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(CNN)   Please don't greenlight this, it's positive news from Iraq   ( divider line
    More: Ironic  
•       •       •

32337 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2007 at 3:17 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

445 Comments     (+0 »)

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2007-03-14 03:52:12 PM  

Excellent! That's a much better graph; thank you.


2007-03-14 03:52:16 PM  
"War isn't a numbers game u idiot u cant track it on a farking graph."

That's not accurate; while morale is very important, war IS a numbers game...and you can track it on a graph.

Which is pretty much what the Iraqi in the article is trying to do, isn't he?
2007-03-14 03:52:18 PM  
Soup4Bonnie: Anyone have any numbers on the car bombs, kidnappings, assassinations or mortar attacks in Baghdad before the invasion?

When Saddam and his thugs killed people, there was no press in Iraq to report on it, yet there are mass graves that are the evidence of such events.

Do you really want to look me in the face and tell me that Iraq was a peaceful place - pre 2003?

You you seriously expect me to believe that story of yours?
2007-03-14 03:52:22 PM  

Well, clearly, Step 1 is to quit pissing in the pool.

We're still working on that part.
2007-03-14 03:52:58 PM  
Why are you talking about Coverage, Pro Zack? I'm concerned more about people dying than perceptions.
2007-03-14 03:53:47 PM  
Oh, come on, TGOT, answer the question!

Are you a virgin How can we militarily defeat "terrorists"? What, EXACTLY, would be a military victory in Iraq?

If I'm so mentally impaired, that must be SIMPLE for a genius like you.

So what's the answer?

How do we win?
2007-03-14 03:54:08 PM  
it's completely BS, and made to visually inflate the numbers.

well, being that reporters are forbidden to photograph coffins of dead soldiers and the maimed, paralyzed and burned are flown home only in the cover darkness to places where they're not allowed to speak to the press, it's safe to assume you're not very interested in truthful representations here anyway.
2007-03-14 03:54:37 PM  
Getting rid of terrorists is like trying to get pee out of a pool with your hands.

/suck at metaphors

But apparently excel at taking quotes from tv.
2007-03-14 03:54:49 PM  
2007-03-14 03:54:52 PM  

You are a parody, right? Nobody could possibly believe such blatant spin and false rhetoric.

2007-03-14 03:54:59 PM  
While I hope that this is a sign of things to come, I'm skeptical at best. Several weeks of reduced bloodshed after increasing operational pressure isn't exactly a sign that things are calming down though, I wouldn't think. It seems that now instead of gathering intel and rounding up those actually committing acts of violence, we're patrolling, which might be more damaging in the long run.

Can't God just hit crtl+alt+del ?
2007-03-14 03:55:02 PM  
When Saddam and his thugs killed people, there was no press in Iraq to report on it, yet there are mass graves that are the evidence of such events.

Saddam wasn't a good guy or anything but the mass graves are from a massive war with Iran. No, you can't equate Saddam with Nazi Germany. Not yours.
2007-03-14 03:55:30 PM  
if you talk to the troops or read military blogs, they aren't planning any parades just yet. the general consensus is that the insurgents are laying low to wait out the escalation.

id love to pretend that this actually means something, but it's guerrilla warfare, and this is no surprise.

yeah I know: my entirely reasonable opinion is aiding the terrorists, and obviously I hate America.
2007-03-14 03:56:37 PM  
So what's the answer?

How do we win?

Simple. We present ourselves as a solid rock of morality, freedom and The One True God as the heathens break their bodies against our walls of righteousness. Once they realize they cannot crack so much as the mortar of our Holy foundations they'll turn from their lunacies and embrace the truth we seek to so earnestly spread across the world.

I mean, fakr man, have you listened to nothing Bush has said?
2007-03-14 03:57:09 PM  
2007-03-14 03:57:24 PM  
Oh, yeah. Good news. Uh-huh. Right.

