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(ABC)   In its continuing effort to protect New Orleans from flooding, the Army Corps of Engineers installed defective pumps on the levees to prepare for 2006 hurricane season   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 71
    More: Asinine  
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4133 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2007 at 5:25 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-13 03:55:37 PM  
Shocked!
 
2007-03-13 04:01:08 PM  
"American taxpayers think it's a bad idea for a city to be eight feet below sea level.

i13.photobucket.com

More at eleven"
 
2007-03-13 04:03:46 PM  
I'm so glad my house is high enough that it didn't flood in Katrina, otherwise, I'd have a serious heart condition by now.
 
2007-03-13 04:05:59 PM  
I blame Bush.

TFA: rushing to meet President Bush's promise to protect New Orleans by the start of the 2006 hurricane season

Doh. The article already did.
 
2007-03-13 05:13:19 PM  
look, houston already holds most of the trash that escaped nola. i think the army corps of engineers needs to assist hpd\harris county sheriff's deputies instead of installing defective pumps in new orleans
 
2007-03-13 05:13:45 PM  
I feel sorry for the Army Corp of Engineers. That they have to deal with the greedy asshats in New Orleans is bad enough. But no matter how good a job they do, they know they're gonna be set up as the fall guy for local asshat politicans looking for a scapegoat.
 
2007-03-13 05:23:59 PM  
It's almost like they want the city to flood
 
2007-03-13 05:26:25 PM  
It's almost like they want the city to flood

At this point, what else can you do?
 
2007-03-13 05:31:08 PM  
Why don't they just dig a big hole, cover the place with blue tile, and put foot markers aroud the sides?

Again, the best thing for the city of New Orleans to do right now would be to relocate to higher ground. The blues may sound better in a basin, but it's easier to keep your guitar dry up on the hill.
 
2007-03-13 05:33:44 PM  
I'm sure that now the 2006 season has passed they are all patting themselves on the back for having installed those pumps.
They can declare no problems and no injuries related to them.

/next they can shut down the Weather Channel so something like Katrina can never happen again!!
 
2007-03-13 05:34:26 PM  
Where is the Haha Guy?
 
2007-03-13 05:34:38 PM  
meh..whatever..good enough for government work.
 
2007-03-13 05:36:19 PM  
Boritom:"Again, the best thing for the city of New Orleans to do right now would be to relocate to higher ground"

That's what Seattle did about a hundred years ago, they filled in the lower parts of the city so the toilets would flush.

/a lot of the town is underground now
//made for a neat Night Stalker episode
 
2007-03-13 05:36:32 PM  
...and New Orleans just keeps on sinking.

/How do they fix that?
 
2007-03-13 05:38:16 PM  
Jesus Christ - f*cking move already. Get those decrepit old folks on a goddamn bus and ship them to Montana, where it's dirt cheap to live. Yeah, it's cold and the collective intelligence of the citizens is equivalent to a low-watt light bulb - but it's much better than living in a dump like New Orleans.
 
2007-03-13 05:38:35 PM  
Wow, a Bush initiative was poorly planned and executed, put people at unnecessary risk, will cost far more than expected, and will involve developing an exit strategy on a OJT basis.

Who knew?
 
2007-03-13 05:40:44 PM  
Which worked perfectly during the great global warming induced hurricane season of 2006, amirite?
 
2007-03-13 05:47:48 PM  
Weaver95: But no matter how good a job they do

They didn't do a good job. They did a crap-ass job.
 
2007-03-13 05:48:29 PM  
George Bush does not care about black people.
 
2007-03-13 05:48:48 PM  
Obviously this is because Blanco and Nagin are Demo-, er, I mean, incompetent.
 
2007-03-13 05:49:09 PM  
Reads Huey Long pump Inc....
 
2007-03-13 05:50:30 PM  
Weaver95

It may be inevitable, but the levees did fail at below their designed limits. They should have held. Government or not that sort of incompetence would be unquestionably the fault of the designers -- Regardless of the myriad of other failures all in the local, state, and federal government.
 
2007-03-13 05:51:51 PM  
The pumps' manufacturer was politically connected? To the Bush family? You mean they're taking advantage of a natural disaster and providing shoddy equipment at taxpayer expense?

I'm shocked.

/not really.
 
