush.

I was not a fan at the time of the elder Mr. Bush, but I like the way he handled the railway strike, and he realized that someone had to pay for the excesses of his own former boss. He was also extremely intelligent and had good working relationships with all important state leaders. Its true he accused Saddam Hussein of doing in Kuwait pretty much what the U.S. had just done in Panama a few months before, but these days I'd be more than happy with just that.
 
2007-03-15 01:25:10 AM  
Manfred Richthofen
I thought OBL was responsible for 9/11? It was this guy?

So what did OBL do?


shhhhh!! you're gonna ruin it!!!!
 
2007-03-15 01:25:17 AM  
He should be executed post-haste for what we know he did, not what he claims to have done.
 
2007-03-15 01:26:17 AM  
Yes every confession is coerced and any evidence is irrelevant.
 
2007-03-15 01:26:29 AM  
candidus

Well spoken.

TwistedFark

Couldn't catch it :-/

inglixthemad

This might interest you.
 
2007-03-15 01:27:03 AM  
cthu1hu: You know it's bad when you long for the days of pappy Bush.

See, there is a difference though. I couldn't respect Clinton. I never respected the supreme liar Reagan. I had a hard time respecting Bush Sr. at first, because he supported Reagan. Then again, you had to respect Bush Sr. for trying to be forthright about how things were and for the first Iraq war. Now there was a man, Bush Sr., who respected his general's military opinion. Heck he even listened to the man's political opinion in regards to the Arabic forces involved! Dubya? He's just a two-bit wanna-be. His daddy has more sense in his pinky than Dubya's got in all his body.

Bush Sr. may not have been the best president, but at least he was practical.
 
2007-03-15 01:27:15 AM  
Also, KSM was probably the only funny impression horatio sanz performed on SNL
 
2007-03-15 01:27:23 AM  
the bastard probably would've admitted to assassinating JFK and Lincoln if it they tortured him enough.

/give the bastard life in prison
//if you want to see real tools get an account on gop.com
 
2007-03-15 01:27:46 AM  
steamingpile: Yes every confession is coerced and any evidence is irrelevant.

How do we know if it wasn't in this instance?
 
2007-03-15 01:29:39 AM  
Party Boy: has anyone mentioned jodie fosters hotness yet?

I was all set to refute that claim with a GIS and a reference to Austin Powers, but I'll be damned if she isn't hot in every pic. NSFW?
 
2007-03-15 01:29:45 AM  
Somacandra: Its true he accused Saddam Hussein of doing in Kuwait pretty much what the U.S. had just done in Panama a few months before, but these days I'd be more than happy with just that.

He puked directly onto the Japanese PM when he could have turned around to do it on the floor. Probably some leftover feelings from WWII kicking in at the moment.
 
2007-03-15 01:31:13 AM  
Bush Sr. may not have been the best president...

Bush Sr only looks good through obscurity. He was just better at controlling his public image than his idiot son and there was far less scrutiny back then than there is now.
 
2007-03-15 01:32:35 AM  
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ran the largest girl scout cookie production center in Pakistan until the evil Bush and Pentagon plucked him off the street and used him to fabricate the lie that there are Islamic fundamentalists that want to do us harm.

Please ignore the fact that he was indicted in 1996 by the US District court in NY for his role the 1993 WTC bombings - well before most people had even heard of G.W. Bush. and well before the Pentagon had its mitts on him.

Please ignore the fact that he and his cohorts believe their actions are God-approved and confessions need not be arrived at via torture. This is the same guy who abducted Daniel Pearl, sawed his head off, and used it for a recruiting video.

This guy was involved with the Bali bombings and the plot to blow up the Library Tower (US Bank building) in Los Angeles, the tallest building West of Chicago.

He's been vermin for years, to Presidents of both parties, but please keep suggesting he's a victim of GITMO or a political distraction.
 
2007-03-15 01:32:38 AM  
steamingpile: Yes every confession is coerced and any evidence is irrelevant.

Now that we've fallen in the muck: prove that it wasn't coerced and therein irrelevant. You can't now. Before you could at least hold our honor up as armor. Now? Meh.
 
2007-03-15 01:33:20 AM  
Befuddled: So all this time after 9/11, how many legitimate convictions has Bush gained? I can't think of one.

As of 2005, about 39. Almost all for mundane violations of immigration law, false statements, or money laundering--not directly terror-related:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/11/AR200506110038 1_pf.html

The highest profile cases have been riddled with accusations of prosecutorial misconduct--the Justice Dept. has removed its own attorneys from cases more than once, most famously in some recent Detroit cases:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040216-121921-6396r.htm

Even Jose Padilla's charges have reduced to little more than chicken fodder, if memory serves. Evaluators has said Padilla's confinement has pretty much led him to be incompetent to stand trial.
 
2007-03-15 01:34:09 AM  
sirjonnyinla: He's been vermin for years, to Presidents of both parties, but please keep suggesting he's a victim of GITMO or a political distraction.

What you said might be valid, but still does not prove or disprove that he was or was not "coerced" in this particular instance.

That's the fallout with the practice of coercion. Confessions lose credibility.
 
2007-03-15 01:35:03 AM  
Only ONE pic of Jodie Foster? Man, what a waste of time it was visiting this thread....
 
2007-03-15 01:35:48 AM  
"Someone, who honestly thinks
the other 95% of us suffer
from some form of mass
DELUSION!"
img81.imageshack.us
 
2007-03-15 01:35:51 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: He puked directly onto the Japanese PM when he could have turned around to do it on the floor

I..I...I'm speechless. I can't believe you brought that up. I think I may need one of those "Welcome to Fark" signs as a reminder of where I am... :)
 
2007-03-15 01:36:44 AM  
So how many here are saying that how we got this guy to confess doesn't matter yet condemned the guy who lied about his credentials with regard to his being a ballistic forensic expert in a story about a week ago?

Once something on the prosecution's case becomes suspect, all of the prosecution's case becomes suspect.
 
2007-03-15 01:36:56 AM  
cthu1hu: I was all set to refute that claim with a GIS and a reference to Austin Powers, but I'll be damned if she isn't hot in every pic.

I like how she plays lots of smart roles. its more attractive
 
2007-03-15 01:36:58 AM  
Detroit_Bob: You guys should try leaving the echo-chamber of select internet sites every now and again, and have a look at the real world...

If it's true you have examples of better arguments from the "real world", then go ahead and make them. So far, it appears you've only bothered to insult people. Once you provide some good arguments, we can make progress.
 
2007-03-15 01:37:29 AM  
Sure, uh-huh.
 
2007-03-15 01:38:34 AM  
Nobody expects the Guantanamo inquisition.

Their chief weapon is fear. Fear and suprise. Suprise and fear. TWO! Their TWO chief weapons are fear and surprise and a fanatical devotion to the War on Terror.......

etc.
 
2007-03-15 01:38:37 AM  
Befuddled: So all this time after 9/11, how many legitimate convictions has Bush gained? I can't think of one.

Somacandra: As of 2005, about 39...

Does that include convictions by Judge Predator and Judge Spectre?
 
2007-03-15 01:38:45 AM  
those pics are too young for me. i like the older foster.
 
2007-03-15 01:39:20 AM  
And Moussaaoui, who was arrested for something else, admitted under duress to being hijacker #20.

Yupper.

So, who still believes in the Bush Administration and their Justice Department (Cabinet Level) relevance?

NOT ME!
 
2007-03-15 01:39:32 AM  
Somacandra: I..I...I'm speechless. I can't believe you brought that up. I think I may need one of those "Welcome to Fark" signs as a reminder of where I am... :)

Ha ha, I thought it was hilarious when it happened. I don't really hold it against Bush Sr. ;)
 
2007-03-15 01:41:05 AM  
sirjonnyinla: He's been vermin for years, to Presidents of both parties, but please keep suggesting he's a victim of GITMO or a political distraction.

No one I see here is claiming he's anything other than a vermin slimeball. In fact, that's exactly why I think many are pissed--the Bush Administration has shortcircuited this country's need for the long arm of genuine justice by lowering itself to the level of Lynndie England. They're inhibiting justice, not facilitating it.
 
2007-03-15 01:41:40 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: He puked directly onto the Japanese PM when he could have turned around to do it on the floor.

That's the Bush's for you, using everyone as their personal dishrag.

i17.tinypic.com
 
2007-03-15 01:42:54 AM  
I love Fark.

"I don't believe he did it because he said he did it."
 
2007-03-15 01:43:08 AM  
``I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z,'' Mohammed said in a statement that was read during the session, which was held last Saturday.