3,197 American military deaths and 23,785 non-fatal casualties.
2007-03-14 03:57:31 PM  
You cannot "pacify" a populace that is armed. End of story.
2007-03-14 03:57:45 PM  

you really can't. you kill as many as you can of them and you ferret them out as much as possible. you certainly don't quit, and you don't negotiate with them or acquiesce to force or the threat of force. to do so is to proclaim your victimhood
2007-03-14 03:58:05 PM  
"Operation Enforce the Law"

Hey! We want our, pardon the pun, cartoonishly earnest and straightforward operation code spin-control name back.

\Go Joe!
2007-03-14 03:58:54 PM  
Say, for instance, that you're walking down the street and in the course of your perambulations come upon a deranged homeless man yelling at a lamppost trying to convince it that Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster. Would you stop and try to convince the poor, deranged man otherwise or would you keep on walking?

Why not do the same on Fark?
2007-03-14 04:00:22 PM  
Okay, so Iraq is taken care of. What about Operation 'Rest of the Brown Ones?

/you've been crossed, my man.
2007-03-14 04:00:38 PM  
Is the number of deaths down because there has been less insurgent activity, or because we have been effectively stopping their attacks? Having an increased military presence will get them to stop their attacks in the short term, but says nothing about when (if) we leave.
2007-03-14 04:00:39 PM  
DJShamrock - Getting rid of terrorists is like trying to get pee out of a pool with your hands.

...while the kid is still swimming along happily guzzling from a 3 liter bottle of Mountain Dew.
2007-03-14 04:00:53 PM  

Iraq wasn't a peaceful place, no; but it may very well have been more peaceful in the average Iraqi's experience. Saddam was a monster, but he was contained; we deposed him, and now we do not know how to maintain order in that country.

And let's be honest: you'd rather be stripped of your rights, thrown in jail, or accidentally wounded / killed by your local police (in whom you have at least invested some authority) than by, say, the police or military of the next country over. Military occupation wounds people in ways that don't show up well on graphs; to be successful, an occupation needs to make things drastically better, fast.

That has not happened here.

The problem with the war in Iraq is it is neither a practical nor moral war. Not practical, because it is incredibly hard to maintain order in a country on the edge of civil war (as America learned in Vietnam). Not moral, because we violated the basic tenant of invading another nation's sovereignty without direct provocation. The UN was lax on stringently enforcing its policies regarding Iraq, but that did not give America carte blanche to invade. Much of the world community has taken this stance, and America is just going to take a long time to come to terms with the fact that the invasion was wrong.

It's a hard slog no matter what option America chooses strategically. It's good to hear some good news, though.
2007-03-14 04:01:59 PM  
Maybe there are no positive news stories coming out of Iraq because there are no positive stories coming out of Iraq. If there were, Fox would be reporting them, instead of reporting on Anna Nicoles corpse.
2007-03-14 04:02:39 PM  
I believe that this increasing tide of good news will sweep Fred Thompson and Ann Coulter into office...
2007-03-14 04:03:35 PM  
Nice one, 5000_gallons_of_toothpaste.
2007-03-14 04:04:01 PM  
We should do this same exact thread next year... hell, maybe every year on this day from now on.
2007-03-14 04:04:11 PM  
These treads are just vomit enducing and pointless. No wonder we can't get controll of our own county. Pointing fingers seems to be the only form of communication you people understand. I guess thats why thats exactly what we get in washington. Change can never happen, never ever, if there are no offered solutions only finger pointing.

I think there are great ideas as to how to move forward that both sides could aggree on, but there is no point in bringing any of them up. You first have to have a real interest in solving the problem, not just playing the blame game. I have not seen any open or honest discussion about problem solving on any of these ranting links. It makes me wonder if there is anyone here even capable of thinking for themselves.
2007-03-14 04:04:34 PM  

you really can't. you kill as many as you can of them and you ferret them out as much as possible. you certainly don't quit, and you don't negotiate with them or acquiesce to force or the threat of force. to do so is to proclaim your victimhood

Uh... so... are you ACTUALLY SAYING that we will have to stay in Iraq until the end of time, or until every single citizen of the middle-east gives up their arms and pledges eternal allegiance to the American Alliance?

