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		One in four returning Iraq vets are totally mental (reuters.com)		305
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Mayor Of R'lyeh		2007-03-13 10:27:56 AM

Why do liberals insist on trying to make everything into the 60's? They told this exact same lie about Vietnam vets too. Pretty soon they'll start spitting on the troops again, I guess.

SherKhan		2007-03-13 10:28:24 AM

Minds have been shattered by war as long as there has been war. There are no good old days when they weren't.

shipofthesun		2007-03-13 10:29:12 AM

HAMMERTOE: Back in WWII, you didn't hear about all this mental weakness.

Becasue it was shameful. It was there, just swept under the rug. and those guys who just dropped everything and went, selflessly? It was a draft. I wonder ho many did because they had to. Also, the press were lapdogs compared to today.Let's not forget having been through the depression, an experience that will mentally toughen anyone, and also, there were many more sanitariums, for those who didn't quite measure up, mentally. So other than those points, you're right on. In other words, completely comparing apples to oranges.

Catchatorie		2007-03-13 10:31:31 AM

Kazuya
WAR IS NORMAL AND HEALTHY

Yup, Americans just haven't had proper training.
www.popmatters.com

/such an awesome farking movie.

shipofthesun		2007-03-13 10:32:21 AM

Mayor Of R'lyeh: Pretty soon they'll start spitting on the troops again, I guess.

Speaking of lies. Propaganda from Nixon's Whitehouse staff, magnified by myth.

Defleshed		2007-03-13 10:34:28 AM

Back in WWII, you didn't hear about all this mental weakness. Because liberalism hadn't yet become as pervasive in society as it is today, the soldiers weren't sheltered little snowflakes with an over-inflated sense of entitlement. They saw the necessity of their service, as did the rest of society. They did their duty, lost friends and comrades in a war that was more up close and personal than any today, finished the job, came home, and went back to their lives, all without complaint. They didn't seek out forums for validation of their inability to deal with reality; they put it in perspective and got over it. That was what was expected of an adult, back then.

Yeah, I know my grandpa coped really well with his time in the Battle for Okinawa. He only woke up screaming here and there for the next 50 years. But hey, he never biatched out and went to a shrink.

He was a happy dude.

Sloth_DC		2007-03-13 10:34:31 AM

shipofthesun: HAMMERTOE: Back in WWII, you didn't hear about all this mental weakness.

Becasue it was shameful. It was there, just swept under the rug.

More to the point, guys just dealt with shiat.

and those guys who just dropped everything and went, selflessly? It was a draft.

With draft riots, no less.

Also, the press were lapdogs compared to today.

lol - ever read any newspapers from the time? Bush is getting a cakewalk compared to the reaming FDR got in the papers. Back then, the papers didn't just insinuate that the war might be a mistake, they flat out called FDR an unamerican commie bastard who was dragging us into a fight we had no part in. The tone in the papers didn't change until after Pearl Harbor, and then only because the owners were afraid they would lose readers if they didn't.

justaguy516		2007-03-13 10:35:29 AM

HotWingConspiracy
"Karma isn't a "concept," it's a religious belief that, in my opinion, is childish. If whole "point system" hasn't proven itself false to you by the time you're seven, you have a disability."

I don't believe in karma either, but I think believers have a much longer time scale in mind than seven years.

I am a Hindu, so I am getting a kick out of these replies....

/Really
//Don't believe in karma either
///A way to prop up the horrible caste system
////Only believe in the indivisibility of all things

thefajita		2007-03-13 10:36:41 AM

SherKhan		2007-03-13 10:38:15 AM

HAMMERTOE

The Best Years of Our Lives would like to spend an evening disillusioning you.

An_Innocent_Primate		2007-03-13 10:40:22 AM

shipofthesun

In other words, completely comparing apples to oranges.

Didn't you get the memo? This is exactly the same situation as WWII! If we didn't send our boys over there, we'd all be speaking Arabic in a year!

Even those who support this war can't even show the balls that they claim to have. They cry WWII every chance they get, and then say that they'd sign up if it weren't for that damn back injury. But back then people hid injuries or ailments and faked their age so that they could fight for their country in a just cause. People committed suicide because they failed the entry physicals. Where are the people doing all that today?

It's not happening now because people know in their hearts that it is an unnecessary war. Even if they have deluded themselves to think that it's the right thing to do, they don't really believe it.

stiletto_the_wise		2007-03-13 10:41:16 AM

HAMMERTOE: Back in WWII, you didn't hear about all this mental weakness. Because liberalism hadn't yet become as pervasive in society as it is today, the soldiers weren't sheltered little snowflakes with an over-inflated sense of entitlement. They saw the necessity of their service, as did the rest of society. They did their duty, lost friends and comrades in a war that was more up close and personal than any today, finished the job, came home, and went back to their lives, all without complaint. They didn't seek out forums for validation of their inability to deal with reality; they put it in perspective and got over it. That was what was expected of an adult, back then.