I wonder if he loved Big Brother....?
 
2007-03-15 01:43:23 AM  
sirjonnyinla: He's been vermin for years, to Presidents of both parties, but please keep suggesting he's a victim of GITMO or a political distraction.

You really don't get it do you? I fear for this country.

I want to believe it. Don't you get it? The problem is that we'll never know what's true now. Bush Jr. has tainted what was truth with torture. Regardless of what Fox News fed you: We tried Japanese who water-boarded our boys in the II.

The problem is now, the "decider" has mucked things up so badly that it taints the very honor of this country, much less the taint to the process itself. There are some things that shouldn't be done. Being an American has it's perks, but it has it's dangers too. To be a beacon is to be a target. You can't shield yourself immorally and still be a beacon. Guess what? Being an American, and therein a beacon, may get your a$$ killed. Price of being free from a country that shows the benefits of being so. Freedom is the answer to a question you don't have to ask.

You're not going to win the war against terrorism with bullets, bombs, and torture. You're going to win it by seizing the hearts and minds by showing America the unafraid (not America the bully). You're going to win by showing America the free (not America the Police State). The U.S.S.R. collapsed because people wanted to be like us in terms of freedom. The freedom to travel, to buy, to live one's life as one wants to. Perhaps the "decider" should have thought of that...
 
2007-03-15 01:43:31 AM  
candidus: Does that include convictions by Judge Predator and Judge Spectre?

Even better...

991.com

Awww, Yeah, baby!
 
2007-03-15 01:44:12 AM  
Weaver95: I wonder if he loved Big Brother....?

I dont care who you are, thats funny.
 
2007-03-15 01:44:13 AM  
log_jammin: I love Fark.

"I don't believe he did it because he said he did it."


The gist of it is, "I wish our administration didn't practice torture so we can be sure it's truth," but you can twist it around as much as you like.
 
2007-03-15 01:45:18 AM  
Somacandra: No one I see here is claiming he's anything other than a vermin slimeball.

Of course you are! By intimating or outright claiming that he was tortured into giving the confession, you take the blame from his shoulders.
 
2007-03-15 01:45:50 AM  
Detroit_Bob: Of course you are! By intimating or outright claiming that he was tortured into giving the confession, you take the blame from his shoulders.

You gotta be kidding me.
 
2007-03-15 01:45:56 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: Ha ha, I thought it was hilarious when it happened. I don't really hold it against Bush Sr. ;)

Yeah. When Dana Carbey reprised it on SNL I laughed heartily. But I was genuinely worried about a President Quayle for a few minutes there. :)
 
2007-03-15 01:46:01 AM  
Someone say something about
Religious tolerance?
img99.imageshack.us
 
2007-03-15 01:46:25 AM  
Party Boy: those pics are too young for me. i like the older foster.

Something about grass on the playing field.

/hot in Contact
//lives just outside FT Polk (paradise?)
 
2007-03-15 01:46:27 AM  
Weaver95: I wonder if he loved Big Brother....?

Oh man, that's just classic. I wonder how many other farkers will get it.
 
2007-03-15 01:48:22 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: The gist of it is...

That might be your gist of it, and I respect that, but you're not the only one here.
 
2007-03-15 01:48:30 AM  
cthu1hu
yep, grass on the playing field. And totally hot as a scientist in contact
 
2007-03-15 01:48:39 AM  
I ask again, what did OBL do in connection with 9/11 if KSM was responsible A to Z?

/genuinely curious
 
2007-03-15 01:50:03 AM  
log_jammin: That might be your gist of it, and I respect that, but you're not the only one here.

Please do not judge a group of people based on few extremists.

Some are not very good in expressing themselves. . .
 
2007-03-15 01:50:17 AM  
Detroit_Bob: You guys should try leaving the echo-chamber of select internet sites every now and again, and have a look at the real world...



Come on, Bob. Get specific. What "select internet sites" are you talking about? You honestly think it's just "a handful of angry toolbags on Fark" who are having doubts about Bush?

You really do live in an alternate reality, don't you?
 
2007-03-15 01:50:30 AM  
I dont care who you are, thats funny.

This guy was bounced around God only knows how many prisons, subjected to who knows what sort of interrogation techniques and then given a trial in front of a military court and limited means to defend himself.

I read about what some of these guys are put thru during their incarceration and I can't help but think of the novel 1984. And that's not even considering things like the MKULTRA program.
 
2007-03-15 01:50:38 AM  
Detroit_Bob: By intimating or outright claiming that he was tortured into giving the confession

Fine, here's your "Troll Award" :

www.msu.edu

Happy now?
 
2007-03-15 01:51:27 AM  
Detroit_Bob: Of course you are! By intimating or outright claiming that he was tortured into giving the confession, you take the blame from his shoulders.

No I just said it taints the process and leaves questions. If it doesn't leave questions for you, I invite you to go to any kangaroo court in a third world country and suggest you subject yourself to their justice.

I don't doubt he's involved, et al. The problem is we've just lost the moral high ground, thus creating a martyr and reasonable doubt in many minds.

Keep drinking the kool-aid though. If it makes you feel better, it must be okay. Never mind that we're doing what the terrorists want by shredding our moral high ground and principles to get revenge on inept killers. They must be loving the fact they dragged this country down to their level.
 
2007-03-15 01:52:45 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: Some are not very good in expressing themselves. . .

I'm one of them.

Not an extremist, just not very good at expressing myself sometimes.
 
2007-03-15 01:53:21 AM  
Weaver95
Its funny, but lately Ive found myself compelled to re-read 1984 much in the way one might watch a familiar movie on AMC.
 
2007-03-15 01:54:31 AM  
log_jammin: I'm one of them.

Not an extremist, just not very good at expressing myself sometimes.


That's cool.

I noticed that often farkers tend to interpret others' post in the least reasonable manner possible.

We all want the culprits behind 9/11 to be brought to justice. I think everyone can agree on that here =)
 
2007-03-15 01:55:16 AM  
Detroit_Bob:

Oops, almost forgot Bob's medal:

www.dunckleystreet.com

Bob must have gotten a blister on the pinky keeping up with all these posts.
 
2007-03-15 01:56:07 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: I noticed that often farkers tend to interpret others' post in the least reasonable manner possible.

this should be the new motto for fark
 
2007-03-15 01:57:30 AM  
He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
 
2007-03-15 01:58:31 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: I ask again, what did OBL do in connection with 9/11 if KSM was responsible A to Z?

My understanding is that KSM used to be more in to the financial end of things in Al-Qaeda, but he approached OBL with the idea of 9/11, and sought authorization to spend R&D funds in that direction. At first, OBL was skeptical something like this would work, and he occasionally shifted some of KSM's personnel around, but KSM convinced him over time to let him oversee the plot. So KSM had ultimate authorization from above, but was in charge of all the relevant details on the ground. Peter Berger's historical accounts of Al-Qaeda go into great detail on that, and the 9/11 commission report does too if I remember correctly--some stuff was omitted for national security reasons in that part of the report.

Here is the 9/11 Commission's page on KSM and his role in 9/11:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm
 
2007-03-15 01:59:11 AM  
After three years of torture in Gitmo and I'd confess to anything also.

/// there see all that 911 conspiracy truth is silenced, it was his idea all along.....

/// sad part is more then 1/2 of Americans will buy it...
 
2007-03-15 01:59:35 AM  
So here’s my question. Why would they want to torture him into saying he was behind it? Why not get him to say it was all OBL or Iran played a role or Saddam? What would be their motivation?
 
2007-03-15 01:59:41 AM  
Weaver95

damnit. I still get a sinking feeling when I get to that part.
 
2007-03-15 02:00:59 AM  
log_jammin: What would be their motivation?

Right out of my ass, he's actually in custody
 
2007-03-15 02:01:09 AM  
So these three French kids are in Gitmo when....
 
2007-03-15 02:01:54 AM  
Somacandra: Here is the 9/11 Commission's page on KSM and his role in 9/11:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm


Thanks.

So it sounds like KSM's confessions were unnecessary, except for confirmation purposes?
 
2007-03-15 02:02:16 AM  
Party Boy: Right out of my ass, he's actually in custody

If thats the only reason then why not wait until election time?
 
2007-03-15 02:03:01 AM  
I am not going to defend this ass. He is well known as a terrorist and deserves to be put on trial for the many terrorist acts he has done includeing very likely 9/11.

