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(CNN)   Please don't greenlight this, it's positive news from Iraq   (cnn.com) divider line 445
    More: Ironic  
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32331 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2007 at 3:17 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-14 05:13:52 PM  
Get this at your library and read it.
Yes, I'm talking to you too.

ec1.images-amazon.com
 
2007-03-14 05:16:31 PM  
Paulson

ake those asinine yellow ribbons off your H2 and do something that really supports the troops, like sending a care package or contributing to a veteran's charity.

i dont own any asinine yellow ribbons or an h2.

A group of my friends and I put together a bunch of care packages to send to some local soldiers in Iraq. It cost about the same as a few dozen magnetic ribbons, and it really made a difference.

good for you, i am glad to see our guys over there getting some goodies

And guess what? We're all liberals, we all hate Bush, and we all hate the war. We do NOT, however "hate the military".

if you are attempting to create a joke about generalizing, you fail.

What have YOU done for the military lately, other than send them to their deaths in a strange and foreign land?

i stay in touch via email with my old friends from 3/8 cav, 3bct, 1cd and send them whatever they need. also did so with a few buddies i know that were in 1/187inf, 3bct, 101 when they were over there (after i got back). also, i have sent no one to a foreign land to die.
 
2007-03-14 05:17:17 PM  
So...
American Deaths amount to 3,197
Since the election in January 2005: 1,760

That makes 55% of American Soldier deaths occur in the last year, while the war has lasted some 4 years. Sounds like progress to me.
 
2007-03-14 05:17:35 PM  
good post, Paulson, Know, what? If you really - I mean truly now - want to "Support the Troops" you ought to be clamoring for - demanding of your elected officials - that a $3/gallon gasoline tax to be enacted at once.

This would squelch the main source of $$'s for terrorist funding (besides all that US aid which had "disappeared," of course).

But a real sacrifice to support them? One that actually involves me doing something? hmph! I think I'll just stick this cool sticker on the back of my SUV instead... F'ing hypocrites.
 
2007-03-14 05:17:35 PM  
TheConvincingSavant
Ignorance, while not evil per say, is the best friend of evil. Leaving now would only further harm our image and cause additional loss of life without an army there to offer assistance.


can we just leave the word "evil" out of it? we're not children and this isn't a GI Joe cartoon. neither side can claim any moral high ground in this war, we're acting in our own self interests and so are they.

as for your other point, I agree that it would be a mistake to leave Iraq in this mess...which only serves to emphasize the foolhardiness of this war, since our military planners saw this coming years ago and were ignored.
 
2007-03-14 05:17:41 PM  
So, when the military pulls say, 25,000 troops out of Baghdad and all the terrorists who were biding their time launch waves of attacks that spike the percentages up to all time highs will CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News breathlessly report that too? Somehow I doubt it. Some "liberal media".
 
2007-03-14 05:18:06 PM  
The terrorists are just running out of suicide bombers.
 
2007-03-14 05:18:09 PM  
IXI Jim IXI

I think that a good majority of the world's problems could be solved by a suitable supply of 18 year olds in catholic high school outfits.

/remember, Jim in '08


yes, but only if they come with polonium. they do come with polonium, dont they, Jim?
 
2007-03-14 05:18:20 PM  
IXI Jim IXI: Easy for you to say. It's probably got people in Nebraska scared shiatless that they're about to be put on the Axis of Evil.


Don't drag us into this.
 
2007-03-14 05:19:22 PM  
thedarkjedi: The terrorists are just running out of suicide bombers.

Don't worry...some have signed up to go twice.

infantry: yes, but only if they come with polonium. they do come with polonium, dont they, Jim?

Yeah...in their little lead-lined purses.
 
2007-03-14 05:19:23 PM  
If you are hoping for the best in Iraq, TalkingBaseball, then my comment was not directed at you, now was it?


What? No grand display of grousing and whinging when someone calls you a tool? Tool is ok, but dickbag/dickhead is completely out of the realm of reasonable?

/I called him none of these, fyi
 
2007-03-14 05:20:26 PM  
tin_man: Don't drag us into this.

Don't you people have a lot of silos?
 
2007-03-14 05:20:28 PM  
infantry: i have sent no one to a foreign land to die.