I never saw battle, but have seen a fair amount of death, dismemberment and destruction in my time as a volunteer firefighter. Still don't need no stinking shrink to encourage me to be weaker.

This is true, but it has nothing to do with "liberalism". This has more to do with pussification, which crosses political boundaries and is happening everywhere in the USA, not just the dens of "libs". You're lashing out at the wrong movement.

tweekster		2007-03-13 10:41:42 AM

Lerxst2k:

you are correct, the average soldier never even sees combat.

shipofthesun		2007-03-13 10:42:55 AM

Sloth_DC: The tone in the papers didn't change until after Pearl Harbor, and then only because the owners were afraid they would lose readers if they didn't.

Sure, but when exactly did the American public find out he was crippled? Or how many troop movements did Ernie Pyle report on? They may have questioned policy, but they never questioned America. Independents and Op-ed pieces aside. The country was more step in line than today, no? Not assigning a value, just stating an opinion. It was a very different time, politics being much more...black and white. There were grays to be sure, but it was fairly clearcut. Now, not so much. Religion is a trickier subject in peoples minds than a political philosophy.

Clever Neologism		2007-03-13 10:44:14 AM

HAMMERTOE

Back in WWII, you didn't hear about all this mental weakness. Because liberalism hadn't yet become as pervasive in society as it is today, the soldiers weren't sheltered little snowflakes with an over-inflated sense of entitlement.

You're sadly under-informed then.

From wikipedia:

There have been numerous reports of military veterans suffering from PTSD-like symptoms for well over 100 years. For example, veterans of the US Civil War who suffered emotional problems were diagnosed as being afflicted with "soldier's heart" or "Da Costa's Syndrome" which shares many symptoms like PTSD. Shell shock was a term used to describe the condition of veterans of World War I who seemed emotionally disturbed in a similar fashion. In World War II, these symptoms were classified as "battle fatigue" or "combat fatigue". Other terms used to describe military-related mood disturbances include "nostalgia", "not yet diagnosed nervous", "irritable heart", "effort syndrome", "war neurosis", and "operational exhaustion".

"Battle fatigue" sounds much nicer and not so serious as "shell shock" or PTSD, doesn't it? Perception is not always reality.

shipofthesun		2007-03-13 10:44:18 AM

shipofthesun: Sure, but when exactly did the American public find out he was crippled?

Roosevelt, of course.

vandelay		2007-03-13 10:44:34 AM

As a country, we could deal with war much more effectively if we actually saw what was going on. I mean the blood and guts, dead soldiers, maimed children, etc... I don't WANT to see these things, I just think we would have a more realistic perspective if we weren't shielded from reality. Our gov't is a big douchebag for hiding this truth, and the media is a big pusssy for not forcing the truth out into the open.

Sister Esther		2007-03-13 10:46:39 AM

George 5:21 Thou shalt seek out thy magic marker and write thy duties on thine hat.

Bizarro		2007-03-13 10:50:35 AM

San Francisco is my birthplace, my hometown, where I grew up and where I call home. It is full of all sorts of people, liberal as well as conservative. To make sweeping judgments like that would be like saying all conservatives are like Ann Coulter or all liberals are like Michael Moore. You guys have to see beyond what's in front of your nose to get an accurate picture.

allanhowls		2007-03-13 10:50:42 AM

Mayor Of R'lyeh: Pretty soon they'll start spitting on the troops again, I guess.

Speaking of lies...
Never happened, except by Republicans at the '68 Convention, spitting on protesting Veterans. Just like now, except they do it via the VA.

shipofthesun		2007-03-13 10:50:57 AM

vandelay: Our gov't is a big douchebag for hiding this truth, and the media is a big pusssy for not forcing the truth out into the open.

We tried that once before, and it didn't work out so well.

i129.photobucket.com

peepee mcpoop		2007-03-13 10:51:26 AM

i am just glad that america is safer now.

Manfred Richthofen		2007-03-13 10:51:57 AM

I see this is the moron-bait thread of the morning.

Sister Esther		2007-03-13 10:55:10 AM

That's "moran" bait, buddy.

Mayor Of R'lyeh		2007-03-13 10:59:08 AM

shipofthesun

Read and be educated. It not only happened it was fairly widespread.
Like a lot of things liberals do they need to lie and say that it never happened.

Manfred Richthofen		2007-03-13 11:00:48 AM

Sister Esther

Oops, my bad, man. "Moran," I meant.

Nothing embarassing like misspeling while accusing others of being morans.

ROWAN13		2007-03-13 11:03:06 AM

I realize this is Fark and all, but some of you are totally clueless. Or completely heartless... take your pick.

PTSD is no laughing matter for the vets and their families. In many cases, it never goes away, and these guys spend the rest of their lives completely farked up. Alcohol, drugs, meds... any kind of personal (and some not-so-personal) abuse comes with it, too. Suicide rates are also rather high for these guys.

I'm glad to see the VA is recognizing this, and trying to get the boys some help. They need our support, compassion, and understanding.

