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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   Woman buys $32k car "under influence of bipolar disorder"; sues dealer for selling it to her   (startribune.com) divider line 237
    More: Asinine  
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12111 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2007 at 4:28 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-13 05:42:27 PM  
me thinks about 90% of farkers here didn't even RTFA.

shame.

if the dealer said i'll take it back, if you get a doctors note, and she provides it, and the dealer still delivers the car, why is she the asshole?
 
2007-03-13 05:42:34 PM  
tweekster One of the best salesmen I ever met was a car salesmen. Awesome, HONEST guy. friend of the family helps too

maybe you just need to deal with better people instead of blaming them all.


Well, the fact he was a family friend might askew your opinion

I'm not blaming car salesman for being low lifes. That would be like blaming snakes for being belly crawlers. It's just their nature.

The way the system is set up at almost all dealerships, salesmen make money by squeezing every dime possible out of the buyer. And they ALL lie. There is NO SUCH THING as an honest car salesman. Just isn't.

\Hate the message, not the messenger.
\\Dodge seems to be the worst. Like Towbin Dodge. SCUM BAGS ALL!
 
2007-03-13 05:43:07 PM  
Anyone notice the slight difference between the stories?

One notes:

Berner's husband says the dealer agreed to take the car back if it got a doctor's letter detailing Berner's condition.

The other says:

Liblang(lawyer) said the dealer violated the Michigan Consumer Protection Act because it took advantage of Berner's disability, even after being provided documentation by her therapist.


I wonder if she couldn't get a doctors note, and had a therapist of some sort sign something instead. Therapists and doctors aren't the same thing.
 
2007-03-13 05:44:13 PM  
andresdelnorte and Marqlaw, ditto. Looking at it from a law perspective gives it a whole different tint.

/law student, too.
 
2007-03-13 05:44:51 PM  
Are women responsible for ANYTHING?

Seriously.

I should sue too!!! I went into my dealer at 4pm on a Friday afternoon, and walked out by 6pm with a brand new vehicle. Damn shiny new vehicle, bad, bad dealership. Oops, wait, I forgot, I'm a man, and I'm responsible for all the ills in this nation. (yup, a cracker, to boot, I'm responsible for your suffering too) Get in line.
 
2007-03-13 05:45:42 PM  
yep, my dad did the same exact thing.

Bought two cars, $10,000 worth in suits, and piles of computers, CD players, and assorted junk.

Took us, his family, and the docs to undo some of the damage, but with the doc's letter's help we were able to reverse the car purchases. It seems to be a pretty common thing apparently.

Still, he was lucky, rest his soul. If the dealers had said no, we'd probably have been up shiat creek. They were nice about it, but that doesn't mean dealerships are obligated to be.
 
2007-03-13 05:45:56 PM  
I'm bipolar because I'm moody. Stop labeling negative character traits as disorders and mental illness and this problem fades away.

OK, `hoss. You're so far off-base here that I doubt you've ever really been diagnosed by a competent professional. I'm done reading anything you have to say...
 
2007-03-13 05:46:51 PM  
I'm also unmedicated for both disorders.

Oh, nevermind. Explains everything. Seek help, take your meds and never, ever get off of them again. Everyone who loves you will rejoice when this has happened. Seriously, seek help and stick with it.
 
2007-03-13 05:47:52 PM  
Stay in school, kids...

/it's not the end result you've missed, but the path to it
 
2007-03-13 05:48:14 PM  
realDurandal:

The husband says the dealership said they would take it back...the dealership has not said anything...see the problem
 
2007-03-13 05:49:37 PM  
BunkyBrewman Are women responsible for ANYTHING?

Yep, for my cubby about 5 times a day! Damn hot women. Go away! Unless...
 
2007-03-13 05:49:43 PM  
I know lots of rich impulsive people that will buy a new car on a whim.

Wow, rich people spending money freely. Astounding... Have you tried to publish this account yet???

Far cry from someone who is broke, mentally ill, wholly delusional and prone to flights of fancy, intense moments of terror, paranoia, delusions of grandeur, etc... But by all means, tell us more about these people you know who spend money freely.
 
2007-03-13 05:51:26 PM  
Took us, his family, and the docs to undo some of the damage, but with the doc's letter's help we were able to reverse the car purchases. It seems to be a pretty common thing apparently.

Fark carried the story about the mentally ill guy and Huling salesmen, which happened in January. In that case they went to the guys home and looted it of cash, too.
 
2007-03-13 05:51:38 PM  

Far cry from someone who is broke,


Ok, bullshiat - if she was broke, she wouldn't be able to get credit to buy the car.
 