Well, I sure am glad to hear that you voted against Bush and protested the war. I am sorry for thinking otherwise.

My comments were directed to the few Republicans remaining who are actually trying to justify the war...the ones who reall DO put those fukcing ribbons on their cars and think they're so righteous for 'supporting the troops' with their $1 donation to the magnetic ribbon industry.
 
2007-03-14 05:21:57 PM  
/But no, dude... seriously....
//Dude....
 
2007-03-14 05:22:19 PM  
a vote for IXI Jim IXI in '08 is a vote for barely legal teens and polonium.

you got my vote, Jim. just keep your campaign promises, alright? in the mean time, can you talk to the good representatives in the house ways and means committee? i uh, need funding for something
 
2007-03-14 05:23:11 PM  
it's nice to see that the musical chair strategy doesn't always end bad.

1st. remove wmd's
2nd remove saddam
3rd constitution
4th elections
5th fight civil wars
6th pretend its all about "terrorism" so strategy and purpose can constantly change

i wonder what the purpose will be next month?
 
2007-03-14 05:24:07 PM  
and I am sure the insurgents have no clue the extra troops are on the streets and probably aren't just lurking in the shadows until the troops head out again. unlikely scenario. no one could have envisioned this happening either.
 
2007-03-14 05:24:37 PM  
infantry: you got my vote, Jim. just keep your campaign promises, alright? in the mean time, can you talk to the good representatives in the house ways and means committee? i uh, need funding for something

Right now, they only view me as a gimmick, a maverick, a flash in the pan. But they will soon learn the power of this fully operational election...um...station.

And, once I'm in power, I'll offer them catholic school girls. Or altar boys. Whichever way they roll...it's all good in Jim's America.
 
2007-03-14 05:27:36 PM  
Paulson

Well, I sure am glad to hear that you voted against Bush and protested the war. I am sorry for thinking otherwise.

My comments were directed to the few Republicans remaining who are actually trying to justify the war...the ones who reall DO put those fukcing ribbons on their cars and think they're so righteous for 'supporting the troops' with their $1 donation to the magnetic ribbon industry.


i am not even sure how to go about responding to your remarks.
 
2007-03-14 05:34:07 PM  
IXI Jim IXI

it seems like its almost every day now that we have a conversation spanning several threads about young girls or polonium
 
2007-03-14 05:34:21 PM  
Paulson

Jesus, I think I just felt spit hit me all the way over here. Calm down man. Just cause someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them an idiot or even evil.

And, DjShamrock, the National Guard was in New Orleans as was one company of the 101st Airborne. Two NG soldiers were shot while partrolling the streets. I'll find the link later, gotta go for now.
 
2007-03-14 05:35:42 PM  
infantry: it seems like its almost every day now that we have a conversation spanning several threads about young girls or polonium

Yeah, but I'm not sure I like the combination.

Although I guess polonium in your pocket makes for pretty good birth control.
 
2007-03-14 05:35:57 PM  
Hickory-smoked: Hell yes. Great book.
 
2007-03-14 05:37:12 PM  
Great news.

Declare victory and bring the troops home.
 
2007-03-14 05:38:59 PM  
WarpZone ever play whack-a-mole?

It's funny you should use that analogy. Gen. Petraeus actually used the Whack-a-mole analogy to describe the old strategy.

I think you are missing some of the nuance and... er, "layers"... that are present here. Sure, there is a threat that the insurgency could lay low until that day when we leave. But they can only really succeed at that under certain conditions... specifically, shiatty ones.

By clearing out an area (brutally killing the insurgents, basically), then holding it and providing security in tandem with the IDF and police, we are restoring a sense of normalcy to the place. That makes it harder for a dormant insurgency to survive.

There is another important dimension to the new strategy. The Iraqi units and the US/coalition units are now the same units in a lot of these areas. Our guys are embedded with theirs. By the time we leave, they will hopefully be able to seamlessly continue the security operations without the US forces present. To the extent that a dormant insurgency actually still lives in those places, the Iraqi forces will hopefully be able to handle it.
 
2007-03-14 05:39:06 PM  
The number of civilians killed in Baghdad in the past four weeks was 265

Woohoo! Great news!