/former CAN Army wife... Yugo (Medak Pocket) did it to my ex.
//yeah, PTSD has much to do with the 'former' part

Bizarro		2007-03-13 11:04:09 AM

Whoa whoa whoa, I thought we were talking about mental illness in veterans returning from war..? When did this become a liberal/conservative argument?

I would be willing to bet, yes, BET...that mental illness strikes both liberals AND conservatives the same way heart disease and cancer does. It knows no party lines, it has no honor to any one ideology.

TheCenturion		2007-03-13 11:06:29 AM

I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protest themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse.

I'll give you an example of that. There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap.

In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago.

Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue.

Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car.

Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder.

I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha.

--George Carlin

Sister Esther		2007-03-13 11:06:49 AM

Yes, opinions are mighty.

Sloth_DC		2007-03-13 11:08:04 AM

Bizarro: Whoa whoa whoa, I thought we were talking about mental illness in veterans returning from war..? When did this become a liberal/conservative argument?

Apparently, when you hold your best friend's guts in your lap, your political affiliation determines whether you withdraw into yourself or just smile and have another cup of joe.

heap		2007-03-13 11:08:59 AM

Sloth_DC: Apparently, when you hold your best friend's guts in your lap, your political affiliation determines whether you withdraw into yourself or just smile and have another cup of joe.

i'm still blaming san francisco.

it isn't so much about the politics....it's those damn fags' fault.

degreeless		2007-03-13 11:11:52 AM

I would expect an investigator from San Francisthco to be totally objective!

Sloth_DC		2007-03-13 11:14:47 AM

heap: it isn't so much about the politics....it's those damn fags' fault.

Do you know what the gays are doing to the soil?

DarthPapercut		2007-03-13 11:16:36 AM

The facts are...
- About half the troops that went over had below average intelligence.
- Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older - about one in four adults - suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.

heap		2007-03-13 11:21:24 AM

Sloth_DC: Do you know what the gays are doing to the soil?

giving it a mental health diagnosis.

last thing you'd expect, but that's how those wily deviants operate.

mm8b		2007-03-13 11:21:49 AM

I have anxiety and depression. What do I do?: I smoke alot of hash/pot.

Where Are they?

Hashish central.

Stop yer biatchin' and toke up.

(and you know.. I don't have links to bakc this up but I remember hearing something like, 25-40 percent of North Americans have some sort of mental disorder... so why is it such a big deal? The post-traumatic stress disorder would be something better to focus on.. not depression and anxiety.)

/...what do you mean there's no farking coffee left...
//WHAT DO YOU MEAN I have to stay at work late...
///I'm cranky.

Sloth_DC		2007-03-13 11:25:05 AM

DarthPapercut: - About half the troops that went over had below average intelligence.

And 40% of their sick days were on Mondays and Fridays?

Sloth_DC		2007-03-13 11:26:18 AM

heap: giving it a mental health diagnosis.

last thing you'd expect, but that's how those wily deviants operate.

Those swishy bastards. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to ruin the sacred ritual of getting plastered in Vegas and marrying some other drunk barfly at the drive-through Elvis chapel.

GodsTumor		2007-03-13 11:27:54 AM

Our nations " Nurse Ratched!"

Sister Esther		2007-03-13 11:29:34 AM

Sometimes mental illness is a symptom of intelligence.

/though sometimes definitely not!

DarthPapercut		2007-03-13 11:35:06 AM

Sloth_DC: - I was wondering if someone would catch that! :)

enemigo_de_pepe		2007-03-13 11:36:59 AM

Since 4 of 4 had to be mental to volunteer to get shot at, I'd say it fixed 75% of them.

Sloth_DC		2007-03-13 11:38:44 AM

GodsTumor: Our nations " Nurse Ratched!"

I thought our nation's Nurse Ratched was, umm, Nurse Ratched. Salem, Oregon is in this nation, right?

xdedd		2007-03-13 11:39:13 AM

Independent_George		2007-03-13 11:42:39 AM

My friend came back from Iraq, and he was farkin retarded....

to be fair, he was retarded when he left.

SharkUW		2007-03-13 11:43:52 AM

IAmRight

It's not faulty unill you show the percentage the do/don't use the VA medical care. You'll find it higher than you think.

carmody		2007-03-13 11:44:18 AM

Yeah, but it was all worth it to get bin Laden.

Brave Sir Robin		2007-03-13 11:46:42 AM

In previous centuries, the campaigns were long, but the battles lasted a day, and you either won or lost. For the victors, they returned home to parades and celebrations, the reward for victory was glory and honor.

Now -- again -- we're in a war without real victory or defeat, and the soldiers come home quietly. We don't even properly care for our wounded once they're here. It's really no wonder they drag it back home with them.

GodsTumor		2007-03-13 11:48:33 AM

Sloth_DC

I thought our nation's Nurse Ratched was, umm, Nurse Ratched. Salem, Oregon is in this nation, right?

You must look at the grand scale grasshopper!
Oregon is on the "Left Coast," so it doesn't count to conservatives...

/also W is our nations Major Franklin "Frank" Marion Burns aka "Ferret Face"

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