But I will NEVER defend our nation using torture to get confessions or information. Our nation is forever tainted by the evil of torture. Its a disgusting practice that we should never have even thought of doing and those people who claim to be americans who defend its use are disgusting examples of whats wrong with the world. No matter what the person has done NO ONE deserves to be tortured. If our nation had any moral sense all the torturers and those who approved its use from the top down would be imprisoned for life with no hope of parole. We have lost any moral high ground we may have claimed and will never be seen the same way as a nation again. We can never claim to be the defenders of freedom and whats right in the world with this on our record. The traitors in The White House, in Congress, in the intellegence agencys and in the military who order or commit torture should be locked away never to see the light of day again.

The taint of torture will forever be on the hearts and souls of each and every American for not doing more to stop it. We need to punish those involved as a start to make up for this evil. We can never claim to be better than those we oppose as long as we use evil practices like torture.
 
2007-03-15 02:05:41 AM  
log_jammin: If thats the only reason then why not wait until election time?

I dont like speculation, discussion sans links, but I'm pretty sure were running the elections now.

meh, I just defended a straight out of my ass comment with more of the same.
 
2007-03-15 02:06:45 AM  
maybe youre thinking wait until primaries?

I'm liking where weaver is going with this more
 
2007-03-15 02:08:07 AM  
log_jammin: If thats the only reason then why not wait until election time?

I guess my related question would be, what have they been doing with him?

Wasn't he caught a few years back? Why is this coming out now?

I mean, it could be a simple government delay, of course, but the administration did have control over when this information would be released.
 
2007-03-15 02:08:14 AM  
FTFA: Transcripts for Al Libi and Binalshibh have been posted at: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Combatant-Tribunals.html
Liars.
 
2007-03-15 02:08:31 AM  
Party Boy: meh, I just defended a straight out of my ass comment with more of the same.

It's not like anyone is going to actually prove anything one way or anther about this anyway.

I just wondered what opinions were out there.
 
2007-03-15 02:09:57 AM  
its also nice to see fellow Americans say things against torture. Sad that were in a time/place that hearing proclamations against torture is necessary, but it makes me proud nonetheless
 
2007-03-15 02:12:00 AM  
Weaver95:

I read about what some of these guys are put thru during their incarceration and I can't help but think of the novel 1984. And that's not even considering things like the MKULTRA program.



Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: "Julia did it!"
 
2007-03-15 02:12:57 AM  
Kurland: The taint of torture will forever be on the hearts and souls of each and every American for not doing more to stop it.

Speak for yourself.
 
2007-03-15 02:14:27 AM  
Speak for yourself.

Historically speaking, once a government starts using torture on it's political prisoners, it's only a matter of time before it starts using it on ALL it's prisoners.
 
2007-03-15 02:17:01 AM  
KC Critic: Liars.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Combatant_Tribunals.html
 
2007-03-15 02:17:50 AM  
TwistedFark

Why does the New York Times hate tortured anuses?
 
2007-03-15 02:22:10 AM  
inglixthemad

"You're not going to win the war against terrorism with bullets, bombs, and torture. You're going to win it by seizing the hearts and minds by..."

...ripping them out of the chests and heads with your bare hands? Look, it's all well and good to address the root causes of the problem, but there comes a point at which you have to address the actual problem.


Some of you people are incredible -- you're so convinced the government is misleading you, I swear you'd insist the Stalin purges didn't happen and that Hitler didn't kill Jews if it was Bush that said otherwise.
 
2007-03-15 02:23:13 AM  
screams incomprehensible

TwistedFark

Why does the New York Times hate tortured anuses?


I bet this Khalid guy's anus looks like baked ziti right now. God Bless America.
 
2007-03-15 02:23:14 AM  
Here's his remarks, page 21
Because I need to go to bed, no HTML.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/03/14/transcript_ISN10024.pdf

His admission/confession is in the pages before. That's a LOT of shiat he's admitting to. Was he tortured and is this an entirely fictional account? This doesn't answer that.

What struck me is that the guy doesn't spout the "I hate your freedoms! I will get 72 virgins!" He looks at all of it very very differently...
 
2007-03-15 02:24:14 AM  
Some of you people are incredible -- you're so convinced the government is misleading you, I swear you'd insist the Stalin purges didn't happen and that Hitler didn't kill Jews if it was Bush that said otherwise.


No, we're just concerned that our government (which used to be firmly AGAINST human rights abuses) seems to be doing all the things we said we hated in the old Soviet Union.
 
2007-03-15 02:26:27 AM  
I should add, I don't think this transcript is fictional. And I don't think he was tortured into admitting what he did after having read his statement.
 
2007-03-15 02:28:37 AM  
And I don't think he was tortured into admitting what he did after having read his statement.

I don't know if he was or wasn't tortured. But I'm curious as to why someone would own up to something like that. And i'm not particularly pleased about the type of trial format he was given....
 
2007-03-15 02:28:49 AM  
spmkk
there comes a point at which you have to address the actual problem.

The Bush administration? People have been trying to address that for at least 4, maybe 5 years.

/or maybe it was redress
//free speech zones, and all. you know how it is
 
2007-03-15 02:31:51 AM  
TwistedFark
I'm going to have to disagree with you about the photoshop. It's my understanding that, much like souls, muslims possess no anus. The wiping hand is just a cover story.
 
2007-03-15 02:32:01 AM  
Kurland

"The taint of torture will forever be on the hearts and souls of each and every American for not doing more to stop it."

No. The taint that will forever be on the hearts and souls of every American is that of protecting the "rights" of the malicious few at the expense of the freedom of the many, in the pursuit of political correctness and as a result of not recognizing the diminishing relevance of centuries-old notions of "equality," and decades-old post-war definitions of "justice."
 
2007-03-15 02:32:42 AM  
Nonsense.
It was I who masterminded 9/11, started the Chicago fire, triggered the great San Francisco earthquake, nailed Jesus to the cross, steered that iceberg into the Titanic, shot JFK, leaked Valerie Plame's identity, created Jar-Jar Binks AND...let's not forget my ultimate devious crime...I also signed Celine Dion to a multi-album contract.
 
2007-03-15 02:33:53 AM  
Kurland: The taint of torture will forever be on the hearts and souls of each and every American for not doing more to stop it.

LOL! I'll grant you this: The lefties around here are simply awesome at coming up with hilariously stupid sound bites.
 
2007-03-15 02:33:55 AM  
FTFA: The comments were included in a 26-page transcript released by the Pentagon, which blacked out some of his remarks.

Prior to redaction [redacted text in brackets]:

Option 1:

[I will say that]"I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z,"[if you will stop torturing me!]

Option 2:

[In my capacity as an NOC asset of the CIA, and under their direction,]"I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z,"

/in the 93 attack - our govt trained the driver and greenlit the bombing. see this article

//how did KSM schedule those war games on the same day?
///how did he know they were scheduled?
////how did he get NORAD to stand down?
 
2007-03-15 02:34:22 AM  
Weaver95

Some of you people are incredible -- you're so convinced the government is misleading you, I swear you'd insist the Stalin purges didn't happen and that Hitler didn't kill Jews if it was Bush that said otherwise.


No, we're just concerned that our government (which used to be firmly AGAINST human rights abuses) seems to be doing all the things we said we hated in the old Soviet Union.

Capitalism thrives in a competition, but when left to its own devices it quickly destroys itself.
 
2007-03-15 02:38:51 AM  
//how did KSM schedule those war games on the same day?
///how did he know they were scheduled?
////how did he get NORAD to stand down?


How did he get KC Critic to eat so many paint chips?
 
2007-03-15 02:39:17 AM  
I'm curious as to how many of you who are so adamantly against torture are fans (like masses of Americans seem to be) of Jack Bauer and/or 24. And wondering how much the adulation expressed for the show is carrying through to our leaders' decisions about how they're handling everything. Hopefully it isn't... but I wonder.
 
2007-03-15 02:41:25 AM  
Here's the part that makes me want to bang my head against a wall. If he is guilty of crimes (which I believe he is), and there is overwhelming evidence to support this (which it sounds like there is). Then why all the mystery bullshiat with these tribunals? Is it simply arrogance? stupidity? laziness? Our judicial system does work. You bring him and the evidence for all to see. He gets found guilty. Then you fry his ass. Case closed.
 
2007-03-15 02:45:53 AM  
Jenesais: I'm curious as to how many of you who are so adamantly against torture

Ill bite. Its a series. I know its TV and not serious. many times, countries are not mentioned by name for one. There is no mention of Israel, specific arab countries. I do hear plenty about those 'evil russians' on there.

the plot line is also getting weak and predictable too. lately, Ive snoozed before the end.