2007-03-13 05:51:38 PM  
NCg8r:

Do you honestly believe the average person can tell the difference?

Just because they are delusional doesnt mean they are acting any different.
 
2007-03-13 05:52:11 PM  
andresdelnorte, good luck with the rest of law school. If you've made it to the point of realizing that everything depends on context, you're already most of the way home.

/Well, except for the studying part. And finals. And then the bar.
 
2007-03-13 05:53:27 PM  
Am I the only farker on here who finds it insanely funny that law students have time to be debating law on fark?

/unless they're not lawyers....
 
2007-03-13 05:54:36 PM  

Bottom line is that we should all rush out and get diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It's like having a "get out of jail free" card in your back pocket.


And then we can all be diagnosed as blind for the cherry parking spot! Good thinking, citizen.
 
2007-03-13 05:55:42 PM  
Thanks Nakito, I graduate early this December and then get to experience the joy of 12 hour days while I article for the man, getting paid the same wage I was before I came here in the first place!

\it's been pure hell so far, but I would do it all over again
 
2007-03-13 05:58:20 PM  
Captian Iceballs: "Am I the only farker on here who finds it insanely funny that law students have time to be debating law on fark?

/unless they're not lawyers...."

Well, being a law student would necessarily mean that I am not (yet) a lawyer. Believe me, I'm sure andresdelnorte and Marqlaw would agree that we have to have something to get away from the doldrums of law school, even if it's only a couple hours a day.
 
2007-03-13 05:58:32 PM  

/bipolar, medicated, and self-responsible
//also silently bitter about many of the responses here, but that's my own problem


Good for you! Some of us here love people (yes, they are PEOPLE you black-hearted bastards) that have to deal with this disorder and know how difficult every day is for you. Keep taking your meds, and keep your head up. As far as being bitter, you're not alone there either. I can't believe some of the things I've read from people here. It's like watching "Silence of the Lambs" once gives people the authority to comment on wholesale restriction of the human rights of mentally ill Americans...
 
2007-03-13 05:58:49 PM  
Captian Iceballs Ok, bullshiat - if she was broke, she wouldn't be able to get credit to buy the car.

That's a joke right?

Like my ex B.I.L that got himself a new truck at Lynn Hickey Dodge. In spite of the fact he was unemployed, and had a credit score in the low 500's. 23.5% interest rate. Sign the papers. Out the door with a new $30k truck.
 
2007-03-13 05:58:49 PM  
NCg8r

delusions of grandeur, etc...

static.stickam.com

Cocaine is a hell of a drug!
 
2007-03-13 06:01:29 PM  
Both Andreselnorte and Marqlaw are making the legal issue here too complicated

The dealer made an offer take the car back on the condition that she get a doctor's letter detailing her condition. She's interpreting this as an offer for an oral contract which, if she's correct, she validly accepted by sending the letter. Assuming the court agrees with her that this is a binding oral contract, the dealer is in breach. That's the only issue here. It's not whether it's right to give takesies backsies or whether she should expect them because of her condition: it's whether the dealer made an offer supporting a unilateral (acceptable by performance) oral contract.
 
2007-03-13 06:01:44 PM  
"As a result of my disability, I suffer from symptoms of confusion, impulsivity and difficulty in decision making, so that I am not always reasonably able to protect my interests," wrote Berner in her affidavit filed in Oakland Circuit Court.

I'd hate to carpool with her. Which begs the question: Why the fark is she driving in the first place?
 
2007-03-13 06:04:20 PM  
NCg8r
Maybe you could apply another therapeutic technique with your wife's problems:

Beneficially
Interceding
Through
Corrective
Home
Standardization of
Life
Affairs and
Problems

. . . or biatch Slap.
 
2007-03-13 06:05:32 PM  
safeinsane I'd hate to carpool with her. Which begs the question: Why the fark is she driving in the first place?


Why is she a bad driver? Cause she's a woman!

\Veal\Tip\All week.
 
2007-03-13 06:11:49 PM  
Damn, both sides are farked up.

Mental disorders or no fun, but come on. I hate the idea of people doing stupid shiat then blaming a disorder. If you are going to waste money, waste your money on doing amazing shiat, like Tesla. He had problems, but god damn he was brilliant.
 
2007-03-13 06:12:54 PM  
NightOwl2255
That's a joke right?

No, I'm insanely serious. Obviously people who have no work, money, credit, arms, etc, are never allowed to get a marginal loan they cannot pay for. The only people who ever get a loan in our great thriving capitalist economy are people who could pay cash if they could only get in enough shape to carry their suitcases full of oil investment cash to the dealership.