The murder rate in Baghdad is now only six and a half times the murder rate in the similarly-sized New York City! Let's all move there!
 
2007-03-14 05:39:21 PM  
FLYNAVY

As one of those overseas types we do read the US media & alot of us do read fark to gage the mood of the country [not real accurate I've found]. But the opposition has hurt most of us to read & has killed the morale of the average soldier & some nights it has made me angry because people are forming opinions from a slanted media that like reporting bad news. Hardly none of the victories we accomplish is reported, none of the new schools is ever mentioned, etc. Who else is going to help these people if not us, where is the compassion the US is so famous for? Serious questions. I swear everyday we feel like we are saving that same kid from being run over by that truck & no one ever says thankyou, nice job son. It gets old after awhile, ok enuf whine outa me.

Thanks for your service.

But . . . I can't help but be skeptical of the good news when it comes from the people that have made either horrible predictions or outright mistatements again and again.
such as:

"six days, six weeks, I doubt six months"
the war will pay for itself
"last throes"
"we know exactly where the WMDs are"

Accompanied, of course, by mocking and attacking the patriotism of anyone who challenged these rosy statements.

Then there's the angle that "progress" is supposed to actually improve the situation. We've been told about so much progress and so many turned corners, but years later its just as bad or worse.

So again, forgive my skepticism. I believe you. I just don't believe your boss anymore.
 
2007-03-14 05:39:29 PM  
Murders down from 1440 to 265? That's great news. I'm sure it will be of great comfort to the families of those 265 dead people.
 
2007-03-14 05:41:58 PM  
IXI Jim IXI

Although I guess polonium in your pocket makes for pretty good birth control

i guess. although if you talk to any of my ex-girlfriends, they will say that my asshole arrogant attitude is enough birth control :D
 
2007-03-14 05:43:50 PM  
infantry: i am not even sure how to go about responding to your remarks.

I'm not surprised. It must be tough trying to justify an indefensable position. To say that any good has come from this war is just a way of trying to hide your guilt with happy thoughts.
 
2007-03-14 05:44:36 PM  
By clearing out an area (brutally killing the insurgents, basically), then holding it and providing security in tandem with the IDF and police, we are restoring a sense of normalcy to the place.

You're talking about an indefinite military occupation of a neighborhood.

That is not 'normalcy'.
 
2007-03-14 05:44:48 PM  
infantry: i guess. although if you talk to any of my ex-girlfriends, they will say that my asshole arrogant attitude is enough birth control :D

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the "sleep on the couch" method of birth control ;)
 
2007-03-14 05:45:05 PM  
This is rather neat.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/index.html
 
2007-03-14 05:45:35 PM  
Have drillings through the head also gone down? I haven't been able to find this stat.
 
2007-03-14 05:48:41 PM  
TGOT:

I'm reading your posts with my mouth hanging open and blinking in sheer amazement/bewilderment.

Very good jerb you're doing today.
 
2007-03-14 05:48:45 PM  
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/american-wars.html

this one sorry
 
2007-03-14 05:48:59 PM  
bikerific Accompanied, of course, by mocking and attacking the patriotism of anyone who challenged these rosy statements

When did the Bush administration ever "mock" or "attack the patriotism" or anyone? They've actually refused to do so in many instances where they should have.

And those 3 statements you quoted aren't so ridiculous. The "last throes" one is clearly a subjective and characteristic of an opinion, but numbers 1 and 3 were perfectly reasonable. Statement 1 was ultimately correct, but, as you can see here, the mindless meme regarding that particular statement began as early as 10 days into the war, so it is clearly not based on an intellectual assessment of things. A lot of that sort of complaining tends to originate with sheltered trust-fund types who think wars should look like video games, and then they are perpetuated by a largely uneducated and uninformed segment of the population (think Jon Stewart's audience).
 
2007-03-14 05:50:04 PM  
Paulson

I'm not surprised. It must be tough trying to justify an indefensable position. To say that any good has come from this war is just a way of trying to hide your guilt with happy thoughts

you attacked me and accused me of doing nothing for the troops. your statements are bordering on being ludicrous.

explain to me what guilt i have, and what the guilt is towards. dont really think i have any guilt about most things i have done in my life, and i am extremely proud of what i have accomplished.
 