Don't believe the hype and think all Americans are retards who cant tell the difference between entertainment and global politics.
 
2007-03-15 02:47:19 AM  
spmkk:

No. The taint that will forever be on the hearts and souls of every American is that of protecting the "rights" of the malicious few at the expense of the freedom of the many, in the pursuit of political correctness and as a result of not recognizing the diminishing relevance of centuries-old notions of "equality," and decades-old post-war definitions of "justice."



Funny. All these years I thought that was the whole point of our system of justice: that it was worth having a few shmucks get off if it meant that, in general, everybody got a fair shake.

You apparently take an opposite view? That, so what if a few innocents get caught in the net? We got all the bastards we were after and that's the only thing that matters.
 
2007-03-15 02:51:10 AM  
Jenesais:I'm curious as to how many of you who are so adamantly against torture are fans (like masses of Americans seem to be) of Jack Bauer and/or 24. And wondering how much the adulation expressed for the show is carrying through to our leaders' decisions about how they're handling everything. Hopefully it isn't... but I wonder.

Guess I'm biting too. I've never even seen a single episode of the show, but that's just me. However I believe there is quite a difference between a fictional story, and real life. Your argument is the same logic people use when trying to ban video games.
 
2007-03-15 02:52:38 AM  
I didn't make an argument at all, I just said I wonder.
 
2007-03-15 02:56:07 AM  
Jenesais

That was beautiful. Couldn't have done it better myself.
 
2007-03-15 02:57:57 AM  
Rippin Kitten
I've never even seen a single episode of the show, but that's just me. However I believe there is quite a difference between a fictional story, and real life.

You'd be surprised. Really! Surprised!

/Surprise!
 
2007-03-15 02:58:08 AM  
+1 +1 +1
 
2007-03-15 03:03:44 AM  
Weaver95: Historically speaking, once a government starts using torture on it's political prisoners, it's only a matter of time before it starts using it on ALL it's prisoners.

That may well be true, but it doesn't validate Kurland's blanket moral condemnation of "each and every American" on the matter.
 
2007-03-15 03:04:01 AM  
I heard when waterboarding didn't work, they brought in Anne Coulter sleep with this guy, to get him to say what they needed him to!

"It puts the lotion on..." - Anne Coulter

//Honestly, is there any smart individuals left that still listen to this government?

//This government has been so exposed nobody is going to buy this shiat.
 
2007-03-15 03:05:50 AM  
screams incomprehensible

So are you trying to say there is no difference between fiction and reality?
 
2007-03-15 03:11:24 AM  
Somacandra:

Fine, here's your "Troll Award" :

Image of some lame "you played too" ribbon

Happy now?


SWEET!

At the risk of thread hijacking, I propose a "Troll Award" photoshop contest! Then again, as a relative noob here, it's probably been done and I missed it. I'm just talking out of my non-photoshopped American anus.
 
2007-03-15 03:11:52 AM  
WAIT!!

So this means they got the one guy who's responsible for all terrrizm EVAR, right? So that means we can stop all this silly "War On Terrr" crap, right? We can repeal the whole PATRIOT Act immediatly, right? Right??

[Use their own bullshiat against 'em]
 
2007-03-15 03:25:15 AM  
Procedural Texture - Please to meet you. I think I guessed your name.

spmkk - You don't get it, do you? Either everyone has rights in a society, or no one does. Political Correctness has nothing to do with it. I consider you one of the "malicious few," but if I deny you the right to make stupid comments about the irrelevance of equality, say, then I automatically deny myself the right to make scathingly brilliant and insightful comments about what a neo-fascist chowderhead you are. See how that works?
Jeez, what an idiot.
/so angry I actually used "insightful" in a sentence.
 
2007-03-15 03:33:24 AM  
I don't think I'll ever understand the logic behind the greenlights. I submitted: Mohammed admits he bet on the Reds every game, masterminded 9/11, and there were other earlier, funnier, on topic submissions, but this one got it. It was fun to read all the submissions, though. It took Fark forever to choose. Congrats subby.
 
2007-03-15 03:33:48 AM  
Atario:WAIT!! So this means they got the one guy who's responsible for all terrrizm EVAR, right? So that means we can stop all this silly "War On Terrr" crap, right? We can repeal the whole PATRIOT Act immediatly, right? Right??

[Use their own bullshiat against 'em]


Are you kidding me? Talk like that will put you next on the war on terrors most wanted list.
 
2007-03-15 03:43:54 AM  
Wait..Celine Dion? That was you? You bastard!
 
2007-03-15 03:51:02 AM  
I was member of al-Qaida council

· I was director for planning and execution of 9/11, fr om A to Z

· I was commander for foreign ops

· I was directly in charge ... of cell for biological weapons, and follow-up on dirty bomb ops on American soil

· I was responsible for shoe bomber operation to down two US planes

· I was responsible for Bali bombing

· I was responsible for second wave attacks after 9/11: California; Chicago; Washington; Empire State, NY

· I was responsible for operations to destroy American vessels in the Hormuz, Gibraltar, and Singapore

· I was responsible for planning operation to destroy Panama canal

· I was responsible for planning assassination of ex-US presidents, including Carter and Clinton

· I was responsible for planning operation to destroy Heathrow, Canary Wharf and Big Ben

· I shared responsibility for assassination attempt on John Paul II in Philippines

· I was responsible for operation to assassinate President Musharraf


Wow, everything except the Titanic. On the face of things, this looks as dodgy as hell.
 
2007-03-15 03:59:51 AM  
Atario

So this means they got the one guy who's responsible for all terrrizm EVAR, right? So that means we can stop all this silly "War On Terrr" crap, right? We can repeal the whole PATRIOT Act immediatly, right? Right??

Well don't stop there. Repeal everything that has to do with catching terrorists. I'm sure your door has been knocked in at least 20 times since the patriot act went into effect. I'm sure the FBI has visited you a number of times. I say stop all listening in on phone calls because your privacy has been violated. And let's stop all this airport screening as it's none of their business what you are taking on board an aircraft. It's definitely an invasion of your privacy. The funny part is when Hillary (I think she will easily win) or whichever other liberal wins the Presidency, they will do the same thing. If they stop it and something happens they will get blamed.
 
2007-03-15 04:03:03 AM  
So how did all that other terrorist stuff happen while this guy was being held incommunicado if he was the big mastermind?
 
2007-03-15 04:07:03 AM  
Irregardless:The funny part is when Hillary (I think she will easily win) or whichever other liberal wins the Presidency, they will do the same thing.

This is why it's so crucial for America to vote republican in 2008.
 
2007-03-15 04:09:38 AM  
So, what actually happened on the 9th of November 2001
that this guy appears to be admitting to?
 
2007-03-15 04:14:39 AM  
Ideologues are impractical theorists.
 
2007-03-15 04:17:08 AM  
Wow I didn't know Jodie Foster was a lesbian. Somehow, I'm really really excited and really really sad at the same time.
 
2007-03-15 04:20:16 AM  
The funny part is when Hillary (I think she will easily win) or whichever other liberal wins the Presidency...



No, the funny part is when you call Hillary Clinton a liberal. BOO! It's a liberal! Is it under your bed or hiding in your closet tonight, Irregardless? Be verrrrry afraid...

Poor little thing.
 
2007-03-15 04:36:56 AM  
Irregardless: I say stop all listening in on phone calls because your privacy has been violated. And let's stop all this airport screening as it's none of their business what you are taking on board an aircraft. It's definitely an invasion of your privacy.

The funny part is, you think you're saying ridiculous things. The sad part is, you're a scared little 'fraidy-cat.
 
2007-03-15 04:41:39 AM  
spmkk:

No. The taint that will forever be on the hearts and souls of every American is that of protecting the "rights" of the malicious few at the expense of the freedom of the many, in the pursuit of political correctness and as a result of not recognizing the diminishing relevance of centuries-old notions of "equality," and decades-old post-war definitions of "justice."

The Constitutional Convention diminished the concept of "equality" by not dealing with the ambiguity (sp?) between it and slavery, so as not to offend the Southern delegates. The result of that "political correctness" was the Civil War almost a century later, which of itself left lingering hostilites and discrimination (inequality) that lingers to the present day.

If it had been dealt with back in 1789, or even a few decades later, things might have been different (and better) today.

Same with the issue of KSM - we aren't "watering" down our freedoms by making sure he's dealt with justly and fairly; we are safeguarging those freedoms for our descendants by holding all to a immutable standard.
 