Well, them and midgets, God bless 'em.

/yes, I'm joking ;)
 
2007-03-13 06:14:42 PM  
Oh, and NightOwl2255
Like my ex B.I.L that got himself a new truck at Lynn Hickey Dodge.

If I were your brother in law, I wouldn't be telling anyone that I bought from "Hickey Dodge".
 
2007-03-13 06:15:56 PM  
Captian Iceballs No, I'm insanely serious. Obviously people who have no work, money, credit, arms, etc, are never allowed to get a marginal loan they cannot pay for. The only people who ever get a loan in our great thriving capitalist economy are people who could pay cash if they could only get in enough shape to carry their suitcases full of oil investment cash to the dealership.

Well, them and midgets, God bless 'em.

/yes, I'm joking ;)


The Owl is shamed. Pay the Owl no mind. The Owl is off his meds today!
 
2007-03-13 06:16:49 PM  
actually, this could be perfectly valid.
any contract signed by anyone outside of normal mental functioning is not void.
i don't think she'll get any kind of money from the dealer, but the contract will most definitely be shot down.
 
2007-03-13 06:17:20 PM  
andresdelnorte: taking advantage of someone with a verifiable and known (emphasis on known) mental conditon, be bipolar disorder or dimensia, is an unconscionable contract and voidable in law.

My wife tried to buy an airplane while in a manic state. Took some serious tap dancing on my part but I got the deposit back and out of the contract.
 
2007-03-13 06:17:47 PM  
NightOwl2255

Now don't be shamed! It was a borderline troll as posted - I keep forgetting not to use totally dry humor here.

/farkers like it juicy
 
2007-03-13 06:19:57 PM  
hecticthe13th: "any contract signed by anyone outside of normal mental functioning is not void."

That is a wild mischaracterization.
 
2007-03-13 06:21:29 PM  
Captian Iceballs If I were your brother in law, I wouldn't be telling anyone that I bought from "Hickey Dodge".

He wasn't the only one. For a couple of years it was the #1 Dodge dealership in the country. Small little dealership in Oklahoma City. They lied, stole, and cheated their way to the top. Then it imploded.
 
2007-03-13 06:29:43 PM  
One time an Amish dude came in to have his horse reshod. I ended up selling him a new buggy, even though his was less than three generations old. His family threatened to smite me, but nothing ever became of it.
 
2007-03-13 06:32:23 PM  
As the father of a daughter with bipolar disorder, I find these comments amusing....

No, really, I do have a daughter with bipolar disorder. Except it isn't funny and anyone out there that thinks mentally disabled people should be held accountable for what they might be persuaded into buying BY A CAR SALESMAN have put their faith in the wrong person.

Everyone here has probably found themselves buying a car that they probably shouldn't have bought, but then again, YOU AREN'T CRAZY. Yet you probably still felt like you'd been manipulated, and you should have more sympathy for someone who is truly incapable of doing what you do so easily -- that is, your ability to reason.

Oh fark, why bother. The implacability of Netizens is well documented.
 
2007-03-13 06:32:57 PM  
2007-03-13 05:28:00 PM Dralenan


I'm shocked by a lot of people on here saying "people with bipolar shouldn't drive/have credit cards/shop online/have normal lives". Or the last statement "I don't buy it. If this were the case, she wouldn't be able to leave any store without going bankrupt." While manic cycles can cause difficulties in all of those areas (people undergoing mania are occasionally speeders when they drive, i.e.) they are still entitled to the same rights, even the same lives as anyone else. People with bipolar do have a responsibility to look out for themselves, knowing that they are given to reckless and irrational behavior, but it is a disease that does strange things, and even with careful planning, episodes occur, and in situations like that (the car is a good example), particularly if a contract is involved, the person is not always liable.

What right is she entitled to here? The right to not have a car salesman try to sell her a car? Problem with that is, I don't have that right. So the whole same rights argument doesn't work well.

So, I am a recovering addict. Not even going to bother listing what substances. While I chose to do the drugs, my family history and genetics definitely have an impact on my behaviours. Guess what, addicts tend to have poor impulse control as well. If I went to a car lot and bought a car even though I didn't need one somehow I doubt I would even have a suit.

I am an addict. I know this and live with it. Does this mean I have to watch out for myself?

Yes.

Does this mean that because I am aware that I have periods where I don't have the best control that I need to keep myself out of situations where it could get me into trouble?

Hells yes.

It's part of being a responsible adult (coming from an addict I'm sure this may make a few chuckle) and taking the necessary precautions appropriate to the situation. And how can a car salesman on a car lot trying to sell you a car be unexpected? That's like walking into The Nile to get a drink and not expect to be mauled by crocodiles.