2007-03-13 05:52:06 PM  
We should create Mount New Orleans from landfill material.
 
2007-03-13 05:53:01 PM  
God, even Flygt's pumps aren't that crappy.

MWI is even a player in the pumping field?
 
2007-03-13 06:04:27 PM  
If you're interested in New Orleans and it's plight, you could do worse than to read Harry ("Mr Burns","Derek Smalls", etc) Shearer's occasional postings over at the Huffington Post where he covers such matters from the perspective of a part-time resident of the city.

As far as building a city 8 feet below sea level, well, how about building cities on top of the New Madrid or San Andreas Faults. Pretty dumb, huh? How about building cities in Tornado Alley? Or New York (just for being New York)?

New Orleans is where it is partly because of historical accident -- the French were concerned about the Spanish, who at the time held Florida, making incursions into Louisiana, thus, New Orleans. It also happened to be a place where canoes could be portaged from a bypass at Lake Pontchartrain, taking a hundred miles or so off a hazardous river journey (we can thank the Native Americans for that).

In more modern terms, it's also a major port city and a hub of commerce.

Yeah, it may be a dumb place for a city but there are a lot dumber ones. Venice anyone?
 
2007-03-13 06:08:15 PM  
The money keeps getting funneled into politician pork projects. Federal, State, and local. The state and local are the worst offenders. Heck, Bush pumped more money into Louisiana levee projects than he did California before Katrina.

News article. (pops)

The congressional record at www.senate.gov leaves a sick lump in your stomach.
 
2007-03-13 06:17:59 PM  
Crawfish-infested parking lot.
 
2007-03-13 06:19:06 PM  
I remember an old engineering axiom

You can have it fast
You can have it cheap
You can have it work

Pick 2 of the 3.

Sounds like the Army Corps of Engineers picked fast and cheap.
 
2007-03-13 06:23:51 PM  
The point isn't why NO is there in the first place, the question is why not move it, or at least parts of it now? I mean it is the perfect time. City gets destroyed, you have to rebuild anyhow, so do it somewhere else. This was suggested but the suggestion was shouted down as "racist". Not sure how that follows, but anyhow.

That's what people are saying is that it has been shown to be a bad idea, so let's fix it now while we've got the chance.
 
2007-03-13 06:27:54 PM  
It's great that New Orleans has a history behind it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is below sea level without an adequate infrastructure to cope with the inevitable flooding that comes with that.

When you build on a fault, your building has to meet building codes that anticipate earthquakes. When you build in a hurricane area, your building has to be able to withstand certain wind loads (that's why it's a biatch to build or insure a house in Florida). When you build in a flood plain, your house should be able to withstand flooding so the guberment doesn't have to bail your ass out every year. And assuming it won't happen again for a long time is NOT realistic.
 
2007-03-13 06:29:33 PM  
"Boritom [TotalFark]

Why don't they just dig a big hole, cover the place with blue tile, and put foot markers aroud the sides?

Again, the best thing for the city of New Orleans to do right now would be to relocate to higher ground. The blues may sound better in a basin, but it's easier to keep your guitar dry up on the hill."

The ONE thing that made it through Katrina unscathed was my guitar. It was on a bamboo chair and floated for 3 weeks inside my house. Luckily she was in a relatively water resistant case at the time.

So anyone who lives where a disaster could potentially one day occur should move eh?
 
2007-03-13 06:30:32 PM  
Boy, did the current administration sure inherit a big mess:

Chads'
OBL
911
Client State invasion plans for Afghanistan and Iraq
CIA outing
Abu Ghraib
Saddam Trial
Katrina
Corrupt Lobbyists

Have some sympathy - you know it's all the democrats fault.
 
2007-03-13 06:31:46 PM  
In any other country in the developed world, designs to rebuild the city would have been tabled and put into action. They would include some kind of remediation for the "sinking city" problem, interesting and innovative systems to keep the city from flooding in even worse disasters than hurricane Katrina, and designs for entire neighborhoods that would be better than the old ones. Hell it would already be 1/3 complete, and most evacuees would be back living in N.O. by now.

But this is the U.S., so even the emergency stop-gap measures are half assed.

It's like you folks down in the states can't wait to reach third-world backwater status. Well it's coming fast down the pipe, so just keep up your poor performance and you'll be there soon enough.

...