2007-03-15 04:45:59 AM  
And yes, its Mr. Bush's fault. No one but the real crackpot wackos during Clinton's time doubted the guilt of Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadzic. No one but crackpots doubted Timothy McVeigh's guilt either. Yet Mr. Bush has managed to insert doubts in the general public's mind about genocidal conspirators like Khalid Sheik Mohammad. Its not just on Fark. That's sad beyond belief.

Sorry. That's not Mr. Bush. That's the incredibly loud chorus constantly attacking Mr. Bush.
 
2007-03-15 05:06:03 AM  
AuntNotAnt
Sorry. That's not Mr. Bush. That's the incredibly loud chorus constantly attacking Mr. Bush.

I know! and the worst part is, they're always attacking him for absolutely NO REASON!

/sarcasm
 
2007-03-15 05:13:22 AM  
excellent Hinckley, Jr. reference, subby
 
2007-03-15 05:14:48 AM  
AuntNotAnt:

Sorry. That's not Mr. Bush. That's the incredibly loud chorus constantly attacking Mr. Bush.



And I'm guessing you think he's done nothing at all to inspire such a spirited performance? And that "incredibly loud chorus" is just a few miscreants with particularly loud amplifiers and not the sound of a majority of Americans who are not happy campers where Mr. Bush is concerned?
 
2007-03-15 05:32:51 AM  
Once this guy sees his day in court, I'll start believing the administration, maybe:

i23.photobucket.com
 
2007-03-15 06:32:54 AM  
I assume that this "Sheikh Mohammed" whoever must be from Iraq. That would explain everything.

Wait, I just looked it up. He's Pakistani and Kuwaiti.

Oh noes! We invaded the wrong country!
 
2007-03-15 06:34:47 AM  
A few hours in a simulator... Purchase box-cutters, airline tickets, possibly some hand-held GPS units. Yep, that took a rocket scientist. Mastermind? Pffft.

Irregardless
I'm sure the FBI has visited you a number of times.
The beauty of the Patriot Act is that you may never know. But since you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, right?
 
2007-03-15 06:43:37 AM  
Crunch61:
But since you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, right?

Right.
 
2007-03-15 07:07:00 AM  
Irregardless
If they stop it and something happens they will get blamed.

If you stop masturbating and immediately develop a scorching case of the clap, do you blame yourself for not jerking off or for banging dirty whores?
 
2007-03-15 07:15:28 AM  
This is old news. The 9/11 report had this in it. The most interesting part of the report is that it states KSM claims not to be a member of Al- Qaida. He maintained that he did organize operations for them , but that he was not in the organization. Which begged the question, why wouldn't he admit to being in the organization, even under torture? (waterboarding is torture, no matter who says it isn't)
 
2007-03-15 07:17:26 AM  
Right

BZZZZT! Oh no, wrong answer! Well, don't forget to pick up your consolation prize before you leave... A one-way, all expense paid trip for two to scenic Guantanmo Bay. Yes, Guantanamo Bay, where the sun-drenched beaches are only a stone's throw away! You'll find them just past the barbed wire, attack dogs, mine fields and machine-gun toting guards that are there to make you safe!

Don't worry about boredom, no no no... You'll be the lucky recipient of the latest technological advances in information extraction and torture techniques! Yes, no visible scarring whatsoever! And while you're there, visit the House of Pain, the Hole of Darkness, and the infamously fun Rack of Subliminal Delights!

Ah yes, and once you've completed the tour, fear not! For indefinite detention awaits! The sweet smell of salt-air will be yours... Forever!

/Offer not subject to change without notice.
//Families of recipients will be "taken care of".
///Offer void where prohibited... Haha, we just say that!
 
2007-03-15 07:40:25 AM  
Google: Sivan Kurzburg.
 
2007-03-15 07:48:58 AM  
With enough waterboarding I could make you (anybody) claim to be the mastermind.
 
2007-03-15 08:02:39 AM  
Yunus: With enough waterboarding I could make you (anybody) claim to be the mastermind.

Everything I've heard about this guy indicates he wants to be known as the mastermind of everything. He'd probably confess to the Holocaust if he could prove he was old enough.
 
2007-03-15 08:03:14 AM  
KSM was the mastermind behind it, but Osama is the head of the organization which performed it.

So basically, KSM was the man most responsible for it. He even admitted it in an interview with Al Jazeera 8 months before he was captured.
 
2007-03-15 08:08:26 AM  
"With enough waterboarding I could make you (anybody) claim to be the mastermind."

That is just what they admit too.

Ice Pick, Alligator clips, Mercury Thermometer, Extension cord, Stun Gun, and no chance of release or possibility of a court trial.

You would want to confess and be executed too.
/For the part of your brain that is still alive...
 
2007-03-15 08:13:16 AM  
Did he also put the bop in the bop shoo bop or the ram in the ram a lam a ding dang?


Sounds like a bunch of shiat to me.
 
2007-03-15 08:16:42 AM  
With all that farking torture, I'd admit to 9/11 too.
 
2007-03-15 08:25:06 AM  
"I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z."

Yeah right. Because that's exactly the way people who speak foreign languages would say that.
 
2007-03-15 08:25:30 AM  
"protecting the "rights" of the malicious few at the expense of the freedom of the many"

You DO know the Administration and Pentagon has admitted there's innocent guys...along with this scumbag...at Gitmo, right?

And, hey, he confessed to hiding microfilm with info about the next attack in your food...he's probably lying, but just to be on the safe side, we're gonna cut you open to check.

Got a problem with that?
 
2007-03-15 08:31:18 AM  
EatYourHeartOut Thank you for someone who got the reference.( though I'm not the subby ) I was reading this thread wondering if it just went over people's heads or what.
 
2007-03-15 08:32:42 AM  
spmkk: ...ripping them out of the chests and heads with your bare hands? Look, it's all well and good to address the root causes of the problem, but there comes a point at which you have to address the actual problem.

Preferably not in a manner that generates more of the same problem though right? I mean do you suggest we get rid of poor simply by declaring the idea evil while simultaneously shooting them and blowing up where they work? We didn't beat Stalinist Russia by bombing the s**t out of them. We beat them by showing American life, even on the low end, was better. Heck we beat them by showing that even though it's not perfect, we offered more choice to the downtrodden than in the "worker's paradise".

Some of you people are incredible -- you're so convinced the government is misleading you, I swear you'd insist the Stalin purges didn't happen and that Hitler didn't kill Jews if it was Bush that said otherwise.

First, I really don't want to doubt that this guy is a mastermind, cackling and evil. The problem is simple: torture taints everything. This is as it should be. Torture is unreliable as far as generating information, or do you really think all of those pilots in Vietnam were actually sent out to bomb women and children on purpose. Hey they admitted to it! (under torture)

Second, I don't give two-s**ts about the current moron named Bush. I'm just glad he's going to be gone in two years. The only depressing thing to me is the fact we're going to have a long fight to pull ourselves out of the sty he's dropped us in. How long is it going to be before we can claim to be a beacon of freedom and justice again. No, we weren't perfect before, but compared to other nations: we were freakin' golden.

Finally if you think water-boarding isn't torture or that it's harmless I suggest you sign yourself up for some. Not the pu**y-a$$ way that we've seen, where the interrogator stops at your command via the web and news agencies. Nope. One where you are tortured for a piece of information that you may not have and they (the interrogators) go until they're satisfied you don't know, or at least that they know what you know. That could take more than a few repeated sessions. I'm thinking months, years.

Torture is what taints this, the President was just dumb enough to order and/or allow it.
 
2007-03-15 08:38:38 AM  
mysha

The Constitutional Convention diminished the concept of "equality" by not dealing with the ambiguity (sp?) between it and slavery, so as not to offend the Southern delegates. The result of that "political correctness" was the Civil War almost a century later, which of itself left lingering hostilites and discrimination (inequality) that lingers to the present day.

If it had been dealt with back in 1789, or even a few decades later, things might have been different (and better) today.

Same with the issue of KSM - we aren't "watering" down our freedoms by making sure he's dealt with justly and fairly; we are safe-guarging those freedoms for our descendants by holding all to a immutable standard.


Quick history lesson for you...we treated slaves as 3/5 of a person because of TAXES, which at the time were collected from the states by the federal government apportioned by population. It was not political correctness...but economic correctness...the practice of slavery was not so abhorrent as of yet to the general population rather it was a fact of life and an economic model (albeit a fairly stupid one).

It had nothing to do with political equality and EVERYTHING to do with the census (which the original purpose was to set tax rates and amounts...not to track how many farking toilet seats the average home has).