2007-03-14 05:51:42 PM  
Jowood
So, we don't pull them out of Baghdad. People will become convinced that it is possible to live a normal life and turn in the milita members/terrorists/insurgents, once they feel secure from retribution for turning in these people. Everybody in the areas know who the people are. The insurgents/militia members/terrorists literally paraded their identity and involvement with these groups. They can only hide from the Army as long as their neighbors keep quiet.
 
2007-03-14 05:54:01 PM  
smitty1276
When did the Bush administration ever "mock" or "attack the patriotism" or anyone?

Congrats! you've just made the "10 most ludicrous things I've ever read on Fark" list. And you're so new here to boot...
 
2007-03-14 05:57:57 PM  
FlashLV: ou said the news said it, and I asked for a source to back it up because I know you are lying.

OK I live in TN. Here's a local News link.

Since the 9/11 attacks, three out of every four members of the state Guard -- 10,869 of them -- have deployed overseas to Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait and Kosovo.


We give a shiat more about Iraq than New Orleans.
 
2007-03-14 05:58:19 PM  
Everyone forgets that every occupation force (such as the one we're using) has one goal:

Hold the country until the government you set up can train it's own army and law enforcement.
That's all we're doing, and when they're ready, we'll pull out, Iraq will be able to take care of themselves if we allow their army to properly train.
 
2007-03-14 05:59:51 PM  
smitty1276

your post doesn't tell me how we're going to maintain the security. We have not managed to train nearly enough Iraqi security personnel to hold all the the cities and neighborhoods that we would temporarily "surge" into. the paltry 4,000 troops sent in are just a tiny reinforcement.

Guerilla warfare is low tech, cheap, and very effective. When we leave the area in force, the insurgents will return. Taking and holding a territory is a sound tactic, but only if you have the manpower to do it. It's also made more difficult by the fact that many of the civilians are openly hostile to our presence.
 
2007-03-14 06:00:17 PM  
Tat'dGreaser: And, DjShamrock, the National Guard was in New Orleans as was one company of the 101st Airborne. Two NG soldiers were shot while partrolling the streets. I'll find the link later, gotta go for now.

I kow they showed up like 2 weeks after the fact. The news was reporting that the National Guard was stretched thin because of the war in Iraq. I am not lying. I am not making this up. We could get reporters to the scene but not Guard troops?
 
2007-03-14 06:01:37 PM  
kbotc: Everyone forgets that every occupation force (such as the one we're using) has one goal

There've been one or two in the past whose goal was merely raping and pillaging. I remember another whose goal was liebensraum.

Your statement is ludicrous.
 
2007-03-14 06:02:22 PM  
smitty1276
When did the Bush administration ever "mock" or "attack the patriotism" or anyone?

Well here I thought teh jury was out discussing teh_gospel_of_thomas' fool-ness versus chump-dom.
Turns out you've out-Heroded Herod. You win teh most idiotic comment of teh month award.

/...
//Dude....
///No, really - dude....
 
2007-03-14 06:04:29 PM  
infantry: explain to me what guilt i have, and what the guilt is towards. dont really think i have any guilt about most things i have done in my life, and i am extremely proud of what i have accomplished.

I don't know about you, but if I was one of the millions of Americans who have supported and justified this war over the years and have called the anti-war crowd traitors and worse, I would certainly feel a great deal of guilt at this point. Maybe it's just me.
 
2007-03-14 06:04:42 PM  
smitty1276

If we stay for a while, hold the ground, and do NOT give them a date (a "light at the end of the tunnel" for the insurgents), then we can win this thing...

That makes some sense. What I'd love to see us do is announce a victory day, appear to ramp down, wait for violence to escalate a bit, and then *wham* clamp down again, hard.

That'll learn 'em to trust the liberal media.

// I know, espionage and simple information flow makes this damn near impossible
/// "If it worked in sci-fi, it's sound military strategy!"
 
2007-03-14 06:05:25 PM  
 
2007-03-14 06:06:40 PM  
All these charts, and none of them are pie charts.

I'm a sad panda.
 
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