I'm sorry for being so harsh but geez- this isn't funny. A major city in the U.S. basically gets destroyed, and everyone is just screwing around and scratching their asses. How many other cities get to be flushed down the toilet before someone actually does something?

(And the tired old "stupid for building a city below sea level" isn't an argument. Large sections of the Netherlands are below sea level- at least one third of the country- and has been for centuries, and yet they manage to do just fine... but the U.S. can't keep one damned city from getting wet.)
 
2007-03-13 06:32:01 PM  
Infantry:

Would be very nice if that happened... hubby works for P4 and has many freinds in HCSO. They would all agree with you 100%. I am all for helping them out, but it seems it is turning into abuse. I don't think everyone that evacuated here is poor and criminal by any means, but the few bad apples kinda ruin it for everyone. Still sucks though.
 
2007-03-13 06:33:29 PM  
"Let me give you the scenario: You have four months to build something that nobody has ever built before,

Maybe they should consult with the Dutch. They've been doing this stuff for years. Most of the country is below sea level but how often do you hear of them being flooded out....
 
2007-03-13 06:37:43 PM  
MerlinX

"Let me give you the scenario: You have four months to build something that nobody has ever built before,

Maybe they should consult with the Dutch. They've been doing this stuff for years. Most of the country is below sea level but how often do you hear of them being flooded out....

Because the Dutch aren't racist bottom line fixated pricks.

 
2007-03-13 06:40:01 PM  
At this point, what else can you do?

The farking job you were paid very well to do.
 
2007-03-13 06:49:20 PM  
Looks like it worked. GOOD JERB!
 
2007-03-13 06:55:12 PM  
Surprised that the ACofE hasn't been working on some way to move the Gulf of Mexico to another location. That is more their style.
 
2007-03-13 06:59:22 PM  
oranjello

The pumps' manufacturer was politically connected? To the Bush family? You mean they're taking advantage of a natural disaster and providing shoddy equipment at taxpayer expense?

I'm shocked.

/not really.


The article makes it seem like a big conspiracy, but it's really just a coincidence. Fact is, MWI is probably the only manufacturer capable of building/testing that many pumps that fast. I ended up using MWI for all but one of my stormwater pump stations (7 in the last 5 years), and the only station to have major supply and startup issues was the one that used a competitor.

The other part of the article that's misleading is that it sounds like the problems described in the report aren't with the pumps but with the electric motors and switchgear. The whole thing just sounds like shiatty design.

FTA "We didn't have the luxury to go through a two-, three-year design and planning phase," Bedey said. "We had to get closure structures in place."

Sounds like they just slapped some stuff together from old projects. I'll bet their intakes aren't anywhere close to HI. The CORPS also has a tendency (whether designed in-house or through a private firm) to go for flashy complicated systems instead of bullet-proof simple designs. I have had to completely redesign 2 stations in the past that were part of joint corps/water management district projects. The stations were to be operated as part of the district's facilities, but they refused to take operational responsibility with the original designs.

/sorry for the long post. topic hits close to home.
 
2007-03-13 07:01:12 PM  
This is addressed to the ignorant few that have posted their ignorant ramblings. You know who you are. It is not addressed to everyone.

New Orleans is where it is because of the location of the Mississippi River. If you want to move New Orleans because it's under sea level, then make sure you move the river, too.

Believe it or not, there are parts of New Orleans that do not flood and would not have flooded during Katrina. Maps from the 1800's show where the population was located. Oddly enough, if you overlay a map from then to a map of 2005 where the flooding occurred, about 95% of the populated area would not have flooded. I guess they knew something back then. Still, those areas that flooded could have avoided flooding if the levees were built properly.

If the Army Corps of Engineers had built the levees the way they were supposed to be built, they would have held Katrina's water out. They were supposed to have been built with clay, but the ACoE built them with sand instead. Also, if they had closed the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (a man made channel linking the GOM to the river), as they had been advised to do for 30 years, then there wouldn't have been the 'back door' to the Gulf of Mexico that the MRGO leaves open.

There. Now you are all educated.
 
2007-03-13 07:11:01 PM  
FTA "We didn't have the luxury to go through a two-, three-year design and planning phase," Bedey said. "We had to get closure structures in place."

The irony is that they've had over 50 years to get it right and haven't yet.