/rant off
 
2007-03-15 08:39:08 AM  
i.a.cnn.netupload.wikimedia.org

Long lost brothers?
 
2007-03-15 08:41:14 AM  
TDBoedy: It had nothing to do with political equality and EVERYTHING to do with the census (which the original purpose was to set tax rates and amounts...not to track how many farking toilet seats the average home has).

Golf Clap.
 
2007-03-15 08:45:24 AM  
I broke the damn.
 
2007-03-15 08:45:42 AM  
LessO2: Yeah right. Because that's exactly the way people who speak foreign languages would say that.

He was educated in the US.

/the more you know!
 
2007-03-15 08:49:05 AM  
Ya know, the sad part is I think he really was a 9/11 mastermind; but even when the government says he admitted to hit, they've just lied to me so many times, I have difficulty believing it.
 
2007-03-15 08:52:43 AM  
We got the guy! Tell the troops they can come home now.
 
2007-03-15 08:56:16 AM  
I think america is perfectly capable of fighting terrorism without shedding our principles.

the people who support torture, secret prisons, warrantless domestic wiretaps, skipping habeas corpus, et al. are essentially saying that the america we all know and love the america that stands for human rights, and individual freedoms is obsolete in the modern world.

adding insult to injury these people who don't mind the change have wrapped themselves in the flag claiming to be patriots.
 
2007-03-15 09:05:01 AM  
Jesus he's a hairy bastard. I bet he spends ten minutes every night clearing velcro-containing-objects off his body before he goes to bed.
 
2007-03-15 09:08:19 AM  
From CNN:

"I don't like to kill people," he said. "I feel very sorry they been killed kids in 9/11."

You hear that guys? He doesn't *like* to kill people so he must have an awfully darn good reason to do it. And he's sorry that kids died in the attack. Maybe *we* are the real terrorists here.

/if you were sorry you wouldn't have done it
 
2007-03-15 09:16:32 AM  
binnster: I bet he spends ten minutes every night clearing velcro-containing-objects off his body before he goes to bed.

I LOL'ed.
 
2007-03-15 09:18:18 AM  
"It's a fair cop, guv! You got me this time, and no mistake!" added Mohammed, in a statement taken during his three year incarceration at extra-territorial interrogation centre and read out during a secret military hearing sometime.

"You sure are one clever bunch of heroes. By the way, I shot JFK too," elaborated the world's most dangerous terrorist. " Hangin's too good for me!"

/from an email
 
2007-03-15 09:18:34 AM  
Dude

What happened to Osama Bin Laden?!!??!?!?!

I'm so sick of this country. :(
 
2007-03-15 09:21:18 AM  
Never would a dedicated revolutionary take credit for all manner of things in order to shield his comrades still at large and throw the enemy off the track. Nope. That would never happen. It is also inconceivable that his captors would trumpet the great success of capturing such a one-man slaughterhouse for political reasons. Impossible.

Nice neat package here, all tied up with a big, hairy bow.
 
2007-03-15 09:28:34 AM  
His confession may well be true, but the fact that people openly wonder whether it *is* true tells us so much about the percived (or actual) morals of the US administration.
 
2007-03-15 09:31:40 AM  
``I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z,''

yep, he'd definatly use a western metaphor involving a western alphabet....
 
2007-03-15 09:43:27 AM  
well played.

/+1 Subby
 
2007-03-15 09:48:46 AM  
Time to drown him in a Jewish outhouse, feed his body to Mr. Wu's pigs and use the resulting manure to fertalize a lemon tree orchard.

"When life gives you lemons......"

Yaaa. Back to our regularly scheduled cynacism...
 
2007-03-15 09:51:09 AM  

If I'd have submitted this my title would have been something like the following.



Pentagon transcript released has Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admitting responsibility for 9/11. "I was the AAAIIIII! NO! STOP STOP!!!! mastermind for NO! NO! NOT THE BALLS! 9/11 AAARRRGHH SHRIEEEEEEK!"
 
2007-03-15 09:52:56 AM  
From A to Z, the "information" clutter of the global war on terror carries the redolent stink of bullsh*t - on both sides. Like the "Al Qaeda in Iraq" bullsh*t whereby the Administration justifies its Iraq misadventure by saying we are fighting "foreign fighters" there, which also coincidentally suits the Iraqis just fine, since they can blame all their atrocities on "foreign fighters," and suits Al Qaeda just fine as they can vomit forth triumphant propaganda about their prowess and strength. Amazing how the same bullsh*t narrative serves the interests of all the various combatants at the same time.

My rule of thumb is to assume everything I hear is 100% bullsh*t until confirmed by multiple sources. Since almost nothing ever is, I conclude that approximately 85% of everything said about the terror war for the last six years is 100% bullsh*t - no matter who's saying it.

WE ARE FIGHTING TERRORISTS IN IRAQ!

THE EVIL AMERICANS BOMBED A WEDDING/FUNERAL/INNOCENT FAMILY!

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL!

WE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM!

WE FIGHT FOR ALLAH!

And so on.

Never have so many been lied to so consistently by so few for so long. The biggest lie of all is the claim by both sides that this is some titanic struggle for the future of civilization, or whatever bullsh*t they're peddling at the moment. This is really a low-intensity, small-scale turf war between relatively small groups of wealthy big shots competing to control the Persian Gulf oil fields. IOW, a mafia gangland squabble like crack dealers trying to control a lucrative street corner. The only thing titanic about the whole thing is the tidal wave of bullsh*t propaganda surrounding it. Most of the casualties are suckers acting as cannon-fodder and/or innocent bystanders.
 
2007-03-15 10:02:20 AM  
Oh, and I forgot to mention: The other titanic aspect of the whole thing is how ordinary people are being fleeced to fund it. From dumbsh*t Americans who take on trillions in debt and forego such frivolities as health care and their retirement to fund their side, to the millions of dumbsh*t poor Muslims parting with the precious little money they have to "suppport the mujahideen," the losers are those for whom "victory" or "defeat" will have little or no practical meaning. Welcome to the ultimate scam, folks. Step right up and grab your ankles.
 
2007-03-15 10:03:39 AM  
Ctrl+F Thermite = Phrase not found
Ctrl+F Explosions = Phrase not found
Ctrl+F Footprint = Phrase not found
Ctrl+F Fake = Phrase not found
Ctrl+F Cruise missile = Phrase not found

You guys are disappointing me today...
 
2007-03-15 10:04:14 AM  
He also confessed to bombing Pearl Harbor, kidnapping the Lindbergh baby, and shooting Lincoln so coudl he please keep the last three fingernails, please?
 
2007-03-15 10:04:26 AM  
www.charleslindbergh.com

Wow, a confession to government charges in a secret court. I heard that after a few hours of waterboarding he also admitted to some other crimes the Feds have had trouble solving. Forgive me if I'm underwhelmed.

/where's Osama?
//how did that WMD thing in Iraq turn out anyway?
///Yay, Afghanistan is free and democratic just like Japan!
 
2007-03-15 10:11:55 AM  
Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. He confessed to Daniel Pearl, 29 other planned attacks, September 11, assasination attempts against Carter and Clinton, and on and on. He is probably the kid who conned me out of me birthday money ($2) back in '72. If he wasn't, he would confess to it now.

Look, we know the guy was subjected to "rought techniques." We know he was involved in some hairy shiat. He may have been involved in September 11. The problem is that we will not ever know for sure because he is at the point of "confessing" to everything.

For anyone who thinks that our Constitution just "stands in the way of good law enforcement," this situation should cause you to stop and think about the quality (accuracy) of prosecutions if "rough techniques" were generally available to law enforcement across the country. Just keep in mind that the only person that can be manipulated by violence is the person in custody. If the person in custody is not the perpetrator, then the perp walks free every time under those circumstances.
 
2007-03-15 10:11:57 AM  
Yunus: With enough waterboarding I could make you (anybody) claim to be the mastermind.

j10jep: With all that farking torture, I'd admit to 9/11 too.

I am Spartacus!
 
2007-03-15 10:12:25 AM  
Atario: WAIT!!

So this means they got the one guy who's responsible for all terrrizm EVAR, right? So that means we can stop all this silly "War On Terrr" crap, right? We can repeal the whole PATRIOT Act immediatly, right? Right??

[Use their own bullshiat against 'em]



They don't think things through that far. Gonzales testified before Congress that it was his opinion that a restriction against the government abridging a right (writ of habeas corpus in this case) does not imply that the people actually have that right.

The text in question:
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

Use that logic and apply it to this:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

In fact, his opinion (if anyone though he was anything other that a douche) would invalidate the entire Bill of Rights.
 