The comment about people who are going through manic phases are speeders when they drive iritates me. Take away their license. Sorry, end of story. They are driving recklessly (and yes, I do advocate taking away licenses from reckless drivers that do not suffer any sort of mental illness). Guess what, people with epilepsy can't control when they are going to have seizures. Hence, they are not allowed to drive. Granted, seizures are a bit more immediately dangerous, but if you try to tell me some speeding Bi-Polar on the leading edge of a manic phase is a perfectly safe driver, then I'm going to call shenanigans.

I'm sure I'm coming across as callous, but I dislike people who sue first and take personal responsibility never.
 
2007-03-13 06:34:35 PM  
NCg8r "Everyone who loves you will rejoice when this has happened."
Yeah, until they realize that you were a hell of a lot more fun when you were manic, leaving you with no friends.
Sucks.
 
2007-03-13 06:37:33 PM  
mars22

so now we aren't even responsible for buying an entire car?


gaddamnn I hate americans


Ignorant fool.
 
2007-03-13 06:40:14 PM  
Under the doctrine of buyers' remorse, she has three days to cancel the sale for ANY reason. If she acted within those 3 days, I think she's reasonable. If not, no.
 
2007-03-13 06:43:47 PM  
The_one_with_that_guy:

What right is she entitled to here?

It's not exactly a "right," but she is entitled to protection under established contract law, whether or not you agree with it.

The comment about people who are going through manic phases are speeders when they drive iritates me. Take away their license. Sorry, end of story. They are driving recklessly (and yes, I do advocate taking away licenses from reckless drivers that do not suffer any sort of mental illness).

That's not the same as this situation. That has nothing to do with mental capacity and its effect on the ability to competently enter into a contract. That situation is based on negligence and violating traffic laws. And I agree with your solution to it.

I'm sure I'm coming across as callous, but I dislike people who sue first and take personal responsibility never.

Ditto, but I'm not sure that's the case here.
 
2007-03-13 06:45:43 PM  
the submission seems pretty slanted against "bi-polar" ppl from the start. Didn't care to read the article. I knew the comments would be reactionary from one side or the other so I read it for prurient delight.

that said, crazy women have it easy. Open your legs and get a man, crazy men though apparently just need a mass grave.
 
2007-03-13 06:50:07 PM  
Hmm... the worst part about the headline is I was initially thinking "why should a frigid lesbian get off"?
 
2007-03-13 07:20:25 PM  
As a Bipolar person I can totally sysmpathize with this woman. I've been in situtations all too often where I have to apologize or take back something that I did while on a manic run. Although some people understand, many don't.

People have a hard time with understanding and forgiving my manic actions. In fact, they are more likely to sympathize with a drug addict, who made a rational choice to use drugs. People look at me at times, when I choose to share my problem, as if that I am lier or that I'm just irresponsible. I'm neither. I just have a disorder that makes it more difficult for me to make the right descions sometimes.

I have managed to stay married for over 12 years, serve my country proudly in two war zones, finish school and maintain an impeccable work ethic. But, the fact people cannot physically see my disorder they assume that I'm using my disorder as a crutch.
 
2007-03-13 07:40:02 PM  
Nrokreffefp
She didn't steal from him. Stealing requires some intention. If she'd gone up to him with the intention of entering an invalid contract to waste his time, that's vaguely sorta-kinda stealing*. She went to a different part of the auto shop, and he talked her into buying a car when it was obvious she didn't need one. Which of them was wasting the time?

*But not nearly as close to stealing as his trying to trick a vulnerable person into buying something they don't need.

Now, I'm not calling him a thief, but he's closer to a thief than she is...
 
2007-03-13 07:47:34 PM  
What a stupid biatch. Take away her farking licence away if she's too stupid to make basic decisions.
 
2007-03-13 07:59:50 PM  
tbell83: If that's the case, she should be forced to wear some sort of identifying item, or have something printed on her license.

...which she should not have in the first place if she has problems making decisions and is as screwed up as she claims to be.
 
2007-03-13 08:00:08 PM  
Pick up a book people. Get your heads out of your asses.

For the record, bipolar isn't drugs or some kind of whiney condition. It's a tendency to slam emotions to one side or the other.

Car buying is a slimey business that takes advantage of people. Apparently a number of asshats here have gotten bitten by a crappy deal. Tough shiat, you knew what you were doing.

Her obligation should be forgiven. In the same way, alzheimer grandma's second car purchase should be forgiven. In the same way, the kid with excellent credit but a 60 IQ didn't *really* just purchase two new cars.
 
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