Because that's what that sure sounds like.
2007-03-14 04:04:56 PM  
Calling the troop increase a "Surge" actually helped, I think. It encouraged the insurgents to lay low and "wait it out" until we leave. Since we're never going to leave, the insurgents will continue to lay low... and we really only need a certain amount of time to train troops and such, right?

I fail to see how the insurgents "laying low" is a bad thing. We don't really want to kill them- we just want them to stop fighting. Killing them just spreads the problem: the more people you kill, the more relatives of victims you've created.
2007-03-14 04:05:02 PM  
2007-03-14 03:48:26 PM FlashLV

Mission wasn't accomplished?

I guess the mission on D day wasn't accomplished because the war wasn't over, huh?

Wow, does someone feel like pointing out the idiocy inherent in comparing an invasion with a specific, well stated goal, and the quagmire that is Iraq? (This is completely seperate from pointing out the differences in the forces being considered)
2007-03-14 04:05:39 PM  
Quick Fixer

Careful, there. Talking sense into people like the_gospel_of_thomas might cause him to actually think, and that may cause him physical harm.
2007-03-14 04:05:40 PM  
In all seriousness, as an AMERICAN, this news is encouraging. However, I am a democrat that has opposed the war in Iraq from the start and I will have to wait and see if this is a real improvement that will last or if it's just a lull in the attacks.

I support the troops but I do not support the policy.
2007-03-14 04:06:20 PM  
Wow, Feyrerm. You're SO MUCH better than us. It's crazy. I mean, there's the rest of us, and then vooooooooomp there's YOU. Way, way up there at the top. I mean, we just can't get any LESS good than you, ya know? I just give up. There's no point, when I'm stuck down here so low and helpless as I am. Congratulations. The oh so much better man has won.

/PS - all you did was point fingers too.
2007-03-14 04:06:23 PM  
This thread feels like a time capsule from 2004.
2007-03-14 04:06:34 PM  

I think this is the answer

I suspect a lot of people would have many, many thoughts to share with crazy screaming street people if not for the potential that said crazy might turn on them with a knife.
2007-03-14 04:06:50 PM  
Alphax:" ...Most of the attempts at violence have been against the occupying troops, but they're a lot tougher to kill than the Iraqi citizens."

They're accidentally tieing the hands of civilians and shooting them in the head before dumping them in back alleys while trying to kill Americans?

The favorite place for a car bomb has been markets. Not too many Americans there. Lots of civilians, though.

It's Sunnis trying to kill Shi'ites and Shi'ites trying to kill Sunnis, mostly.

If we somehow manage to reduce those deaths, I think it's a good thing. We need to start getting the Sunni civilians to rat out Sunni extremists and the same for the Shia.
2007-03-14 04:07:11 PM  
how exaclty is this news positive?

you make a widely advertised clamp down on a city. insurgents hear you're going to do so, bury the RPG in the back yard, take to the hills for a few weeks till the Yanks go back to their bases, then go back killing/ethnically cleansing the shiias/suunis in your neighborhood.

anyone who thinks that this war is, at this point, going to be solved through military means is a fool. we had our chance, we blew it. we blew it long ago. while the rumsfeld doctrine of special forces war is great for defeating armies, it sucks for occupying a country (you need boots on da ground, yo), and coupled with disbanding the Iraqi army set up the conditions for the anarchy and void that has been filled by these militias.

and if history teaches us anything, these types of insurgencys are not defeated strictly through military means, there has to exist a political climate of some sort to encourage them to lay down their arms.

(which was more or less what the Baker report recommended: engage in dialogue with the neighbors and figure something out)

so our phearless leadurr's response?

a temporary surge in troops numbers in baghdad. the incompetence and denial of this administration are staggering, and we as a nation are going to be paying for their mistakes for decades.

any cute swiss girls out there wanna help a yank get a swiss work authorization?
2007-03-14 04:07:33 PM  
Oh boy, it only took a small genocide to achieve that success!

BTW, good for Iraq. How's the USA doing these days?