2007-03-15 10:14:10 AM  
schiefaw: They don't think things through that far. Gonzales testified before Congress that it was his opinion that a restriction against the government abridging a right (writ of habeas corpus in this case) does not imply that the people actually have that right.

His conversation with Arlen Specter about that was pretty hilarious.
 
2007-03-15 10:14:55 AM  
Why does this confession matter? We know who carried out the attacks; we know who was ultimately responsible; we certainly know they happened. So what if the guys tells us, "Yes indeed, the attacks actually happened." Does that validate them somehow? I fail to see what's so newsworthy about this.
 
2007-03-15 10:17:19 AM  
farm1.static.flickr.com
 
2007-03-15 10:18:11 AM  
TalkingBaseball: Why does this confession matter? We know who carried out the attacks; we know who was ultimately responsible; we certainly know they happened. So what if the guys tells us, "Yes indeed, the attacks actually happened." Does that validate them somehow? I fail to see what's so newsworthy about this.

You realize that there are many people, including some in this very thread, who think that our government and/or the Israeli government orchestrated these attacks to provide a reason to pursue an aggressive foreign policy... right?
 
2007-03-15 10:21:43 AM  
T-Boy
We know he was involved in some hairy shiat.

An unfortunate - but accurate - phrase.
 
2007-03-15 10:26:11 AM  
Manfred Richthofen: Wait, I'm confused.

I thought OBL was responsible for 9/11? It was this guy?


No damage control shills want to step up and answer this question?

OBL claimed to have had nothing to do with the attacks, and his FBI rap sheet doesn't even mention them. I've been pointing that out for years.

If KSM was behind the attacks, why isn't he on trial for them here in the USA? Why all the secrecy and "Pentagon claims he said" crap, with the obligatory "national security" cloak thrown over the top of the whole thing?

9/11 was planned and pulled off by government insiders to bring about the shiat we are seeing today.
 
2007-03-15 10:27:17 AM  
falkensmaze: Seriously, fark needs a spellcheck function added onto the submission page.

See, personally, I preferred it when the mods would just let it go and we could just ridicule the submitter for the whole thread.

/only slightly sarcastic
 
2007-03-15 10:27:54 AM  
He certainly looks like a mastermind.
 
2007-03-15 10:29:37 AM  
I believe that this guy probably is responsible for orchestrating the attacks on 9/11. There was evidence of his involvement in other attacks beforehand.

This illustrates the problem with condoning torture. Not only can you not be sure you are getting correct information that you can act on, any confession you get will be tainted. Written confessions obtained under secret circumstances by a government that has officially condoned torture are not worth the paper they are written on.

There was a time when my countrymen knew the difference between right and wrong. Some of us signed up to defend the principles that made us different from the "bad guys". It saddens me to see the sacrifices made by soldiers throughout history wasted because we have devolved into a country that can't reason above a drunken diatribe level.
 
2007-03-15 10:32:43 AM  
elchip: You realize that there are many people, including some in this very thread, who think that our government and/or the Israeli government orchestrated these attacks to provide a reason to pursue an aggressive foreign policy... right?

Yes, and this confession will just seem to them as a fake release from our government. You can't convince the conspiracy theorists with this sort of confession. It has no bearing on our current situation regarding Iraq, Al Qaeada or any other terrorists.
 
2007-03-15 10:32:57 AM  
img149.imageshack.us
 
2007-03-15 10:34:57 AM  
Detroit_Bob

Heh, a handful of angry toolbags on Fark is hardly 'general public'.

You guys should try leaving the echo-chamber of select internet sites every now and again, and have a look at the real world...


Do you recall the November elections or EVERY PUBLIC OPINION POLL IN THE LAST 2.5 YEARS?

You cannot honestly be this utterly clueless so I am just going to assume you're a freeper troll. It's easier for both of us this way.
 
2007-03-15 10:35:00 AM  
HowlingFrog has entered the thread. I repeat, HowlingFrog has entered the thread. It is highly advised that you seek cover immediately.

twistedphysics.typepad.com
 
2007-03-15 10:39:19 AM  
LOL @ elchip

No worries; gotta get a shave and get to work. Woulda been fun, tho.

Parting question: would it be fair to expect KSM to receive a public trial when the 9/11 attacks never received a criminal investigation? What dirt would have been dug up in either scenario?

/Frog out
 
2007-03-15 10:40:38 AM  
GiantRobot

LOL!

/bonus:i was eating soup at the time
 
2007-03-15 10:43:02 AM  
HowlingFrog: Parting question: would it be fair to expect KSM to receive a public trial when the 9/11 attacks never received a criminal investigation? What dirt would have been dug up in either scenario?

I've said it before, I'll say it again... I don't see the danger in giving him a tribunal fashioned after a court-martial...
 
2007-03-15 10:45:52 AM  
Upon considering the comments on torture, I went and dug this up on Wiki while reading about waterboarding.

Interview of the Vice President by Scott Hennen, WDAY at Radio Day at the White House (2006) (exerpt included in wiki article)

There have been many reports that the United States has used waterboarding to interrogate prisoners captured in its War on Terrorism. In November 2005, ABC News reported that former CIA agents claimed the CIA had engaged in a modern form of waterboarding, along with five other "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques", against suspected members of al Qaeda, including Khaled Sheikh Mohammed.[2] On October 27, 2006 during a radio interview with Scott Hennen of radio station WDAY, Vice President Dick Cheney apparently agreed with the use of waterboarding, specifically mentioning Khaled Sheikh Mohammed.[16] The following are the questions and answers at issue, excerpted from the White House transcript of the interview:[3]

Hennen: "...And I've had people call and say, please, let the Vice President know that if it takes dunking a terrorist in water, we're all for it, if it saves American lives. Again, this debate seems a little silly given the threat we face, would you agree?"
Cheney: "I do agree. And I think the terrorist threat, for example, with respect to our ability to interrogate high value detainees like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, that's been a very important tool that we've had to be able to secure the nation. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed provided us with enormously valuable information about how many there are, about how they plan, what their training processes are and so forth, we've learned a lot. We need to be able to continue that."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

/failure html skills
//unfortunately can't stick around--off to work. would probably be flamed, anyway
 
2007-03-15 10:46:38 AM  
Jon Benet' my -e turned into an -I
 
2007-03-15 10:53:12 AM  
never mind this
The firing of eight US Attorneys -- many involved in corruption probes of public officials -- has drawn fire to Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, several legislators who pressured these and other attorneys to engage in investigations that would have aided Republican electoral strategies, and to the White House for using an obscure provision of the US Patriot Act to meddle in the hiring and firing of the attorneys.

Look over here ...we're winning the war on terror!
 
2007-03-15 11:00:40 AM  
spmkk: "Some of you people are incredible -- you're so convinced the government is misleading you, I swear you'd insist the Stalin purges didn't happen and that Hitler didn't kill Jews if it was Bush that said otherwise."


Not me bub. If W or his cronies say its true, that's good enough for me.
 
2007-03-15 11:19:41 AM  
I'm sensing a lot of hostility from Mr. Mohammed. I've seen aroma therapy and a good coffee enema do wonders in cases like his...
 
2007-03-15 11:29:57 AM  
5 years of torture and they finally convinced the guy he planned it all. Well done.
 
2007-03-15 11:35:06 AM  
I read this whole thread until I found someone mentioned the Lindberg baby. And my point was made.

This news was released by the administration to get the U.S. Attorney retaliatory-firing stuff off the front page. Every media outlet jumped on it without asking why it was released now, whether it was obtained by torture, or even likely true. Pathetic.
 
2007-03-15 11:39:13 AM  
Nightsweat: He also confessed to bombing Pearl Harbor, kidnapping the Lindbergh baby, and shooting Lincoln so coudl he please keep the last three fingernails, please?

Don't forget about Kennedy.
 
2007-03-15 11:40:36 AM  
Anyone else think he looks like Ron Jeremy?
 
2007-03-15 11:41:13 AM  
Torture. You'll say anything to just...make...it...stop.
 
2007-03-15 11:42:30 AM  
newmoonpuppyhead: Torture. You'll say anything to just...make...it...stop.

Is that on the official seal of the Justice Department?
 
2007-03-15 11:47:20 AM  
I was watching an old Clint Eastwood film last night, and in the film, there were some Mexican rebels fighting against corrupt american farmers, and this mexican breaks into an American courtroom with his guns out, goes up to an American judge and says to him, do you know that they stole our land?