No questions asked, The Army Corps of Engineers was at fault for the lion's share of the flooding in New Orleans. It has admitted as much after two separate scientific panels and their own convened panel concluded the same! The levees were promised to be able to withstand strong Category 3 hurricanes. Katrina was closer to Category 2 when it made landfall.

IT WAS A MAN-MADE DISASTER AND CONTINUES TO BE A MAN-MADE DISASTER TODAY.

Close MRGO.
Build Category 4 or 5 levees.
Restore the levees.

Finally, fire the farking Army Corps of Engineers. Feed them to the angry sea!
 
2007-03-13 07:35:30 PM  
Hey, we're not advocating moving the whole city. The higher elevations, aka touristy old parts of the city, are fine where they are, but please, if you're going to rebuild the dwellings that got destroyed in the lower parts of the city, why not relocate them now that the opportunity has presented itself?
 
2007-03-13 07:51:58 PM  
Bronto Saurus: As far as building a city 8 feet below sea level, well, how about building cities on top of the New Madrid or San Andreas Faults.

It's not just the stupidity of building a city - it's the stupidity of building a city in a bad place and then expecting the government to shield you from all harm.

Having lived in OC, I don't think many residents there would go "OMG, why didn't the government prevent it" if the Big One hit tomorrow.
 
2007-03-13 08:02:17 PM  
Move. Move. Move. You are below sea level. Move. Do not offer idiots insurance. Move. Move. Move. It's simple. The same advice goes for hurricane zones. Move. Move. Move. Unless you are willing to go without insurance and be an idiot. And finally no government bailouts.
 
2007-03-13 08:05:12 PM  
kyoryu

Having lived in OC, I don't think many residents there would go "OMG, why didn't the government prevent it" if the Big One hit tomorrow

There's a reason for that. There's a tangent to unemployment and welfare checks, as well, but it escapes me at the moment....

I have an aunt and a few cousins who live in the Covington/Mandeville area (across the 17-mile bridge to the northeast), a few feet above sea level--their homes are still there (and have been since they were constructed a good 30 or 40 years ago). If they're singing the blues, it's because they have the same problem with NOLA emigres/refuges as Houston does.

I wonder what the weather is like in Liberia?
 
2007-03-13 08:06:35 PM  
brassrob

This is addressed to the ignorant few that have posted their ignorant ramblings. You know who you are. It is not addressed to everyone.

New Orleans is where it is because of the location of the Mississippi River. If you want to move New Orleans because it's under sea level, then make sure you move the river, too.

Believe it or not, there are parts of New Orleans that do not flood and would not have flooded during Katrina. Maps from the 1800's show where the population was located. Oddly enough, if you overlay a map from then to a map of 2005 where the flooding occurred, about 95% of the populated area would not have flooded. I guess they knew something back then. Still, those areas that flooded could have avoided flooding if the levees were built properly.

If the Army Corps of Engineers had built the levees the way they were supposed to be built, they would have held Katrina's water out. They were supposed to have been built with clay, but the ACoE built them with sand instead. Also, if they had closed the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (a man made channel linking the GOM to the river), as they had been advised to do for 30 years, then there wouldn't have been the 'back door' to the Gulf of Mexico that the MRGO leaves open.

There. Now you are all educated.


Don't live in New Orleans and don't build levees. Just move. If you decide to live there you get no insurance and no government bail out. Now you are educated.
 
2007-03-13 08:34:50 PM  
2007-03-13 07:51:58 PM kyoryu

Having lived in OC, I don't think many residents there would go "OMG, why didn't the government prevent it" if the Big One hit tomorrow.


They'll cry in OC like the little biatches they are when they realize that all their watermains and freeway overpasses are broken, and that it's the goverment that's gonna fix it. *Always* vote "YES" on seismic retro-fit bonds, it'll pay in the long run.

/New Orleans is where it is because it's the port for the Mississippi river, and by extension more than half of the landmass of North America. That TV you just bought in a Wichita Wal*Mart? Probably shipped through NOLA.
//Pissed that the country as a whole doesn't feel the need to re-build New Orleans, and make it better than before. This was an excellent opportunity to make the place the city it should be.
 
2007-03-13 08:43:38 PM  
If the Army Corps of Engineers can't save the US's shart hole just let the damn thing flood.
 
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