"The Commerce Department reported that the imbalance in the current account jumped by 8.2 percent to $856.7 billion, representing a record 6.5 percent of the total economy. It marked the fifth straight year the current account deficit set a record."

/USA not doing so well thanks to GOP leadership
2007-03-14 04:07:47 PM  
Uh... so... are you ACTUALLY SAYING that we will have to stay in Iraq until the end of time, or until every single citizen of the middle-east gives up their arms and pledges eternal allegiance to the American Alliance?

don't give me an "uh" response--i didn't diss you.

no, we can leave iraq when they get their security forces better up to speed. the general threat of terrorism will continue, though, especially as the western world gets more secular and the arab world continues to nurse grievances, govern by authoritarianism and not offer its young people a voice or a job. we will (and western europe will) continue to be a target and must be vigilant, and, i believe, proactive. i don't want to see anymore people plunging to their death from a downtown skyscraper
2007-03-14 04:07:47 PM  
Oh wait I mispoke.

Iraq is safer than DC! Maybe we should move the President there?!
2007-03-14 04:08:08 PM  
Did I read this correctly?? There are 80,000 security forces just in Baghdad? I haven't had friends in Baghdad in a long time. The Marines seem to be sticking to Al-Anbar province but it seems like we have about a Company per town over there in Anbar province. I guess an infantry Company would have about 200 people in it or so. Now of course they are working with Iraqi forces and I have no idea how many, but wow. 80,000 just in the capital.

Oh, and BATHYSPHERE? It mostly interests me, and then frustrates me. But the frustration is mostly because all of these farkers are pretty darn smart and have good ideas, but very few of them use their big ol' brains for anything but snark and making money, although if they're farking all day who knows how good they are at that... Everyone here has big ideas but no one is doing anything except wiggling their fingers and feeling like a big dog for telling the other guy how dumb he is. I would like to see more farkers who ostensibly care about this country do more than just have a flame war about it.
2007-03-14 04:08:13 PM  
Bathysphere :
As one of those overseas types we do read the US media & alot of us do read fark to gage the mood of the country [not real accurate I've found]. But the opposition has hurt most of us to read & has killed the morale of the average soldier & some nights it has made me angry because people are forming opinions from a slanted media that like reporting bad news. Hardly none of the victories we accomplish is reported, none of the new schools is ever mentioned, etc. Who else is going to help these people if not us, where is the compassion the US is so famous for? Serious questions. I swear everyday we feel like we are saving that same kid from being run over by that truck & no one ever says thankyou, nice job son. It gets old after awhile, ok enuf whine outa me.
2007-03-14 04:08:35 PM  

Why are you talking about Coverage, Pro Zack? I'm concerned more about people dying than perceptions.

because your post was technically correct.

but I believe it will be a lot lower key than it has been.

lower key.

Just as Sadaam's extermination of kerds barely crossed our consciousness when it happened.
2007-03-14 04:08:38 PM  
You're claiming that (in one quarter in Baghdad alone) under Saddam there were more than:

265 roadside bombs
92 car bombs
313 mortar attacks
541 assassinations
108 kidnappings

but you can't verify it because there was no press?

Is that what you're saying, tgot?

Because if you say there were less than that, one might be inclined to think that the US invasion isn't really improving the life of the average Iraqi at all. In fact, it might be worse after the US invasion.

At least we got all those WMDs out of the hands of terrorists. You know...the ones that are "in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
2007-03-14 04:08:43 PM  

albo - you really can't. you kill as many as you can of them and you ferret them out as much as possible. you certainly don't quit, and you don't negotiate with them or acquiesce to force or the threat of force. to do so is to proclaim your victimhood

Oh, so war without end, amen...

/Halliburton has such a woody
//We've always been at war with Eurasia
2007-03-14 04:09:06 PM  
Good news. How will the left turn this into a negative point?

I am giddy with anticipation waiting to see how they can spin this!
2007-03-14 04:09:59 PM  
Sad that so many rush into this thread with as much bad news as they can type just to make themselves feel better.

2007-03-14 04:11:20 PM  
They're just running low on volunteers to blow themselves up.
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