Now the judge says to him, look if you present yourself in a court of law, I will listen to your side in this matter, and rule accordingly.

Anyway, I had seen this film years ago, and my impression of the judge back then was that you know, I understand the Mexican position, but really they should try the courts first, if their cause is just, the judge seems honest enough, they should be able to get their land back. It just seems that the Mexicans were being hot headed.

But in today's climate I read this movie completely differently. Now, I see the judge as lying through his teeth, he just wants to save his own skin, and there is no way in hell, never ever would any kind of foreigner get justice in America are you kidding, we torture brownskins, we don't grant them a court hearing.

It's a very different view of the film, and the film itself hasn't really changed. America has.
 
2007-03-15 11:57:36 AM  
But he also confessed to killing Dumbledore.
 
2007-03-15 12:08:27 PM  
DrBenway

Oh, he's done plenty to merit it. That, however, has nothing at all to do with the chorus's existence.
 
2007-03-15 12:19:47 PM  
warnakey
Dude
What happened to Osama Bin Laden?!!??!?!?!
I'm so sick of this country. :(


KSM was a major catch. Think of it this way, OBL was the producer, KSM the director. I hope that puts it in some kind of light.

KSM was a known terrorist before 9/11, and was already known to have been connected to that attack before he was caught. They didn't need to "torture" him to figure that out.

And to those crying "wait! he used a western term and hez a foreigner OMG! shananigans", KSM was educated in the United States. Read up on it sometime.
 
2007-03-15 12:31:23 PM  
Hell, enough sleep deprivation, bad meals, psychological torment, and people will say anything.

"You twist off a couple a fingers and he'll flip on his momma, his auntie, and his two pantie granny".
 
2007-03-15 12:39:13 PM  
From TFA:
"The transcripts also lay out evidence against Mohammed, saying that a computer seized during his capture included detailed information about the Sept. 11 plot - ranging from names and photos of the hijackers to photos of hijacker Mohammad Atta's pilot's license and even letters from al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden."

Bbbbut...he was tortured!!!1!!111

The blinding ignorance of Fark posters astounds me. If any of you have been paying ANY attention, you would already know about all the evidence against KSM. He was a well known terrorist long before 9/11. That is a documented FACT. But this is Fark, so we get to read the kiddies regurgitating whatever they heard Olberman say the night before.
 
2007-03-15 01:02:14 PM  
ec1.images-amazon.com

prehippie

And who's to say a tortured terrorist won't lie to get you to stop the torture, including taking culpability for crimes he didn't commit... then those who committed the crime stay free to wreak more havoc.

Maybe he was tortured into confession, maybe he wasn't, who knows? Not me, not you, it's all a closed circus and we only get to see the "results". If you still trust the results of that process after not capturing Osama, no WMD, no Iraqi peace, a resurgent Taliban, Katrina, Walter Reed, no bid contracts and billions in cash missing from the Bremer administration in Iraq, an appalling lack of actual convictions on any real terrorist cases, and now the revelation that the DoJ has been turned into a political funhouse instead of a working system...

Well, you believe it.

And don't try saying that "OMG, we haven't had an attack in the US since 9/11" ... the world is rapidly flaming outside our borders.
 
2007-03-15 01:12:18 PM  
sappho.d.beeblebrox: And don't try saying that "OMG, we haven't had an attack in the US since 9/11" ... the world is rapidly flaming outside our borders.

Can't really say that anyway.
 
2007-03-15 01:54:27 PM  
If any of you have been paying ANY attention, you would already know about all the evidence the Bush Administration claims that it has against KSM. He was a well known terrorist long before 9/11, the Administration says. They also say that that is a documented FACT.

That's good enough for me. They've not gotten anything wrong before.
 
2007-03-15 01:58:33 PM  
AuntNotAnt:

Oh, he's done plenty to merit it. That, however, has nothing at all to do with the chorus's existence.


Not sure how that makes sense? You're saying the chorus would be just as big and loud whether he'd done anything to invite it or not?

/may be densing out, been up since sometime yesterday...
 
2007-03-15 02:05:21 PM  
Okay. So we caught the mastermind behind 9/11.

Great! Swell! Hooray for us!

Now what?

Can we bring the troops home now?
Can we shut down Guantanamo now?
Can we repeal the PATRIOT ACT now?

As far as I recall, 9/11 was the catalyst for all our actions over the past 5 years.

Well, now it's been avenged.

So... Can we stop now, please?

.
.
.

Oh, and while I'm at it, since apparently Osama Bin Ladin wasn't the mastermind behind 9/11, does that mean we can stop saying 9/11 was Clinton's fault since he (allegedly) halted an assassination attempt on the guy?
 
2007-03-15 03:15:39 PM  
Hideously Gigantic Smurf

Oh, and while I'm at it, since apparently Osama Bin Ladin wasn't the mastermind behind 9/11, does that mean we can stop saying 9/11 was Clinton's fault since he (allegedly) halted an assassination attempt on the guy?

I always thought 9/11 was Al-Qaeda's fault, but that's just me.
 
2007-03-15 03:23:20 PM  
tbn0.google.com
 
2007-03-15 03:44:48 PM  
prehippie
The blinding ignorance of Fark posters astounds me. If any of you have been paying ANY attention, you would already know about all the evidence against KSM. He was a well known terrorist long before 9/11. That is a documented FACT. But this is Fark, so we get to read the kiddies regurgitating whatever they heard Olberman say the night before.


Olbermann would be flattered to see how you view him as a threat to your Kool-Aid refreshments.

Fact of the matter is, KSM was caught in 2003. That's four years ago. Do you really think KSM has held onto those "confessions" until recently?

Is KSM a bad guy? Absolutely. But this administration has proven itself to be untrustworthy, thus the skepticism on what's really been going on.

And frankly, the wording of KSM's confession stinks. People who do not use English as a first language simply do not speak in the way of KSM's supposed confessions. It reeks of a pre-printed statement that KSM was forced to sign after a good waterboarding.

If Bush wants to come out and debunk what many people are thinking, I'm sure the world would love to hear his side of it.
 
2007-03-15 04:15:44 PM  
prephippie: The blinding ignorance of Fark posters astounds me. If any of you have been paying ANY attention, you would already know about all the evidence against KSM. He was a well known terrorist long before 9/11. That is a documented FACT. But this is Fark, so we get to read the kiddies regurgitating whatever they heard Olberman say the night before.

Ok, let's say these confessions are the gospel truth.
The guy masterminded all these attacks, and since he was caught, 4 years ago, there haven't been any subsequent attacks. He's been confessing all the while, ratting people out.

What's the military doing in Afghanistan and Iraq then? The war on terrorism is plainly over.

Ah, what a web of lies they weave..
 
2007-03-15 05:07:45 PM  
Ok candidus I am a semireasonable man I will soften my statement some if you think tis unreasonable. If you have done one serious thing to attempt to stop torture I will say you are not tainted by it. Just one simple serious thing is needed and posting on places like fark doesn't count. Did you candidus personally do anything at all? Did you even do something as simple a mailing your congressmen or senators or participate in an organized protest? If you even have done that little, I certainly have, I will say you are untainted by the stain of torture.

If like most of our fellow Americans you have done nothing though then my statement stands. It is our duty to make sure our government does not do things like this. If you do not even attempt to fulfill that duty then you are part of the problem and you are tainted by this torture scandal. If we as americans do not stand up and be heard then we are to blame for what goes wrong.

If, and I don't think this of you candidus due to your reaction to my post, but if you support torture you are scum thats not worth of the name American. To hell with anyone who supports torture at all.
 
2007-03-15 05:29:16 PM  
i106.photobucket.com


/obscure?
//or just old school?
 
2007-03-15 06:25:10 PM  
Reality is always a long journey for the unhumans.
img444.imageshack.us

Time to realize that the "Pod People" have seized control of the United States of America and bent it to their unhuman psychotic whims.

// We will be their eternal victims if we do not once again become the controllers of our own fates and freedoms.
 
2007-03-16 12:21:14 AM  
I'd like to confess to something as well. The Hindenburg. That was all me, baby.

My bad.
 
2007-03-16 09:25:36 AM  
Don't really care. The world didn't stop turning.

punistation.fuyucorp.biz
 
2007-03-16 06:50:28 PM  
Well I am going to post though this is needs to be said. We caught this guy on March 1st 2003....but we went to war in Iraq March 19 (20), 2003. This doesn't make sense.
Also, this guy confesses to everything. This is incredibly ingenius. Now if anyone is accused of these things, he can say but Khalid did it, see he confessed.
 
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